Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Vanity: The Constitutional Meaning Of "Natural Born Citizen"
Vanity Essay | 31 January 2012 | sourcery

Posted on 01/31/2012 4:03:01 PM PST by sourcery

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100101-120121-140141-156 next last
To: SeaHawkFan

long read but well done..


101 posted on 01/17/2016 11:57:08 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sourcery

I didn’t read the whole thing, but I skipped to the end and read this, which is obviously untrue:

“The settled law of the land is that the US President must be a natural born citizen, and that to be a natural born citizen, you must have been born in the United States to parents both of whom were US citizens when you were born.”

In other words, you are claiming that it is “settled law” that both John McCain and Barack Obama are constitutionally ineligible to run for President.

I’m glad you wrote that. It means that I needn’t waste my time reading the rest, per Luke 16:10.

In fact, it has always been understood that anyone who is a U.S. citizen at birth is a natural born citizen. That’s what the term means, and what it has always meant. That’s been settled since 1790, when the first Congress enacted a statute declaring that children born overseas of U.S.parents are natural born U.S. citizens.

That statute was signed into law by President Washington.

As a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court in Minor v. Happersett affirmed there are exactly two classes of citizens: “new citizens may be born or they may be created by naturalization.” The former are natural-born, the latter are naturalized. There’s no halfway-between class of citizens, who are citizens from birth but not natural-born.

There’s no evidence at all, in the language or history of the U.S. Constitution, to suggest that the Framers envisioned a third class of citizens, who were citizens from birth but not to be considered “natural born.” Only crackpots like Mario Apuzzo claim such a thing, and they have no evidence to support it.

If the First Congress had meant to define some other sort of citizen, they certainly would not have used the exact term used in the Constitution: natural born. They would not have said, “shall be considered as natural born citizens” if what they’d really meant was “shall be considered as citizens, but not natural born.” There’s no suggestion in any known historical or legal document that any of the Framers thought there could be a third sort of citizen, who was neither a natural born citizen nor a naturalized citizen.

At no time has any Congress ever written any statute suggesting that someone who is born a U.S. citizen might not be a natural born citizen of the United States.

Here are four references:

1. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-66/pdf/STATUTE-66-Pg163.pdf (if interested in Ted Cruz, see Sec. 301(a)(7) on p.236, which is p.74 as Acrobat Reader numbers the pages in that file).

2. http://tinyurl.com/NatBornHarv

3. http://tinyurl.com/natz-chart-a

4. http://tinyurl.com/natz-chart-b

Reference #1 is the statute which specifically applies to Ted Cruz’s circumstance, though it’s the current version, rather than the 1970 version.

Reference #3 is a chart which takes into account how the law has changed over the years. (What matters is what the law was when a person was born.)

Reference #2 is a Harvard Law review article about the meaning of the term “natural born.” It was written by two former Solicitors General of the United States, one Republican and one Democrat.

Reference #4 doesn’t apply to any of the current candidates, but might have applied to President Obama if he’d been born overseas, and if his parents’ brief, illegal, bigamous marriage had been declared invalid.


102 posted on 02/11/2016 3:13:41 PM PST by ncdave4life
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ncdave4life

Your rebuttal is comprehensively and unarguably refuted by what you refused to read.


103 posted on 02/11/2016 4:27:13 PM PST by sourcery (Without the right to self defense, there can be no rights at all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: sourcery

Bookmark


104 posted on 02/16/2016 10:02:29 PM PST by publius911 (IMPEACH HIM NOW evil, stupid, insane ignorant or just clueless, doesn't matter!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: sourcery

Thank you for re-posting your excellent essay on the subject of natural born citizenship.

It’s, by far, the best that has ever been posted to this site, and probably any other.


105 posted on 02/16/2016 10:41:18 PM PST by Windflier (Pitchforks and torches ripen on the vine. Left too long, they become black rifles.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sourcery

You have FReepmail.


106 posted on 02/17/2016 12:29:20 AM PST by Former War Criminal (Who am I? Why am I here?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sourcery
As far as the United States Constitution, pay particular attention to U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8. Also, pay particular attention to U.S. Constitution - Article I, section 5 As I have commented on before and supported with links, in the article Akhil Reed Amar, author of CNN's Why Ted Cruz is eligible to be president wrote: NOTE: nonjusticiable political question

Now, let's take a close look at the word "NATURALIZATION", its history, and FROM WHERE it was derived .
What is the root word of "Naturalization" ? Not only could the Founding Father define "natural born citizen", BUT ... THE FOUNDING FATHERS DID DEFINE IT !


The Naturalization Act of 1790, let's read it !


Take a look at the original one WRITTEN BY our FOUNDING FATHERS,
and VERIFY IT FOR YOURSELF in the list of NAMES of the members of our FIRST CONGRESS !



1st United States Congress, 21-26 Senators and 59-65 Representatives


Finally, read the latest from links provided by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), the government agency that oversees lawful immigration to the United States. READ IT VERY CLOSELY.
107 posted on 02/17/2016 12:33:47 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sourcery

So the statement that "natural born means both parents " has been DENIED by the courts !
108 posted on 02/17/2016 12:37:14 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: sourcery

I’m not a lawyer — BTT!


109 posted on 02/17/2016 3:46:55 AM PST by Read Write Repeat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GBA; sourcery
Thanks for taking the time and effort to write your essay and this response.

This post and your essay are clear and detailed should someone want to understand this issue more fully.

Interesting how we humans are our own destructive agents of entropy, choosing to create disorder from order by diluting the purity of the strict rules and definitions that benefit and protect us when they get in the way of our whims of the moment.

Franklin warned us when he said "A Republic, if you can keep it."

Agreed. And I mean both of you. Epic efforts.

110 posted on 02/17/2016 3:57:29 AM PST by Democratic-Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: Yosemitest; GBA; Mollypitcher1; sourcery
Dear God no. Just NO.

All your excellent effort ( and I do mean that ) is based on the unfortunate but mistaken belief in the supremacy of the Congress.

Think about it, an imperial Congress, non-co-equal with the ability to edit, rewrite, interpret the Constitution on the fly. And that is what they would be doing by determining who is in that mysterious category of Natural Born and by extension who can run for President.

Apparently Congress and We The People went through all that trouble with the 13th/14th/15th Amendments when mere statutory law from Congress-critters would have been sufficient? Suffrage, 18-year old vote, Senate elections, Presidential term limits and succession all could have been legislated instead of the actual ratified articles by the States and We The People?

Original Intent is about specific and limited enumerated powers of all the branches, including Congress, not a "fill in the blanks" etch-a-sketch. Their enumerated Article I Section 8 power is only to naturalize ALIENS into plain old CITIZENS. Full stop. This is a mutually exclusive pool of people that does not include the separate pool of Article II Section 1 Natural Born Citizens. Your entire premise misses this point and seems to be aimed at merging them somehow. More here

The most obvious test that your hypothesis fails is the famous edit made from the 1790 Naturalization Law to the 1795 modification, that brought it into line with Original Intent ...

From NEW EVIDENCE: Intent of 1790 Naturalization Act, research from a 1967 House member ...

In 1795, James Madison himself actually expressed concern that some might erroneously infer, from the 1790 Act, that the foreign-born children of American parents actually "are" (not merely "considered as") natural born citizens. McElwee indicates:

Mr. James Madison, who had been a member of the Constitutional Convention and had participated in the drafting of the terms of eligibility for the President, was a member of the Committee of the House, together with Samuel Dexter of Massachusetts and Thomas A. Carnes of Georgia when the matter of the uniform naturalization act was considered in 1795. Here the false inference which such language might suggest with regard to the President was noted, and the Committee sponsored a new naturalization bill which deleted the term "natural-born" from the Act of 1795. (1 Stat 414) The same error was never repeated in any subsequent naturalization act.

Madison is clearly anticipating those like you that will run wildly with the belief that an almighty Congress is in the business of carving Commandments into tablets on high. They most certainly are not. Madison, the most central figure in the Constitution is specifically telling you that Congress does NOT define who a Natural Born Citizen is.

We are seriously going to need a full Constitutional reset. And I don't mean a Mark Levin Article V slate of baby Amendments. I mean a full blown, burn it down to the ground and start over reset. The republic is thoroughly finished if even our own FRiends want a Politburo to compliment the already out of control Supreme Court and a thoroughly compromised and over-reaching executive branch. ~sigh~

If nothing else, I hope some people now can figure out why the simple and clear logic of a time tested boolean algorithm ...

USA born AND citizen mother AND citizen father = NBC

... cuts out all the stupid edge cases and KISS keeps it simple. What possible reason do we have for entertaining anything outside of this envelope? The only reason to argue against this is if your intention is to internationalize/globalize America into a shell of its former self.

I ask those who question this simple algorithm to explain why it is that we have no examples, I said NO EXAMPLES of either Presidents, Candidates or even people running for nomination prior to President DingleBarry? Is it pure coincidence?

Furthermore, if any American citizen begets a Natural Born Citizen anywhere they deliver their baby in the world and anyone that delivers here ( and we'll leave sperm banks out of this ) then unless we are walled in and no-one can enter or leave, after enough time passes eventually every single person on planet Earth will be a NBC. Think about it!

Our suicidal trajectory after 228 years is on track to blast right past Rome and its 1000 years. Visigoths, Mexicans, stick a fork in us right now.

111 posted on 02/17/2016 3:57:36 AM PST by Democratic-Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: SvenMagnussen
US Citizens who have or have had dual citizenship are not.

Just curious. I am the 3rd of 6 children born to my parents - both of whom were US citizens from birth and by birth. My father was a career Air Force officer and was stationed in England for 4 years when I was very young. My younger brother was born while my father was stationed in England (in an English hospital, not on base). He derived dual citizenship from this and didn't renounce the English citizenship until he was commissioned an officer in the US Army. So you are saying that, because my brother happened to be born on foreign soil, while his father was serving there under the orders of the Commander in Chief, and that foreign government happened to grant dual citizenship, he is not eligible to be President of the United States?

I am sorry, but that does not meet my reading of the Constitution. Please elaborate.

By the way, my brother is a liberal and I would never vote for him for President - but that is different from being Constitutionally ineligible.

112 posted on 02/17/2016 3:58:50 AM PST by BruceS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: sourcery; Yosemitest
Arrrrgh.

My second post there at #111 was to Yosemitest

I pinged you and GBA and Mollypitcher1 to it

I forgot to quote Yosemitest to make that clear.

Sorry for any confusion!

113 posted on 02/17/2016 4:02:48 AM PST by Democratic-Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: sourcery
Natural born citizenship: A natural born citizen is one whose citizenship is not granted by law or by any act of a sovereign, but inheres naturally in the person from birth according to principles that don't depend on laws or decisions of a sovereign.

By your definition then isn't impossible for a African-American to be a natural-born citizen? In 1856 the Supreme Court ruled that African-Americans, both slave and free, could not be citizens of the U.S. of any kind. It took the 14th Amendment, and the laws passed to enforce it, to grant them citizenship and citizenship at birth. Does that not mean that they have their citizenship granted by law and therefore they cannot be natural-born citizens?

114 posted on 02/17/2016 4:19:46 AM PST by DoodleDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DoodleDawg
Does that not mean that they have their citizenship granted by law and therefore they cannot be natural-born citizens?

No. It does NOT mean that. means it was an Amendment. Not a law.

We The People and the States are involved in Amendments. The 13th/14th/15th were not laws. The fact that they were not mere laws is the entire point that some cannot grasp.

Power flows from ( God ) => People => States => FedGov

Slaves were NOT made whole by Congress, they were made whole by We The People.

This is the clue that should prevent people from looking into statutory law to decide if some candidate is a NBC.

115 posted on 02/17/2016 4:30:53 AM PST by Democratic-Republican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: sourcery

Very thorough. You definitely put a lot of thought and time in preparing this. I’ve only read part of it so far. Bookmarking to finish later.


116 posted on 02/17/2016 4:50:40 AM PST by PJBankard (It is the spirit of the men who leads that gains the victory. - Gen. George Patton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Democratic-Republican; sourcery

Thank you for reminding me of this most excellent thread by sourcery!


117 posted on 02/17/2016 6:24:54 AM PST by GBA (Here in the matrix, life is but a dream.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 110 | View Replies]

To: sourcery

Long post award...


118 posted on 02/17/2016 6:54:57 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Democratic-Republican
YES !
THAT IS CORECT !


There's NOTHING to THINK ABOUT !
The LAW IS THE LAW !

Someone once asked:"Bastard offspring" by definition means the "unfortunate" mother was NOT MARRIED. That statement is IRRELEVANT ! Now for your next IRRELEVANT statement: AGAIN, that "STRAW MAN" IS IRRELEVANT, when it comes to TED CRUZ being a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN of the United States ON THE DAY HE WAS BORN !

You should do better research when it comes to Thomas Jefferson.
Read Thomas Jefferson's own BILL on there "Natural Born Citizen" requirements for the CommonWealth of Virginia: SO there, you have PROOF


1st United States Congress, 21-26 Senators and 59-65 Representatives



119 posted on 02/17/2016 9:45:55 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's SIMPLE ! ... Fight, ... or Die !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies]

To: Yosemitest
You're conclusion seems to be in error:
...and all infants WHERESOEVER BORN,
In Ted's case: IN CANADA
whose father, if living,
Yes, father is living and NOT a citizen
or otherwise, whose mother was, a citizen at the time of their birth,
His Mother might or might not have been a citizen at his birth.
or who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither without father or mother,
shall be deemed CITIZENS of this commonwealth,

You have misstated Jefferson:

"SO there, you have PROOF that Thomas Jefferson, or for that matter, ANY of the authors of the constitution, would view TED CRUZ as a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN of the United States, ON THE DAY HE WAS BORN !
By your own quoted passage, Jefferson said, assuming Ted's father was a living citizen, (or if his father was dead that his mother was a citizen), when Ted was born, then Ted is just a citizen.

Unfortunately, however, not a "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN of the United States" as you want to believe.

Also unfortunate, Ted's dad is still living and he was NOT an American citizen when Ted was born in Canada.

So...THAT would make Ted a Canadian "ON THE DAY HE WAS BORN !".

Just out of curiosity, what do you call the citizenship of someone who was born here in country to American citizen parents?

120 posted on 02/17/2016 10:20:46 AM PST by GBA (Here in the matrix, life is but a dream.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100101-120121-140141-156 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson