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My View: Why not a right to a college education?
Cnn ^

Posted on 02/09/2012 10:49:12 AM PST by outpostinmass2

While in my office, preparing for the new semester, I had the opportunity to watch the president’s speech on college affordability delivered at the University of Michigan. I was interested in the speech in part because I am a political scientist, in part because I am a college professor, and in part because I am an alumnus of the University of Michigan. But most importantly I was interested in the speech because my oldest daughter will be leaving for college in just seven short months. And although being a Johns Hopkins college professor has its benefits (Hopkins gives a generous tuition benefit applicable to any college in the nation) I still worry about my daughter and her four younger brothers and sisters. In his speech President Obama focused on three components designed to ease the burden of middle-class families—reducing interest on college student loans, maintaining the tuition tax credit, and creating incentives to make universities lower their costs. Now I understand for some politics is the art of the possible. He proposes these things knowing that as hard as it will be to pass them legislatively, these things are at least possible to get past both houses of Congress. (It isn’t likely, particularly during an election year, but it’s possible.) But for me, politics isn’t just about the art of the possible—about what we can pass in the here and now. Politics is about expanding and extending that art, about pushing the borders to create space for even more change in the future. How can we do that here? What if, instead of proposing policies geared towards individual middle-class tax-payers that revolved around the assumption that higher education was an individual’s responsibility, the president instead proposed policies geared towards embedding higher education as an individual right.

(Excerpt) Read more at schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com ...


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This we be implemented in Obama's 2nd term.
1 posted on 02/09/2012 10:49:17 AM PST by outpostinmass2
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To: outpostinmass2

I want a right to a porche!


2 posted on 02/09/2012 10:49:51 AM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Go Newt!)
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To: outpostinmass2
One man's privilege is another man's right.
3 posted on 02/09/2012 10:52:53 AM PST by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: All

I;m all in....as long as ALL college professors and administrators agree to work for free....


4 posted on 02/09/2012 10:53:58 AM PST by Maverick68
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To: outpostinmass2

Supposedly people have a right to a highschool educaction, but look how few people actually get one.

Maybe they should fix HS before they start socially promoting PhD students.


5 posted on 02/09/2012 10:54:13 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: outpostinmass2
You want a college education? "for free" implied? sure, here you go: complete MIT curriculum for every course & degree program is at http://ocw.mit.edu

Done.

...what's that? oh, you want a diploma too? Well, why didn't you say so? you said "education", not "certification". That's different. Certification of comprehensive knowledge of 40 different subjects, well, that's going to take several dozen people hundreds of hours to carry out - THAT is not cheap.

6 posted on 02/09/2012 10:54:25 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: outpostinmass2

Why not a right not to work, oh hell, we already have that. Damn, called a government employee.


7 posted on 02/09/2012 10:54:25 AM PST by org.whodat (Sorry bill, I should never have made all those jokes about you and Lewinsky, have fun.)
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To: outpostinmass2
the president instead proposed policies geared towards embedding higher education as an individual right.

If a president can give it to you, it isn't a right.

Rights come from God.

8 posted on 02/09/2012 10:54:39 AM PST by marron
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To: outpostinmass2

I think we should end mandatory schooling. Parents who want their kids to be educated will find a way to make sure they are.

Parents who don’t care will produce the bottom tier manual labor force.


9 posted on 02/09/2012 10:55:19 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: outpostinmass2

We decided that everybody had a right to a high school education, and look how well that worked out. </sarcasm>


10 posted on 02/09/2012 10:55:33 AM PST by Joe the Pimpernel (Too many lawmakers, too many laws, too many lawyers.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Anyone with halfway decent carpentry skill should be able to build one for you, if you cannot.


11 posted on 02/09/2012 10:55:39 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: outpostinmass2

these teachers and professors and colleges preach socialism etc so why don’t they make education cheaper,

Get paid less, the colleges pay the professors less like half and that way tuition is less.

what’s that, yep professors want to make their nice big money , colleges want to make their nice money but preach socialism when it does hurt them in the pockets.

Oh I paid for my house and it’;s only small because it is all I could afford so I want a bigger house and a nicer car for free.

ARF


12 posted on 02/09/2012 10:57:06 AM PST by manc (FOX, DRUDGE, HAS BEEN DISGUSTING IN THEIR BIASED ATTACKS V NEWT. I HATE OUR BIASED LIBERAL MEDIA.)
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To: outpostinmass2

I have a better idea, let’s print diplomas on toliet paper, that way they can be put to good use because they will not be worth the paper they are printed on if higher education is a “right.”


13 posted on 02/09/2012 10:57:06 AM PST by OldGoatCPO
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To: TexasFreeper2009

>>>I want a right to a porche!<<<

You beat me to it... I was about to post that I have a right to a beautiful Italian woman, olive skin, long dark hair, who will pleasure me in a dozen exotic ways on command. After all, it’s a health-related need. I will accept Spanish, Greek, or Latina women.

We are on the verge of collapse if this article means even half of what it states.

God help us.


14 posted on 02/09/2012 10:57:23 AM PST by redpoll
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To: TexasFreeper2009

All states have taxpayer subsidized state universities that wave tuition for low income students.

Why do we need to expand on this???


15 posted on 02/09/2012 10:58:54 AM PST by outpostinmass2
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To: outpostinmass2
‘Educators’ like this indoctrinating the next generation is why we are screwed. The ‘government’ should provide the needs of all the people. Everything is a right. Geesh. And they are not the least bit ashamed to spew such crap.
16 posted on 02/09/2012 10:59:00 AM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Maverick68

you beat me t it.

If these socialist professors and colleges want others to have free education or cheaper education then let these professors work for free or half their wages and then the colleges can ask for half.

Silly me of curse they will not, professors preach socialism but only if others pay for it and it does not hurt their pockets.


17 posted on 02/09/2012 10:59:29 AM PST by manc (FOX, DRUDGE, HAS BEEN DISGUSTING IN THEIR BIASED ATTACKS V NEWT. I HATE OUR BIASED LIBERAL MEDIA.)
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To: outpostinmass2
Our forefathers decided school was a good thing and offered public schools to the general population. Towns had their one room schoolhouse and their teacher.

The other alternative was basically a work/study program...learning a trade in a working environment.

The more affluent went to private schools or went to Europe to study.

The bottom line...you want something....work for it. THAT'S the American way.

18 posted on 02/09/2012 11:00:33 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: outpostinmass2

If the people want the gov’t. to pay for something, that’s fine, but please don’t call it a right. Rights have been created for people to steal from their neighbors, the right not to be offended, the right commit sodomy, the right to kill the unborn, etc. William O. Douglas want trees and wild geese to have rights. Where does it end and how does it not cheapen those substantive and genuine rights that our servicemen have died for?


19 posted on 02/09/2012 11:01:39 AM PST by Spok (Who is Sam Zemurray?)
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To: redpoll

I’m married to one and she’s mine and she’s a great cook on top of all that too.


20 posted on 02/09/2012 11:03:08 AM PST by manc (FOX, DRUDGE, HAS BEEN DISGUSTING IN THEIR BIASED ATTACKS V NEWT. I HATE OUR BIASED LIBERAL MEDIA.)
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To: outpostinmass2

My cousin works part time at Western Michigan University. She wants to work full time because all full time employees get a full paid hour per day to work out in the gym.

I wonder how much money that wastes overall in a week?


21 posted on 02/09/2012 11:03:41 AM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: outpostinmass2

State universities _were_ free in California, a long time ago.

It’s amusing, sort of, to watch Californians pine for more “free” stuff, as they circle the drain.


22 posted on 02/09/2012 11:04:00 AM PST by Freedom4US
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To: outpostinmass2
Nobody has a “right” that it is incumbent upon someone else to provide for them.

Someone does not have a “right” to insist I teach them everything I know about Molecular Biology without compensation.

Nobody has a “right” to insist that you fix their car for free.

Nobody has a “right” to insist a Doctor perform a procedure on them for free.

Nobody has a “right” to the compelled and non-compensated labor of another.

Teaching is a labor. Some students are more laborious to teach than others.

23 posted on 02/09/2012 11:07:14 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: marron

“Thou shalt have no other gods before” the government.


24 posted on 02/09/2012 11:07:38 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: outpostinmass2
Such a policy for me is a no-brainer. It significantly reduces the financial burden on parents and on students. No longer would a father and mother have to consider taking a second mortgage on their home or perhaps a second job to put their child through school. No longer would three college roommates have to have eight jobs between them (as my roommates and myself did in 1990).

With emphasis on the "no brain" part...

It appears to me that the writer is nothing more, or less, than a VERY typical spoiled, selfish, narcissistic, socialistic, anti-capitalist liberal. His 'thesis' boils down to: "I want everything to be given to me and mine, free of charge; I want everything to be given to me and mine right NOW; and I want everything to be given to me and mine without any personal effort or personal sacrifice on the part of me and/or mine..."

25 posted on 02/09/2012 11:08:18 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
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To: outpostinmass2
What if, instead of proposing policies geared towards individual middle-class tax-payers that revolved around the assumption that higher education was an individual’s responsibility, the president instead proposed policies geared towards embedding higher education as an individual right. What if, instead of getting a tax write-off after you’ve already paid your son/daughter’s tuition, you instead didn’t have to worry about education because the government would pay for it?

But who pays for the government?

I want to take the socialism critique first. The reality is that even here we routinely spend a significant amount of our government’s resources on subsidies, on what tea party supporters might call “socialist policies.” For instance, in 2009 the government spent almost $86 billion on home ownership subsidies in the form of the mortgage interest deduction, subsidizing the home purchases of almost 35 million citizens. In 2010 the government spent almost $104 billion.

These guys can never see the difference between allowing one to keep a bit more of what he has earned, and a gift of money not earned. When you never contribute anything to society, I guess your sense of value diminishes.

26 posted on 02/09/2012 11:09:15 AM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: Maverick68

“as long as ALL college professors and administrators agree to work for free...”

Or, at least, make it like the USMA Cadets and USNA Midshipmen are obligated to, i.e., doing five years service to pay back the ‘free’ education.


27 posted on 02/09/2012 11:10:07 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: 1rudeboy

; - )


28 posted on 02/09/2012 11:11:16 AM PST by WayneS (Comments now include 25% MORE sarcasm for no additional charge...)
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To: outpostinmass2

Along with your “right” to a college education will come the government’s “right” to specify what degree you pursue.

So, if the government decides there aren’t enough Lesbian poetry majors, that’s where you might find yourself.


29 posted on 02/09/2012 11:11:16 AM PST by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: outpostinmass2

While he’s at it, I want the right to be a millionaire. And a pony.


30 posted on 02/09/2012 11:14:43 AM PST by jboot
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To: outpostinmass2
Why not a right to a college education?

because the world needs ditch diggers and garbage men too ???

or how about, if *everybody* has a degree, who will be the employees in the company when *everybody* is the CEO ???

and this dumbass is a teacher...heheheh...

31 posted on 02/09/2012 11:15:04 AM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: outpostinmass2
Dear me, the man claims to be a "Political Scientist," but I suspect that he would be hard pressed to explain how much scientific methodology, his airborne musing offers!

In the American context--the traditional American context--political proposals should start with reasoned analysis. What distinguishes the American way from much of the world's--and especially every form of Socialism--is that our ideals & values were grounded on experience driven reason. (See America Grounded On Experience & Reason.)

The Founding Fathers clearly learned from the experiences of their immediate forebears, who had literally built social/political economies from the ground up. They understood that the Government was not just something, mystically available to solve human problems, but something created by men, to serve specific needs. And they understood that for a society to work well, it needed to rely at every stage, and in every area of concern, on a maximum degree of individual responsibility.

That, of course, applies to education, as to everything else.

What the Professor seems not even to grasp, is that his proposal is not some whimsical idea; not some altruistic reform; but a complete inversion of concepts that once were literally axiomatic to Americans. In brief, he would turn things upside down, without any serious recognition of the key factors involved. This, unfortunately, is a good picture of the academic mind, today, in much of America. It would probably also represent the thinking of Mrs. Pelosi & Harry Reid.

What it is not, is a rational analysis of any educational problem or solution.

William Flax

32 posted on 02/09/2012 11:19:34 AM PST by Ohioan
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To: outpostinmass2

If he wants to reduce the cost of college, he should offer to teach for free.

As the great Walter Williams phrased it, “In order for one person to get something without paying for it, another person must pay for something without getting it”.

Somehow, I suspect our esteemed author is not interested in working for free to provide free education, but has no problem with demanding other people work for free to provide a free education.


33 posted on 02/09/2012 11:20:54 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: outpostinmass2

One good way to reduce the cost of college would be to eliminate tenure.


34 posted on 02/09/2012 11:22:38 AM PST by Maceman (Liberals' only problem with American slavery is that the slaves were privately owned.)
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To: outpostinmass2

My view: Why don't you pay of my kid's college loans first, you greedy little b*stard?


(to the author, not the poster)
35 posted on 02/09/2012 11:23:46 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Fresh Wind

From one college professor to the Free republic group. I disagree with this professor at John Hopkins. I, too, teach political science and educate my students about the value of limited government; constitutional republic and free-markets.

Let me say why I’m opposed beyond just the immoral aspects of granting money to students to go to college and not do anything to pay it back. A lot of college students are apathetic and use financial aid for basic living expenses. These funds are designed to PAY FOR a student to earn a college degree, not to be an income stream.

From my vantage point - more federal money inflates the cost of an education and lowers the quality of education in many ways. Students don’t believe they have to put forth an effort, instead, they think attend and a degree is handed to them. In their world a degree equals a great job and salary with no work.

Students at my institution are apathetic, ignorant and ill prepared to handle college course work. A right to a college degree only cheapens the college degree that others have really struggled to earn.


36 posted on 02/09/2012 11:26:24 AM PST by ccwman
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To: outpostinmass2

The World needs Ditch Diggers Too!!!


37 posted on 02/09/2012 11:26:54 AM PST by BradtotheBone (Moderate Democrat - A politician whose voting record leans left and whose vote can be bought.)
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To: paul51

Part of the problem is the cost of education at the University level. Tuition is going up every year and far outpaces inflation. When tuition goes up government raises the amount that can be borrowed on student loans. This cycle goes on year after year, when you throw in the mix of the University’s supporting and pushing the socialist agenda with everything from political correctness to global warming and they keep getting government grants to study these things and they keep finding results that lend credence to the socialist in the government you begin to understand why it is so expensive and we have so many communist professors with tenure and nothing to do other than promote their agenda.


38 posted on 02/09/2012 11:27:23 AM PST by duffee (NEWT 2012)
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To: duffee

Someone has to pay for the new 5 million dollar student center and 15 million dollar athetic complex you know!

These idiots going to these schools are going on nothing more than a 1k a week 4 year vacation.


39 posted on 02/09/2012 11:28:55 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: outpostinmass2

Mandatory education should end at 8th grade.

High school should be free, conditional on an entrance exam, good behavior, and satisfactory performance. Only about 35% of the population will graduate, based on IQ and behavior.

College is for less than 10% of the population - given the current state of high schools, probably much less. I’m fine making it free AS LONG AS you demonstrate an IQ of 110 or above, pass a rigorous entrance exam (SAT 1100 or equivalent) and take at least 16 credits/semester with GPA>2.5, and sign an agreement to serve in the military for 3 years after graduation, if invited.


40 posted on 02/09/2012 11:30:26 AM PST by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: outpostinmass2

College has become largely an industry which exists for the purpose of providing employment and benefits for those working for the college.


41 posted on 02/09/2012 11:33:54 AM PST by vortigern
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To: Jim Noble

My take on this demand for making every “want” under the sun a “right”.

You have no “rights” that involve an involuntary cost on another person.


42 posted on 02/09/2012 11:34:00 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: outpostinmass2

Strike Against Tuition! Strike Against Tuition! Strike Against Tuition! College students! Unite and boycott all universities this Fall! Demand that tuition be reduced by 75%! The jackbooted college professors have their heel on your throat! Throw off their tyranny! The students have the money! The professors have the BMWs! The old plantation massah college professors are sipping mint juleps and taking vacations to Mexico while the sharecropper students live in poverty! Cast off the shackles! Boycott the university next Fall!

Hell no!
You can’t go!
You can’t go to Mexico!
Down with the oppressive running-dog university professors!


43 posted on 02/09/2012 11:44:50 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: outpostinmass2

Im confused, who doesn’t have a right to a college education? Are there people who are barred from attending college?


44 posted on 02/09/2012 11:45:41 AM PST by Tramonto (Draft Palin)
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To: outpostinmass2
Education is a SERVICE. It requires buildings, books, competent teachers and utilities. The parties using a service should be the parties paying for the service. Foisting the burden onto others not using the service is unreasonable. In an ideal world, the service would be provided by a private business. The success of that business would be tied to the quality of their product.

A right is something that an individual may possess without burdening or infringing on another individual. An "entitlement" is a better label for something of tangible value due an individual. The Constitution doesn't contain a "Bill of Entitlements" nor is the list of enumerated "powers" tasked with redistributing wealth from one citizen to another.

45 posted on 02/09/2012 11:48:31 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: outpostinmass2
His bio:

"Lester K. Spence is an Assistant Professor of Political Science and Africana Studies at Johns Hopkins University."

That's all I needed to know. He has a bogus degree that is akin to a degree in Midevil pottery making. The only job you get from this degree is to be a college professor. No real world application. So he's immune to the real world.

" For instance, in 2009 the government spent almost $86 billion on home ownership subsidies in the form of the mortgage interest deduction, subsidizing the home purchases of almost 35 million citizens. In 2010 the government spent almost $104 billion."

Mindset of a socialist here. He calls a tax break, subsidizing people. Why? Because all money is the government's money and if the government lets you have more than someone else, you're getting subsidized. But I'm all with you prof. Let's have a flat income tax across the board and no tax breaks for anything. Better yet, lets do away with the income tax and just implement a consumption tax. But don't think for a second that college education is a "right"...
46 posted on 02/09/2012 11:48:46 AM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: outpostinmass2

What this lib is really saying, is that he doesn’t want to save money to pay for his 5 kids’ college education. Or ask them to get a real, paying job, and pay their own way. He wants to tax away the money I saved for my 5 kids’ college education to pay for his kids.

I want the right liberty and freedom to keep these moochers out of my pocket book.


47 posted on 02/09/2012 11:50:00 AM PST by RedElement
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To: outpostinmass2

I believe I have a right to a tax payer funded PhD in something useless, and I’d like to spend a lifetime pursuing this degree all funded by my fellow citizens (including housing, food, transportation, etc).


48 posted on 02/09/2012 11:50:00 AM PST by Longbow1969
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To: TexasFreeper2009

A front porche or a back porche?


49 posted on 02/09/2012 11:50:27 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Second post, right out of the box!

I’m more of that new NSX kind of guy though.


50 posted on 02/09/2012 11:53:38 AM PST by MarkeyD (Obama is a victim of Affirmative Action)
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