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Ron Paul Tells CNN’s Piers Morgan Only “Honest Rape” Warrants An Abortion. (Honest Rape?)
Hinterland Gazette ^

Posted on 02/05/2012 6:59:20 PM PST by mnehring

Edited on 02/05/2012 7:06:55 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

During an appearance on CNN’s Piers Morgan, GOP presidential hopeful Ron Paul was asked whether as a man with daughters and granddaughters, Rep. Paul (R-TX) thinks that abortion is warranted if a woman has been impregnated by a rapist.

“If it’s an honest rape,” Paul replied, “that individual should go immediately to the emergency room, I would give them a shot of estrogen.” He claimed, however, that if a woman is “seven months pregnant” and says that she was raped, “It’s a little bit of a different story.” Source


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: abortion; moralabsolutes; prolife; rape; rino; ronpaul
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To: Grunthor; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Well, there would have to be more than just her say-so that she was raped.

What would that be? Be specific.

I notice you STILL refuse to answer my other question, if YOU are accused of rape, which of YOUR CHILDREN deserve to die?

Are there OTHER non-capital crimes where you think the criminal's children should be put to death?

301 posted on 02/07/2012 4:27:34 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: trisham

“Do you believe in the concept of free will?”

Frankly I believe that is what I have been talking about here for two days, of course I do.

Do you?


302 posted on 02/07/2012 5:56:26 PM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: wagglebee

“What would that be? Be specific.”

Physical evidence in the vaginal region. Bruises, contusions, cuts, scrapes, tears. Perhaps ligature marks around the wrist or ankle.

Do I need to paint you a more in depth picture than that?

“I notice you STILL refuse to answer my other question, if YOU are accused of rape, which of YOUR CHILDREN deserve to die?”

Your question is a straw-man....a red-herring. Nowhere on this thread or any other have I suggested that there needed to be a suspect either identified or in custody. Do you believe that the criminal must be known for there to have been a crime comitted?

Your final question to me is just frankly, well stupid and I won’t answer it.


303 posted on 02/07/2012 6:01:20 PM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: surroundedbyblue; Grunthor

SurroundedbyBlue, I am so glad you brought up Rebecca! I am sure you have heard of Juda Myers too. http://www.choices4life.org/ Her mother was attacked by 8 men.

Grunthor, I do hope you check out these links and stories that SurroundbyBlue and I have provided. I once held that position you did. I had already changed my views once I read Rebecca Kiessling’s story but her testimony just sealed that conviction even moreso. Her page has many stories of others who suffered rape or discovered they were born of rape. I pray these accounts soften your heart.

The famous Gospel singer Ethel Waters was born of rape (her mother was around 12 or 13). There’s Fox News correspondant Kelly Wright who told about his own conception from rape. SurroundedbyBlue (or anyone else), do you know of any other people who have shared stories?

The book Victims and Victors tells about women who were raped and got pregnant and their experiences in both having the baby or their experiences of aborting. It dispels many myths about women who become pregnant of rape. http://afterabortion.org/2005/victims-and-victors-speaking-out-about-their-pregnancies-abortions-and-children-resulting-from-sexual-assault/

I remember hearing from one woman that the abortion “was like a second rape” or the other woman who said, “I could forgive the rapist for the rape but couldn’t forgive myself for the abortion”.

One story that touched me was the young teenage girl who had been gangraped in England. She said her mother was the only one who supported giving the baby life. When she saw the baby on the ultrasound, she said an overwhelming feeling of fierce protection for that baby overtook her. Her story is on Rebecca Kiessling’s website.

Lee Ezell’s story tells of how she was raped, chose to give birth and made an adoption plan. The daughter, Julie, found her later and they reunited. Julie’s husband thanked Lee for “choosing life ....for giving me my wife, Julie”. http://leeezellstory.com/

I know someone personally who was born of rape. She’s not famous and she’s like me....a wife and mom who adores her family. I see her husband, children and grandchildren and think of a whole family line gone had she been given the death penalty for just merely committing the “crime” of being conceived.

I once was for “exceptions” at one time in my life but I am a daughter of someone who was adopted. I am so grateful that she was allowed life and I am so grateful for MY life as well as my sister’s, brother’s, nieces’, nephews’ and my children’s lives. I don’t know the circumstances of my mother’s conception. After I no longer believed in this, it hit me that I could have been arguing FOR my own mother’s death by dismemberment.


304 posted on 02/07/2012 6:41:42 PM PST by Inclines to the Right (www.maafa21.com)
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To: Inclines to the Right

I’ve read many of the same accounts as you. I, too, have read of women who say that they could recover from the rape & move on, but they cannot recover from the abortion.

I hope these stories open hearts & minds to what they are really doing when they advocate for the rape exception.

One thing that has really struck me is the generational effects of abortion. When a child is terminated in the womb, not only are they denied life, but all of their descendants. How many people have we truly lost after aborting 54 million Americans over the last 38 years??? Mind boggling!


305 posted on 02/07/2012 6:53:54 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Yes, SBB, I think about that generational loss as well!


306 posted on 02/07/2012 7:19:32 PM PST by Inclines to the Right (www.maafa21.com)
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To: mnehring

no, he’s a cynical physician who has seen it all.

Make “rape” the reason for an abortion, and every woman who wants an abortion will claim rape.

Stranger rape is rape. Rape with threats or violence is rape.

Being given the date rape drug and having intercourse is rape.

Going to a party, flirting with a guy, going home with him and then claiming he raped you is just a mistake.


307 posted on 02/07/2012 7:57:22 PM PST by LadyDoc
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To: Grunthor; xzins; wagglebee
I volunteered at a Crisis Pregnancy Center for a number of years counseling both women in unplanned pregnancies and those who were post-abortion. Any woman who undergoes an abortion is ALSO a victim. They may not think that at first, maybe not for a long time, but, eventually, they come to realize that they had been sold a bill of goods. They were told, "it's only a blob of tissue"; "abortion will solve your problem"; "plenty of women do this"; etc. But, not until years later do they realize that something within them also died that day, part of their soul.

Many post abortion women go through denial but it is something that NEVER goes away, it is always there. Alcohol, drugs, sex, nothing makes that guilt go away. Some women try suicide, some try to get pregnant again (an atonement baby), some bury themselves in self-destructive relationships or inappropriate ones. Until a woman "comes clean", which is dealing with what she did, why she did it, who else was involved, deals with her anger, her guilt, her self-hatred and accepts the humanity of her child and allows herself to mourn and forgive, she will never heal.

Abortion is a terrible scar on our country. It has destroyed whole families and millions of women AND men are the walking wounded. I pray that abortion, one day, will not have to be outlawed because it will be unthinkable. Regardless of how a woman gets pregnant, that child is part of her and she will always live with the consequences of what she did about it. Pregnancy rarely results from rape, but when it does, abortion is the LAST thing this traumatized woman needs. She needs attention, love, acceptance, emotional support and people with her who will walk with her through the healing process.

Even a woman who is raped and gets pregnant, knows that the child is half hers. I personally have known both women who have gone through with the pregnancy and those who abort after rape. By far, those that go through with the pregnancy and either keep the child or give it up for adoption are the healthier emotionally of the two. Women who abort after rape go through two traumas. One the rape, and two, the abortion. The guilt and loss is the same.

Allowing abortion for exceptions other than the woman's immediate loss of life (i.e.; ectopic pregnancy) sends the message that the child is not to be considered. If the condition of how the pregnancy happened is allowed to determine the legality, then the right to life of the human being is secondary and it CANNNOT be. To do so, as it already has, leads to the slippery slope we are already on and why there are over one million abortions every year, child abuse up 2000%, and euthanasia for the sick and elderly right around the corner. I pray everyone gives this serious thought. ALL life is precious to the one who creates all life and NO life is a mistake.

308 posted on 02/07/2012 10:20:16 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: Grunthor
“who am I to force a rape victim to do anything?”

I understand your point, and my argument used to be "the semen of the rape victim is the continuing assault of the rapist. And that's true. Were that able to be flushed prior to any conception, then I'm absolutely in favor of doing all in our power to get that presence out of the victim before any conception takes place. That is not impossible given the nature of fertilization in the human species.

However, once there is a union between sperm and egg, then we are talking about life. It is a separate life, and it is undeniably human life and not any other kind.

For the sake of protecting humanity from the demons that beset us with eugenics, euthanasia, cloning, and population control, we MUST preserve God's law that life is sacred.

As for the ark carrying that child, the woman, I would keep pushing the envelope of how soon a child can viably be delivered, and I would then attempt to deliver that child as soon as possible. The ark could then decide to adopt the baby out or raise it.

But that is the difference between choosing to dismember a human without trial and mercy. I truly believe that in the long run we do the ark a greater service with that non-deadly outcome than if she has memories of brutality and destruction.

309 posted on 02/08/2012 5:37:01 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: Grunthor; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
Physical evidence in the vaginal region. Bruises, contusions, cuts, scrapes, tears. Perhaps ligature marks around the wrist or ankle.

Do I need to paint you a more in depth picture than that?

So, violent rape that is immediately reported and a rape kit done would be considered rape, but women who didn't report the rape or women who were victims of non-violent "date rape" would be deemed to not have been raped?

Your question is a straw-man....a red-herring. Nowhere on this thread or any other have I suggested that there needed to be a suspect either identified or in custody. Do you believe that the criminal must be known for there to have been a crime comitted?

No, but THROUGHOUT this thread you have repeatedly called for the children of criminals to be put to death for non-capital crimes.

Your final question to me is just frankly, well stupid and I won’t answer it.

Why is it stupid? YOU are advocating the execution of rapist's children, why should the children of arsonists, robbers and other criminals be exempt under your plan?

310 posted on 02/08/2012 5:54:51 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

“So, violent rape that is immediately reported and a rape kit done would be considered rape,”

Depending upon what the results of the rape kit said, yes.

“but women who didn’t report the rape or women who were victims of non-violent “date rape” would be deemed to not have been raped?”

No, they just would not be allowed protection under the rape exception in my scenario.

“you have repeatedly called for the children of criminals to be put to death for non-capital crimes.”

Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a bald-faced lie on FR before.


311 posted on 02/08/2012 8:11:30 AM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: Grunthor; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
No, they just would not be allowed protection under the rape exception in my scenario.

Okay, so on this thread you have opined that not allowing a rape victim to have an abortion is akin to "slavery" and you have stated that a fertilized egg IS NOT a person, but now you only want women who suffered from visibly violent rapes to have a rape exception?

Do you realize how inconsistent you are being?

Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a bald-faced lie on FR before.

Really?

Have you or have you not been advocating for women who have been raped to have abortions?

How is this not advocating putting the children of rapists to death?

You may not like the truth, but it is what it is.

312 posted on 02/08/2012 8:26:18 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

“Have you or have you not been advocating for women who have been raped to have abortions?”

I have not. I have been arguing for rape victims to not be forced to become pregnant. This means that I support them being given a choice under a rape exception to any law banning abortion.

You are either ignorant of the difference or you are a liar.


313 posted on 02/08/2012 8:29:53 AM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: Grunthor

There is no difference


314 posted on 02/08/2012 9:21:15 AM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: surroundedbyblue

“There is no difference”

I believe that you believe that.


315 posted on 02/08/2012 9:24:11 AM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: Inclines to the Right

I think that you misunderstand me. I am not advocation FOR abortion in the case of rape. I am advocating for a rape victim to not be forced into pregnancy.


316 posted on 02/08/2012 9:29:51 AM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: Grunthor; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
I have not. I have been arguing for rape victims to not be forced to become pregnant. This means that I support them being given a choice under a rape exception to any law banning abortion.

That is a distinction without a difference.

Rape victims are either pregnant or they aren't, if they ARE pregnant the only way to keep them from having the baby is for the baby to die.

You are either ignorant of the difference or you are a liar.

I'm not ignorant of anything or lying.

If a woman is pregnant, there are ONLY TWO outcomes:
1. The baby is born alive.
2. The baby dies before birth. This can happen on it's own, or the death can be caused intentionally.

You may not be pro-abortion, but every post you have made on this thread is pro-choice on the matter.

317 posted on 02/08/2012 10:33:29 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
"Every abortion clinic should have a sign over the door that says 'Open by permission of the churches in this area.'"

-- Francis Schaffer


318 posted on 02/08/2012 10:40:23 AM PST by EternalVigilance (It is very difficult, if not impossible, to reach those who deny what is self-evident.)
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To: Grunthor
I have been arguing for rape victims to not be forced to become pregnant.

Do you realize that impregnation from rape occurs at the time of the rape, not later? So there's nothing you can do after the rape to prevent impregnation from the rape which already occurred. If you intend to prevent rapes from resulting in impregnation, you must arrange for that in advance. You must identify either the rapist or the victim in advance, and apply pregnancy preventive measures on them before the rape occurs. Why would you do that, and not try to prevent the rape?

Of course I realize you didn't really mean what you said. I'm sure what you really want is to terminate [abort] the pregnancy once it has begun.

319 posted on 02/08/2012 11:34:20 AM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Ʋ)
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To: Grunthor

“I think that you misunderstand me. I am not advocation FOR abortion in the case of rape. I am advocating for a rape victim to not be forced into pregnancy.”

Either you lack a basic understanding of biology or you are trying to spin. The conception of a child would occur during the rape. I’m sure what you are trying to say in a round-about sort of way is that you don’t want rape victims forced into carrying a pregnancy.

You are pro-abortion.


320 posted on 02/08/2012 11:53:44 AM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Grunthor; wagglebee; BykrBayb; surroundedbyblue; EternalVigilance; All
I think that you misunderstand me. I am not advocation FOR abortion in the case of rape. I am advocating for a rape victim to not be forced into pregnancy.

************************

Are you saying that you are not pro-abortion, but you are pro-choice?

321 posted on 02/08/2012 1:09:18 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham; BykrBayb; surroundedbyblue; EternalVigilance
People seem to forget that the ONLY WAY for a pregnant women to immediately become not pregnant is to KILL THE BABY.
322 posted on 02/08/2012 1:37:04 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Grunthor; wagglebee; BykrBayb; EternalVigilance; xzins; surroundedbyblue; Jim Robinson; All
Of course I believe in free will. I also believe that abortion is murder except in rare cases where failure to abort would result in the loss of both mother and child.

I do not believe as you apparently do, that it should be legal for a woman to abort a baby who was conceived during rape.

323 posted on 02/08/2012 1:49:19 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham; BykrBayb; EternalVigilance; xzins; surroundedbyblue; Jim Robinson; Grunthor
A medical procedure that is NECESSARY to save a woman's life and has the UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE of the baby dying is not considered an abortion by the pro-life movement.

I do not believe as you apparently do, that it should be legal for a woman to abort a baby who was conceived during rape.

To be fair, the troll only believes that women who are violently raped should be allowed to kill their babies.

324 posted on 02/08/2012 1:55:31 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Yes, I neglected to mention that the woman must prove that the rape was violent, and then she can kill the baby.


325 posted on 02/08/2012 2:05:15 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: BykrBayb

“Do you realize that impregnation from rape occurs at the time of the rape, not later?”

Do you realize that it takes two to three days for sperm to reach egg?


326 posted on 02/08/2012 2:44:22 PM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: All

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_does_it_take_sperm_to_reach_an_egg

Fertilization is not instant.

I’m done with this thread.


327 posted on 02/08/2012 2:51:08 PM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: Grunthor

More like a few minutes to five days. But don’t let facts get in the way of your blood lust.


328 posted on 02/08/2012 2:52:18 PM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Ʋ)
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To: Grunthor

Wrong. You flunk.

Sperm can reach the Fallopian tube & fertilize an egg 30 min to two hours after sex.

Why don’t you just concede defeat & admit you’re pro-choice.


329 posted on 02/08/2012 2:54:02 PM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Catholic Iowan
So, if Ron Paul deemed that an allegationis credible, he would perform an abortion??? Wow! Then, Ron Paul is not pro-life.

Ron Paul is pro-life, but it seem like you are pro-rape. Who is the pro-life candidate for you in this election?
330 posted on 02/08/2012 10:24:45 PM PST by billybudd
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To: mnehring

He should define “honest rape”. I believe all life is sacred, regardless of consequences. It’s unfortunate that rape happens, and it’s unfortunate that it’s used as a justifiable means toward an abortion.


331 posted on 02/11/2012 12:41:36 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: surroundedbyblue
Not surprising. His pro-life credentials were shaky, at best.

This whopper just clinches it. He's a pro-choice fraudster.

332 posted on 02/11/2012 12:48:30 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: Grunthor
Do you support the nine to ten month imprisonment of a rape victim to ensure that her rapists seed is brought to term?

Do you realize you are in full agreement with Barack Obama?  The fact that you call it an imprisonment shows how little regard you have for the sanctity of life.

333 posted on 02/11/2012 12:53:06 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: strider44

Did you ever hear of putting a child up for adoption?


334 posted on 02/11/2012 12:54:43 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: mamelukesabre
I think its pretty obvious what he meant. I think its pretty obvious he’s right.

Abortion is murder pure and simple. Don't punish the baby to death just because the father might happen to be a registered sex offender for example. Ron Paul has revealed himself to be a pro-choice goof ball because most of his base are pro-choice leftists. He should stop calling himself a Christian if he believes an "honest rape" is a justifiable means of killing an innocent life.

335 posted on 02/11/2012 1:12:10 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: Grunthor

A zygote is a two-celled embryo. An embryo is the basis of a living being.


336 posted on 02/11/2012 1:54:02 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: Grunthor

Your decision and the woman’s decision are both trumped by the Founding Documents.


337 posted on 02/11/2012 2:01:25 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: Grunthor
And how are you going to ensure that the human being that you are loving and protecting does not make a decision that you disagree with?

You ask yourself that while you assume the unborn baby wants to die.

338 posted on 02/11/2012 2:04:05 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: Quix; marbren

(Soylent Green???)

= = =
Yes, the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but are mighty in God to the pulling down of strongholds.

= = =
Ron Paul’s ignorant word choice is alarming and upsetting; I’m thinkin’ of sending him a dollar so he can go buy a clue.


339 posted on 02/11/2012 8:00:26 AM PST by Joya (http://www.raptureready.com/)
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To: Joya

Many thousands of Conservative Christians need to wake-up, too.

Sigh.


340 posted on 02/11/2012 8:29:25 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Joya

Thank You Joya, The rapture may be today! :)


341 posted on 02/11/2012 10:00:20 AM PST by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: billybudd

You think I’m pro-rape??? Congratulations, Billy Budd! You win the award for the most assinine thing I think anyone has ever said to me. But, apparently you believe in punishing the innocent, with a death sentence no less, rather than the guilty. Let me ask you this. What did an innocent unborn child conceived in rape ever do to deserve having it’s life taken in abortion?


342 posted on 02/11/2012 4:22:05 PM PST by Catholic Iowan
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To: Catholic Iowan

Why should the mother be punished for being raped? She should be allowed to get an abortion and the criminal liability for the abortion should be passed on to the rapist.


343 posted on 02/12/2012 4:58:13 PM PST by billybudd
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