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Gay by Choice? (Or by Birth?)
Christian Post ^ | 02/13/2012 | Charles Colson

Posted on 02/13/2012 6:27:02 PM PST by SeekAndFind

For years we have been told that homosexuality is something people are born with - like the color of one's skin - and that it can't be changed. Gay-rights activists insist this is so, because, they say, if people don't choose to be gay, it would be wrong to discriminate against them in things like marriage, adoption, and legal benefits.

And heaven help those who disagree. Just ask actress Cynthia Nixon, who in a recent New York Times Magazine article, had the gall to admit that she chose to be gay.

Nixon, who played one of the characters on the old "Sex in the City" television series, was involved in 15-year relationship with a man that produced two children. Now, however, Nixon has moved on to a so-called "gay" relationship with a woman. In the article, Nixon is quoted about her sexual life, "For me, it is a choice. I understand that for many people it's not, but for me it's a choice, and you don't get to define my gayness for me."

Curiously, gay activists, who in almost any other instance would celebrate a "woman's choice," are really upset. "Cynthia did not put adequate thought into the ramifications of her words," said Wayne Besen, founder of Truth Wins Out, which opposes programs that seek to cure people of homosexuality. "When people say it's a choice," Besen added, "they are green-lighting an enormous amount of abuse."

No, what Nixon is green-lighting is the dangerous idea that people make choices about their sexual lifestyle. And that's a clear and present danger to the agenda of the gay-rights movement. That agenda seeks to prove that the gay lifestyle is natural and inevitable. But friends, there is absolutely no proof, and there'll probably never be any proof, that people are "born gay."

University of California, Davis, psychologist Gregory Herek, an "expert on anti-gay prejudice," admits, "The nature vs. nurture debate really is passé. The debate," he said, "is not really an either/or debate in the vast majority of cases, but how much of each. We don't know how big a role biology plays and how big a role culture plays."

Wheaton College's Stan Jones, who has written extensively on the subject, says the best research reveals that homosexual attraction is the result of a complex and mysterious interaction of biological, psychological, and environmental factors that produce different results for different people. Jones, and anyone else who has looked at the evidence in an unbiased way, says that there is no "gay gene."

Thus, the project to - in the words of one pro-gay writer, "make homophobia as inexcusable as racism" - has failed. For some people, homosexuality is a choice, and to whatever extent that is true, the fact is we all have a choice about how we will respond to our various sexual inclinations and express our sexual brokenness.

And, contrary to what we hear, the different sexual choices people make are not all equal. Only one conforms to nature and nature's God.

No, God's Word does not give us a definitive word about the cause of homosexuality, but it is crystal-clear that we need to reject homosexual behavior as sinful, to embrace sex only in the context of marriage between a man and a woman, and to treat everyone we meet - homosexual or not - with love and respect.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: gay; homosexuality
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1 posted on 02/13/2012 6:27:08 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I really cannot see how it can be a choice, I mean speaking for myself, I abhor the thought of getting it on with another man!


2 posted on 02/13/2012 6:30:23 PM PST by marvlus
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To: SeekAndFind

One Chooses to sodomize, it does not come naturally.


3 posted on 02/13/2012 6:35:09 PM PST by eyeamok
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To: SeekAndFind

It doesn’t matter if you are born homosexual or heterosexual, both manifest in behavior and all behavior can be changed.
Personally, I do not beleive anyone is born homosexual, the biology makes no sense and I do not know a single homosexual that doesn’t have some over the top story about their childhood when they suddenly realize they are homosexual.


4 posted on 02/13/2012 6:36:34 PM PST by svcw (Only difference between Romney & BH is one thinks he will be god & other one thinks he already is.)
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To: SeekAndFind
So it is either a birth defect or immoral behavior. What it isn't is a lifestyle.
5 posted on 02/13/2012 6:36:47 PM PST by Patrick1 (" Let's all pray Kim Kardashian's divorce won't have an impact on her craft.")
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To: SeekAndFind

The whole Gay, Lesbo, transgendered agenda carp is constantly thrown up in all our collective faces. No wonder the Almighty sent a ‘little’ hailstorm over Sodom and Gommorah when He simply said, ‘enough’.


6 posted on 02/13/2012 6:38:57 PM PST by tflabo (Truth or tyranny)
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To: SeekAndFind

There is a male versus female argument on this, lesbians tend to say it is a choice, and homos say it is genetic.

Part of feminism was to choose to only have sex with women, it was a political choice.


7 posted on 02/13/2012 6:38:57 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: SeekAndFind
No one has found a "gay gene". No one has even found signs that epigenetics is playing a part. But it's not over yet ~ "they" have discovered that there are micro-RNA bits from plants that we eat (e.g. rice) that can penetrate the gut directly and get into the blood stream.

There they travel throughout the body and enter cell nucleuses where they INSTRUCT the cells to do certain things.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/09/21/what-you-eat-affects-your-genes-rna-from-rice-can-survive-digestion-and-alter-gene-expression/

8 posted on 02/13/2012 6:39:39 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t know and don’t care how people come to be homosexual. It’s a discusting un-natural sexual perversion.


9 posted on 02/13/2012 6:40:08 PM PST by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: marvlus

Why did you sound apologetic and pc? The thought of getting it on with a homo makes me wanna puke.


10 posted on 02/13/2012 6:40:19 PM PST by max americana (Buttcrack Obama is an idiot)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think there is a huge difference between men and women when it comes to this subject. I don’t think many men “choose” to be homosexual, and few could if they wanted to. OTOH, women are much more fluid (no pun intended) in their sexuality, so many can choose to be with a woman and enjoy it, while still liking men. Of course there are always exceptions. If you think about it, why would homosezuality be the same for men and women when nothing else is?


11 posted on 02/13/2012 6:43:11 PM PST by Hugin ("Most time a man'll tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear"--Open Range)
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To: SeekAndFind

The day they can identify a fetus as “gay” the left will make abortion a hate crime.


12 posted on 02/13/2012 6:44:43 PM PST by Caipirabob (I say we take off and Newt the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...)
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To: SeekAndFind

Pretty much every lesbian woman I know, albeit not 100’s, was sexually abused as a child.

Our brain keep developing into our 20’s. I’m sure that our environment has some input to that development.


13 posted on 02/13/2012 6:46:01 PM PST by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: SeekAndFind
It's a choice...not a gene.

Dysgenic genes take themselves out of the pool.

Organisms that don't reproduce don't stick around very long...usually just long enough to die.

The actual number of homosexuals in a population due to genetics - some sort of psychological aberration, or a polymorphism - will always approach zero and never be persistent in any case. Because it isn't survivable...

'Cuz that's just not the way it works, folks.

Funny how "progressives" pride themselves on believing Evolution. They obviously have no clue what the theory says.

14 posted on 02/13/2012 6:47:11 PM PST by Regulator
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s a choice, like most things we do in life.


15 posted on 02/13/2012 6:47:11 PM PST by meyer (We will not sit down and shut up.)
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To: SeekAndFind

w.f.c.?


16 posted on 02/13/2012 6:49:02 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (religion + guns = liberty)
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To: svcw

Liberals keep saying it’s a woman’s right to choose,
so it must be a gay’s right to choose too.

Gay gene hooey.
I mean if there’s a gay gene, then there might be a
liberal gene...maybe there’s something to this eugenics
stuff after all. Snuff out liberalism, have YOUR baby
tested today.


17 posted on 02/13/2012 6:50:15 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: meyer

If being gay were a gene, it would be a self-extincting trait because being gay by definition means no reproduction. If you don’t reproduce, your traits perish.


18 posted on 02/13/2012 6:51:12 PM PST by meyer (We will not sit down and shut up.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." - I Cor. 6:9-11
19 posted on 02/13/2012 6:51:16 PM PST by DrewsDad (Environmental Extremism Eventually Endangers Everyone)
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To: Hugin
I think there is a huge difference between men and women when it comes to this subject. I don’t think many men “choose” to be homosexual, and few could if they wanted to.

You would be amazed by the behaviours that humans chose to pursue. Behaviours ranging from incest to cannibalism to "cutting." There are humans who choose to engage in a wide variety of unnatural and/or self-destructive behaviours.
20 posted on 02/13/2012 6:51:45 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: Patrick1

Did you ever read this article?

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/11/09/former-rugby-player-claims-stroke-turned-him-gay/

You can’t extrapolate from a single instance, of course, but this makes it sounds like a defect of some sort.

It’s stunning how far the left has coming in defining down deviancy. If they succeed in normalizing homosexuality, I have little doubt that they’ll move on to polygamy, pedophilia (as long as it’s “consensual,” they’ll say), and bestiality.


21 posted on 02/13/2012 6:51:45 PM PST by Cato in PA (1/26/12: Bloody Thursday)
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To: SeekAndFind

Some are just trying to get attention...but others, I believe, are born gay. Even so, it is still a deviancy, and no less an abnormality than being born with an extra toe. I.e., it is proper to attempt to remedy this abnormality.


22 posted on 02/13/2012 6:52:03 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: meyer

One of my best friends had a son who from his early childhood wanted to play with the girls, with dolls, none of the usual boy stuff. As a young man he tried with various women but nothing “took”. Finally he admitted he was gay and his mother said she always knew he was different. She also has a normal son.

The gays I’ve known all said they were born that way. Since I was born straight this is something I can understand....sort of.


23 posted on 02/13/2012 6:54:55 PM PST by Aria ( "If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.")
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To: SeekAndFind
I was kind of hoping Colson would add his unique perspective to the taboo subject of male(or female) prison sex. If that isn't a perfect example of a person deciding to modify sexual behavior, then one doesn't exist.
24 posted on 02/13/2012 6:55:43 PM PST by Tex-Con-Man (T. Coddington Van Voorhees VII 2012 - "Together, I Shall Ride You To Victory")
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To: SeekAndFind
All you need to know about whether or not homosexuality is right or wrong, good or bad, is that if everyone in society was a homosexual, society would cease to exist. Relative to mankind, it's not possible for there to be anything more inherently wrong than homosexuality.
25 posted on 02/13/2012 6:58:38 PM PST by bramps (Cama, Cama, Cama Chameleon.)
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To: marvlus

Two things.

1. Most homosexuals were molested as children. I’m going to go out on a limb and say all of them were, whether or not they are aware of it.

2. I was born with a pre-disposition to alcoholism. That does not give me the license to go through life as a drunk. In fact, I never touch the stuff - anymore.


26 posted on 02/13/2012 6:59:28 PM PST by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Hugin
Jones, and anyone else who has looked at the evidence in an unbiased way, says that there is no "gay gene."

What strikes me as being a really peculiar example of secular humanistic double think is the idea of the "gay gene". Juxtapose that with the central idea of naturalistic evolution, adaptation and "survival of the fittest". The idea that successful adaptations result in greater opportunities to breed, thereby spreading that successful trait to most if not all of the species after generations is directly contrary to what gayness does... which is not create any progeny whatsoever. If human homo-ism was genetic, it would have been bred completely out of us eons ago, according to naturalistic science.

27 posted on 02/13/2012 7:00:49 PM PST by L,TOWM (Once you see that it is all Kabuki Theater, you are free to quit wasting your time on politics.)
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To: Army Air Corps

I don’t think anyone just gets up one morning and says “Hey, maybe I’ll try cutting myself today. Sounds like fun!” That kind of self-destructive behavior is more obsesve/compulsive than choice, IMHO. Not that people can’t change, but it’s a battle with themselves to do it.


28 posted on 02/13/2012 7:02:10 PM PST by Hugin ("Most time a man'll tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear"--Open Range)
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To: SeekAndFind

I do quite a bit of psychological work with gays and lesbians. It’s pretty easy to demonstrate and prove that gender selection in a relationship is totally what is intellectually acceptable.

The “chemistry attraction” in relationships is caused by the attraction toward the masculine or feminine aspect of consciousness. I have only ever encountered one lesbian relationship where both were masculine and made used an intellectual check list to enter their relationship. Usually there is one dominate masculine and one dominate feminine in each relationship, gay or straight.

A feminine straight man would just look for a masculine woman if it is intellectually unacceptable to be in a gay relationship.


29 posted on 02/13/2012 7:03:04 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: marvlus

Don’t discount the alcohol and/or drug abuse that is part & parcel to lowering inhibitions as well as adult homosexuals hitting on young teens creating all kinds of sexual confusion. Step it up a notch to the brainwashing going on in colleges, public schools and the culture for the past 30 years, and VOILA! Today one of my coworkers told me about her son who is in kindergarten bringing home books for them to read together. One was about gay penguins and the other was about all the different kinds of families - the ones with two dads and two moms. Why not one dad and five moms or one dad and a very handsome horse? Just a matter of time.


30 posted on 02/13/2012 7:05:16 PM PST by Sioux-san
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To: marvlus
Whatever one fantasizes about becomes real. That's why porn is so damaging.
31 posted on 02/13/2012 7:08:26 PM PST by donna (I want to live in a Judeo/Christian country where we know that, before God, men & women are equal.)
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To: KosmicKitty
Pretty much every lesbian woman I know, albeit not 100’s, was sexually abused as a child.

Bingo... I don’t know that many women who call themselves lesbians either but every single one I do (100% of the cases in fact) was sexually abused as a child. In fact, it was the same MO in each case.... Divorced or separated mom shacks up with some guy who ends up having sex with the daughter(s). Daughter grows up hating men. This turns the question of ‘choice’ or ‘born that way’ on to its ear.... in these cases, it was neither. It was a curse forced on to them by a third party. They didn’t ask for it, they didn’t want it.... but the end result was a twisted view of the sexual facet of their being.

32 posted on 02/13/2012 7:14:35 PM PST by hecticskeptic
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To: bramps
Relative to mankind, it's not possible for there to be anything more inherently wrong than homosexuality.

DING DING DING ... we have a winner!!

33 posted on 02/13/2012 7:17:28 PM PST by Fast Moving Angel (Newt's not a perfect candidate but Jesus isn't running this year. - shoff)
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To: SeekAndFind
First you have to define “gay”. If it is having sex with a person of the same sex..... then it is a choice. Just as hetros CHOOSE to have sex, so do homos. Acting on it is the defining moment, but mostly it's about the aberrant sex. It's a turn on. It's a taboo that some find alluring. It's just about the sex.
34 posted on 02/13/2012 7:17:52 PM PST by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Aria

One of my best friends had a son who from his early childhood wanted to play with the girls, with dolls, none of the usual boy stuff. As a young man he tried with various women but nothing “took”. Finally he admitted he was gay and his mother said she always knew he was different. She also has a normal son.

The gays I’ve known all said they were born that way.


This is my experience regarding every gay acquaintance I know well enough to know their history.

Correction, I should say gay MALE. And they weren’t all (or any) sexually abused. They just always like flower arranging and such since their youth.

And one, when married for 25 years (to a woman) led me to comment on becoming acquainted (”if he weren’t married, I’d swear he was gay.”) After his wife died, he “came out” without surprising me.

I suspect for women it’s very different, and majority are “gay” as the result of abuse, abandonment of a failed effort to attract a man, choice, or some combination.

They all make great neighbors because they keep their house and yards nice.

These are all just my own personal observations, and lead me to belief but not certainty.


35 posted on 02/13/2012 7:24:39 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Author of BullionBible.com - Makes You a Precious Metal Expert, Guaranteed.)
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To: SeekAndFind
God's Word does not give us a definitive word about the cause of homosexuality,

Like any sin, it's from the pit. It's a choice. “For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.” – Proverbs 23:7

36 posted on 02/13/2012 7:26:22 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: bramps

All you need to know about whether or not homosexuality is right or wrong, good or bad, is that if everyone in society was a homosexual, society would cease to exist. Relative to mankind, it’s not possible for there to be anything more inherently wrong than homosexuality.


What if there were some competitive advantage to a genetic society that had a small percentage on non-child-rearers, who arranged the flowers, and gave the gals a shoulder to cry on? My examples are dumb, but I’m serious.

If everyone were a truck driver there’d be no goods to deliver and we’d all starve to death, but that doesn’t make truck driving inherently bad.

Gay sex is a sin. As is sex outside of marriage, and masturbation. But none of that’s going away any time soon.


37 posted on 02/13/2012 7:28:25 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Author of BullionBible.com - Makes You a Precious Metal Expert, Guaranteed.)
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To: Beelzebubba

Did he have a father?


38 posted on 02/13/2012 7:30:31 PM PST by donna (I want to live in a Judeo/Christian country where we know that, before God, men & women are equal.)
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To: tet68
"Gay gene hooey. I mean if there’s a gay gene, then there might be a liberal gene..."

I saw an article not long ago that claimed someone had identified a liberal gene, no joke. Any genetics engineers in the house? I know where you can find a job.

39 posted on 02/13/2012 7:30:31 PM PST by lwoodham (Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.)
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To: donna

Did he have a father?


Yep. A tough, strict, military officer.


40 posted on 02/13/2012 7:32:08 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Author of BullionBible.com - Makes You a Precious Metal Expert, Guaranteed.)
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To: marvlus

Sex mates are recruited - and I really mean recruited - by active homosexuals.


41 posted on 02/13/2012 7:32:21 PM PST by SootyFoot2
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To: SeekAndFind

Like a million little doorways
All the choices we made
All the stages we passed through
All the roles we played
For so many different directions
Our separate paths might have turned
With every door that we opened
Every bridge that we burned
- Rush, “Ghost of a Chance”

I don’t think it’s one choice, it’s part of the accumulation of hunderds of choices we make every day. How does anyone become what they are? In just about everything, it’s little by little.


42 posted on 02/13/2012 7:32:40 PM PST by Gil4 (Sometimes it's not low self-esteem - it's just accurate self-assessment.)
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To: svcw
Let me take your thought one step further... I personally refuse to use the words ‘homosexual’ and ‘heterosexual’ (or its variations) since to use those words carry with it the implication that the user acknowledges that these are very real concepts that are on some kind of level playing field with each other.... you are either this or that period. The idea of someone being a ‘heterosexual’ or a ‘homosexual’ is actually a very recent one. There has of course always been the notion of sexuality and that it, like mental, emotional or physical aspects, was just another part of the human development. And, there has always been homosexual acts... in the Bible, these are totally condemned in the strongest language possible although it needs to be recognized that all sexual acts outside of marriage are condemned totally. Rather than a language that uses homosexuality and heterosexuality to define the basic elements of the person’s humanity, how about using the words normal and natural on one side as opposed to depraved and perverted for the other side? And instead of using language that attributes some intrinsic characteristic on to a person on the basis that all it takes is for that person to say that he/she is defined by that characteristic (when there is nothing to prove it one way or another), why play that game at all? It is a bit cumbersome but the closest that I ever get to calling somebody a homosexual is to call them someone ‘who has self-identified himself/herself as one who would rather engage in sexual acts with member of their own sex as opposed to the opposite sex’. In other words, the focus is on the act, not on some vague idea of what goes on in the mind of the person who is thinking about the act.
43 posted on 02/13/2012 7:43:06 PM PST by hecticskeptic
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To: SeekAndFind

A lot of interesting comments and insights here. I find it hard to believe that anyone in “fly-over” country in the 60’s-70’s period would “choose” to make their life a living hell, while many did exactly that.

As a heterosexual I do not pretend to understand homosexual at all, but I will say whether its genetic or situational is a fairly moot point. They are what they are and it is NOT a choice unless you live in NY or CA. If you have close friends or relatives that are gay you know this “choice” business is a bunch of foolishness.


44 posted on 02/13/2012 7:43:56 PM PST by MrKatykelly
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To: SeekAndFind

I believe they are born with a mental disorder, but they still choose to act upon their impulses.

If you are born attracted to animals and small children, or with an unstoppable urge to steal or to burn things you also have to choose not to act upon those insane impulses.


45 posted on 02/13/2012 7:48:59 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Go Newt!)
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To: SeekAndFind

It has been suggested that there is a biological purpose for homosexuality, linked to one for prostitution. And based on all things, a biological purpose for marriage.

Begin with mammalian reproduction. Males want as many females as possible to have offspring with their DNA. Females both want the best male DNA, and among those mammals that raise their young, the best ‘provider’ male to help them raise their young.

But when there are a lot of males around, it is unlikely that the one with the best DNA is also the best provider.

Humans came up with socially enforced marriage because it is a better deal for all concerned. Greater assurance to the man that his children have his DNA, in exchange for monogamy. And females agree to less than perfect male DNA in exchange for greater assurance the male will stay with her to provide for their children. And the benefits to the children of having two parents is obvious.

However, this creates a problem. That being that while only a percentage of adults *should* have children, many more *want* to have children. But biology does not want them to have children. A conflict.

Enter homosexuality and prostitution. In both cases, they provide an outlet for people who should not breed. This is supported by it being much more likely that both homosexuals and prostitutes have many more genetic and congenital problems than do people as a whole.

Genetic problems that would inhibit reproduction even if they were in a monogamous heterosexual relation.

Because in a way, the biological goal is to keep them from interfering with a breeding couple, which would be bad for the species.


46 posted on 02/13/2012 7:50:03 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Beelzebubba

I have been in the interior design business and the construction business and most of the males in the design world are gay and truly are wayy different people than the construction workers. One could never be the other - even if they wanted to.


47 posted on 02/13/2012 7:50:34 PM PST by Aria ( "If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.")
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To: faucetman
"First you have to define “gay”."

That's easy. Gay means happy, lighthearted and carefree. Too bad the perverted, immoral, diseased, filthy, disgusting and repulsive homosexuals have hijacked the meaning of the word.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

48 posted on 02/13/2012 7:55:10 PM PST by wku man (Who says conservatives don't rock? http://www.bigdawgmusicmafia.com)
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To: SeekAndFind

There is far more evidence that violence is related to genetics than there is evidence that homosexuality is. (For example, a much higher percentage of the prison population has an extra Y chromosome than does the general population.)

Does this mean that violence is to be condoned or excused as natural? No. Some of the so-called genetic predispositions toward violence might rather be channeled toward positive traits such as an intense drive for success or hard work or the doing of great deeds. Most of those who possess extra Y chromosomes never commit any violent crimes.

Likewise, even if a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality is ever found (and it hasn’t been yet), that does not mean that those people are destined for homosexual acts—not any more than those with extra Y chromosomes are destined for violent acts. If genetic tendencies toward homosexual acts are ever found, those genetic traits might rather be channelled toward other ends—perhaps traits such as greater empathy for others, compassion for the downtrodden, etc.

Even heterosexuals aren’t given carte blanche for heterosexual sex. If they cannot find someone who will accept them, they are to keep their pants on—genetic tendencies or not. The same is true if they have found a mate, but desire sex with someone in addition to their spouse. Some sex is not acceptable regardless of desire or genetic makeup.


49 posted on 02/13/2012 7:56:56 PM PST by Engraved-on-His-hands
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To: SeekAndFind
so only BI-sexuals are perverts by choice then???
50 posted on 02/13/2012 8:06:51 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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