Posted on 02/15/2012 1:10:19 PM PST by FewsOrange
Pediatricians fed up with parents who refuse to vaccinate their children out of concern it can cause autism or other problems increasingly are "firing" such families from their practices, raising questions about a doctor's responsibility to these patients.
Medical associations don't recommend such patient bans, but the practice appears to be growing, according to vaccine researchers.
In a study of Connecticut pediatricians published last year, some 30% of 133 doctors said they had asked a family to leave their practice for vaccine refusal, and a recent survey of 909 Midwestern pediatricians found that 21% reported discharging families for the same reason.
By comparison, in 2001 and 2006 about 6% of physicians said they "routinely" stopped working with families ...
Most pediatricians consider preventing disease through vaccines a primary goal of their job. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and AAP issue an annual recommended vaccination schedule, but some parents ask if their child's immunizations can be pushed back or skipped altogether, pediatricians say. While rates for several key inoculations in young children rose between 2009 and 2010, according to the CDC, lower immunization rates have been blamed as a factor in U.S. outbreaks of whooping cough and measles in recent years.
Parents often voice concerns about autism or that their child's immune system may be overwhelmed by too many vaccines at once. Worries about a link between vaccines and autism arose because some parents noticed their children regressed, or lost some skills, around the time of their vaccinations at two years of age. Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative.
Numerous studies since have dispelled these concerns among scientists. Rather, scientists say, it is more likely that autism symptoms begin showing up around the same age children are vaccinated.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
That’s funny, too.
Yeah, I know it’s of interest to homeschoolers.
Vaccination is a big issue in the Jewish community after an outbreak of pertussis in Lakewood, NJ.
“Recently, there have been a number of reported cases of whooping cough in Lakewood, NJ. In fact, two infants were hospitalized in critical condition due to untreated whooping cough. Neither of those infants had been vaccinated against the disease. Doctors have also reported that whooping cough has spread to those who were not vaccinated at an alarmingly quick rate. As a result, Lakewood’s famous senior pediatrician, Dr. Reuven Shanik, publically declared that he would not see any patients whose immunization records were not up-to-date.”
Not remotely.
If I were a Dr., I’m not so sure that I wouldn’t do the same thing. They get sued if they DO something and they get sued if they DON’T!!
Lawyers have cleaned up making doctors the target of the litigious-minded!! And, the lawyers are the only ones making any money!!
“Global warming cultists and the anti-vaccine cultists share the same bad scientific methods.
Remarkably so, in fact.”
Well, then, I quess that’s the end of that. If it’s gubbmint approved, what on earth more is there to question? Unless of course it’s going into you or a family member?
http://www.pharmalot.com/2012/02/house-probes-fda-over-whistleblower-employees/#comments
For the record, the employees accused the FDA of secretly reading their personal email accounts, while the agency maintained they illegally disclosed confidential business information after writing to Congress to complain they were being coerced to approve devices that posed unacceptable risks (back story). And their lawsuit charges the FDA repeatedly attempted to initiate formal criminal investigations and harmed their reputations.
I would rather be stupid than a communist. But since I didn’t miss any childhood vaccines, you will have to come up with something else.
It’s clear you really do not know how to read english.
You are nothing but a freaking liberal with your ends-justify-the-means viewpoint and trying to cover it up under some veneer of your religion to try to pass it off on the gullible who’ll buy that crock of crap.
Me not taking a vaccine harms nobody else. How can I harm you if your precious and perfect vaccine protects you?
You’re insane and people like you ought never to be in positions of power over anyone else.
You are just justifying taking away people’s ability to determine acceptable risk for themselves because somehow you know what’s better for them than they do and you have no problem forcing it onto them in the name of whatever religion you appear to following.
Ironic also you call me a luddite when you’re the one justifying forcing people to get vaccinated because your religion says it’s your duty to force people to do stuff if you think it’s best for them.
Naw, you’re not an effing communist. Get off the board and go home to DU. Seriously.
You must be for Obamacare’s mandate then too.
Obama says his religion beliefs shaped Obamacare and the individual mandate. You’re all for forcing medical decisions and choices against peoples’ will, I am sure you are just happy as hell Obamacare passed.
Hey, Obama knows what you need better than you do. His experts will say they know stuff and say it’s true too. They’re all smarter than you. They must know better than you too.
I don’t doubt the FDA has issues. But vaccines have been around a lot longer than the FDA.
And I understand being annoyed at government ordering you do to things. I hate seatbelt laws. But I wear my seatbelt, and did so before there were such laws.
I’ve been to countries where basic vaccination plans are not in place (e.g., South Sudan). It’s not pretty.
You’re a very silly man.
“This sounds like a marketing opportunity for a medical practice that doesn’t support vaccination.”
Imagine all the interesting diseases you could pick up in *that* waiting room.
Osteopath's are Doctor's. And called D.O.s and addressed as Dr. Smith, or Morris, or whatever.
In fact their training is not much different these days from a M.D. If at all....
FWIW-
Exactly! The choice comes down to the individual, not the state. This is a fundamental tenet of conservatism.
It’s also good to view the FDA with a healthy dose of skepticism because it’s part of the government just as much as any other federal agency. I’m not saying that it’s always wrong, but it certainly can’t be immune from the corruption that’s found its way into everything else in Washington.
People who ask questions about vaccines or any other health-related topic should be commended because they’re attempting to take charge of their health. If more people asked questions before eating junk food, smoking, or settling for a sedentary lifestyle, we’d all be lot better off.
Reward their curiosity and point them in the right direction; don’t tell them off. That’s what I say.
Nicely put. I can’t wait until the free indoctrination- er. I mean education kicks in so I can have a fulfilled life.
Once you have basic hygiene standards in an area diseases naturally decrease. That is the trend we’ve seen in America even before vaccines. All diseases were decreasing before we started developing vaccines for everything. It’s always been attributed to the fact basic hygenic practices were in place and being followed. Same reason why childbirth deaths/mom deaths went down when doctors and hospitals started handwashing and soap between patients.
Potable water, sewage treatment systems, garbage treatment/removal, and basic soap/handwashing/hygiene practices are what is necessary to greatly reduce diseases and outbreaks. We achieved this in most places by the 1900s and the data for diseases going down reflects that.
South Sudan has never attained these four basic standards to prevent outbreaks. So you are really comparing apples and oranges, a third world country will not hit the levels necessary to prevent such things.
“Imagine all the interesting diseases you could pick up in *that* waiting room.”
Nothing that can’t be cured with the blood of a chicken, a goat tongue, and some chanting in Urdu.
The way they mock and deride most people who ask them to defend the status quo is shameful.
That alone makes me wonder about the need for so many vaccines.
There are vaccines that are absolutely worth getting and there are vaccines that are overkill in their preventing a slight risk.
Either way, the biggest problem I see is that so many vaccines are given at one time.
In the real world, nobody contracts measles, mumps, rubella, polio, DPT, chickenpox, tetanus, all at once.
While I think that some of these vaccines are really important, like tetanus, some aren't and they should not be overloading an infant or toddlers immune system like that.
” being annoyed at government ordering you do to things”
It’s not a matter of being merely annoyed. Government already owns virtually whatever you own by just passing some piece of crap legislation that determines They want it. And even That’s not enough for them.
Forced, Legislated Medicine is Government taking your Health After they’ve taken your property in order to appease the monied interests who bought them their offices through lobbying bucks.
When it comes to putting Any foreign substance into My Carcass, OR YOUR’S,
SHOW ME THE MONEY!
“I would rather be stupid than a communist.”
This is good material.
Thanks.
These people who masquerade as “conservatives” are just total liberals when it comes to a pet peeve issue.
I swear there are people on this thread who are as liberal as any pro-abort out there defending abortion to the death.
Here I am, arguing for people to have choice, that if they want the vaccine, they should be able to take it, but if they don’t want it, they shouldn’t be forced to take it.
These people can’t handle that, to them there’s only one right choice (like the pro-aborts). You must line up and take the vaccine, your betters know what’s good for you. WHo are you to refuse the vaccine?
Why don’t you want to wear the ribbon?!?! /seinfeld
This is America. If I don’t want to wear the ribbon, I don’t have to. If you want to, fine. If you don’t want to, I’m fine with that too.
These people are just as liberal as the gun haters. They want bodyguards to have guns, or secretly have their own gun, but they don’t want you having guns because they feel safer if you’re unarmed. These whiny people think they can only be safe if you’re vaccinated too, guess it don’t work if only THEY get the vaccine.
I will only survive if you get vaccinated, and I will force you to do so because I believe it’s better FOR ME.
The ultimate in selfishness. Forcing others to take a risk they believe is too risky for them, for their own sorry ass.
It’s pathetic and I’m calling them on it. They’re jack-booted thugs, just as bad as any liberal forcing their crap view on someone because they think they know what’s best for them and not giving two craps about them if it injures or kills them. They won’t be around to help the rest of their lives. Not their problem.
Effing thugs.
Yes, I should have said “M.D.” instead of doctor, to distinguish that degree from a Doctor of Osteopathy. My father’s family includes 11 graduates of Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine.
“IT is NOT stupid to heed the WARNINGS given at the time the required parental consent is signed to have their gene pool injected. But you carry on with your superior self importance.”
So you really think that they are WARNING you not to vaccinate your kids, and that you and a few of your weird friends are the only ones that read the fine print?
“NO vaccination clinics set up all along our borders.”
This actually would be a good idea, but we’d have to control our borders first. We aren’t doing that, as you know.
“But you carry on with your superior self importance.”
You could be superior too.....just get your kids vaccinated, and quit trying to convince people they should put their kids at risk by skipping, delaying, or not getting their important vaccinations.
Do you miss Guillain– Barré? I think there is validity on both sides of the vaccine debate. If it were my child would I get the vaccines? Yes but I would prefer them be spread out over time. The huge rush is simply for getting as many as possible as soon as possible is likely education funding driven. Meaning simply school doesn't want Pre-K kids {4 year olds} missing school. Pre-K and Kindergarten brought on most of the rush. I think both grade levels should be ended and kids start school at six.
If Autism ran in my family I would also be cautious and go for a minimal worse disease vaccines only route.
In 1985 when my wife suddenly went quadriplegic one of the first questions the Neurologist asked her was about any recent vaccines. If there wasn't a link why would he ask the question? Guillain– Barré was just beginning to be understood. No she didn't have that but a similar autoimmune disorder possibly caused from undetected dormant Polio from many years past.
I've seen some of the horrors some vaccines even given adults can do. Some Mothers who took a shot in the late 1950's during pregnancy ended up having kids with missing limbs. I can't remember what the shot was for but I saw a few kids with it in school. Both sides of the vaccine issue have legitimate & very valid concerns. Not all immune systems are created equal but our national immunization program is ran as if all are.
And I think everyone here knows what kind of a person you are, too.
Science isn't conducted by consensus so there's your first problem - and a solid explanation for why AGW is a hoax. On the other hand, we have decades of experience, and reams of evidence, that proves vaccinations decrease mortality and have successfully eliminated, or significantly reduced, diseases that for centuries have ravaged humanity.
Contrary to your other ridiculous point, "big pharma" (that's such a stupid label) does not make "huge money" on vaccinations. Only someone with no grasp of the industry believes such stupidity. Vaccines against some diseases are difficult to obtain because the profit, or lack thereof, doesn't justify production.
Global warming is junk science that is advocated by people who don't know jack squat, or have a financial or political interest at stake. The anti-vaccination crowd is simply made up of people who refuse to see the mountain of evidence in front of them that shows, clearly, they have no idea what they're talking about.
“The ultimate in selfishness. Forcing others to take a risk they believe is too risky for them”
This more accurately describes those who do not get their kids vaccinated.
They think that they shouldn’t have to bother, and don’t care about the risk they pass along to other unvaccinated kids, not to mention the entirely avoidable risk of contracting (or their kids contracting) serious childhood diseases.
“Mothers who took a shot in the late 1950’s during pregnancy ended up having kids with missing limbs. I can’t remember what the shot was for but I saw a few kids with it in school.”
That was not a vaccine.
That was thalidomide, which was a morning sickness drug. It was developed by Otto Abros, a Nazi.
The drug thalidomide and the tragedies associated with it were the impetitus for the larger and intrusive FDA as we know it today.
Me not taking a vaccine harms nobody else. How can I harm you if your precious and perfect vaccine protects you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not everyone who is vaccinated develops antibodies against the disease. For instance, my friend’s son contracted measles even though he had been fully and properly vaccinated. I did not respond to Hepatitis B vaccine even though I was properly and fully vaccinated.
Much of the effectiveness of vaccination comes from “herd” immunity. If most of the population is vaccinated the disease does not have an opportunity to spread.
If your child is not vaccinated and contracts a disease ( for example whopping cough) there is a real risk that your child will infect those children who have been vaccinated but did not responded, who are too young to have received the vaccine, or too sick. The greater the population of people who are not vaccinated, the greater is the opportunity for the disease to spread from one person to another through the community.
I am as libertarian as anyone can be, and it is **NOT** a libertarian ideal to make other people sick when there are highly effective measures to prevent it. And....As a libertarian, if a parent refuses to vaccinate his child, and his child is the reason others are made sick, then he should be bankrupt by lawsuits into complete state of penury.
“I will only survive if you get vaccinated, and I will force you to do so because I believe it’s better FOR ME.”
Agreed. Granted, Lobbying money is First Amendment protected but like I said,
SHOW ME THE MONEY.
How many people even take it into consideration when being sold an Anything from medicine?
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/lobbying.php?cycle=2012&ind=H04
osteopathic practitioner,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The education of a D.O. is nearly identical to that of a M.D. I think it would be hard to find a D.O. ( or M.D.) who was an advocate of withholding vaccination.
See, though, they won’t let you take the reasonable position. It grates on their very core you could say some vaccines are too risky, or too many are given at one time, to such a small body that has a very new and unused immune system. If you’re against mandating vaccines to girls for sexual activity you’re committing child abuse by not getting it, basically.
Nope, if you don’t sing their tune lock stock and barrel, you’re to be mocked and ridiculed and they go global-warming-denier on you. No middle ground. They make it a mission to personally destroy and defame your character and credibility.
Just look at the comments I got from these people here and I am for people taking vaccines if they want them, and also not taking them if they don’t. If you are for individual choice on the issue of vaccines, these people simply cannot tolerate that. And they revert to name calling and saying it’s their religious duty to force you to take it because you not taking it harms them and it’s for the greater good.
They are truly insane and you cannot argue with an insane person. I wonder how they’d survive if others would start forcing them to do things they didn’t want to do because they knew better, their religion supported liberation theology, for example, which justifies poor people stealing from those who have more than they do. Wonder how long they’d put up with that?
I work in the medical field. I started out in SoCal. Had this Doctor there...that signed off...Dr. W%#^#$&^....D.O. I asked someone there....what the hell is that???? I'd never heard of a D.O. The person I asked...didn't know either. Ha!!
Figured out...after investigating....what D.O.'s are.
Moved to Oklahoma....and found lot's of D.O.'s practicing...Cardiac surgeons, E.R. Doc's, Anesthesiologist's, etc.........
Even have a future SNL going to Med School here....at OSU. A Osteopathic Medical School.......
Crazy, eh!!
I was thinking the same thing last week, when I was hospitalized for smallpox. Or was it polio.
Maybe parents should have their *fully and properly* vaccinated children tested to make sure they have the right antibodies to be able to go out into the world and risk being around the great unwashed. Maybe it’s the vaccine manufacturer’s fault for making a faulty vaccine. How do you know that you did not respond to the Hepatitis B vaccine? (just curious)
The pediatrician is about the most unneded person on earth.
Most kids would not get sick without going to a doctor and getting shot-up with poisonous vaccines.
Fire your doctor and get healthy.
Our medical practice in Broken Arrow was a family of Osteopaths: the “old Doc” and his wife, his sister (she delivered two of my babies), his son, his daughter (she was our GP), and his son-in-law. Great bunch of people. The old Doc had gone to Kirksville and knew my grandfather, while the rest of them had been to school in Oklahoma.
You know, doctors do make money off vaccines they give to patients. They not only get per-shot amounts, but they also get bonuses for how many they do. There’s incentives built-in to how many vaccines they do.
Why would this surprise anyone? They get money from drug companies for the prescriptions they write. There’s always money involved.
We are all to forget this and simply assume total confidence that the doctor is always doing what is best for our self-interest. That’s a real passive way to approach your own health and there’s enough anecdotal and recorded incidents (iatrogenic deaths and injuries statistics) to say the passive approach to your own health will get you dead a lot faster than being actively involved and YOU being the one in charge of your own health.
I think 'warnings' are given for cause. Somewhere you got the notion that I did NOT vaccinate my children. Best not to make ass umptions.
“NO vaccination clinics set up all along our borders.”
This actually would be a good idea, but we’d have to control our borders first. We aren’t doing that, as you know.
Then why are you NOT hyperventilating about who the government is ignoring and the medical community are NOT injecting. And accusing bad parenting for reason to a negative reaction to vaccinations?
“But you carry on with your superior self importance.”
You could be superior too.....just get your kids vaccinated, and quit trying to convince people they should put their kids at risk by skipping, delaying, or not getting their important vaccinations.
Again, I have said NOTHING that would indicate that I did NOT have my own children vaccinated. I have NOT tried to convince anyone to NOT have their children vaccinated. I do know that bad, horrible reactions occur as from what I personally witnessed. Each parent much sign that consent form before any physician can inject the child.
>> “My guess this is being done on the advice of lawyers.” <<
.
More likely on the advice of their friendly local pharmaceutical salesman.
Drugs and vaccines are where the money is, pure and simple.
The death culture has a part in this too, since they know how drugs and vaccines accelerate aging. ZPG has always loved drugs and vaccines.
>> “Jesus H. Christmas, some people are stupid.” <<
.
Yes anyone that allows their child to be touched by a doctor.
That's the ticket. Nothing like a little mockery, derision, and name calling to win someone over to your point of view.
When all else fails attack the messenger.
And I notice that that is in general what the pro-vaccine crowd resorts to in these discussions. If the vaccines were all they were cracked up to be, they'd sell themselves. Since the responses don't include anything of substance, it becomes clear that the pro-vaccine crowd does not have much in their arsenal to support THEIR stance.
You are conflating two problems.
But... You are correct, that other vaccines are pushed on parents and babies that simply are not necessary for most small children.
There are **highly** contagious communicable disease that cripple and cause death. It is irresponsible not have a child vaccinated against these diseases. There are only a handful of these.
It is sad, but I fear that only a plague of crippling and deadly diphtheria, polio, or measles will be enough to bring the anti-vaccination advocates back into the realm of common sense.
By the way....Some years ago I had shingles. Wow! Get the vaccine! It is worth the $200 not to get this very painful and debilitating condition.
I agree. However, it would only take one, in a major metropolitan area, to pick up the customers who are separated from other medical practices over this issue.
Not that I’m advocating non-vaccination ... just thinking through the economics. One business’s rejects are another’s self-selected niche market (in theory, at least) ...
>> “Also, who wants to take their kid to a doctor that also has unvaccinated kids as patients?” <<
.
Yes, it must be troubling to bring your sickly, possibly retarded, heavily vaccinated kid to the doctor and see all those healthy vibrant unvaccinated kids in the waiting room.
>> “We do know that, for instance, not having a polio vaccine leads to polio and often consequences like paralysis.” <<
.
No, we know that the opposite is quite true.
If the vaccine fails to bring on trouble immediately, it likely will later on, with fibromyalgia, ALS, MS, or other polio vaccine related conditions.
Their malpractice insurance policy companies may be demanding it. ( in other words, Lawyers!)
If a doctor accepts unvaccinated children into his practice, the child who is sick with a preventable communicable disease can ( and likely will) infect other children and adults in the waiting room. Not everyone who is vaccinated responds with antibodies and even though vaccinated is completely vulnerable to the disease. Also, some children and adults have medical conditions that prevent them from being vaccinated.
Personally....I think this is good medical practice, for the safety of the others in the waiting room.
>> “Why don’t they just make them sign something that says they WERE advised???? And, that they will NOT make any legal claim based on non-vaccinations?” <<
.
Good doctors do that already.
The doctors that are making the trouble are the extremely greed-motivated quacks that are in it strictly for the money.
.
“doctors do make money”
Yes they do, and so do advisory panel members at FDA who stamp products safe and effective, and the research academics who submit test results to FDA to get them approved.
http://pogoblog.typepad.com/pogo/2011/08/janet-woodcock-miss-piñata-meets-clue-stick.html#more
“Third, a federally funded study of 2914 academics
http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/28/6/1814.abstract
by Harvard University’s Eric Campbell finds that almost 50 percent of research academics have no ties to industry. That’s right, ZERO financial conflicts. Dr. Campbell published his data in the journal Health Affairs and discussed it last June at a Georgetown University conference.”
Ergo, LESS than HALF of the researchers here Weren’t on the take.
Unvaccinated kids are far less likely to get communicable diseases, because their immune systems are not crippled by the passenger virus SV40 that is present in most vaccines.
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