Posted on 01/17/2012 4:31:51 PM PST by MissouriConservative
The Missouri Supreme Court has thrown out the results of a blood test on an unwilling suspect in a routine drunken-driving stop, ruling the officer should have obtained a judge’s warrant for the test.
(Excerpt) Read more at kansascity.com ...
Yeah, I remember that too. He wasn’t even leaving the Costco, he was stil shopping. And witness said he was complying, also, but that they shot him anyway. I remember a case of that when I was younger, maybe 17-18. 30 some odd witnesses said the man they were engaging was calm and obeying their orders. If I remember right, the gun was already on the ground, and they shot him anyway. They (the police) said he was reaching again for the weapon, and they shot him dozens of times. Witnesses said no such thing happened.
I also remember when I was 18 (this one I know for sure), a man sued the police because he suffered second degree burns. It was summer (about 115 degrees), and the man was walking down a rich neighborhood and was also black. The police driving by asked him what he was doing, to which he responded “Walking” or something like that. They wanted ID, etc. And he refused to answer their questions about why he was in the neighborhood. They then said they were going to take him in to question him, and he told them off. So they handcuffed him, and threw him on the front of the car, with black paint (probably close to 200 degrees in a LV summer), he was badly burned. I don’t know what ultimately happened with the case, but it was just another day for the LVMPD. Sick.
Why dont they just have groups of cops drive around and randomly stop people and draw blood and analyze it real time, on the stop. You could test hundreds of people everyday.
“Sir, just put your arm out the window, this will only take a minute.”
Rather than have checkpoints for quick chats. Just draw every-bodies blood. Somebody could invent a blood pressure checking type cuff that would do the prick, analyze the blood and display a red or green light within seconds.
Maybe I should go for a patent on this.
Yep. I remember in a criminal justice course (taught by a former LVMPD officer), how the professor cackled with glee when he would tell us how much power he had over us. He would say things like, “And we can search your car anytime.” To which people responded, “That’s against the 4th amendment.” So he would say:
“So you say. So, all I do is say I smell something funny, and have to take you in for questioning. In the meantime I impound your vehicle, since you can’t leave it on the street. Well, my buddies at the impound yard have to make sure it’s safe, and that there’s nothing dangerous inside. So say they strip down the panels, and cut out the seat covers, etc. Oh, one way or another I get what I want. We don’t have to put the car back together, but we can take it apart all we want, just to be sure. ::wink:: ::wink:: You try and make it hard to get what I want, and I’ll make sure you regret it (something to that effect.”
There was lots more that he would say than that, but I never, ever forgot some of the things I learned in that class. #1. Never trust a cop. I am all for county sheriff’s and their deputies, who we get to vote in and out. But never, ever, EVER, unionized municipal, unaccountable thugs. Never.
Yep. I remember in a criminal justice course (taught by a former LVMPD officer), how the professor cackled with glee when he would tell us how much power he had over us. He would say things like, “And we can search your car anytime.” To which people responded, “That’s against the 4th amendment.” So he would say:
“So you say. So, all I do is say I smell something funny, and have to take you in for questioning. In the meantime I impound your vehicle, since you can’t leave it on the street. Well, my buddies at the impound yard have to make sure it’s safe, and that there’s nothing dangerous inside. So say they strip down the panels, and cut out the seat covers, etc. Oh, one way or another I get what I want. We don’t have to put the car back together, but we can take it apart all we want, just to be sure. ::wink:: ::wink:: You try and make it hard to get what I want, and I’ll make sure you regret it (something to that effect.”
There was lots more that he would say than that, but I never, ever forgot some of the things I learned in that class. #1. Never trust a cop. I am all for county sheriff’s and their deputies, who we get to vote in and out. But never, ever, EVER, unionized municipal, unaccountable thugs. Never.
Very good.
And the part about being smarter than the cop was not a necessary piece of information. That was just assumed.
Sure! And while you’re at it, you can also invent a machine that radiates us to scan if we have weapons on the street. Oh wait, NYPD is on that (Read it in a post earlier today.
George Orwell couldn’t think this stuff up.
Haha, you’re right. Touche’.
This how the cops in a certain county, in Arizona make a little extra pocket change (a lot of change). And the unintended consequences of DUI laws.
This is the long version, no exact locations or names are revealed. You might want to quickly make note of my user-name and make a copy of this, because it might get pulled.
I was living in Las Vegas. My beloved aunt and uncle live in Phoenix, Arizona. My aunt Mary has terminal cancer, so I decided to basically drive down one Saturday morning and say goodbye. So many wonderful memories because of her.
Well, after a nice lunch, and an unstated, but emotional farewell, I headed back North. It was around 4 in the afternoon when I hit an Arizona county southern border. At the time, of course, I was not aware of the significance of this, that I would figure out later.
I was, admittedly going a little fast, maybe 5 miles over the speed limit. Not really probable cause for stopping me. And then it happened, and it happens to all of us at some point in our lives, seeing the flashing police car lights in the rear view mirror. I pulled over, and was a bit nervous. They didn’t radar gun me. So they were just pulling me over out of boredom, I assumed. Or just to flex some muscle. There is these 2 young cops with guns, out here on this lonely stretch of dessert highway. I gave them my license, registration and proof of insurance. They told me to step out of the car, which I thought was kind of odd. One of them told me he was going to write me a warning, and began doing so. The other one stood about 10 feet away staring at me. The officer writing the warning asked me how I pronounced my name. I answered him.
Then, which in hind-site I figured out was, I believe, a carefully choreographed set of procedures began to unfold.
They asked me what I did for a living, and then who I worked for. I told him I was a computer programmer, and I work for a number of companies.
Officer Smith (not his real name), the one staring at me, suddenly said “Sir, how much have you had to drink today?” I looked up at him, and without missing a beat said “Nothing, why?” At this point the cop that is writing me the warning looked at officer Smith with a look of resignation, like it was time to do the whole drill again.
So officer Smith pulls out his little breathalyzer thing and I blow a flat out zero (don’t believe me, I will fax you the police report). At that point I ask, “Well, can I go now?” No, Smith says, we are going to do some tests. He asks me to open my mouth, into which he shines a flashlight. And I am not going to go though the various DUI gymnastics of standing on one foot and counting and so forth. I actually thought I did pretty good, considering the past broken legs and my uncoordinated nature.
Well, when they put the cuffs on me, I was really surprised. At that point Officer Smith said “We need to do this to protect you and the other drivers on the road.” I said “You cant be serious, I am completely sober” I remember saying this about a dozen times, as they put me into the squad car and drove off. They said nothing to me for the next 45 minutes or so, it was a long drive to the jail. And I would later find out, this was by design.
Well, after my 24 hours in jail, trying not to touch or eat anything, I am arraigned and given some papers indicating where my car had been towed. Of course it is like 6 miles away, which I walk.
I walk into the impound lot, hand the girl my papers. She types some numbers into her computer, looks up at me, and says, quite matter of factly “That will be $600” At which I say, again, without missing a beat “You have got to be kidding.” You see the towing rates for DUI in Arizona are like $7 per mile. It is seen as part of the punishment. It is another fine. I hand her my credit card, I just want to get the heck out of here.
I follow the owner of the impound lot out to unlock the gate, and as he hands me my keys, he says to me “What do you think of my brother in-law/good friend/good buddy, Officer Smith?” I don’t exactly remember what superlative he used in describing Officer Smith, I just remember it was a non-casual term of endearment. And then it immediately dawns on me. The police have just kidnapped me, held me against my will, stole my car, and then mugged me for $600! Ironically, the guy that opened the gate seemed a bit intoxicated himself.
I don’t reply. I get into my car, and drive away, very carefully, back to Las Vegas.
Analysis:
This is what really happened.
1) The police hang out at the southern border of their jurisdiction in this county in Arizona, which will incur the highest possible towing fee, charged by the mile. 2) They wait for cars with single occupancy and out-of-state plates. 3) They stop cars and give some sort of lame excuse for stopping you like going a little fast, or following to close behind, really any number of things. 4) They need to profile you, to assess whether you are a good mark. They ask you to step out of the car, ask you about your career. They write a “warning” ticket to have time to decide whether you are a good extortion target. 5) If your car is to nice, or you say your a lawyer or retired cop they let you go. 6) If your a working stiff, like me, that has a car with missing hubcaps and some scrapes, and are a single white male from out of state, then you become a perfect candidate. 7) If your car is worth less than $600, in their judgement, they would probably let you go, because it isn’t worth towing if you might refuse to pay a towing fee that is more than the cars worth. 8) It doesn’t matter how you do on the DUI gymnastics tests, you didn’t do them perfectly, so you are automatically considered impaired, in their judgement. 9) They call their buddies at the towing company, and inform them that they have another score for the day.
The calculation before all this happened goes like this:
Mother Against Drunk Drivers lobbies state politicians to raise the towing rates for DUI. It is part of the punishment, and is non-refundable, whether you are found guilty or not. It is a fine of suspicion. On the other hand, towing companies also lobby for per mile towing fees in states with wide expanses, like Arizona, because of fuel costs and wear-and-tear. The combination of these 2 can get towing fees into the $6 to $10 a mile range in the western states. This has the unintended consequence of creating a very lucrative extortion ring. The cops and the towing companies work with each other, every day. They eventually figure out that they are only making $40,000 or so, and that it would be very easy for the cops to be a little more strict over time, they could both benefit each other greatly. All they need is to have the cops tow more cars more frequently. In fact, there is so much money to be made, it almost becomes inevitable for this to happen. Double your income by being a strict cop. Protecting your community. The newspapers will print “Officer Smith made and outstanding 450 DUI arrests last year.” And officer Smith is lauded and celebrated, not only by the government, but at his church and the local VFW. Officer Smiths wife and kids are also happy with the brand new in-ground pool at there new $350,000 house he bought recently. Nobody seems to question were he got the money for this. He’s a cop, you know. Maybe he inherited some money from Grandpa or his wife is very proficient on Ebay. Officer Smith is “The Man”.
The calculation of the victim, after the fact, one month later:
This whole charade revolves around the fact that the cops, that do this, do not ever want to see you again. They don’t want you to show up in court. They already have your $400 to $600. And the whole thing works out to make this happen. They don’t take you drivers license. So you are all set in that respect. You check your local states DMV, and you notice that your drivers license hasn’t, and probably will not be affected by this. There is absolutely no reason to show up and fight this. After you think about it for a while, and 2 months after the incident, you come to the conclusion that:
1) Why would I pay an attorney another $1500. 2) Risk being found guilty (he said vs he said) in front of a local jury, basically calling the local beloved cop a liar, and incurring another $1500 fine and jail time. 3) Am I really going to get up at 3 AM in Las Vegas, to appear in court at 8:30 AM on a Monday morning, to be subjected to points 1 and 2? Maybe spend a further $100 on a hotel room Sunday night, and wreck my weekend, for something I didn’t do? Better yet if you live in Maine or Alaska. 4) You still have your license, and after 2 months, you have checked with your states DMV, and Arizona has not put you into the “Driver License Compact” (suspended license in all 50 states), and probably never will. So your not trying to get your drivers license back. 5) Why would you go back to a place where you know the cops are more than willing to throw you in jail and steal your money for no reason at all. What would happen if you won your little DUI case. After leaving the courthouse, would they follow you? Would they be pissed off you fought them, and potentially jeopardised or exposed their very lucrative extortion ring? Is there not a zillion places in the desert where they could bury your body? They are the cops, dont-cha-know.
Really, at this point, you just tuck it away as either a big mistake, or a con that it is, and that you cant do anything about, unless your a “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington” type, and I am sure if the cops thought that you might be, when they were profiling you in the first place, they would not have arrested you.
So if your driving between Phoenix and Las Vegas and your a single guy, with out-of-state plates (and your at the very edge of the county), it may be your turn at reverse highway robbery. Because all they have to do is pull this off once a day, and twice on weekends, and it is nearly a quarter of a million dollars worth of extra income for these folks.
Thankfully, you are not the only one. MADD’s founder left the organization because it became too neoprohibitionist.
The best way to end DUI check points is for folks to quit driving after drinking....I have no sympathy for those who get caught
Someday, those corrupt pri*ks will pull over a gang banger / Mexican drug dealer and those criminals with a badge will each get two in the hat. Karma can be a bitch.
I am thinking of getting a gun because I am afraid of the cops. Seriously.
Count me as another individual against MADD. They’ve gone way too far.
‘The best way to end DUI check points is for folks to quit driving after drinking....I have no sympathy for those who get caught’
Who are you kidding? What a joke.
Wow, that is an incredible story, and I’m going to remember it and consider the implications for a long time to come.
It reminds me of the two judges in PA that were found to have been sending kids to youth homes for money. I’m not sure if you had read that here on FR (there were many articles a year or two ago). Basically if the kid was out after curfew or something minor like that, the judges would sentences them to live in a group home for a few weeks/months. Then the group home people would say that Johnny had behaviour problems, etc. So they’d keep them there for another year, etc. All the while it was costing the parents something like a court ordered 30k or something like that.
It turned out, that they had sent hundreds of kids there for like an average of 18 months a piece. And then the group homes were paying the judges MILLIONS of dollars. Our system is so corrupt I cannot even dream up some of the rackets like this. I know in the state I live currently (Utah), that the legislature has capped the amount you have to pay on each level of crime. So, the courts started adding an 85% (Processing, or some such nonsense), surcharge onto all fines and fees. They have to make their cut, you see.
It’s as corrupt as corruption can be system. I now know how the Founding Fathers felt. They just wanted to be left alone. My apologies to anyone if they feel like we took the thread off toptic, but I would never have learned of your story otherwise. Thank you very much.
I read an article right here on FR about two months ago about some law that made being a PASSENGER in a vehicle while drunk a crime. I remember because they were saying something about taxi’s and limo companies being effected. Does anyone remember that?
I am not kidding any one. If you want to avoid a DUI then do not drink and drive
I think one kid even killed himself after having his life ruined this way.
I have no sympathy for those who drive drunk. What I have no tolerance for is a police state that thinks it can set up checkpoints and ask me questions such as “Where have you been tonight?” and “Where are you going?” It’s none of their damn business where I was at or where I was going to go.
To run people through a checkpoint is facist at best. Unless they have probable cause to pull me over, they have no business stopping me for anything. If I’m not weaving, speeding, or driving reckless...they should not be able to force me to go through a checkpoint.
If you think that they do, I pity you as an enabler of the police state we are headed to becoming. As well as you don’t belong on a Conservative forum.
That happened to me. Except they never said “sorry”. They charged me with something else.
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