Posted on 02/13/2012 3:47:38 PM PST by ColdOne
DENVER – Lawmakers in at least four US states are considering legislation that would make students repeat third grade if they can't pass state reading exams, reviving debates about whether retaining students boosts achievement or increases their odds of dropping out.
A bipartisan group of lawmakers in Colorado introduced legislation early this month that would prod schools to hold back children in kindergarten through third grade who don't meet state reading standards. In the early grades, parents could insist the child be promoted, but at third grade, the school district would have the ultimate say.
"The goal is not to retain students, but to get parents, teachers and students all working collaboratively to address the literacy problems when they first show up," said Colorado state Sen. Mike Johnston, a Democrat who is a sponsor of the bill.
Iowa, New Mexico and Tennessee also are considering bills on the issue.
All the bills, as well as similar ones passed recently in Oklahoma, Arizona and Indiana, aim to address literacy deficiencies that exist nationwide. Only one third of US schoolchildren had proficient scores on the most recent national reading exam, and scores have barely budged in two decades. That comes as children have made steady gains in math.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
“There should be standards at every step of the way, no social promotions.
A diploma should indicate something more than time spent aggravating teachers.”
Amen, amen, amen!
Third grade ~ by then the kid is 8 or 9. He should have been reading 6 years already. If he doesn’t read by this time, a repetition of third grade isn’t going to help.
But they won’t do that with math exams for ninth-graders, will they.
BTW, privatize it all.
And a social promotion to fourth grade will?
Yes. Holding him back won’t help him or the other children. Or, you could let him just stay at home. Why do you need that kid at school except to get the state payment per student day.
How will a social promotion to a grade for which he's unprepared help a student?
It was very frustrating, when I taught 9th grade science (physical science) and probably half the class couldn’t read at grade level. It’s impossible to teach them when they cannot read the text book. I’m all for whatever it takes to teach them to read. I think home school is wonderful and if every parent wants to keep their kids and home and teach them I say, “Right on!” However it’s never going to happen. And so, we need to figure out how to teach as many kids as possible to read, at the very least.
And we used to do that. I have plenty of ideas as to how we have ruined a perfectly good system, but the fact remains. We need to fix it. BTW I was reading before I started school (my Mom taught me, but I don’t think any of my brothers or sisters were reading when they started school). And none of my 3 boys were reading when they started school. All 3 were quickly reading above grade level once they started being taught, at school. I only mention this to say that it’s not essential that they be taught before K’garten for them to succeed. All 3 of mine have college degrees, one has an MBA.
I don’t know what their plan is. But if they don’t teach them to read they might as well send them home.
I never saw a TV until I was 10, a neighbor bought one. Daddy bought a kit from somewhere, I was 11, he soldered it all together and we had a TV, but it had a big rectangular magnifying glass in front of a little picture tube. My part in the effort was sorting resistors by the color coded stripes.
When I look at the way most people live today I'm almost surprised that any kids really learn anything, it's all spectator sport, no active participation.
I've answered it completely ~ he's as prepared as he's going to be. Repeating third grade will not increase his level of preparedness.
You need to supplement traditional box down school indoctrination with other materials and techniques.
I do agree with you. Reading was a huge part of my life growing up, my Mom read to me (probably why I could read when Is started school —I remember pretending to read when I was very small, I wanted to read so badly). And I was the kid in class that was always in trouble for rushing thru my work so I could pull out my latest book and read, I was always reading books that were ahead of what we were reading in that grade.
My own kids were also immersed in books, I read to them every night before bedtime (and during the day as well). In fact, I’m expecting my first grandchild soon and have been going thru their books (boxes and boxes!) to send on to my son for their child. Plus perusing the used book store for other ones since kids books don’t always live thru the experience if they are well used (by three boys). I do also have some of my old books. I know it’s not boy stuff but I loved the Raggedy Ann and Andy set my Mom bought me when I was about 10. I don’t have all of them anymore but I have a few of them. I will keep them to read to my Grandchildren when they visit.
And I so agree about TV. My own kids laugh now about how little TV I let them watch. When I was a kid there wasn’t that much on, so it wasn’t as big an issue.
I've answered it completely ~ he's as prepared as he's going to be. Repeating third grade will not increase his level of preparedness.
No, it was not a rhetorical question and, no, you didn't answer it at all, let alone completely.
I questioned whether advancing the student would help the him and you said yes.
I then asked how it would help him. You haven't explained if or how it would help. You're just replying that repeating the grade won't help because "he's as prepared as he's going to be". Your claim that repeating the grade won't help him doesn't answer the question of how advancing him will.
Do you think the intent of school should be to punish children?
Look, we have more methods available to us today than they did in the good old days so we don't even need schools.
You keep asking me if I want social promotions, but that's meaningless in light of the problem with the child who hasn't been already reading for 6 years by the the time he gets to 3rd grade. You are dealing with a special needs kid ~ and you need to use different methods, not just hit him up side the head with the same old same old.
If they haven't mastered 3rd grade material adequately, then they shouldn't go on to 4th grade. I don't care if they drop out or not - that's their problem. My problem is that I'm a taxpayer and I'm paying for a severely defective product. If I'm going to have the fruit of my labor stolen to support someone else's kid's education, the least they could do is actually educate them.
Flunk 'em if they don't pass muster. The ones that care will try harder, while the ones that don't will do what they've been doing anyway - drop out and turn to a life of crime.
A high school diploma doesn't mean squat any more.
It won't, but it will certainly hold the rest of the class back while the teacher caters to the lowest achiever.
That would be hard to prove conclusively. It still seems to me to be the most efficient way of reviewing failed subjects. Of course, you have to understand that I came from a rural school in the sixties where, perhaps, one child needed to be held back in a given year.
When we're talking 1/4 to 1/2 of the class; other problems are at work.
“If you are not going to improve, how does doing it over help?”
In my experience, 9/10ths of students that do not pass are pretty much making no effort to do so. Retention helps them understand that they have to actually perform in order to be promoted to the next grade, which also reflects reality outside the classroom in many ways. Just sending them on without having them meet any academic standard informs them that they need not perform to in order to achieve promotion, thus they do not. Getting them to understand that the latter notion is an error IS the improvement.
Do you enjoy talking in circles? You're presuming that repeating a grade can't help a student learn the material. I disagree with that presumption.
Do you think the intent of school should be to punish children?
Of course not, the intent is to teach them. Do you think that graduating functional illiterates is the intent of school?
Look, we have more methods available to us today than they did in the good old days so we don't even need schools.
But those methods can't be employed for those students who are repeating a grade? Again, I disagree with your presumption.
You keep asking me if I want social promotions, but that's meaningless in light of the problem with the child who hasn't been already reading for 6 years by the the time he gets to 3rd grade.
I'm not asking if you want social promotions; you've already made it quite clear that you're all for social promotions. What I'm asking you to do is to point out the benefits of social promotions and, so far, you haven't.
You are dealing with a special needs kid ~ and you need to use different methods, not just hit him up side the head with the same old same old.
And you have based your special-needs assessment on what? Again, you're presuming something that isn't necessarily true. The tests don't only determine whether or not a kid can read. They also determine the student's reading proficiency. A third-grader who can't read at all should have been identified, possibly as a special-needs student, well before third grade. A struggling reader, on the other hand, could benefit from reviewing the third grade material before going on to fourth grade.
Retention in and of itself does nothing to address anything.
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