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In July 1996, Mitt Romney helped locate the missing teenage daughter of a partner at Bain Capital.
PolitiFact ^

Posted on 02/02/2012 4:17:25 PM PST by fred4prez

"In July 1996, the 14-year-old daughter of Robert Gay, a partner at Bain Capital, had disappeared," the story reads. "She had attended a rave party in New York City and gotten high on ecstasy. Three days later, her distraught father had no idea where she was. Romney took immediate action. He closed down the entire firm and asked all 30 partners and employees to fly to New York to help find Gay’s daughter. Romney set up a command center at the LaGuardia Marriott and hired a private detective firm to assist with the search. He established a toll-free number for tips, coordinating the effort with the NYPD, and went through his Rolodex and called everyone Bain did business with in New York and asked them to help find his friend’s missing daughter. Romney’s accountants at Price Waterhouse Cooper put up posters on street poles, while cashiers at a pharmacy owned by Bain put fliers in the bag of every shopper. Romney and the other Bain employees scoured every part of New York and talked with everyone they could – prostitutes, drug addicts – anyone.

"That day, their hunt made the evening news, which featured photos of the girl and the Bain employees searching for her. As a result, a teenage boy phoned in, asked if there was a reward, and then hung up abruptly. The NYPD traced the call to a home in New Jersey, where they found the girl in the basement, shivering and experiencing withdrawal symptoms from a massive ecstasy dose. Doctors later said the girl might not have survived another day. Romney’s former partner credits Mitt Romney with saving his daughter’s life, saying, ‘It was the most amazing thing, and I’ll never forget this to the day I die.’

(Excerpt) Read more at politifact.com ...


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To: Scoutmaster
I think Flycatcher is saying that the very puffed up "Romney did everything, right down to personally making the phone calls to everyone Bain did business with in New York" piece is from a Chain e-Mail, not that the base substance of the story (that Bain helped find the missing daughter of a Bain partner) is true.

Oh?

Like "Mitt single handedly saved the Utah Olympics"?

251 posted on 02/03/2012 4:19:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: fred4prez
http://www.snopes.com/politics/romney/search.asp
 
 
 
 
Claim: Mitt Romney ASSISTED in the search for his business partner's missing daughter.
 
 
 TRUE
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"I mean, money is just money."
 
 
 
"I'm Mitt Romney; and I approve this message."

252 posted on 02/03/2012 4:34:37 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

I wish that Mitt would search for TRUTH; the same way he did for Ms. Gay.

I mean, a soul is just a soul.

And MORMONism is a heresy.


253 posted on 02/03/2012 4:37:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
"I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there. If it needs a repair , I'll fix it," he said. "I'm not concerned about the very rich.... I'm concerned about the very heart of America, the 90 to 95 percent of Americans who right now are struggling."

(I guess a Bain partner is just plain rich: not VERY rich.

254 posted on 02/03/2012 4:40:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Scoutmaster

Im not putting him on a pedestal, Im saying that it was good he did this, and we dont need to qualify everything. If Clinton worked at a soup kitchen, Id say good for him.

That is very different from using law to give people free money from someone else. Im not gonna sit around and be paranoid.

And we havent established anything. A bunch of people who dont like Mitt and really dont like Mormonism have said that they dont think it is the real story, but they havent proven anything.


255 posted on 02/03/2012 5:14:46 AM PST by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: tinamina

Yes and yes.
Her father a friend of Romney’s was also in the highest of the high as is Romney in lds.


256 posted on 02/03/2012 6:15:55 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: fred4prez

Maybe the next President should appoint Romney to coordinate federal-level missing persons searches.


257 posted on 02/03/2012 6:19:41 AM PST by Sloth (If a tax break counts as "spending" then every time I don't rob a bank should be a "deposit.")
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To: buwaya
It might serve you before you defend mormonISM to learn about mormonISM.

mormonISM teaches that Catholics and Protestants are whores of Babylon and an abomination.

mormonISM teaches that their god was once a man.

mormonISM teaches that Mary had sex with their god.

There is zero about mormonISM that is Christian.

They deny the Biblical God.

mormonISM can call themselves Christian it does not make it so, anymore than living in a garage makes one a car.

258 posted on 02/03/2012 6:23:51 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: buwaya; moder_ator

“The data is independent of their delusions.”

If you believe that, you are delusional.

“I would also quote a Soviet or Nazi source, if the information was interesting.”

Doesn’t surprise me at all. A Mitt Pimp will claim all kinds of things, regardless of source.


259 posted on 02/03/2012 6:53:43 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Proud RINOmney Denialist since 2007!)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

-“I would also quote a Soviet or Nazi source, if the information was interesting.”

-—Doesn’t surprise me at all. A Mitt Pimp will claim all kinds of things, regardless of source.

I urge you to think this through. Sit down and consider the concept, and imagine scenarios wherein you require information.

If you require a jog to your imagination, consider what sources Robert Conquest consulted.


260 posted on 02/03/2012 8:20:54 AM PST by buwaya
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To: svcw

I don’t see what the nature of Mormonism has to do with electing one; if a Buddhist were running I doubt there would be as many objections. But anyway, back to the salt mines -

mormonISM teaches that Catholics and Protestants are whores of Babylon and an abomination.

-— And plenty of Protestant churches have (or until very recently had) the same attitude towards Catholicism.

mormonISM teaches that their god was once a man.

-— And this is a concept also common in Christian heresies.

mormonISM teaches that Mary had sex with their god.

-— An this is a humdrum heretical concept.

There is zero about mormonISM that is Christian.
They deny the Biblical God.

-— I have been often told that Catholics deny the Biblical God, and worse, are not Christian. Oh well, you can’t please everyone.

mormonISM can call themselves Christian it does not make it so, anymore than living in a garage makes one a car.

-— And anyone can claim anything they like about their religion, it being their religion and their words.

The only thing that is clear to me, as a Catholic, is that they are heretics just as mistaken as Calvinists or Baptists or Methodists or Unitarians. We don’t go about burning that lot anymore, and are actually rather civil to them, all in all, so I don’t see why we shouldn’t be as civil to Mormons.


261 posted on 02/03/2012 8:33:07 AM PST by buwaya
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To: Elsie

And MORMONism is a heresy.

- So it is, and from a Catholics point of view most of the rest of the country are heretics also, or heathens or pagans. Still, we do try to get along.


262 posted on 02/03/2012 8:35:20 AM PST by buwaya
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To: nicmarlo

He did.


263 posted on 02/03/2012 8:52:08 AM PST by CatherineofAragon (I can haz Romney's defeat?)
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To: buwaya; Elsie
And MORMONism is a heresy.

- So it is, and from a Catholics point of view most of the rest of the country are heretics also, or heathens or pagans. Still, we do try to get along.


No, not just from a Catholic's point of view, but from every Christian's point of view.

All christian sects, Protestant or Catholic declare Mormonism to be a cult.
264 posted on 02/03/2012 8:59:57 AM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: SoConPubbie

The simple truth of it is that if you call yourself Christian and are not Catholic, then you are a heretic.

Mormon, Jehovahs witness, Copt, it doesn’t matter.


265 posted on 02/03/2012 9:04:17 AM PST by buwaya
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To: buwaya

Buddhist do not try and pass themselves off as Christians.
Romney is who he is BECAUSE of his mormonISM, not in spite of it.
As I said you need to learn about mormonISM before you defend it.
Catholics and Protestants believe in the Divinity of God, mormonISM does not.
I know of not one single Christian who believes God was once a man.
No one has burned a mormon, it is stupid argument on your part.
I will leave you with this, you want to pimp Romney, defending mormonISM go right ahead, just remember that mormonISM teaches you are whore of Babylon, that’s what they think of you as (an alleged) Catholic.


266 posted on 02/03/2012 9:06:06 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: buwaya
The simple truth of it is that if you call yourself Christian and are not Catholic, then you are a heretic.

Mormon, Jehovahs witness, Copt, it doesn’t matter.


Could be true, I'm not a catholic.

But that does not remove the fact that all Christian sects regard Mormonism as a cult because of their belief system as has been documented over and over and over again on FreeRepublic.

They do not believe in the God of the Bible and their founder declared that all other Christian sects were basically damned (my paraphrasing).
267 posted on 02/03/2012 9:11:45 AM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: buwaya
The simple truth of it is that if you call yourself Christian and are not Catholic, then you are a heretic.

Huh? I'll have to let my cousin, the Nun that, she considers herself a Christian. In fact she just had a celebration fifty years in her order, nice party. As a side note she refers to herself first as a Christian who also happens to be Catholic. I am sure she will love to hear your take on the whole thing. I have on my Dad's side uncles, aunts, and cousins galore and they ALL say they are Christian first then Catholic, I'll let them know as well. Pretty sure they will be surprised, then laugh.

268 posted on 02/03/2012 9:18:21 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: buwaya

“The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism as valid because, although Mormons and Catholics use the same words, those words have completely unrelated meanings for each religion. The Mormon’s very concept of God is infinitely different from that of Christians—even though they call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Mormons believe that God is only one of many gods who were once men and that each of us in turn can become what God is now. This process of men becoming gods is said to go back infinitely. But of course none of these gods can be infinite if they are multiple and had a beginning and are actually human beings. In Mormons’ view, both Jesus and the Father are what we would call glorified creatures.

They also believe that Jesus came into existence after the Father, and that the Father and the Son are not one in being. Thus, although they use the phrase “the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” in their usage this phrase takes on a meaning that is actually polytheistic and pagan rather than trinitarian.

For an in-depth look at this, see the books Inside Mormonism and When Mormons Call by Isaiah Bennett, available from Catholic Answers. For a shorter but equally incisive take, see Fr. Brian Harrison’s two-part series on Mormonism in the April and May-June 2003 issues of This Rock.”


269 posted on 02/03/2012 9:40:38 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: buwaya

Here is something from the Catholic view of Mormonism that addresses that pretty clearly.

“Mormonism itself is a belief system that would reduce the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from being the three Persons of the one, true, and infinite God to being three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos.

Mormonism teaches that human beings may, by practicing the tenets of its faith, become gods and goddesses themselves, with their own planets full of people worshiping them.

While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups.”


270 posted on 02/03/2012 9:43:30 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: Raider Sam
And we havent established anything. A bunch of people who dont like Mitt and really dont like Mormonism have said that they dont think it is the real story, but they havent proven anything.

RS, I suspect nobody's ever going to be able to disprove this "Mitt Romney is Superman" story to you, even though it didn't pass the smell test. Do I believe Romney played a part in doing something good? Yes? Do I believe *he* shut down Bain, and *he* called all of Bain's contacts in NYC? No. That with all of those Bain partners there from across the U.S., that Romney's the only one who se up the LaGuardia command center and hired the PI firm? No. That Price Waterhouse Cooper were Romney's accountants? No, they were Bain's.

Somebody's rewritten the story of a group effort to give Romney all of the credit for everything. The question is, wasn't he satisfied with being a part of something good? Or was it his campaign that needed to make him the sole and absolute hero? Or a misguided supporter?

Because it didn't happen the way somebody's trying to portray it now.

Not when you read the article above rationally (do you realize how many hundreds of contacts Bain has in NYC? And Romney's the person who called them? At five minutes a call, it would have taken him weeks. And Romney shut down Bain? Puhleeze. In the beginning I said that a Board must have gotten involved and *bingo,* the article from the Globe that is contemporary to the event says that Romney called the other Managing Directors and they made the decision to shut down Bain and look for the girl.

So you can believe the Boston Globe story, which is both rational and was written at the time of the incident. A large firm devoting its resources. A decision made by all of the Managing Directors. Various talented professionals involved in this.

Or you can believe a puff piece written now that Romney's running for President. Something to make it look as if he ran into the cockpit of a failing jet, set it on autopilot, parachuted to the runway, operating the paving machine and extended the runway as necessary for a runaway jet, designed and built a jet pack to fly back into the jet, climbing in through a toilet hatch, reading bedtime stories to the children to calm them, before landing the plane safely although he had a 3" sliver of plexiglass imbedded in each eye - all to deliver news of the 9/11 attacks, which those in Washington, D.C. ignored. When the true story may have been that the flight attendant came back and said: We have a broken button on one of our consoles; does anyone have a paper clip we can use to fix it? And Mitt offered up a paper clip. Nay. Three paper clips, in three sizes.

So, you've read the Globe article, I assume you have some idea about how large, national, private equity firms work with partnership ownership work. And you think the posted article may be the real story, eh?

We'll have to respectfully disagree. And I think Romney did a good thing by calling the other Managing Directors of Bain. And by helping out.

271 posted on 02/03/2012 9:50:22 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Yaelle

Yaelle, everyone has a conscience given to them by God, so that we can intuitively know right from wrong. I don’t believe liberals who support abortion truly think, deep down and without a single qualm, that they’re doing the right thing. If they did, they wouldn’t use neat little euphemisms like “pro-choice” instead of “pro-abortion.” And they wouldn’t claim that Planned Parenthood is mainly about womens’ health services; they know abortion is wrong.

As for Romney, I read an article which claims that he may have been pro-life, but told his church he would support abortion in MA. If this is true, it’s even worse, since it says he will betray his deepest principles for political gain. I personally don’t think he has any principles. I’ve watched the man on the national stage for months now, and there is something about him that makes my skin crawl—literally. He hasn’t stopped lying since he began his campaign; he even lied about his own NAME in a debate. He is visibly and plainly insincere, puffed-up, phony, self-important, and calculating. I’m always shocked when people don’t see it.


272 posted on 02/03/2012 10:29:05 AM PST by CatherineofAragon (I can haz Romney's defeat?)
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To: buwaya
...so I don’t see why we shouldn’t be as civil to Mormons.

Perhaps a bit of EDUCATION would permit you to SEE a little bit more clearly:

 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.


(I'm sure in reads the same in a CATHOLIC bible...)

273 posted on 02/03/2012 10:46:37 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: buwaya
It might serve you before you defend mormonISM to learn about mormonISM.

Like what YOUR chosen religion has to say about it...

274 posted on 02/03/2012 10:49:10 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: buwaya
The simple truth of it is that if you call yourself Christian and are not Catholic, then you are a heretic.

Are you SURE that you are a Catholic??


John 6:28-29 (niv)

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 


275 posted on 02/03/2012 10:51:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: ansel12

It is CLEAR to me, that SOMEone wants to get a C vs P fight going, so that the MORMONs can slink away...


276 posted on 02/03/2012 10:52:59 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw

“Romney is who he is BECAUSE of his mormonISM”

And this is exactly what lots of people say about Jews and Chinese (in places where they are relevant). I see it as a symptom of envy.

“I know of not one single Christian who believes God was once a man”

Lots of Unitarians do, just to select one popular Protestant sect. This point was the source of plenty of historical heresies as well.

“No one has burned a mormon, it is stupid argument on your part.”

My point was we all used to violently disagree, but now we try to get along. We should also get along with Mormons.

“just remember that mormonISM teaches you are whore of Babylon, “

Plenty of Protestant groups consider the Catholic Church “the whore of Babylon”. That was the mainstream view of most of them until just recently. What did I say about burning ?


277 posted on 02/03/2012 11:11:40 AM PST by buwaya
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To: svcw

I think that we have a comprehension problem here.

The set of Christian contains the subset Catholic.

A Catholic says that anyone in the Christian set that is not in the Catholic subset is a heretic.

A heretic is a Christian, just one with unsound doctrines, in the view of the Catholic church.


278 posted on 02/03/2012 11:14:57 AM PST by buwaya
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To: Elsie

Certainly.

We have a lot of trenchant things to say about Protestants as well.

Such as the literal reading of the Bible, or the pernicious concept of predestination, among so many.


279 posted on 02/03/2012 11:16:41 AM PST by buwaya
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To: Scoutmaster

Did they find the girl? Yes. Did he use his resources? Yes. Are you so afraid of Romney that you have to tarnish this good deed? Yes.


280 posted on 02/03/2012 11:19:28 AM PST by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: ansel12

And the answer is that they are heretical - as they are.

Of course they are blasphemous, etc.

And I will note that this statement does not set up a rating system of one heresy against another, nor does it exclude the possibility of other Christian groups with beliefs even more outre.

My point is -so what ? You are all heretics with unsound doctrines. We get along, more or less, why shouldn’t we get along with Mormons ?


281 posted on 02/03/2012 11:30:06 AM PST by buwaya
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To: ansel12

I still don’t understand what you are after here.
I have never stated that the Mormons weren’t heretical.
The beliefs stated below are NOT unusual among Christian heresies, in historical fact.
I certainly do not want to be a Mormon !
I don’t want to be a Jehovah’s Witness either.

But none of these things have a bearing on who I want to vote into office, and I say that if we are willing to vote for a Catholic or Episcopalian or Baptist or a Jew or a Sikh, we should be indifferent if the candidate is a Mormon.


282 posted on 02/03/2012 11:37:29 AM PST by buwaya
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To: Elsie

I am saying that if P is willing to tolerate C, and C tolerate P, and both tolerate J, B, H, and etc., then C and P should be willing to tolerate M.

C and P have a long and troubled history, If we can get over that then we can and should get over our disagreements with M.


283 posted on 02/03/2012 11:41:17 AM PST by buwaya
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To: Elsie

Er, so then Mormons aren’t fit for public office because of religious differences ? The Jews are completely out of luck then I suppose.

And EVERY point in your selective list can be and has been used in religious controversies among Christian sects.


284 posted on 02/03/2012 11:46:32 AM PST by buwaya
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To: buwaya
A heretic is a Christian, just one with unsound doctrines, in the view of the Catholic church.

Then why do you constantly keep calling Mormons heretic, which the Catholic church says they are not?

285 posted on 02/03/2012 11:56:13 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: buwaya

Apparently you did not read what I wrote, so I am repeating it:
YOU SAID: The simple truth of it is that if you call yourself Christian and are not Catholic, then you are a heretic.

I REPLIED: Huh? I’ll have to let my cousin, the Nun that, she considers herself a Christian. In fact she just had a celebration fifty years in her order, nice party. As a side note she refers to herself first as a Christian who also happens to be Catholic. I am sure she will love to hear your take on the whole thing. I have on my Dad’s side uncles, aunts, and cousins galore and they ALL say they are Christian first then Catholic, I’ll let them know as well. Pretty sure they will be surprised, then laugh.


286 posted on 02/03/2012 11:58:06 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: buwaya

Just saw this post, if you really beleive that Unitarian are in away related to Christianity you are more delusional than I thought.


287 posted on 02/03/2012 12:01:10 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: buwaya

Burning - post #261


288 posted on 02/03/2012 12:02:39 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: svcw

Your cousin (and my aunt) are nuns.

They are Christian
They are Catholic
They are not heretics

I worked for a Mennonite
He is a Christian
He is not a Catholic
He is a heretic


289 posted on 02/03/2012 12:02:39 PM PST by buwaya
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To: ansel12

Who says they dont call them heretics ? Of course they are; as heretical as Albigensians or Bogomils.


290 posted on 02/03/2012 12:05:44 PM PST by buwaya
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To: svcw

They say they are Christian.

If you want to write the definition to exclude them, feel free to do so, but that is a quixotic undertaking. Christianity as a concept is broad and fuzzy. There are “sort of” Christians all over.


291 posted on 02/03/2012 12:09:33 PM PST by buwaya
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To: buwaya

The Catholic church says that Mormons are not Christian, you use the word heretic to describe Christians, something is not adding up. Not only do you seem confused, you are doing a pretty good job of muddling through every phony Romney and Mormon defense that you can muster, but it is all a weird mishmash of gibberish and far flung, evasive, slippery, unfocused nonsense.

“Cardinal” Joseph Ratzinger, The Meaning of Christian Brotherhood, pp. 87-88: “The difficulty in the way of giving an answer is a profound one. Ultimately it is due to the fact that there is no appropriate category in Catholic thought for the phenomenon of Protestantism today (one could say the same of the relationship to the separated churches of the East). It is obvious that the old category of ‘heresy’ is no longer of any value. Heresy, for Scripture and the early Church, includes the idea of a personal decision against the unity of the Church, and heresy’s characteristic is pertinacia, the obstinacy of him who persists in his own private way. This, however, cannot be regarded as an appropriate description of the spiritual situation of the Protestant Christian. In the course of a now centuries-old history, Protestantism has made an important contribution to the realization of Christian faith, fulfilling a positive function in the development of the Christian message and, above all, often giving rise to a sincere and profound faith in the individual non-Catholic Christian, whose separation from the Catholic affirmation has nothing to do with the pertinacia characteristic of heresy. Perhaps we may here invert a saying of St. Augustine’s: that an old schism becomes a heresy. The very passage of time alters the character of a division, so that an old division is something essentially different from a new one. Something that was once rightly condemned as heresy cannot later simply become true, but it can gradually develop its own positive ecclesial nature, with which the individual is presented as his church and in which he lives as a believer, not as a heretic. This organization of one group, however, ultimately has an effect on the whole. The conclusion is inescapable, then: Protestantism today is something different from heresy in the traditional sense, a phenomenon whose true theological place has not yet been determined.”


292 posted on 02/03/2012 12:20:05 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: svcw

My “what did I say about burning?” was rhetorical.

The point is that we no longer fight or persecute each other, or even hold such religious tests for our secular leaders. We no longer “burn” each other. Hence we should not “burn” Mormons.


293 posted on 02/03/2012 12:20:48 PM PST by buwaya
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To: Scoutmaster
The contemporaneous article you linked never mentions Mitt Romney's name a single time. It says the "partners" at Bain did the job - and then it certainly sounds as if Bain leaned on those with whom it did business or in whom it invested to get the rest done (which I probably would have done as well). Leaned on others - not that Mitt or Bain partners were out doing these things personally

The job of a CEO is to make things happen, especially when there is an unexpected crisis. The fact that this CEO's name didn't appear in a contemporaneous account is of no significance.

The author of the NYT article was remiss in not checking who was CEO of Bain. If she had, it might have clicked — Oh, that guy. Didn't he run against Ted Kennedy a couple of years ago? — and the unessential detail would have enhanced her story.

294 posted on 02/03/2012 12:25:29 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: ansel12

That is the private view (and people are permitted to have private views in the Church)of our present Pope. It is also in fact my personal view. He is a brilliant and perceptive man, of enormous learning and compassion.

This is not doctrine however.

If he issues a decree (such as an encyclical) to this effect in his capacity as Pope then it would become doctrine.


295 posted on 02/03/2012 12:28:17 PM PST by buwaya
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To: buwaya
They say they are Christian.

Pope John Paul II says they aren't, but having seen many Catholics on Mormon threads, it seems that he and Catholic teachings don't carry much weight among pro-Mormon Catholics, who first loudly announce that they are Catholic, and then proceed to fight like tigers for Mormonism as a Christian church.

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296 posted on 02/03/2012 12:29:00 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: ansel12

Like I said before, this is a response to the post-death baptisms carried out by the Mormon church. If any Mormon baptism is held to be valid then all those spurious (in the eyes of the Church) post-death baptisms risk the implication of validity. This is an inter-church spat.

One of these days (or knowing how this goes, one of these centuries) this may get changed.

It does not get to the crux of my point - It does not matter what Mormon doctrine is; we tolerate other politicians, leaders, business partners, and etc., of various faiths in spite of extreme differences and our often bloody histories. Mormons should be no exception.


297 posted on 02/03/2012 12:38:22 PM PST by buwaya
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To: buwaya
Who says they dont call them heretics ?

The Catholic church says that Mormons are not Christian, you use the word heretic to describe Christians, something is not adding up.

298 posted on 02/03/2012 12:38:49 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: buwaya

Ok, here is where we are.
You defend mormonISM and call Christians heretics.
You pimp Romney and call people who do not support him anti-mormon.
You say you will support Romney over BHO even thought they are the same.
You say you are Catholic yet..........
Sorry I do not beleive you any longer.
Based on all you have posted, and all of your replies on this thread......I would say you have lying for the Lord down pat. Yep, you really did well on that lesson about answering questions that should have been answered. A+


299 posted on 02/03/2012 12:57:44 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: buwaya
Like I said before, this is a response to the post-death baptisms carried out by the Mormon church. If any Mormon baptism is held to be valid then all those spurious (in the eyes of the Church) post-death baptisms risk the implication of validity. This is an inter-church spat.

You are Catholic?

Why would you make up such a false and insulting, and demeaning tale for the Catholic church, and Pope John Paul II?

300 posted on 02/03/2012 1:00:10 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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