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Ohio Senate Considers Limiting Smoking in Cars
WKRD ^ | 02/02/2012 | WKRD

Posted on 02/02/2012 5:20:36 AM PST by TSgt

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — A bill in the Ohio Senate would ban smoking in cars if children under 6 are on board.

The measure's sponsor says the idea is to safeguard youngsters from secondhand smoke. Democratic Sen. Charleta Tavares of Columbus testified Wednesday at a hearing on her bill and said smoke inside cars is especially dangerous because the space makes the smoke much more concentrated.

Multiple news outlets report that Senate Highways and Transportation Committee Chairman Tom Patton questioned how law enforcers would be able to spot that a child is younger than 6, in order to enforce the law. Another Republican, Sen. Frank LaRose, warned that critics are likely to say the proposal infringes on personal freedom.

Tavares says several other states have similar car smoking bans.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: charletatavares; nannystate; smokingban; smokingnazis
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To: Americanexpat

I feel the exact same way. Inside my car, my rules, dont like it? Tough. I’m not playing the game anymore. Go ahead, fine me for smoking in my car, hell put me in jail for using a legal substance.. go ahead.. because the media firestorm that would ensue would be like nothing they ever saw. I’m done playing these PC games because big brother does not like tobacco.


51 posted on 02/03/2012 1:21:59 PM PST by eXe (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: chrisser
"YOU can read, can't you? I DON'T SMOKE!"

YOU and YOUR is used in the general sense, to describe smokers. It's like me saying, "If YOU use cocaine and kill YOURSELF, too bad -- it's YOUR life." Did I really have to explain that to you (the real "you" this time, not the smoker or cocaine user "you")?

The all-caps emphasis was added to -- hopefully -- get the point of personal responsiblity across, but apparently there's no hope for that. None. It's the law making people do it, not the people.

"The unintended consequence was you have to pick up little pieces of paper..."

There's nothing "unintended" about someone deciding to throw a cigarette butt from their car, especially when there's an ash tray in the car. Even if there wasn't an ash tray in the car, it's still up to you (i.e. the smoker) to dispose of it properly.

"Smokers used to exercise personal responsibility as a habit, until it was made illegal and impractical."

Is this anything like guns kill people, people don't kill people? Smokers have always thrown their butts to the ground. (Not YOU you, of course, I'm talking about smokers in general.)

"Glad to see you're taking the moral high ground."

Really, coming from someone who keeps hatching excuses for why folks decide to throw their trash to the ground? You have a right to smoke, but you (the smoker "you") infringes the rights of others -- with potentially hazardous results -- when you (again, the smoker "you") make the decision to throw a cigarette butt out. It really is that simple.

"I guess it'd be crazy to suggest we let smokers have an occassional ash tray without triggering a lawsuit or citation, rather than encouraging them to accidentally burn down their property and that of others?

You can't have an ash tray in your home, car, or on your property? And, are you saying I should have a legitimate concern over those "little pieces of paper" I have to pick up from "unintended consequences?"

If you don't like the laws, fight to have them changed. I don't like being required to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, but it's the law -- and I obey it.

52 posted on 02/03/2012 2:23:30 PM PST by AnglePark
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To: AnglePark
Did you ever change the oil in your own car?

What did you do with the oil 30 40 or 50 years ago? The responsible thing back then was to have a 55 gallon or 33 gallon drum in your garage, and accumulate your used oil until you had enough that a commercial recycler would accept it. Obviously, there would be issues with having that amount of oil in a residence, but that was the responsible thing to do at the time.

Nobody did that of course. Used motor oil was poured down the drain, put in the trash, or just poured on the ground somewhere. That's what my grandparents generation did. That's what my father's generation did. Even I did it when I was a kid. Even after all that was obviously illegal (right around when I was a teen), it continued because there was no practical way for a consumer to dispose of small amounts of oil, and the responsible way to deal with it had it's own set of problems. When I learned what I was doing was polluting, I tried to find some place to take our old oil in vain. Unless we had a drum full of the stuff, nobody wanted to take it even if we paid them.

Now almost nobody improperly disposes of used motor oil. Why? Because just about every auto parts store, and most cities or counties will accept it from consumers in small quantities.

You could say the solution should have been to either stop changing your own oil, or be personally responsible for your old oil, just like you can say the solution is not to smoke or to be personally responsible for your butts.

The reality is, when you make "doing the right thing" easy, you get near 100% compliance. When you make it difficult to impossible, you get almost no compliance.

Pointing this out about motor oil disposal doesn't make me an advocate of polluting the environment. Pointing this out about cigarette butts doesn't make me a proponent of littering. Realizing that human nature is what it is, and that laws and policies should recognize this and work around it is a hallmark of conservatism. The founders didn't pretend we were all angels, they observed human nature and built the Consitution with human nature in mind, wisely realizing that if you either ignore or go against human nature, you are doomed to failure.

Why am I even bothering to have this discussion with you? Because some day, some statist city council person is going to approach you or someone like you and say something like "You know what AnglePark, you pick up a lot of cigarette butts. How about I create department of cigarette butt control, and hire two or three overpaid armed enforcement agents with lifetime pensions? Oh and we'll need a few supervisors paid even more. But you'll have less cigarette butts to pick up. After all, littering is illegal"

And then another level of permanent police state, permanent bureaucracy, and permanent loss of freedom will be layered on top of all the exisiting layers put there for similar reasons, and our taxes will all go up again, never to come down.

I'm hoping that you or someone else reading this will go to that council person and say something like "Shouldn't we eliminate the barriers to smokers responsibly disposing of their cigarette butts before we use the power of the state to fix a situation that didn't exist before - a situation another government agency created? And then, when we've made compliance easy, we can worry about those who won't comply"

Because as night follows day, if we suddenly made it illegal for parts stores to collect used motor oil from consumers, people would start pouring their oil into the environment again, legal or not, responsible or not. And the only thing another enforcement agency that goes against human nature is going to accomplish, is squandering more of our treasure and freedoms while the groundwater still gets polluted by used motor oil.

We have better than 100 years of experience dealing with smokers and accomodating them. Nobody had to force businesses to put ashtrays in, and nobody had to force smokers to use them. Tossing your butts used to make you a paria in the world of smokers. What changed? Government regulation.

7 years ago, we had a smoking room in our building. It had it's own self-contained filtration system and no one outside that room could tell people were smoking inside. Ashtrays were on the walls and everyone used them.

When it was nice weather, smokers went outside where there were ashtrays near the loading dock. Nobody, employee or visitor, tossed their butts on the ground - had they, they would have been ostracized. Now there are cigarette butts all over our parking lot from visitors coming in (I was the last staff person to smoke, and I quit over two years ago), realizing they can't legally walk near the facility )thanks to the signage) with their cigarette, and not having any means to dispose of their butts (thanks to the law). (And in case you haven't noticed, most cars these days don't even have the option of ashtrays if you wanted to special order them - you have to find some sort of half-arsed cupholder-based solution). Cigarette butts are everywhere despite smoking trending down.

Having seen the before and after, it's pretty easy to see the change wasn't caused by a sudden dearth of personal responsibility. People are the same as they've always been. What changed is the recent belief that we could regulate without consequence or consideration of reality.
53 posted on 02/04/2012 6:52:19 AM PST by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: TSgt; Eric Blair 2084; SheLion; Gabz; Hank Kerchief; 383rr; libertarian27; traviskicks; bamahead; ..

Belated Nanny State PING!


54 posted on 03/25/2012 9:08:46 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Occupy DC General Assembly: We are Marxist tools. WE ARE MARXIST TOOLS!)
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To: chrisser; Tolerance Sucks Rocks

An excellent post, although appeals to reason never work with this type.


55 posted on 03/25/2012 9:25:58 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: chrisser
Sadly, the only option is to toss them on the ground.

Flick off the cherry, twist the end to be sure it is out, then place the butt in your pocket, or in the trash. Litter is litter.

56 posted on 03/25/2012 9:31:39 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Thanks for the ping!


57 posted on 03/25/2012 10:37:12 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: TSgt

My live experience is that smokers are generally highly inconsiderate of others.


Wrong! SOME smokers are inconsiderate. Those are the ones you notice.

All the ones that dispose of cigarettes properly or smoke only where it is allowed aren’t even noticed.


58 posted on 03/25/2012 8:54:26 PM PDT by Mears (Alcohol. Tobacco. Firearms. What's not to like?)
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To: traditional1

I never used to litter and in fact loathe it. However, as I am walking to work I walk by the local HS and will throw my but on the ground there. I do it because it is government owned property and they have f’d with smokers enough that I am doing it out of spite. I will not discard any of my butts on anyone’s private property....


59 posted on 03/26/2012 6:25:45 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: TSgt

Yep, I’ll admit that I have changed from being very considerate to simply not giving a damn. Years of abuse by nosey ninnies will do that to a person.


60 posted on 03/26/2012 6:28:02 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: AnglePark

” If you’re in your car the ashtray is the ONLY option, not just “an option.”

What ashtray?


61 posted on 03/26/2012 6:33:35 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: chrisser

Hey, I think you forgot your own tag line! ;-)


62 posted on 03/26/2012 6:44:03 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: CSM
Hey, I think you forgot your own tag line!

I'd have to agree with you on that.

Know how they have those fake babies they give to high school girls to give them a taste of what it's like to have a real one?

I wish there was a fake cigarette that could be given to non-smokers (I wouldn't wish nicotine addiction on anyone) so they could see how their solutions work in today's world - especially in an office environment.

It just doesn't seem to sink in - there are no ashtrays anymore, there are no outdoor trash cans, you can't bring a formerly lit cigarette into an office building even to toss it in the trash without a visit to HR to "get your mind right".

Sadly, no one in any position of authority seems to have a problem with smokers tossing their butts on the ground in comparison to all the more sensible options that have, one way or another, been taken off the table.
63 posted on 03/26/2012 8:42:33 AM PDT by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: dforest
“are you kidding me, we don’t have the time or inclination to pay attention to what everyone is doing in their car, our time is spent on crimes”

Whoever said that will be called in tomorrow and reminded that their time is supposed to be spent on property confiscation, incarceration and revenue enhancement.

64 posted on 03/26/2012 5:02:01 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: TSgt
In fact, every smoker I see while driving always disposes of their cigarette out the window.

That would probably change if there were even one place one could smoke except in their car.

Alas!

65 posted on 03/26/2012 5:05:59 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: SgtHooper
And it’s just being a slob to toss anything on the ground rather than the trash can.

How long has it been since you've seen a public ashtray? Been a long, long time for me.

66 posted on 03/26/2012 5:13:03 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: AnglePark

Find me a car or a building or a street with an ashtray and I will buy you a steak, or a tofuburger, whichever is your preference.


67 posted on 03/26/2012 5:16:20 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: AnglePark
I've never seen a Big Mac wrapper or coffee cup burn thousands of acres of land, destroying property and lives along the way.

I have. Those things are known as "accelerants" or"fuel".

68 posted on 03/26/2012 5:24:06 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: AnglePark
Good grief -- personal responsibility no longer exists in this country.

You are correct. All behavior is mandated by the government, which is fine with you, as long as you agree with the mandate. What happens when you don't agree with the mandate?

69 posted on 03/26/2012 5:28:50 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: TSgt

I have 600 foot on the road. I cut grass with my garden tractor...I have had to pick up styrofoam, broken glass, beer/pop cans and one time a pair of ladies underwear and a used condom in my driveway...never had to get off my tractor to pick up a cigarette butt. You seem to get offended very easy. I have seen birds picking away at a filter on a cigarette butt for their nests....The crap that people throw out their window, ciggy’s is low on the list and cannot even see them in the grass....No flame war, just the facts....


70 posted on 03/26/2012 5:32:33 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: AnglePark; chrisser
If reason ruled, none of us would be engaged in this discussion. Sadly, hysteria prevails.

I'm considering running for public office on the platform of making denigration of tobacco smokers a hate crime, and the consumption of tofu a real crime.

71 posted on 03/26/2012 5:36:37 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: goat granny

Good for you, they are all over where I live.

I don’t get offended easy, I just know the facts.


72 posted on 03/26/2012 5:52:25 PM PDT by TSgt (Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.)
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To: Mich Patriot

What they get away with doing to one group they hate, they will “progress” to do to another group they hate. Sooner or later, they will nab everyone in their net.

Things global elitists currently hate:

Meat eaters
Rural people
fatties
soda drinkers
cigar smokers, pipe smokers
sugar eaters
raw milk drinkers
organic farmers
vitamin users
non-state people who feed and help the homeless
Christians
Jews
Whites
cash users
gold and silver owners


73 posted on 03/26/2012 6:40:22 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: elkfersupper

It really is scary how gubmint social engineering through taxpayer funded PSAs can change and mold peoples opinions.

When I used to smoke, I would never smoke in my car with my kids. I didn’t need a law. I’ll say it again...

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to sign one of 2 stupid nanny state laws:

Ban smoking in cars with children or
Ban smoking in bars with fat drunk adults

I would choose the former. But this is all really about Big Pharma funded front groups like ACS, ALA, CTFK doing their benefactors bidding. Coercing people to quit smoking and buy nicotine replacement gums, patches for $50.

They don’t care about the chilruns. It’s about the money.


74 posted on 03/26/2012 8:30:36 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer to drink a bunch of them. Stay thirsty my FRiends)
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To: TSgt

See post above. It’s my Public Service Announcement to a fellow conservative.


75 posted on 03/26/2012 8:41:58 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer to drink a bunch of them. Stay thirsty my FRiends)
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To: TSgt

What would really be cool is if Ohio decided to limit their Senate instead.


76 posted on 03/26/2012 9:08:36 PM PDT by mowowie
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