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It is time for Sen. Rick Santorum to drop out
Red State ^ | 1-22-2012 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 01/25/2012 5:10:13 PM PST by TitansAFC

Sen. Rick Santorum has no viable path to victory and brings no new issues or ideas to the table. He no longer serves a purpose, or has a justification to remain in the race.

Santorum has no viable claim that he is more conservative or more electable than Gingrich. He has no viable claim that he will be better in raising money, in organization, or would do a better job as president. There is simply no path for him. Further — despite winning Iowa, Santorum lost badly in NH and SC, and has no means to complete in FL. It is time for him to leave.

The Santorum campaign probably thought, prior to SC, that it had a chance to win values voters. SC results show that those voters went to Gingrich over Santorum, despite an all-out values attack against Gingrich. SC should have put an end to that thinking. There simply is no path for Santorum.

It is time for him to drop out. Hopefully to support Gingrich. It is best for Santorum to quit while he is in a respectable position. Now is that time.


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012gopprimary; familyvalues; fl2012; florida; gingrich; newt; newtgingrich; romney; santorum; santorum2012; values
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To: nuconvert

The kook Ron Paul needs to drop out

***************

Agreed but I don’t think Paulbots will get behind Newt after the debates. Best hope is that they just smoke a bunch of dope and stay home on primary day. As long as Paul’s in the race, those votes ain’t going to the Mittiot. Paul’s got no chance.


101 posted on 01/25/2012 7:42:21 PM PST by Longdriver
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To: Windflier

People don’t even seem to be able to agree these days, one whether or not Newt “resigned in disgrace”.. or, voluntarily stepped down because of poor Party performance...

I lived through that time.. and, was paying attention...

I recall it as the former.

Newt was cheating on his wife AT THE SAME TIME he was leading the charge against Clinton for the Lewinsky scandal. Ok.. I “GET” the difference... the Clinton scandal was NOT about sex... but, the public at large definitely did NOT “GET” the difference... Newt HAD to step down.... No way he would have be re-elected as Speaker.


102 posted on 01/25/2012 7:47:35 PM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: Figment
Helping Romney would infect Santorum’s career with Syphilis, and rot it off, a fact of which Santorum is very cognizant.

The bedrock of Santorum’s appeal is ending abortion, and endorsing a candidate who has run fund raisers for planned parenthood and who signed into law the prototype for Obamacare would permanently tarnish his credentials in his primary sphere of influence.

He might not endorse anyone if he drops out, but Romney isn't on the menu.

103 posted on 01/25/2012 7:48:49 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Figment
Helping Romney would infect Santorum’s career with Syphilis, and rot it off, a fact of which Santorum is very cognizant.

The bedrock of Santorum’s appeal is ending abortion, and endorsing a candidate who has run fund raisers for planned parenthood and who signed into law the prototype for Obamacare would permanently tarnish his credentials in his primary sphere of influence.

He might not endorse anyone if he drops out, but Romney isn't on the menu.

104 posted on 01/25/2012 7:49:04 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
it confirmed my memory of Newt's record in office... Some of the statements Newt made are IN the Congressional Record. Going to be hard for him to walk away from

Hmm....statements. What about bills that he authored, sponsored, or pushed through? You counting those too, or are you only interested in wayward statements that put him in a bad light?

I really don't think you want to start comparing Gingrich's congressional voting record to Santorum's. Rick will lose that battle, just as surely as he's losing the presidential race.

105 posted on 01/25/2012 7:55:05 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: ought-six
If Mitt sinks like a stone, they don't get a brokered convention.
unlike the democrats, the Rockefeller Republicans do not have super delegates to overrule the voters with.
106 posted on 01/25/2012 7:58:09 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Windflier
I really don't think you want to start comparing Gingrich's congressional voting record to Santorum's. Rick will lose that battle, just as surely as he's losing the presidential race.

Perhaps... but, where does that leave me? Mitt is awful. Newt is extreme and unstable... Paul is a non-starter.

There AIN'T many good options left...

107 posted on 01/25/2012 8:05:49 PM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

That said... I’d take ANY of these guys over McLame... so, I suppose things are “looking up!” :-)


108 posted on 01/25/2012 8:06:59 PM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
Newt was cheating on his wife AT THE SAME TIME he was leading the charge against Clinton for the Lewinsky scandal.

No one around here has made the claim that Newt's personal life has been as pure as the driven snow. All of us who support him have had to confront the fact that he made mistakes in his personal life, and have had to methodically reason our way through those deal-breaking events.

We've also applied our collective super brain to the issue of Newt's wanderings off the conservative reservation, and have come to the rational conclusion that there is a world of difference between positions and ones actual ACCOMPLISHMENTS while in office.

In case you hadn't noticed, this community spent weeks doing all of this before coalescing around him. Revisiting these arguments now is tedious, and unproductive. We're now at the political strategery phase of this show.

Even lengthy discussions about Rick Santorum and whether or not he should remain in the race, are a waste of time, unless we're talking about what he should do to assist us in taking Romney out of the equation.

109 posted on 01/25/2012 8:12:00 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: TitansAFC

I pray that he leaves the race and throws his complete support behind Newt Gingrich.


110 posted on 01/25/2012 8:13:28 PM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: TitansAFC

I disagree. Gingrich has a lot of problems even though he currently has the tea party all a twitter. They are hoping he is who he says he is. But what if something deal breaking comes
Out?

Santorum is trustworthy and does actually have good character.

He would make a president that we would not regret havin g voted for. Gingrich might just be using us to fulfill his narcissistic fantasies. I remain concerned. And Santorum is really honing his message at this big table. He is ready and will rise tO the occasion.


111 posted on 01/25/2012 8:22:01 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: SomeCallMeTim
Perhaps... but, where does that leave me? Mitt is awful. Newt is extreme and unstable... Paul is a non-starter. There AIN'T many good options left...

I don't know what to tell you, Tim. Do what the rest of us have done, and do some due diligence on Newt's life and his record in office. I don't see how you could do that, and not come away thinking that Newt is a more than acceptable standard bearer for patriotic, constitutional conservatives.

This stuff about Newt being "extreme and unstable" is just reverberations of ancient liberal attacks on the man. Stop buying it, because it's just not true.

112 posted on 01/25/2012 8:24:11 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Yaelle

Every election, same crap.

Rick cannot win, he can only ensure Mitt does.

Change the names, and I’ll see you next election cycle - we’ll have this same conversation.

Thanks in advance for Romney.


113 posted on 01/25/2012 8:25:02 PM PST by TitansAFC (Next time, GOP Establishment, back someone who isn't totally despised by the grassroots!)
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To: Parley Baer

I am looking to
Rick to stand above the fray and go after Obama this next debate.

His contrast with mitt is that he is a principled conservative. His contrast with newt is that he’s trustworthy and once nominated we won’t be treated to bimbo descriptions of the candidate’s privates etc. those who worked with Santorum like and respect him. Ok so he won’t get the gay vote. Whatcha gonna do.


114 posted on 01/25/2012 8:28:45 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: TitansAFC

Look for Mondays headline complete with the Newtbump on Tuesday; regardless of who / if Rick chooses to endorse.


115 posted on 01/25/2012 8:56:45 PM PST by bksanders (I think I just had my backslashed on a carriage return)
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To: anglian
Is this what I should take away from the earlier ranking of Santorum?

_________________________

"Transcripts tend to make all of us sound disorganized and rambling. But Sen. Santorum's remarks on immigration suggest to me a person who is intensely uncomfortable dealing with the issue. His constant references to his immigrant relatives generally are unhelpful for understanding what he would do on policy and make him sound afraid to set real boundaries on immigration."

"Inside all his debate rambling are some pretty good assurances against big amnesties (legalizations) and little amnesties (benefits and other rewards)."

"But he had good chances to talk about Attrition Through Enforcement, E-Verify and Birthright Citizienship, and chose to change the subject rather than provide us a glimpse at proposed leadership."

"On this day, Santorum's immigration platform is far inferior to that of candidates Romney and Bachmann."

ROY BECK is Founder & CEO of NumbersUSA

116 posted on 01/25/2012 9:28:46 PM PST by roscommon
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To: TitansAFC

agreed, make this a two man race and Romney is done.


117 posted on 01/25/2012 10:08:04 PM PST by fortheDeclaration (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Burke)
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To: TitansAFC

Who would Santorum endorse if he did drop out?

He has been criticizing Gingrich harshly.


118 posted on 01/25/2012 10:11:08 PM PST by DNA.2012
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To: SomeCallMeTim

Got a link to the article he supposedly wrote today trashing Gingrich?


119 posted on 01/25/2012 10:51:04 PM PST by ngat
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To: TitansAFC

Newt just had a reversal for Florida on Intrade.

Will you be asking him to step down if he gets trounced?

Florida Primary (Republican)
Contract Bid Ask Last Vol Chge
FLORIDA.ROMNEY
Mitt Romney to win the 2012 Florida Primary M Trade 72.5 73.9 73.2 29592 +34.2
FLORIDA.GINGRICH
Newt Gingrich to win the 2012 Florida Primary M Trade 23.1 25.3 23.0 26234 -37.3


120 posted on 01/25/2012 10:57:55 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: napscoordinator

I like having the insurance of him in the race as a “just in case”.

I think that line says it all. IF you’re for Newt then be for Newt. There’s this bandwagon out there that talks about the guy imploding. They said the same thing wishfully about Palin.

I’m sick to death with the negative Ann Coulter thinking that is all over athe place now. Newt is running against the idiot Romney, Santorum and Paul plus the republican party and the democrats.

Oh and the media would love to see him implode. They throw something up there every day to make us believe he has.


121 posted on 01/26/2012 12:26:50 AM PST by nikos1121
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To: Cobra64
FWIW those quotes are taken from an NPR interview in 2005, not 2012.

Here is an NPR article with a "Listen" link to the radio interview. The quotes follow the one minute mark in the audio.

I have never been able to take Santorum seriously as a candidate. It just seems too obvious that he will not win the nomination.

122 posted on 01/26/2012 12:40:58 AM PST by TChad
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To: Yaelle

Santorum isn’t the principled conservative though. I just can’t stand why this keeps getting repeated. He ran as a moderate Republican in PA! And the way he’s been sliming every conservative who has had a moment at the top of the polls is disgusting. I honestly don’t see the appeal of Santorum unless the people who are feeling the appeal haven’t been paying attention or know nothing about him.

When looked at from this perspective, Newt with his bimbos has more honesty and integrity than Santorum does with his righteous sweater vests and suitcases filled with family photos!


123 posted on 01/26/2012 2:56:25 AM PST by Apollo5600
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To: Kevmo

You guys are ridiculous, and I hear your crap every election. Every damn election the impossible candidate has his dreamers here telling us why his splitting the cote is okay and that the guy who has a chance sto win should be the one who drops out.

Keep buying your lottery tickets, Kevmo.

You folks do more actual harm to the Conservative causes than the RINOs, and you do so with a smug sense of piety.

Thanks in advance for Romney.


124 posted on 01/26/2012 5:38:09 AM PST by TitansAFC (Next time, GOP Establishment, back someone who isn't totally despised by the grassroots!)
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To: Windflier
In case you hadn't noticed, this community spent weeks doing all of this before coalescing around him.

I DID miss that... I don't spend much time in "this community" anymore.. since, it seems to have mostly devolved into a society for PURGING anyone who's not idealogically "pure"... whatever the heck that means.

I'm sorry though... I was never "down with Newt". Don't get me wrong.. I like a LOT about Newt. He's the best speaker remaining.. by far. And, he has the comabtiveness to take on the media... but, that's not good enough. Newt was a poster child for the effectiveness of Alinsky style tactics. He WAS driven out of office, in disgrace... not because of the ethics charges (which, were 99% bogus).... but, as the result of hypocrisy and negative branding. Face it: Newt was the FACE of "evil Republicans". I don't want to go back and try to re-argue the same issues from the mid-80's and 90's. We lost the argument then... it won't be any better now.

With Newt, EVERY DAY someone will be bringing up "new" (old) charges.. and, we (he) will be constantly defending 'what Newt said'... His recorded statements are extensive.. and, often highly controversial. I'll support him if nominated... but, I don't think any of us will enjoy that ride.

125 posted on 01/26/2012 7:01:19 AM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: ngat
Got a link to the article he supposedly wrote today trashing Gingrich?

It's the lead article on Drudge... alongside three other articles now of Newt trashing Reagan.

Just great stuff... :-(

126 posted on 01/26/2012 7:03:19 AM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: TitansAFC

You guys are ridiculous, and I hear your crap every election. Every damn election the impossible candidate has his dreamers here telling us why his splitting the cote is okay and that the guy who has a chance sto win should be the one who drops out.

Keep buying your lottery tickets, Kevmo.

You folks do more actual harm to the Conservative causes than the RINOs, and you do so with a smug sense of piety.

Thanks in advance for Romney.

***

Really. It’s SO inane, I can hardly stand it. What gets me the most is that the folks who are SO against abortion will be the very ones to give us the LEAST pro-life GOP candidate who will then usher in the most EVIL, DICTATORIAL, PRO-DEATH regime EVER TO operate in history!

PLEASE, Santorum voters ... it’s ok to stand by your principles, but youv’e got to LIVE to fight the fight!! At this point, you can kiss your cause goodbye! And kiss a lot more unborn babies goodbye as well.


127 posted on 01/26/2012 7:23:19 AM PST by LibsRJerks
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To: SomeCallMeTim

Thanks. I clicked over and read the Abrams National Review hitpiece on Gingrich, and upon honest analysis, I did not see anything “devastating”, or new, or that would prevent me from voting for him in the primary and even working to get Speaker Gingrich nominated and elected President.

Here is why. Abrams in defending the State Department and Reagan era policies that preceeded the fall of the Soviet Empire, makes the claim that the amount of funding wrung out of a reluctant democrat congress to fund the proxy wars against the commies was brilliantly also the exact minimum amount needed to be responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union. Abrams implies Gingrich, a young firebrand congressman at the time who was actually arguing for a MORE aggressive approach, was “insulting” Reagan and “his top aides” (Abrams?). Abrams also takes full credit for whatever unspecified benefit may have accrued to the United States for the fall of the Russian Empire, while vilifying the young congressman, not for voting for President Reagans policies regularly, which he did, but for not being unquestioning in his duty as an elected official to authorize funding for and examine if what Abrams was doing with the money would actually work. So Speaker Gingrich, raised a duck-and-cover kid, but voting the right way on the issue as a congressman, had over-estimated the strength and under-estimated the fragility of the Communists. That’s a reason to never vote for Speaker Gingrich in a primary? Yes, the older Reagan was correct in the amount of force it would take for the Soviet Empire to begin to crack. It did not take as much as Gingrich thought. That’s not a reason to never vote for Speaker Gingrich in a primary.

As regards the surge, I’ve never had it explained to me exactly why our troops were so understrength in the first few long YEARS of the occupation and why Bush went along so long losing our guys one by one, ignoring his own party’s calls for a surge - but I know Gingrich had nothing to do with that mistake. I could go on, but Limbaugh just came on and I need to monitor his daily attacks on Gingrich.


128 posted on 01/26/2012 9:27:37 AM PST by ngat
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To: TitansAFC

I think so, but it is up to him.


129 posted on 01/26/2012 9:28:54 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
I DID miss that... I don't spend much time in "this community" anymore.. since, it seems to have mostly devolved into a society for PURGING anyone who's not idealogically "pure"... whatever the heck that means.

I try to give you a rational explanation for why "this community" has coalesced around Newt Gingrich, and that's your response?

Well, la dee freakin' da. If Free Republic is too "devolved" for your dainty elite sensibilities, why don't you take a hike? Just purge yourself and save Jim Rob the trouble.

130 posted on 01/26/2012 10:53:35 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier

I give you a rational response explaining why I am not coalescing around Newt, and THAT is your response? That I should kick myself out to save Jim the trouble? Wow... Things haven’t changed here much. :-D


131 posted on 01/26/2012 12:44:31 PM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
I give you a rational response explaining why I am not coalescing around Newt, and THAT is your response?

A schoolyard taunt? Fine. Have a nice whatever.

132 posted on 01/26/2012 3:31:33 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: MrEdd

He might not endorse anyone if he drops out, but Romney isn’t on the menu.

Whatever, Santorum needs to go bye bye, or be linked to mittens forever


133 posted on 01/26/2012 3:42:08 PM PST by Figment
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To: ngat
I could go on, but Limbaugh just came on and I need to monitor his daily attacks on Gingrich

Let me first say... If you think Rush is making "daily attacks on Newt", then you must be a paid Newt supporter. I hear at least part of Rush every day... If anything, Rush gives MORE support to Newt than to any other candidate.

As for article... it's a LOT worse for Newt than just saying he was upset that Reagan wasn't doing MORE to stop communism. Newt was mocking Reagan. He was predicting failure for policies that worked... and, suggested that the Soviets were "superior" to the West in vision. ??WHAT??

The thing that bothers me the MOST about this article is.. it's yet another example of things Newt has said, on the record, that come back to haunt him. There seems to be an endless supply of these.

Reagan had a tough time fighting Congress... in these examples, Newt was clearly NOT helping.

134 posted on 01/26/2012 8:08:35 PM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: TitansAFC

And we hear your crap every election as well. How’s Newtie-boy doing in polls, and at Intrade? If he gets trounced, will you be asking him to drop out? NO. The reason isn’t due to him being the most electable conservative, it’s the same reason we had so many tootyfruityrudybots several years ago pushing the ‘inevitable’ candidate: you agree with him.


135 posted on 01/26/2012 8:11:44 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Windflier
A schoolyard taunt? Fine. Have a nice whatever.

What taunt? I simply repeated your logic?

Newt's belief in Man-Made global warming is enough reason for me to look for someone else. For me, personally... that is one of the MOST important issues.

136 posted on 01/26/2012 8:12:08 PM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
What taunt? I simply repeated your logic?

Are you .... ok?

That's fine. I'll just let myself out the side door here. Bye now.

137 posted on 01/26/2012 10:34:01 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

“Let me first say... If you think Rush is making “daily attacks on Newt”, then you must be a paid Newt supporter. I hear at least part of Rush every day... If anything, Rush gives MORE support to Newt than to any other candidate.

No, I am not a paid Gingrich supporter and that lie is the first indication - but that accusation right out of the box makes it clear you are a full-fledged Romneybot. Limbaugh has been in his full subtle attack mode on Gingrich ever since Gingrich became a threat to Romney. Of course Limbaugh can’t go very far, because his audience is conservative and knows Romney is a progressive pretending to be a conservative, so his attacks on Gingrich have to be quite nuanced, deniable, and nearly subliminal. There have been other threads on this topic for days now.

“As for article... it’s a LOT worse for Newt than just saying he was upset that Reagan wasn’t doing MORE to stop communism. Newt was mocking Reagan. He was predicting failure for policies that worked... and, suggested that the Soviets were “superior” to the West in vision. ??WHAT??”

Baloney. The National Review Abrams Attack has also FAILED. Since you claim to be a conservative talk radio listener, Didn’t you just hear Mark Levin’s defense of Gingrich on this very point? Mark Levin was there, part of the Reagan Administration, Mark Levin is a Santorum supporter, and even Levin couldn’t stomach the lie that Romney-supporting National Review article is pushing. If you did not hear Levin’s defense of Gingrich last night on the Abrams false accusations, just go listen to the first hour at marklevinshow.com. and you will learn something.

“The thing that bothers me the MOST about this article is.. it’s yet another example of things Newt has said, on the record, that come back to haunt him. There seems to be an endless supply of these.”

The endless supply of progressive and liberal and anti-Reagan things said and DONE - comes from Romney, not Gingrich. The endless supply YOU are talking about is an endless supply of words taken out of context, and twisted to feed the endless supply of Romney negative advertising dollars. Thanks to the internet, Romney’s lies and garbage attacks are not working.

“Reagan had a tough time fighting Congress... in these examples, Newt was clearly NOT helping.”

Too bad for you I actually read the hack Abrams’ article and noticed how he had selectively lifted even Gingrich’s single words, short phrases, and quotes and strung them together out of context them to paint the false picture of the Gingrich-Reagan relationship.

Perhaps Romney and National Review and the whole Romney-supporting establishment is not as smart as they think they are and the 80% of the party that consists of conservatives are not as dumb as they think we are.


138 posted on 01/27/2012 4:13:59 AM PST by ngat
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To: ngat
Try this as a format for indicating quotations and your replies. It'll make your own comments much easier to follow:
“Reagan had a tough time fighting Congress... in these examples, Newt was clearly NOT helping.”

Too bad for you I actually read the hack Abrams’ article and noticed how he had selectively lifted even Gingrich’s single words, short phrases, and quotes and strung them together out of context them to paint the false picture of the Gingrich-Reagan relationship.

139 posted on 01/27/2012 4:19:29 AM PST by aruanan
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To: Jim Robinson; TitansAFC; PapaBear3625; napscoordinator; ought-six; Longbow1969; ...
Jim Robinson is right, especially posts 24 and 90 quoted below.

First, even in the **BOB JONES UNIVERSITY** precinct in South Carolina, Gingrich lost by only 15 votes to Santorum, and won by large majorities elsewhere in the most conservative parts of one of our most conservative Bible Belt states. I frankly can't explain what happened in South Carolina, but Gingrich won big, and if that keeps up he's going to prove to a lot of evangelical leaders that our people are willing to vote for him.

Here's an interesting analysis by Dr. Oran Smith, President and CEO of the Palmetto Family Council in South Carolina, documenting that many of South Carolina's most conservative Christians voted for Gingrich:

http://caffeinatedcarolina.com/2012/01/the-evangelical-votes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CaffeinatedCarolina+%28Caffeinated+Carolina%29

As Jim Robinson has already pointed out, in Florida, a winner-take-all state, it looks like Santorum has done the right thing by participating in the debates but otherwise mostly backing off and trying to avoid being a vote-splitter who can't win and would only enable Romney.

It's too early to call for Santorum to drop out after only three elections. Also, as AMorePerfectUnion, sasportas, and marygam have pointed out, Gingrich has a history of being fairly volatile and since his rise back to prominence is rather recent, we'd better have a backup candidate in case something new blows up in what has been a chaotic election. The RINOs seem to have Mitch Daniels as their backup; why shouldn’t we have one whose name is actually on ballots?

I hope Jim Robinson is right and Romney drops out, not Santorum. Romney is a businessman, after all, and he's probably motivated less by ideology and more by bottom-line issues. Sooner or later he's going to either decide he's throwing good money after bad, as he did in 2008, or he's going to decide he can win this thing and pour in even more money.

I like the idea of a Gingrich-Santorum-Paul race. That would be a real debate between people who hold traditional conservative, social conservative, and libertarian views, without the RINO and semi-liberal influence. While I think Gingrich would probably win that race, we'd see a lot of social conservatives who are now voting for Gingrich to stop Romney decide they'd rather back Santorum as their first choice. In any case, it would be a race between two real conservatives and Ron Paul's libertarian views which are wrong but need to get rebutted.

But what if Romney doesn't drop out?

Those of us who are social issue conservatives need to face reality. Granted, only three states have voted so far, but if the South continues to vote for Gingrich, it's going to become obvious that our people are more interested in defeating Romney than electing a social issues conservative.

Conservative Christians have a bad history of demanding perfection in candidates, backing a guy who votes the right way but can't get enough people to vote for him, and then losing races by splitting the vote and enabling a RINO or a liberal because it takes 50 percent to win elections in America. That doesn't get our guy into office and mostly gets fellow conservatives mad at us.

It's looking more and more as if our people are voting for Gingrich despite what our leaders are saying. I'm going to take a great deal of criticism in my own circles for saying this, but I think it may be time for Florida evangelical leaders to encourage a vote for Gingrich since Santorum has no chance in that state due to its winner-take-all rules, and then decide on a state-by-state basis depending on how delegates are allocated whether it makes more sense to back Gingrich or back Santorum in each individual upcoming state.

Both Santorum and Gingrich have a solid track record on social issues. I think it's possible to vote for either candidate in good conscience. I know there are people who strongly disagree with me on that, but I believe stopping Romney with his record of flip-flopping on baby-killing needs to be our most important goal in the next few months.

This election has been such a crazy roller-coaster that it's probably premature for Santorum to pull out. But what's the long-term for Santorum? I don't see how he can win the primary this point unless some new crazy thing happens in the election, though I'm probably voting for him (and in my state Gingrich didn't make the ballot so I don't really have a choice). I hope Santorum gets either the vice-presidency or a significant cabinet spot in a Gingrich cabinet, or that Longbow1969 is right and he goes back to Pennsylvania and wins an election.

When this election is done, we're going to have some long, hard work in our churches. This election is exposing some serious problems among conservative evangelicals, but we can't get those problems fixed in the short time we have left until the primary season is over.

88 posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:41:41 PM by ought-six: “There is no way and no math that will get Rick Santorum to the nomination. He has some good qualities, but he needs to bail and let Newt pick up most of his flock.”

75 posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:31:35 PM by PapaBear3625: “If Newt loses Florida, he’s in trouble. If Newt wins Florida, then I can see him winning Super Tuesday and racing for the nomination. A lot is riding on his Florida performance.”

24 posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 7:25:49 PM by Jim Robinson: “And I like the idea of defeating Romney here and now in Florida. If Romney loses Florida, he’s done. Santorum has already admitted he’s abandoning Florida, but he shouldn’t drop out. He should just recommend to the Florida voters (like Sarah did in South Carolina) to vote for the leading conservative in the race (Newt in this case) and deprive Romney of the win and the delegates. After losing to Gingrich in South Carolina and Florida, Romney will either drop out or be dumped by the establishment or go down in flames later, then it’ll be a two man race between the two conservatives, Santorum and Gingrich.”

90 posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 8:44:21 PM by Jim Robinson: “Romney loses Florida watch the establishment go into panic mode. Losing South Carolina and Florida proves that he cannot win the south. Those in the know feared that the evangelicals, independents and women would not go for Newt. Well, looks like that was a pile of horse hockey. The know it alls had it backwards. They won’t go for Mitt.”

140 posted on 01/27/2012 5:45:10 AM PST by darrellmaurina
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To: ngat
If you did not hear Levin’s defense of Gingrich last night on the Abrams false accusations, just go listen to the first hour at marklevinshow.com. and you will learn something.

Thanks... I will. I like Levin, but seldom ever get to hear his show. The only thing I usually hear is Rush's first hour... then, some Medved or Hugh Hewitt in the evening. I'm a member of RUSH 24, so.. when I'm on the road, I usually catch the rest of Rush's show in the evening.

I haven't seen the other threads here Re: Rush. But, I'm pretty confident in saying Rush is working hard to stay pretty neutral in this primary. I've heard him say plenty of negative things about Romney, and plenty supportive of Newt. Yesterday was no exception. He defended Newt pretty strongly.

The endless supply of progressive and liberal and anti-Reagan things said and DONE - comes from Romney, not Gingrich.

As I posted earlier.... Not matter how troubling the Gingrich quotes are to me (and, they are).. the things Romney is ON VIDEO saying, are far worse. These knocks against Gingrich aren't driving me towards Romney... they are nudging me towards Santorum.. which, is why I was posting on this thread to begin with.

It is rather clear that these are "selected" quotes from Gingrich.. but, there does seem to be quite a few of them. And, I suspect there will be quite a few more.

makes it clear you are a full-fledged Romneybot.

Ok.. THAT made me laugh a little. :-) I suppose, by the standards of this board, I must be a "Romney-bot". I don't like Romney... I wouldn't vote for him in a primary unless it was down to him and Paul... and, even then, I'm not sure. But, I don't fear Romney as the end of the world like most here do.

Frankly.. I don't see THAT much difference between Romney and Newt. To me, they BOTH look like BIG government progressives. Newt even CALLS himself a "progressive"... I take him at his word (even though, mendacity seems to be an issue for him lately)

Newt is definitely more convincing at what he says these days... but, they BOTH are "saying" a lot of what we want to hear. Newt DOES have a record of slowing runaway government spending... but, immediately after he did that, he was shamed from office.. and then, spent the next 10 years lobbying and running around talking about big government ideas like Cap & Trade and government health care. He LIKES the idea of "better, smarter government"... I prefer LESS government.

Newt seems to be able to capture the imagination of the youth of today... with his grandiose rhetoric. That's a good thing. Lord knows, the youth in this country need a big dose of optimism. But, I'm old and jaded... I can't help but think a President Newt will be bad news for CO2 limitation, for immigration reform, and any number of other BIG government, progressive ideas.

141 posted on 01/27/2012 6:31:26 AM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: darrellmaurina; Yaelle
In the next four years, we are not going to need a principled conservative. We are definitely not going to need a "nice guy".

The US is bankrupt. The establishment just haven't admitted it yet. The only way to draw us back from the abyss will be to savagely slash federal spending, regulation, and business-unfriendly laws, and to gut union power. If we do so, expect rioting.

Review what happened last year in Wisconsin, and visualize that happening in DC and nationwide. There will be killing in the streets and cities will burn.

What we will need is somebody with the fighting spirit to hold the line through all the insanity. I don't think Santorum has it. I'm positive that Romney doesn't have it. I think Gingrich might have it.

God help us is we have a President who is too chicken to do what's needed in the coming few years.

142 posted on 01/27/2012 6:47:52 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: PapaBear3625

I agree with you. Up until Tuesday I wasn’t sure if the most principled conservative was ballsy enough for the fight ahead. Santy had the character and consistency, and newt had the mouth and the fight. I was worried because newt doesn’t always use the Force for good!

But last night, even moreso than Tuesday, the consistent, principled one brought out a big steel set. He’s rising to the occasion like I had hoped. He could do this. Sometimes there are two horses neck and neck the whole race and someone else comes past them from the rails.


143 posted on 01/27/2012 7:59:06 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: Yaelle
Santorum lost his Senate seat in 2006. People forget WHY he lost. He lost because, after gaining office by giving the impression that he was a "principled conservative", Santorum endorsed RINO, pro-abortion Arlen Specter in the 2004 PA primary against conservative pro-life challenger Pat Toomey. Spector won narrowly, and Santorum's endorsement probably made the difference. Spector later stabbed the Republican Party in the back by switching to Democrat.

I was not motivated to vote for Santorum in 2006 as a result.

I don't think that Santorum is a principled conservative. I think he's a fake, and puts up whatever persona he thinks may be useful.

144 posted on 01/27/2012 8:34:24 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

Sorry about the Romneybot crack. You seem like a reasonable person, just cynical about Gingrich actually performing as a small-government conservative if he makes president. I also have my doubts about that, but think Gingrich would respond to Tea Party Person concerns better than any of the rest of them. For any President to actually reduce Federal Government role and spending, it will take both houses of the congress and the people to hold their feet to the fire.

My perception of Limbaugh’s nuanced negative treatment of Gingrich is simply something that does not seem to register with you, and I know it to be true, but if you can’t feel it, well, ok.

Gingrich and Romney equivalent big-government progressives?Not even close.

Amazing that the two oldest candidates seem to be inspiring the youth the most, isn’t it? But Romney isn’t far behind in age - in fact he would be one of the oldest presidents ever elected if he won also. Which brings me to my point: Romney is absolutely certain to do nothing but try to shore up and continue the blue-model of big central government and best social practices of the last 100 years of the progressive method of governing. We are on the cusp a major change, due to the unsustainable debt and obviously occurring breakdown of the current model, recognized by nearly everybody under age 60. Gingrich and Paul see it, and I don’t think Santorum does, and Romney thinks he can stop it. Rather than fretting about what you fear a President Newt might do about for CO2 limitation, immigration reform, and any number of other BIG government, progressive ideas, you can be sure Gingrich knows better than to fight his contituency and the Congress on these issues if he gets elected. He knows the tide has turned.

Gingrich is best equipped to deal with the big changes that are on the way.


145 posted on 01/27/2012 8:50:34 AM PST by ngat
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To: ngat
Sorry about the Romneybot crack. You seem like a reasonable person

No worries... thanks for sticking with the conversation long enough to find out. Lately, that rarely seems to happen on this forum. :-(

As it turns out... it seem the Abrams article DOES INDEED have a number of serious flaws. Levin did a great job of exposing them... and, indeed, Rush piled on today with further information It's a shame: Abrams WAS a person that I thought had integrity... Either he's lost it completely, or was duped by others. I'm embarrassed to admit I bought into it. I should have trusted my own memory and instincts... I didn't recall Newt saying much of anything "anti-Reagan". That's why I was so shocked by it.

Non-issue to me now... except as, further proof of the depths of dirty-politics being played these days.

As for Rush: I've heard the slams he's made agains Newt. I suppose these register more harshly with you than with me. What I hear is... Rush freely speaking his mind, covering reservations and qualms he has about Newt....and other candidates. But, as I said.. he ALSO often says good things about Newt, and about the importance of FULL-THROATED espousal of conservative ideals... When Rush says that, I ALWAYS assume he's talking about Newt, not Mitt.

I 100% agree with you about the seriousness of the change that is before us... It's the strongest case you make: Newt being the "most capable" of dealing with it. Despite my doubts... I have to admit that this is true.

146 posted on 01/27/2012 1:59:48 PM PST by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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