3 2 1 -- Blastoff with NEWTonium!
"Soyuz with returning NASA astronauts lands safely in Kazakhstan"
Put the Apollo back in Apollo-Soyuz, Newt - and give us and the Russians something to build together again, FOR ALL MANKIND.
Skip to comments.Space travel emerges as wedge in Florida primary race
Posted on 01/28/2012 8:28:57 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
.....While Gingrich is floating space-travel plans at a staggering rate -- even for a candidate who's been teased for his frequently "grandiose" proposals -- Romney is proudly tamping down the dream.
After ridiculing Gingrich on Thursday for pushing expensive and allegedly outlandish proposals, the former Massachusetts governor on Friday suggested Gingrich was pandering. And, Romney conceded, he does not really have a space plan. Not yet, anyway. Rather, Romney committed to carefully creating one once he's president.
"In the politics of the past, to get your vote on the Space Coast, I'd come here and promise hundreds of billions of dollars -- yeah, you want to hear that, yeah. Or I'd lay out what my mission is, here's what we're going to accomplish. I'm not going to do that," Romney said.
The candidate said he is not going to tell Florida "what the mission will be," but "how I'm going to get there." He said he'd bring in experts from across the military, NASA, and leading institutions and businesses, and then create a plan.
It is a risky move on the Space Coast. Romney is trying to cast himself as the straight-talking, pragmatic and fiscally responsible candidate -- the one who doesn't just tell voters what they want to hear....
But Gingrich, based on the reaction of his audiences, seems to be feeding a spark in Florida. With the space industry facing massive layoffs following the end of the space shuttle program, Gingrich is urging Americans to dream big once again and likening his critics to those who would doubt John F. Kennedy or the Wright brothers.
"I am sick of being told we have to be timid," Gingrich told an enthusiastic crowd in Florida on Wednesday.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
romney is an ass
The First Trillionaires Will Make Their Fortunes in Space
Market Value of Metallic Asteroid
Market prices for metals and other commodities vary. New York commodity market prices for precious and base metals gave the prices for gold, platinum, and nickel on January 8, 2010. Iron prices can be found on scrap metal markets. The listed iron price is an approximate average for 2009. The prices to the nearest dollar are:
Converting from grams to tons, pounds, or ounces and multiplying by the current market price, gives the estimated market price of the metals in asteroid 1986 DA.
Iron 2.2 trillion dollars
Nickel 17.6 trillion dollars
Platinum 5.5 trillion dollars
Gold 0.4 trillion dollars
Total 25.7 trillion dollars
The total estimated market price for metals found in the 2 kilometer diameter metallic asteroid 1986 DA in early 2010 is over 25 trillion dollars.
Read more at Suite101: Economic Impact of Asteroids & Space Exploration: Market Value of Metallic Asteroid Greater than US National Debt | Suite101.com http://paul-a-heckert.suite101.com/economic-impact-of-asteroids-space-exploration-a187015#ixzz1klqh6lhl
We are a nation of pioneers and when we stop seeking to go to new lands, then we lose an essential part of what has made America great.
3 2 1 -- Blastoff with NEWTonium!
"Soyuz with returning NASA astronauts lands safely in Kazakhstan"
Put the Apollo back in Apollo-Soyuz, Newt - and give us and the Russians something to build together again, FOR ALL MANKIND.
Romney will of course lie and try to convince people that Newt’s space plan is big-government spending. But Newt said last night that he would try to get 90% of the funding from the private sector. I agree with him that there are extremely wealthy people who would love to get in on his plan. Look at Richard Branson of Virgin Airlines.
The Greedy New World order types dont want the people to know the amounts of money Space mining will be worth to Our Country.
Newts right on.
I just read this morning that China plans on colonising the moon.
Is Gingrich so fare fetched with his plan.
Are we ready to say to the Chinese that they can have the moon free and clear?
America is a leader in the space race, or it was before Obamalamadingdong.
We could still be a leader if we stop letting half of America sit on their ass ,not working, while the other half is bled dry.
Just let China has it then, Mittens.
“Of all the possible destinations in space, the Moon offers the proximity, accessibility, and materials necessary to learn how to use what we find in space to create new capabilities. Harvesting the resources of the Moon will allow us to make what we need in space, rather than carrying it with us from the Earths surface. The model currently used to pursue our national interests in space design-launch-use-discard restrains opportunity, affordability and capability. We can break the limits imposed on all of these factors by learning how to use the resources of space.
The development of the Moon creates an extensible, flexible transportation system that opens up the new frontier for many possibilities. Acquiring this essential space faring skill requires investment and commitment, with the full understanding of what will be achieved by this paradigm shift the beginnings of a new space-based economy. What price tag would you put on that?”........
....”We take as our mission the original Vision for Space Exploration. We go to the Moon to establish a permanent human presence there and a reusable, refuelable, and extensible transportation system to support such presence. Once established, we will have a space faring system that can not only routinely access the Moon, but all other points in cislunar space and beyond, including the L-points and near-Earth asteroids.”...
You’re right, Romney is a mighty ass. But I’ve noticed that the sneering has mostly come from the retarded media. I loathe Jon Stewart on almost any occasion - I think he is a talentless schmuck. But when he started in on our mighty space program (gutted by Obama) I almost tossed my cookies. These people will destroy everything in our culture to win a single advantage point over a Republican candidate.
I vividly remember watching Neil Armstrong stepping onto the surface of the moon. It was a late night for an eight year old, but my father said I would tell my grandchildren about seeing the first man walk on the moon. The next morning, Miss Baird freshly decorated the entire classroom (It was a summertime art program) in an Apollo theme, with A SMALL STEP FOR A MAN, A GIANT LEAP FOR MANKIND in proud block letters above the front chalkboard. It seemed that we were accelerating toward a bright future in the heavens. Yet, humans have not set foot on the moon since 1972. Has mankind simply stumbled after such a great leap, or have we put the tools to reach for the stars outside of our collective grasp?
One Scenario for Lunar Profit
The technology presently exists for individuals or corporations to profit from the resources on the moon. The flat lowlands, or "mare" regions formed about 4 billion years ago when immense asteroid impacts fractured the crust, allowing the lavas from 200 miles deep to erupt forming vast seas of lava. The resulting lava seas, which were rich in iron and magnesium, mixed with predominantly aluminum silicates. The result, after billions of years of pounding by meteorites, micrometeorites and solar and cosmic radiation is a powder 2 to 10 meters deep in the lowlands, and 100s to 1000s of meters (kilometers) in the highlands.
This regolith layer consists of minerals containing aluminum, calcium, iron, magnesium and a remarkably high content of titanium. These and other abundant minerals are the building blocks for ceramics, glass and fiberglass, which can be used in refining and producing metals for structures, tools and, ultimately, export. The absence of an atmosphere makes solar energy abundant. Life sustaining ice has recently been discovered.
The Tools to Tame An Undeveloped Expanse
Economic development using only available raw materials located in an undeveloped environment was once central to the national consciousness in the United States. European monarchies made initial capital outlays to explore the west. However, expenditure by national governments did not develop the new world. Economic innovations such as the corporate form enabled almost any entrepreneur to access sufficient capital to finance journeys for commercial benefit. The great fortunes that ensued coincided with increased average longevity, greater knowledge and technical innovations, all of which greatly enhanced the aggregate quality of life of mankind.
In America, the lesson of permitting the free access to capital became central to our national consciousness. One of our first lessons was the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which nearly winked out of existence. After the starvation deaths of many of the Pilgrims, Governor Bradford suspended the provisions of the Mayflower charter requiring the colonists to turn over all production into a common store. Instead, each family received a plot of land to work and manage. The year following resulted in such abundance, that the colonists feasted in thanksgiving to the Lord. Our national day of Thanksgiving is still celebrated today.
Sadly, the mostly unrestrained entepreneurism that forged the expansion and construction of the United States has been a target for many who seek to provide for even greater good. Yet, nearly every attempt to legislate egalitarian ideals has resulted in the restriction of the free access to capital for entrepreneurs. The inevitable result is lost opportunity and economic stagnation.
So, has mankind stumbled or stagnated, when it comes to reaching toward the moon? What follows may surprise you. As you read the following selected quotes from the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967, you should ask whether you, as an investor, would place the extremely high risk portion of you portfolio in a venture where there is no private property, where there is no privacy and where disputes are resolved by the U.N.:
The exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind.
Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be free for exploration and use by all States without discrimination of any kind, on a basis of equality and in accordance with international law, and there shall be free access to all areas of celestial bodies.
There shall be freedom of scientific investigation in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, and States shall facilitate and encourage international co-operation in such investigation. Article II
Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.
* * *
In order to promote international co-operation in the peaceful exploration and use of outer space, States Parties to the Treaty conducting activities in outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, agree to inform the Secretary-General of the United Nations as well as the public and the international scientific community, to the greatest extent feasible and practicable, of the nature, conduct, locations and results of such activities. On receiving the said information, the Secretary-General of the United Nations should be prepared to disseminate it immediately and effectively.
All stations, installations, equipment and space vehicles on the Moon and other celestial bodies shall be open to representatives of other States Parties to the Treatyon a basis of reciprocity. Such representatives shall give reasonable advance notice of a projected visit, in order that appropriate consultations may be held and that maximum precautions may be taken to assure safety and to avoid interference with normal operations in the facility to be visited.
Any State Party to the Treaty may give notice of its withdrawal from the Treaty one year after its entry into force by written notification to the Depositary Governments. Such withdrawal shall take effect one year from the date of receipt of this notification.
The solution for stimulating a stagnating reach for the stars should be obvious to our policy makers. Massive expenditures by central governments may be the right formula for proving that great feats of exploration can bear fruit. However, for sustained activity in undeveloped expanses to take root, entrepreneurs need free access to capital. This includes private property and ownership of land. Without it, the Massachusetts Bay Colony would been nothing more than a historical footnote and Thanksgiving would have no meaning to Americans.
The Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967 is toxic to the exploration and economic development in the heavens. An amendment to include grants of celestial private property or an outright treaty withdrawal will be the first step toward equipping American entrepreneurs with the tools they need to reach for the stars.
Real moons and satellites of course are supposed to be made of rocks, dirt, and green cheese and the like i.e. they aren't supposed to reflect light like that all over the place. That's before you even get to the Cydonia megaliths or the new findings of areas which appear to be sandy plains in ESA images:
But with adjustments to brightness/contrast or red/yellow hue and saturation look like this:
I've checked several of these things out myself using the GNU Gimp package, the claims you see on youtube are mostly believable.
Romney said if someone approached him with that idea, he'd say "you're fired." Stagnation should be added to the list of what voters should fear in Romney. The very same thing that is holding this country back today.
Remember when America was the land of opportunity and we taught our children to dream big?
Now we are mocked for it.
And correct me if I’m wrong, I didn’t hear Newt say the government was going to pay for all this as slime Romney keeps saying. If I were Newt, I would have slammed Mittens right back on that false allegation and set the record straight.
Apollo and the U.S. moon landings riveted the world. It actually was a positive, exciting and emotional coming together of people around the world --- and because it was Americans doing it. The ideological makeup of those who conquer the moon again or next, will make a huge political statement. The fact that the U.S. did land men on the moon, gave huge credibility to SDI and why the USSR bankrupted themselves trying to compete with "Star Wars," and why if China succeeds now and we fall back the world will change for the worse.
Newt was my choice before his space speech, but now I kinda have a man crush(non gay of course). I have been into astronomy since I was a kid and Newt is the first to give me hope for our future in space.
The naysayers put forth the fact that we have more pressing problems on earth, but he laid out a plan that doesn’t rely as much on the taxpayer as much as private entrepreneurs.
Also I believe a Gingrich administration would open up unprecedented financial growth.
I’m a Robert Heinlein conservative. A Starship Trooper, Have Spacesuit, Will Travel conservative. I believe we have to start colonizing the Moon and then Mars and we have to do so soon. Because if we don’t, we die.
The Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967 precludes this asteroid becomming private property. No same investor will invest in such a project. So the profits you suggest will never happen, unless we withdraw from the treaty.
You are joking and if not, buzz off.
It isn't just about inspiration. A large industrialized state like the US needs some sort of a driving engine for its economy i.e. an economy like ours cannot be based on building houses and cars. Since the end of WW-II, that driving engine has been what some call "War Incorporated"; the exploration of our solar system would be more productive than that.
Newt said Private Investment and Nasa, Private firms have the right to go and mine them. Part of the agenda in Davos Switzerland was on that very subject.
I’m not joking and I occasionally post this stuff for the benefit of people bright enough to check it out for themselves, which might mean learning to use image software. Sorry if that doesn’t include you.
Screw government spending projects - all we are asking for is Solyndra in space. Withdraw from the treaty.
Do you have broadband in your cave?
Screw government spending - we will get Solyndra in space. Withdraw from Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967.
You need to get familiar with the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967.
Asteroid Mining: Key to the Space Economy
by Mark Sonter, National Space Society
Date: 09 February 2006 Time: 06:51 AM ET
However, it is man's inspiration that has driven civilization forward. Our greatest leaders inspired and had vision. As Newt pointed out in his speech, people laughed at Lincoln's idea of a railroad and the Wright brothers initial failures of flight.
I'm sure Romney would have fired the Wright brothers if they initially worked for him. Oh, and yes, our economy has been driven by building homes and cars until we exported that opportunity.
I can vouch for that. I was touring Europe at the time and wherever I went, people singled out Americans with smiles, cheers, free beers, congratulations. I swear I had nothing to do with getting those guys to the moon, but Europeans kept piling on the credit with great joy. Never saw such unanimous happiness before or since.
You need to read it, As I said Private companies and citizens have the right to mine them irregardless of the treaty
Read it here.
1972 was like Columbus getting to the new world - both financed by, more or less, public money. The United States became what it was, and Europe profited beyond immagination, because financial innovations permitted for profit expeditions. Profiting from the new world did not happen right away.
As it stands now, the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967 completely inhibits investment in extra terrestrial for profit ventures. Nothing will ever happen until we withdraw from the treaty.
Nobody in their right mind would put venture capital in a for profit extraterrestrial venture with the 1967 Treaty on the Exploration and Use of Outer Space being what it is.
>>Apollo and the U.S. moon landings riveted the world.
NASA’s Finest Hour
Sy Liebergot recalls the race to save Apollo 13
With enough duct-tape, determination, and American FREEDOM - anything is possible.
your just hearing yourself. The USA never ratified the Moon treaty. Sound like you just dont like the idea of Newt being close to the right side on this.
Lunar base illustration
Extracting resources from the Moon could run afoul of the Moon Treaty even if its done by a country that hasnt signed onto or ratified the accord. (credit: NASA)
The Moon Treaty: failed international law or waiting in the shadows?
by Michael Listner
Monday, October 24, 2011
Bookmark and Share
In his essay Is a human asteroid mission a non-starter? (The Space Review, October 17, 2011), Anthony Young explored whether a mission to an asteroid planned by the Obama Administration is captivating enough to retain public interest until its planned launch in 2025. In the ensuing commentary, several people discussed the issue of resource exploitation, with this author postulating that, aside from the technical and economic challenges to exploiting mineral resources on asteroids, the current state of international law, specifically the Moon Treaty 1979, might be an obstacle.
The discussion drew the critique that the Moon Treaty is not binding international law since the United States, the Russian Federation, and the Peoples Republic of China (PRC) have neither signed, acceded to, nor ratified the Moon Treaty. This essay will briefly explore the nature of international law, the Moon Treaty of 1979, and the weight of that accord in the context of international law.
So tell me how you would write a disclosure on the material risks posed by the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967 to a for profit venture seeking to raise publicly and how that may effect the price of your offering. Then I will talk to you about broadband.
>>Nothing will ever happen until we withdraw from the treaty.
Did the Chinese Communists get that memo?
With money saved from reduced spending on our social programs, we'll be able to build spaceships again.
Wake up the funding is private Industry, Mining companies and the equipment companies are allready involved in thees studies
So quit with the Demo chat about the elderly cuts.
Read my comment just above yours we did not ratify the treaty.
The UN seems to disagree.
I have not fully read the sources you have cited. All I am telling yoy is that the treaty puts a gigantic legal obstacle in the way of raising private capital. Let's say you have billions and you plan a for profit launch from your own private equatorial island to mine an asteriod. Will the UN and all the signatories to the treaty just OK, good luck, when they have a claim to the profits?
The US ratified the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967, not the 1979 treaty.
no ratification since Regan refused and overwrote it read the post and zots for you
The Carter administration was in favor of approving the treaty. But with the election of Ronald Reagan the Moon Treaty is a “dead issue,” according to administration officials and Congressional sources. President Reagan does not plan to submit the treaty for ratification to the Senate and, even if he did, there is a consensus that the Foreign Relations Committee would not pass it. “The danger is over,” said one informed Senate source. “It’s not going anywhere so nobody has to worry about it.”
The Chinese will dela with the 1967 Treaty on the Exploration and Use of Outer Space as have with any other treaty. It is easy to withdraw from it. They may well plan to withdraw, once they have the advantage.
In the meantime, the treaty totally inhibits any venture from raising capital by putting gigantic leal risks into the mix. No private venture can raise enough capital to pull off a profitable mission. As a result, we get exploding shuttles with eco friendy foam and the promise of future Solyndras in space. Nobody will do it right until you get capitalists involved.
The Carter administration was in favor of approvung the treaty. But with the election of Ronald Reagan the Moon Treaty is a “dead issue,” according to administration officials and Congressional sources. President Reagan does not plan to submit the treaty for ratification to the Senate and, even if he did, there is a consensus that the Foreign Relations Committee would not pass it. “The danger is over,” said one informed Senate source. “It’s not going anywhere so nobody has to worry about it.”
The disputed treaty is formally known as the “Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies.” It was adopted by the U.N. General Assembly without opposition and without vote in December 1979. Before it becomes legally binding for the U.S., however, the Moon Treaty would need to be signed by Reagan and ratified by the Senate.
The Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies FN49 [the Space Treaty], was signed at Washington, London, and Moscow on 27 January 1967, and entered into force on 10 October 1967.
FN49. 18 U.S.T. 2410, T.I.A.S. 6347, 61 U.N.T.S. 205 (1967).
Beattie v. U.S. 756 F.2d 91, 99, 244 U.S.App.D.C. 70, 78 (C.A.D.C.,1984)
Every post I have made on this subject references the 1967 Treaty, which unquestionalbly has been ratified by the US. I never made mention of the 1979 treaty, which was far far worse.
Gidney and Cloyd also refused to sign the treaty.