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Georgia Judge Michael Malihi is a cowardly traitor
http://english.pravda.ru ^ | February 6 2012 | Mark S. McGrew

Posted on 02/06/2012 4:32:19 PM PST by Para-Ord.45

Friday, February 3, 2012, for some kind of a bribe or because he was threatened, Georgia Judge Michael Malihi sold out his country and defecated on the constitution of The United States of America.

As an Administrative law judge in the State of Georgia, a case was presented to him to have Barack Obama removed from the ballot to run for President in the State of Georgia.

His actions have set precedence in American law that if a person is charged with a crime, the best defense, is to not show up for court. Law schools may now offer a course in "The Obama Defense".

Three separate legal teams presented evidence and witnesses to show that Obama is not eligible to run for President because he is not a natural born citizen. Obama produced no evidence, no witnesses and both he and his lawyer failed to show up for court in violation of a subpoena to do so.

Forget about what we think, whether he is, or is not a natural born citizen. Opinions don't count. Only evidence and witnesses count. But we're not dealing with rational minds in this case. We never have.

Judge Michael Malihi violated a basic rule of legal interpretation in his ruling. He violated our earliest Supreme Court ruling on how to interpret the Constitution. He ignored evidence. He ignored witnesses. He ignored earlier Supreme Court rulings establishing that the term "natural born citizen" means, one who is born in America to two American citizen parents.

As attorney Leo Donofrio points out on his website: http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com

"...this Court is 'not authorized either to read into or to read out that which would add to or change its meaning.' ...There is no dispute that Obama was born to a non-U.S. citizen father (his father was a British citizen) and U.S. citizen mother. Being born to an alien father, Obama also inherited his father's British citizenship under the British Nationality Act 1948.

All this demonstrates that Obama was not born in the full and complete legal, political, and military allegiance and jurisdiction of the United States. He is therefore not an Article II "natural born Citizen" and cannot be placed on the Georgia primary ballot."

It is impossible to believe, that Judge Michael Malihi, himself, believed, he was following the constitution and legal precedent. He knows he's a crook. He knows he's a liar. He knows, that in his ancestral home country, that unlike America, he would have his head chopped off for what he did.

He ignored the Constitution and at least three US Supreme Court rulings, defining Natural born citizen as one who is born in America to two citizen parents. He ignored the Law of Nations, that the founders of this country used to draft our constitution. He ignored the countless letters, written back and forth by our founders, defining natural born citizen and their reasons for why they would only accept a natural born citizen as their President.

(Excerpt)


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: naturalborncitizen; sourcetitlenoturl
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To: Kansas58

Stomp your foot louder, they can't quite hear you in China.

51 posted on 02/06/2012 6:00:19 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Kansas58

Listen precisely to what you`re attempting to argue. You are trying to tell us that the Founders made a clear and exact distinction, FOR NO REASON !

You expect a rational person to accept that a distinction is not a distinction, AT ALL.

The Founders found no need to extrapolate merely because everyone clearly understood the simple idea and fundamentals.

John Jay, who later went on to become the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, “Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and reasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.”

Vattel`s Law of Nations, “...natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. “

THIRD CONGRESS in 1795 states, “...children of citizens [plural, i.e. two parents] of the United States...shall be considered citizens of the United States; Provided That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons, whose fathers have never been resident in the United States...”

FIRST CONGRESS in 1790 states, “...children of citizens (NB: plural, i.e. two parents) of the United States...shall be considered as natural born citizens of the United States; Provided That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons, whose fathers have never been resident in the United States...”

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says:

“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens...”

Keep telling us the CLEAR DISTINCTION is not a distinction.


52 posted on 02/06/2012 6:01:24 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: itsahoot
You really think that any court has even considered the facts? Lawyers are less than pond scum.

Lawyers have argued (and won) District of Columbia v Heller, and McDonald v Chicago. Justice Scalia, for whom I have great respect, was a lawyer before his appointment as a Judge. So lawyers can be helpful or a complete road block.

The facts before the Georgia court were pretty simple - some of the plaintiffs submitted the COLB and agreed that 0bama was born in Hawaii. Once that is agreed, the judge is going to follow over 100 years of precedent, and rule him natural born. Anyone who thinks differently is allowing his wishes to corrupt his thinking process.

53 posted on 02/06/2012 6:06:22 PM PST by sometime lurker
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To: Para-Ord.45
Sure there was a reason.

The Founders made a distinction between Natural Born and Naturalized.

PERIOD!

Natural Born means Citizen at Birth and nothing more.

I notice that you quote Congressional Legislation from 1795. Very well, that law has been stricken and changed several times.

54 posted on 02/06/2012 6:08:04 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: sometime lurker

Rep. John Bingham, author of the 14th Amendment :

” ... I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...”

Keep your penumbras and emanations that also say the right to kill babies is also written there in the Constitution.


55 posted on 02/06/2012 6:08:53 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Para-Ord.45

Traitors get dealt with, one way or the other. Even the good Lord had a traitor in his midst.


56 posted on 02/06/2012 6:09:01 PM PST by pray4liberty (dare I say it?)
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To: Kansas58
Very well, that law has been stricken and changed several times.
Speaking of the law...

@The Sense of the Senate Resolution was appropriate in that case and it conflicts with nothing I have posted, here.

@Is that Sense of the Senate Resolution law?

Why do you refuse to answer my question?

I mean, @you tried to answer it yet still failed to do so.

However, the purpose of any Resolution in the House or Senate is much like a Preamble, explaining law or legal findings or legislation that happens later or after said resolution.
I know what it's purpose is.
Just answer the question...Is that Sense of the Senate Resolution law? Yes or no.

57 posted on 02/06/2012 6:18:12 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Kansas58

” ... that law has been stricken and changed several times.” With penumbras and emanations. Yeah, heard that argument before, “ Killing babies is written right there in the Constitution. Only an idiot can`t see it.”

When it some to the law the last stop on that train is the USSC:

Minor v. Happersett (1874)

” ...It is sufficient, for everything we have now to consider, that all children, born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction,”

Perkins v. Elg’s (1939)

The USSC just cleared up the distinction for you.

CASE CLOSED


58 posted on 02/06/2012 6:19:06 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: philman_36
Is Jack Ryan trying to punk people or just get more hits?

Orly said on her site that she filed an appeal, but didn't post the text. Are you saying that the linked appeal is fraudulent?

59 posted on 02/06/2012 6:21:27 PM PST by sometime lurker
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To: mkjessup

“Just wondering, do you carry water for 0bama pro bono, or do you submit monthly invoices for your ‘services’?”

I’m paid a flat rate of $500/month, plus $2/post. It’s steady work...


60 posted on 02/06/2012 6:23:09 PM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: sometime lurker
So what say you?
@Is Jack Ryan trying to punk people or just get more hits?
You have looked into @what I told you, haven't you.
Isn't "Jack Ryan" the screen name of the person who posted to Scribd what you linked?
61 posted on 02/06/2012 6:23:09 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Minor V Happersett(1874) does NOT exclude those born on US soil, to Alien parents, from the Natural Born Citizen definition.
It says, plainly, that those born with two Citizen parents, on US Soil, ARE Natural Born Citizens, yet it specifically excludes nobody at all.


62 posted on 02/06/2012 6:24:40 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Texas Fossil

Pravda,ru is a bogus site, nothing more and nothing less. When you try to pass yourself off as something you are not, you start with a lie.


63 posted on 02/06/2012 6:27:04 PM PST by org.whodat (Sorry bill, I should never have made all those jokes about you and Lewinsky, have fun.)
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To: MamaTexan

“Only Natural Law can bestow natural born citizenship because it is inherited through your bloodline.”

You cannot get much more wrong that that!

“I. In construing any act of legislation, whether a statute enacted by the legislature or a constitution established by the people as the supreme law of the land, regard is to be had not only to all parts of the act itself, and of any former act of the same lawmaking power of which the act in question is an amendment, but also to the condition and to the history [p654] of the law as previously existing, and in the light of which the new act must be read and interpreted.

The Constitution of the United States, as originally adopted, uses the words “citizen of the United States,” and “natural-born citizen of the United States.” By the original Constitution, every representative in Congress is required to have been “seven years a citizen of the United States,” and every Senator to have been “nine years a citizen of the United States.” and “no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President.” The Fourteenth Article of Amendment, besides declaring that

all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside,

also declares that

no State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

And the Fifteenth Article of Amendment declares that

the right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States, or by any State, on account of race, color or previous condition of servitude.

The Constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words, either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except insofar as this is done by the affirmative declaration that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.” In this as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution. Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. 162; Ex parte Wilson, 114 U.S. 417, 422; Boyd v. United States, 116 U.S. 616, 624, 625; Smith v. Alabama, 124 U.S. 465. The language of the Constitution, as has been well said, could not be understood without reference to the common law. Kent Com. 336; Bradley, J., in Moore v. United States, 91 U.S. 270, 274. [p655]

In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.” And he proceeded to resort to the common law as an aid in the construction of this provision. 21 Wall. 167.

In Smith v. Alabama, Mr. Justice Matthews, delivering the judgment of the court, said:

There is no common law of the United States, in the sense of a national customary law, distinct from the common law of England as adopted by the several States each for itself, applied as its local law, and subject to such alteration as may be provided by its own statutes. . . . There is, however, one clear exception to the statement that there is no national common law. The interpretation of the Constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history.

124 U.S. 478.

II. The fundamental principle of the common law with regard to English nationality was birth within the allegiance, also called “ligealty,” “obedience,” “faith,” or “power” of the King. The principle embraced all persons born within the King’s allegiance and subject to his protection. Such allegiance and protection were mutual — as expressed in the maxim protectio trahit subjectionem, et subjectio protectionem — and were not restricted to natural-born subjects and naturalized subjects, or to those who had taken an oath of allegiance, but were predicable of aliens in amity so long as they were within the kingdom. Children, born in England, of such aliens were therefore natural-born subjects. But the children, born within the realm, of foreign ambassadors, or the children of alien enemies, born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the King’s dominions, were not natural-born subjects because not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction, of the King.

This fundamental principle, with these qualifications or [p656] explanations of it, was clearly, though quaintly, stated in the leading case, known as Calvin’s Case, or the Case of the Postnati, decided in 1608, after a hearing in the Exchequer Chamber before the Lord Chancellor and all the Judges of England, and reported by Lord Coke and by Lord Ellesmere. Calvin’s Case, 7 Rep. 1, 4b-6a, 18a, 18b; Ellesmere on Postnati, 62-64; S.C., 2 Howell’s State Trials, 559, 607, 613-617, 639, 640, 659, 679.

The English authorities ever since are to the like effect. Co.Lit. 8a, 128b, Lord Hale, in Hargrave’s Law Tracts, 210, an in 1 Hale P.C. 61, 62; 1 Bl.Com. 366, 369, 370, 374; 4 Bl.Com. 74, 92; Lord Kenyon, in Doe v. Jones, 4 T.R. 300, 308; Cockburn on Nationality, 7; Dicey Conflict of Laws, p. 173-177, 741.

In Udny v. Udny, (1869) L.R. 1 H.L. Sc. 441, the point decided was one of inheritance, depending upon the question whether the domicil of the father was in England or in Scotland, he being in either alternative a British subject. Lord Chancellor Hatherley said: “The question of naturalization and of allegiance is distinct from that of domicil.” P. 452. Lord Westbury, in the passage relied on by the counsel for the United States, began by saying:

The law of England, and of almost all civilized countries, ascribes to each individual at his birth two distinct legal states or conditions: one, by virtue of which he becomes the subject of some particular country, binding him by the tie of natural allegiance, and which may be called his political status; another by virtue of which he has ascribed to him the character of a citizen of some particular country, and as such is possessed of certain municipal rights, and subject to certain obligations, which latter character is the civil status or condition of the individual, and may be quite different from his political status.

And then, while maintaining that the civil status is universally governed by the single principle of domicil, domicilium, the criterion established by international law for the purpose of determining civil status, and the basis on which

the personal rights of the party, that is to say, the law which determines his majority or minority, his marriage, succession, testacy or intestacy, [p657] must depend,

he yet distinctly recognized that a man’s political status, his country, patria, and his “nationality, that is, natural allegiance,” “may depend on different laws in different countries.” Pp. 457, 460. He evidently used the word “citizen” not as equivalent to “subject,” but rather to “inhabitant,” and had no thought of impeaching the established rule that all persons born under British dominion are natural-born subjects.

Lord Chief Justice Cockburn, in the same year, reviewing the whole matter, said:

By the common law of England, every person born within the dominions of the Crown, no matter whether of English or of foreign parents, and, in the latter case, whether the parents were settled or merely temporarily sojourning, in the country, was an English subject, save only the children of foreign ambassadors (who were excepted because their fathers carried their own nationality with them), or a child born to a foreigner during the hostile occupation of any part of the territories of England. No effect appears to have been given to descent as a source of nationality.

Cockburn on Nationality, 7.

Mr. Dicey, in his careful and thoughtful Digest of the Law of England with reference to the Conflict of Laws, published in 1896, states the following propositions, his principal rules being printed below in italics:

“British subject” means any person who owes permanent allegiance to the Crown. “Permanent” allegiance is used to distinguish the allegiance of a British subject from the allegiance of an alien who, because he is within the British dominions, owes “temporary” allegiance to the Crown. “Natural-born British subject” means a British subject who has become a British subject at the moment of his birth.” “Subject to the exceptions hereinafter mentioned, any person who (whatever the nationality of his parents) is born within the British dominions is a natural-born British subject. This rule contains the leading principle of English law on the subject of British nationality.

The exceptions afterwards mentioned by Mr. Dicey are only these two:

1. Any person who (his father being an alien enemy) is born in a part of the British dominions, which at the time of such [p658] person’s birth is in hostile occupation, is an alien.

2. Any person whose father (being an alien) is at the time of such person’s birth an ambassador or other diplomatic agent accredited to the Crown by the Sovereign of a foreign State is (though born within the British dominions) an alien.

And he adds:

The exceptional and unimportant instances in which birth within the British dominions does not of itself confer British nationality are due to the fact that, though at common law nationality or allegiance in substance depended on the place of a person’s birth, it in theory, at least, depended not upon the locality of a man’s birth, but upon his being born within the jurisdiction and allegiance of the King of England, and it might occasionally happen that a person was born within the dominions without being born within the allegiance, or, in other words, under the protection and control of, the Crown.

Dicey Conflict of Laws, pp. 173-177, 741.

It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.

III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established.

In the early case of The Charming Betsy, (1804) it appears to have been assumed by this court that all persons born in the United States were citizens of the United States, Chief Justice Marshall saying:

Whether a person born within the United States, or becoming a citizen according to the established laws of the country, can divest himself absolutely of [p659] that character otherwise than in such manner as may be prescribed by law is a question which it is not necessary at present to decide.

2 Cranch 64, 119.

In Inglis v. Sailors’ Snug Harbor (1833), 3 Pet. 99, in which the plaintiff was born in the city of New York about the time of the Declaration of Independence, the justices of this court (while differing in opinion upon other points) all agreed that the law of England as to citizenship by birth was the law of the English Colonies in America. Mr. Justice Thompson, speaking for the majority of the court, said:

It is universally admitted, both in the English courts and in those of our own country, that all persons born within the Colonies of North America, whilst subject to the Crown of Great Britain, are natural-born British subjects.

3 Pet. 120. Mr. Justice Johnson said: “He was entitled to inherit as a citizen born of the State of New York.” 3 Pet. 136. Mr. Justice Story stated the reasons upon this point more at large, referring to Calvin’s Case, Blackstone’s Commentaries, and Doe v. Jones, above cited, and saying:

Allegiance is nothing more than the tie or duty of obedience of a subject to the sovereign under whose protection he is, and allegiance by birth is that which arises from being born within the dominions and under the protection of a particular sovereign. Two things usually concur to create citizenship: first, birth locally within the dominions of the sovereign, and secondly, birth within the protection and obedience, or, in other words, within the allegiance of the sovereign. That is, the party must be born within a place where the sovereign is at the time in full possession and exercise of his power, and the party must also, at his birth, derive protection from, and consequently owe obedience or allegiance to, the sovereign, as such, de facto. There are some exceptions which are founded upon peculiar reasons, and which, indeed, illustrate and confirm the general doctrine. Thus, a person who is born on the ocean is a subject of the prince to whom his parents then owe allegiance; for he is still deemed under the protection of his sovereign, and born in a place where he has dominion in common with all other sovereigns. So the children of an ambassador are held to be [p660] subjects of the prince whom he represents, although born under the actual protection and in the dominions of a foreign prince.

3 Pet. 155. “The children of enemies, born in a place within the dominions of another sovereign, then occupied by them by conquest, are still aliens.” 3 Pet. 156.

Nothing is better settled at the common law than the doctrine that the children, even of aliens, born in a country while the parents are resident there under the protection of the government and owing a temporary allegiance thereto, are subjects by birth.

3 Pet. 164.

In Shanks v. Dupont, 3 Pet. 242, decided (as appears by the records of this court) on the same day as the last case, it was held that a woman born in South Carolina before the Declaration of Independence, married to an English officer in Charleston during its occupation by the British forces in the Revolutionary War, and accompanying her husband on his return to England, and there remaining until her death, was a British subject within the meaning of the Treaty of Peace of 1783, so that her title to land in South Carolina, by descent cast before that treaty, was protected thereby. It was of such a case that Mr. Justice Story, delivering the opinion of the court, said:

The incapacities of femes covert, provided by the common law, apply to their civil rights, and are for their protection and interest. But they do not reach their political rights, nor prevent their acquiring or losing a national character. Those political rights do not stand upon the mere doctrines of municipal law, applicable to ordinary transactions, but stand upon the more general principles of the law of nations.

3 Pet. 248. This last sentence was relied on by the counsel for the United States as showing that the question whether a person is a citizen of a particular country is to be determined not by the law of that country, but by the principles of international law. But Mr. Justice Story certainly did not mean to suggest that, independently of treaty, there was any principle of international law which could defeat the operation of the established rule of citizenship by birth within the United States; for he referred (p. 245) to the contemporaneous opinions in Inglis v. Sailors’ Snug Harbor, [p661] above cited, in which this rule had been distinctly recognized, and in which he had said (p. 162) that “each government had a right to decide for itself who should be admitted or deemed citizens,” and, in his Treatise on the Conflict of Laws, published in 1834, he said that, in respect to residence in different countries or sovereignties, “there are certain principles which have been generally recognized by tribunals administering public law” [adding, in later editions “or the law of nations”] “as of unquestionable authority,” and stated, as the first of those principles, “Persons who are born in a country are generally deemed citizens and subjects of that country.” Story, Conflict of Laws, § 48.

The English statute of 11 & 12 Will. III (1700). c. 6, entitled

An act to enable His Majesty’s natural-born subjects to inherit the estate of their ancestors, either lineal or collateral, notwithstanding their father or mother were aliens,

enacted that “all and every person or persons, being the King’s natural-born subject or subjects, within any of the King’s realms or dominions,” might and should thereafter lawfully inherit and make their titles by descent to any lands

from any of their ancestors, lineal or collateral, although the father and mother, or father or mother, or other ancestor, of such person or persons, by, from, through or under whom

title should be made or derived, had been or should be “born out of the King’s allegiance, and out of is Majesty’s realms and dominions,” as fully and effectually, as if such parents or ancestors “had been naturalized or natural-born subject or subjects within the King’s dominions.” 7 Statutes of the Realm, 90. It may be observed that, throughout that statute, persons born within the realm, although children of alien parents, were called “natural-born subjects.” As that statute included persons born “within any of the King’s realms or dominions,” it, of course, extended to the Colonies, and, not having been repealed in Maryland, was in force there. In McCreery v. Somerville, (1824) 9 Wheat. 354, which concerned the title to land in the State of Maryland, it was assumed that children born in that State of an alien who was still living, and who had not been naturalized, were “native-born citizens of the [p662] United States,” and, without such assumption, the case would not have presented the question decided by the court, which, as stated by Mr. Justice Story in delivering the opinion, was

whether the statute applies to the case of a living alien ancestor, so as to create a title by heirship where none would exist by the common law if the ancestor were a natural-born subject.

9 Wheat. 356.

Again, in Levy v. McCartee (1832), 6 Pet. 102, 112, 113, 115, which concerned a descent cast since the American Revolution, in the State of New York, where the statute of 11 & 12 Will. III had been repealed, this court, speaking by Mr. Justice Story, held that the case must rest for its decision exclusively upon the principles of the common law, and treated it as unquestionable that, by that law, a child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, quoting the statement of Lord Coke in Co.Lit. 8a, that,

if an alien cometh into England and hath issue two sons, these two sons are indigenae, subjects born, because they are born within the realm,

and saying that such a child “was a native-born subject, according to the principles of the common law stated by this court in McCreery v. Somervlle, 9 Wheat. 354.”

In Dred Scott v. Sandford, (1857) 19 How. 393, Mr. Justice Curtis said:

The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, “a natural-born citizen.” It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.

19 How. 576. And, to this extent, no different opinion was expressed or intimated by any of the other judges.

In United States v. Rhodes (1866), Mr. Justice Swayne, sitting in the Circuit Court, said:

All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England. . . . We find no warrant for the opinion [p663] that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions, since as before the Revolution.

1 Abbott (U.S.) 28, 40, 41.

The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts, speaking by Mr. Justice (afterwards Chief Justice) Sewall, early held that the determination of the question whether a man was a citizen or an alien was “to be governed altogether by the principles of the common law,” and that it was established, with few exceptions,

that a man born within the jurisdiction of the common law is a citizen of the country wherein he is born. By this circumstance of his birth, he is subjected to the duty of allegiance which is claimed and enforced by the sovereign of his native land, and becomes reciprocally entitled to the protection of that sovereign, and to the other rights and advantages which are included in the term “citizenship.”

Garder v. Ward (1805), 2 Mass. 244, note. And again:

The doctrine of the common law is that every man born within its jurisdiction is a subject of the sovereign of the country where he is born, and allegiance is not personal to the sovereign in the extent that has been contended for; it is due to him in his political capacity of sovereign of the territory where the person owing the allegiance as born.

Kilham v. Ward (1806), 2 Mass. 236, 265. It may here be observed that, in a recent English case, Lord Coleridge expressed the opinion of the Queen’s Bench Division that the statutes of 4 Geo. II, (1731) c. 1, and 13 Geo. III (1773), c. 21, (hereinafter referred to) “clearly recognize that to the King in his politic, and not in his personal, capacity is the allegiance of his subjects due.” Isaacson v. Durant, 17 Q.B.D. 54, 65.

The Supreme Court of North Carolina, speaking by Mr; Justice Gaston, said:

Before our Revolution, all free persons born within the dominions of the King of Great Britain, whatever their color or complexion, were native-born British subjects; those born out of his allegiance were aliens. . . . Upon the Revolution, no other change took place in the law of North Carolina than was consequent upon the transition from a colony dependent on an European King to a free and sovereign [p664] State; . . . British subjects in North Carolina became North Carolina freemen; . . . and all free persons born within the State are born citizens of the State. . . . The term “citizen,” as understood in our law, is precisely analogous to the term “subject” in the common law, and the change of phrase has entirely resulted from the change of government. The sovereignty has been transferred from one man to the collective body of the people, and he who before as a “subject of the king” is now “a citizen of the State.”

State v. Manuel (1838), 4 Dev. & Bat. 20, 24-26.

That all children born within the dominion of the United States of foreign parents holding no diplomatic office became citizens at the time of their birth does not appear to have been contested or doubted until more than fifty years after the adoption of the Constitution, when the matter was elaborately argued in the Court of Chancery of New York and decided upon full consideration by Vice Chancellor Sandford in favor of their citizenship. Lynch v. Clark, (1844) 1 Sandf.Ch. 583.

The same doctrine was repeatedly affirmed in the executive departments, as, for instance, by Mr. Marcy, Secretary of State, in 1854, 2 Whart.Int.Dig. (2d ed.) p. 394; by Attorney General Black in 1859, 9 Opinions, 373, and by Attorney General Bates in 1862, 10 Opinions, 328, 382, 394, 396.

Chancellor Kent, in his Commentaries, speaking of the “general division of the inhabitants of every country under the comprehensive title of aliens and natives,” says:

Natives are all persons born within the jurisdiction and allegiance of the United States. This is the rule of the common law, without any regard or reference to the political condition or allegiance of their parents, with the exception of the children of ambassadors, who are in theory born within the allegiance of the foreign power they represent. . . . To create allegiance by birth, the party must be born not only within the territory, but within the ligeance of the government. If a portion of the country be taken and held by conquest in war, the conqueror acquires the rights of the conquered as to its dominion and government, and children born in the armies of a State, while [p665] abroad and occupying a foreign country, are deemed to be born in the allegiance of the sovereign to whom the army belongs. It is equally the doctrine of the English common law that, during such hostile occupation of a territory, and the parents be adhering to the enemy as subjects de facto, their children, born under such a temporary dominion, are not born under the ligeance of the conquered.

2 Kent Com. (6th ed.) 39, 42. And he elsewhere says:

And if, at common law, all human beings born within the ligeance of the King, and under the King’s obedience, were natural-born subjects, and not aliens, I do not perceive why this doctrine does not apply to these United States, in all cases in which there is no express constitutional or statute declaration to the contrary. . . . Subject and citizen are, in a degree, convertible terms as applied to natives, and though the term citizen seems to be appropriate to republican freemen, yet we are, equally with the inhabitants of all other countries, subjects, for we are equally bound by allegiance and subjection to the government and law of the land.

2 Kent Com. 258, note...”

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0169_0649_ZO.html


64 posted on 02/06/2012 6:28:06 PM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: philman_36

The key point to me is whether or not what Jack Ryan posted is the appeal sent by Orly. If it’s accurate, I don’t care who posted it. Do you have evidence that it isn’t?


65 posted on 02/06/2012 6:28:36 PM PST by sometime lurker
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To: Texas Fossil

Pravda,ru is a bogus site, nothing more and nothing less. When you try to pass yourself off as something you are not, you start with a lie.


66 posted on 02/06/2012 6:28:45 PM PST by org.whodat (Sorry bill, I should never have made all those jokes about you and Lewinsky, have fun.)
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To: sometime lurker
Orly said on her site that she filed an appeal, but didn't post the text.
So what! And if she didn't post the text then how did this "Jack Ryan" character get the text of her appeal, if it's real?

Are you saying that the linked appeal is fraudulent?
Nope, I'm not saying that at all. My questions are already on the board.

Will you vouch the veracity of what he's saying is "the real deal"?
Based upon what I saw and read it's nothing more than a caricature based upon little more than animosity.

67 posted on 02/06/2012 6:32:39 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Mortrey

Thanks for the link. Good observations on the comments section. From those comments the following was observed:

Valerie Jarrett, born in Iran.

Tony Rezko, Iranian.

Judge #Malihi in #GA? His family names are Persian/Iranian.

Connection?

Dr. Taitz: Can someone tell me, what is Amir LLC doing and who is Max C Malihi, how is he related to Michael Malihi?

http://t.co/TNPF4MK


68 posted on 02/06/2012 6:36:40 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: MamaTexan
No legal authority will agree with this post of yours.

In fact, I am guessing that even a few Birthers might think you have gone over the edge a bit!

69 posted on 02/06/2012 6:38:48 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: org.whodat; El Cid

Did not say that I believed all that was on pravda.ru

But I have seen things there that the MSM would not cover, that were correct.

Nothing past that.

And yes, verify anything on the web. (also in print or TV)


70 posted on 02/06/2012 6:41:17 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: sometime lurker
The key point to me is whether or not what Jack Ryan posted is the appeal sent by Orly.
It matters to me as well if it is her appeal. That's why I'm asking you the questions I am. I also would like to see anything Orly actually submits herself as well, not some BS, piss poor attempt at humor being proffered as a legal document by some Internet character known to work hand and glove with Obots at thefogbow.com.

If it’s accurate, I don’t care who posted it.
I agree. I also have to question if it is accurate.

Do you have evidence that it isn’t?
No, I don't. As I said, that's why I' asking questions of you as the person who linked it as an official document.
Do you have any evidence that it is accurate?

71 posted on 02/06/2012 6:42:06 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: LibLieSlayer
You don’t have a problem with this judge’s legal reasoning?

Why would I? The plaintiffs agreed Obama was born in Hawaii. The judge agreed Obama was born in Hawaii. Therefore, the judge agreed that Obama was a Natural Born Citizen.

I've maintained the position for the past 3+ years that this "two citizen parent" so-called "requirement" is nothing more than a fictional device created by birthers to be a standard of eligibility that Obama could not possibly meet. It has no basis in law or our Constitution and, as such, no court is going to buy it. In case after case after case, I've been proven correct. Nobody is buying this nonsense. Nobody.

I've further maintained that birthers are useful idiots who are actually helping Obama by deflecting attention away from his failed policies and making conservatism look like the abode of unhinged cranks and crackpot conspiracy theorists. They hurt Obama's legitimate opposition and when their absurd nonsense gets slapped down in court, I've got no problem with this at all.

72 posted on 02/06/2012 6:42:45 PM PST by Drew68
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To: Kansas58

“Minor V Happersett(1874) does NOT exclude those born on US soil, to Alien parents, from the Natural Born Citizen definition.”

Again you `re attempt to erase clear distinctions is laughable.

Chief Justice Waite, in Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), stated: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.”

Waite was being clear and distinct, telling you exactly who are natural-born citizens; those born in the country of parents who are citizens. The words are plain-spoken and self-evident. There are two classes of persons discussed in the above quotation. Those born in the country of citizen parents were labeled by the Court as “natives or natural-born citizens”, but these were also further identified as being “distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of the parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.”

The distinction is crucial, clear and obvious except to those with some pride/ego to protect or with a political agenda as the Minor`s court unanimous opinion and definition of natural-born citizen has never been overruled or even questioned.


73 posted on 02/06/2012 6:43:14 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Para-Ord.45
Your post does not support your cause.
There are statutory exceptions and Treaty exceptions, which cover children born at sea or the children of diplomats, etc.
Madison and other Founders commented on the rights and power of Congress to make such exceptions.
All Bingham has done is note the fact that exceptions have always and will always exist, but that the primary issue is the place of birth.
74 posted on 02/06/2012 6:44:00 PM PST by Kansas58
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Damn the typos! Full speed ahead...why I'm asking...
75 posted on 02/06/2012 6:47:28 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Drew68
The plaintiffs agreed Obama was born in Hawaii.
You got real transcripts besides those that "Jack Ryan" posted at Scribd that had the "Friends of thefogbow" watermark on them? Got link?
I would like to see that.
76 posted on 02/06/2012 6:50:20 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: sometime lurker

You might be interested in reply 76 as well since it pertains to “Jack Ryan”.


77 posted on 02/06/2012 6:54:47 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Para-Ord.45

From a law book or online info? Gotta be careful:

“JUSTIA.COM SURGICALLY REMOVED “MINOR v HAPPERSETT” FROM 25 SUPREME COURT OPINIONS IN RUN UP TO ’08 ELECTION.”

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/justia-com-surgically-removed-minor-v-happersett-from-25-supreme-court-opinions-in-run-up-to-08-election/

Personally, I want to find out more about Malihi, as well as Bath-House Barry.


78 posted on 02/06/2012 6:55:02 PM PST by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Kansas58

“There are statutory exceptions and Treaty exceptions, which cover children born at sea or the children of diplomats”

Cite the exception to Minor and the Constitution .


79 posted on 02/06/2012 6:55:09 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Drew68
The plaintiffs agreed Obama was born in Hawaii.

As they say in Missouri...@http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Farrar-transcript.pdf
Show me.

I'm still looking for the others so any help would be appreciated.

80 posted on 02/06/2012 7:01:03 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Para-Ord.45
Again: Congress has a right and a duty to interpret the Constitution.

Again: Congress also has a right and duty to enact legislation regarding citizenship.

Madison, the Father of the Constitution, made it clear after Ratification, that legislation was needed in order to better define citizenship issues.

Natural Born Citizen has ALWAYS meant Citizen at Birth, and nothing else.

However, Congress has change the rules for birthright citizenship several times.

Congressional Law trumps Common Law.

Congressional Law trumps Natural Law.

Congressional Law trumps The Law of Nations.

Congressional Law trumps Vattel.

There are two classes of American Citizenship, in America:

1.) Natural Born

2.) Naturalized

You can not provide us with a single quote, from anyone in authority, that proves otherwise.

81 posted on 02/06/2012 7:02:43 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Para-Ord.45

I would refer you to Madison.
Get back to us after you study a bit more.


82 posted on 02/06/2012 7:04:43 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58

So, no citation merely a rambling barely coherent general statement devoid of specifics.

Cite the Congressional legislation that overturned Minor and Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution


83 posted on 02/06/2012 7:05:59 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Drew68
Even better...

@I. Farrar’s Case

@II. Swensson’s Case

@III. Welden’s Case

Courtesy of @http://obamaballotchallenge.com/atlantaobama-eligibility-hearing-transcripts

84 posted on 02/06/2012 7:06:40 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Drew68

Now all you have to do is show what backs you up.


85 posted on 02/06/2012 7:09:39 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Para-Ord.45

The Constitution did not need to be overturned.

It means the same thing now as it meant when Ratified:

Natural Born Citizen means Citizen at Birth!

PERIOD!

You can not find a single member of the Constitutional Convention who disagrees with me.

You can not find a single Founder, President, or early Member of Congress who disagrees with me.

James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, clearly agrees with me.


86 posted on 02/06/2012 7:10:19 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58

Madison?

You`re a hack. Can`t even peddle and toe the official line of dicta vs. precedent from Barack Hussein Obama merely a weak “ Minor doesn`t say what it says” drivel.

You sure you want to continue to embarrass yourself like this or maybe it`s time you skulk back to HuffPo or wherever you came from?


87 posted on 02/06/2012 7:11:18 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Alamo-Girl; Danae; little jeremiah; Red Steel; Fred Nerks; LucyT; Seizethecarp; patlin; Noumenon; ..
Ping to 84.
Of interest, perhaps.
88 posted on 02/06/2012 7:14:52 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36

In general, I’ve found legal documents posted on scribd to be accurate. I can’t vouch for any particular one, but this doesn’t sound much different than some other Orly documents I’ve read. I do see the appeal posted on Scribd by three different people, and all three look the same. So either three people conspired to put out an offensive (to the judge) appeal, or all three simply have access to filed legal documents.

Do you have trouble believing Orly sent this? I don’t, especially given her statements about Judge Clay Land, for which she was sanctioned. But time will tell - sooner or later her appeal will be posted somewhere else, perhaps on her site. Or the court will comment on it.


89 posted on 02/06/2012 7:17:35 PM PST by sometime lurker
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To: Para-Ord.45
Madison says clearly, years after ratification, that the Constitution did not clearly define citizenship issues.

“It were to be wished, that we had some law adduced, more precisely defining the qualities of acitizen or an alien; particular laws of this kind have obtained in some of the States; if such a law existed in South Carolina, it might have prevented this question from ever coming before us; but since this has not been the case, let us settle some general principle before we proceed to the presumptive proof arising from public measures under the law, which tend to give support to the inference drawn from such principles.It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States; it will, therefore, be unnecessary to investigate any other. Mr. SMITH founds his claim upon his birthright; his ancestors were among the first settlers of that, colony.”

http://www.scribd.com/doc/79655719/James-Madison-on-Contested-Election-Citizenship-And-Birthright-22-May-1789-House-of-Representatives Madison has made clear that: 1.) Citizenship had not been clearly defined by the Constitution, and COULD be defined by Congress or the States (at that time, prior to the 14th and 15th Amendments) 2.) Location of birth was the most important factor, in American citizenship law.

90 posted on 02/06/2012 7:21:56 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: philman_36
Now all you have to do is show what backs you up.

Farrar-Weldon-Swensson-Powell v. Obama

Part II page 6. "...the following facts are considered: 1) Mr. Obama was born in the United States...

91 posted on 02/06/2012 7:22:11 PM PST by Drew68
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To: sometime lurker; Elderberry
Do you have trouble believing Orly sent this?
As with the transcripts, I'll wait for something from a place a little more credible than Scribd postings and e-mails that were sent to people.
92 posted on 02/06/2012 7:25:03 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Drew68
This is like “whack a mole” -— no matter what the Birthers come up with, there arguments are defeated, yet they never seem to want to admit how weak their case is!

No matter how hard they get “whacked” they don't pay any attention to facts, law or history, or basic English language comprehension.

93 posted on 02/06/2012 7:25:55 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58

” You can not find a single Founder, President, or early Member of Congress who disagrees with me.James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, clearly agrees with me.”

John Jay, who later went on to become the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, “Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and reasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.”

John Adams, 1776:

On the other hand it could never be our Duty to unite with Britain in too great a humiliation with of France. That our real if not our nominal Independence would consist in our Neutrality. If We united with either Nation, in any future War, We must become too subordinate and dependent on that nation, and should be involved in all European Wars as We had been hitherto. That foreign Powers would find means to corrupt our People to influence our Councils, and in fine We should be little better than Puppetts danced on the Wires of the Cabinetts of Europe. We should be the Sport of European Intrigues and Politicks.

Vattel`s Law of Nations, “...natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. “


94 posted on 02/06/2012 7:26:37 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Drew68
No, not from the Decision, from the transcripts.
I was even nice enough to link them for you.
95 posted on 02/06/2012 7:27:13 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Kansas58; Para-Ord.45
"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."
Senator Jacob Howard,
Page 2890, U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, May 30, 1866.

-------

Children of foreigners, aliens, diplomats and ambassadors are EXCLUDED from both naturalized [national law] and natural born [Natural Law] citizenship according to the man who helped co-author the 14th Amendment.

96 posted on 02/06/2012 7:28:49 PM PST by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: Para-Ord.45
And what was John Jay's definition of a “Natural Born Citizen” and how did his definition differ with mine?

Natural Born Citizen means Citizen at Birth. Do you have any quotes from John Jay that say otherwise? I sincerely doubt it or you would have posted such by now.

Also, Vattel does not matter at all in this debate. Madison says CLEARLY that citizenship issues had not been defined in detail, by the Constitution.

That Courts could look to Vattel, long ago, prior to Congressional action, prior to the 14th and 15th Amendments, means nothing at all, as a Constitutional matter.

Supreme Court decisions based on Natural Law, Common Law or the Law of Nations or Vattel can be made MOOT by a simple act of Congress, period.

This is how the law works.

Not every Supreme Court decision is based on Constituional Law, SCOTUS can and often does act as the last word on non-Constitutional issues.

Again, in such cases, a simple Act of Congress is all we need to invalidate a prior ruling of SCOTUS.

Congress has acted SEVERAL TIMES, since Vattel’s writings, to further define citizenship -— Just as James Madison desired that Congress act.

97 posted on 02/06/2012 7:36:28 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Mr Rogers
Please respond with something akin to proper paragraphing so I know what is coming from which source and with actual sources instead of abbreviations to the point the source cannot be ascertained.

When you can do that, I'll be happy to discuss the subject with you.

Until then, please stop spamming the thread.

98 posted on 02/06/2012 7:37:00 PM PST by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: sometime lurker; Elderberry
@http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Appeal-to-Secretary-of-State-Kemp.pdf

Now I'll read it.

99 posted on 02/06/2012 7:40:22 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: sometime lurker
...flew to Hawaii 5 times at her own dime...
That was poorly stated.
...at her own expense...

I hope the whole thing isn't like that.

100 posted on 02/06/2012 7:44:33 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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