Skip to comments.More Doctors 'Fire' Vaccine Refusers
Posted on 02/15/2012 1:10:19 PM PST by FewsOrange
Pediatricians fed up with parents who refuse to vaccinate their children out of concern it can cause autism or other problems increasingly are "firing" such families from their practices, raising questions about a doctor's responsibility to these patients.
Medical associations don't recommend such patient bans, but the practice appears to be growing, according to vaccine researchers.
In a study of Connecticut pediatricians published last year, some 30% of 133 doctors said they had asked a family to leave their practice for vaccine refusal, and a recent survey of 909 Midwestern pediatricians found that 21% reported discharging families for the same reason.
By comparison, in 2001 and 2006 about 6% of physicians said they "routinely" stopped working with families ...
Most pediatricians consider preventing disease through vaccines a primary goal of their job. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and AAP issue an annual recommended vaccination schedule, but some parents ask if their child's immunizations can be pushed back or skipped altogether, pediatricians say. While rates for several key inoculations in young children rose between 2009 and 2010, according to the CDC, lower immunization rates have been blamed as a factor in U.S. outbreaks of whooping cough and measles in recent years.
Parents often voice concerns about autism or that their child's immune system may be overwhelmed by too many vaccines at once. Worries about a link between vaccines and autism arose because some parents noticed their children regressed, or lost some skills, around the time of their vaccinations at two years of age. Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative.
Numerous studies since have dispelled these concerns among scientists. Rather, scientists say, it is more likely that autism symptoms begin showing up around the same age children are vaccinated.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
How do you know that you did not respond to the Hepatitis B vaccine? (just curious)
There are tests available to measure the antibodies.
Actually, it was rather important for me since I worked in a health profession. It happens sometimes. Some people just don’t respond to the vaccine. Since I am retired now so it is not an issue. I am not going to go through another series of Hep B vaccinations since my risk of exposure now is nearly zero.
Ha! Dog groomers, that’s pretty funny!
Out here in deeply rural Alabama, not only do most dogs not get groomed, many never had a bath in their life unless they were swimming in the creek or something.
In the sticks, lots of folks have dogs that they never let in the house, are chained to the dog house so they don’t run away, and are never taken to the vet. The attitude is, that’s my dog, but if he dies, I’ll just get another one.
Some folks, like trailhkr1 said, don’t even chained up their dogs, but just let them wander where they will. They might not really have “owners”, but just show up at the house where the humans that feed them live, in order to eat what they can’t catch.
Still, I don’t mind. I like living in the country, and any dog wandering in my property gets chased out by my dogs, me, or if they won’t shoo and cause problems, will get double-ought.
Yeah, it sure couldn't be caused by the illegal alien criminal scum streaming across our southern border.
Nope, no way.
well good, I’m glad we’re in complete agreement
>> “I was thinking the same thing last week, when I was hospitalized for smallpox. Or was it polio.” <<
More likely Clap, or mental retardation.
comfort words bs.
they pay you, you refuse to take the money and work FOR that money.
They can force you to work for them.
you can force them to pay you for work you did.
I like that statement better.
more direct and to the point.
>>You know some doctor somewhere is getting sued for not vaccinating a child, even though it was the parents that refused the vaccination.
I just did a paid mock trial opinion research gig on the most specious go-after-the-deep-pockets on the most tenuous linkage ever civil lawsuit you ever heard of. What you suppose seems likely.
“If the vaccine fails to bring on trouble immediately, it likely will later on, with fibromyalgia, ALS, MS, or other polio vaccine related conditions.”
Your irresponsible twit. You are really advocating folks NOT get vaccinated for polio, aren’t you?
I’ve never been vaccinated for anything.
That is probably why I’m healthy, and those that have been vaccinated are sickly. I’m 67 years old and haven’t even had a cold for close to 50 years.
If you are interested, “google” that term and read up on it; then you will understand the concept; why I mentioned the term and how it pertains to these types of individuals.
I couldn’t figure out what you were trying to say, but I will repeat the fact that I have fired customers, cut them loose, told them that I would not accept any more work from them.
“Ive never been vaccinated for anything.”
Your luck does not extend to prevent epidemics. Epidemics are why we invented vaccines.
I hope your luck continues, but please do not try to get people to emulate it, it will kill some of them.
you don’t fire customers.
you just refuse their patronage.
the wordgame is childish semantics for those who don’t believe they are in control of their own lives.
you never fired a customer.
I just brought my kids for their checkups the other day. When they were young, I didn’t question the doctors on vaccinations, and I agreed to every single shot up through age 4. Because the recommendations for vaccinations change constantly, one child had 15 shots, another had 16, and another had 17... all before age 4.
Then I started refusing the shots. There were so many shots required in our state - at one point, our state required more immunization shots than any other state. There were more booster shots recommended at age 6 and then even more booster shots at age 11-12. Two different doctors jumped all over me for refusing further vaccinations, so I “fired” them (not the other way around).
When I took my kids for checkups the other day, I mentioned to the doctor that they never had their 11-12yo booster shots. He said: “Oh, we stopped giving those boosters at that age. Now we only give shots for chicken pox and meningitis at age 11-12.”
So, (1) the medical community continually changes its recommendations; (2) vaccination requirements even differ from state to state; and (3) when you agree to a vaccination, the doctor hands you information warning that a small percentage of patients will be harmed (sometimes fatally) by the shot itself. Those are a few reasons why the decision should be made by parents themselves. Whether we choose to vaccinate or not - or whether, like me, some parents pick and choose - the decision is ours to make.
To those of you who believe all children should receive all vaccinations, I would ask: Which vaccinations? How many? How many more vaccinations are you willing to add to the schedule? Will there ever be a limit?
That is probably why Im healthy
Except for the fact that you're a stark raving lunatic, you're the picture of perfect health!
God bless you for being the one I charge of you and your kids’ health. Nobody else cares more about it than you do. Nobody else has to deal with the consequences either.
And of course you are right, what’s correct to do changes all the time. CPR keeps changing. Eggs, bad, now good, oops, bad again, now good again. Time to stop unquestioning trust in experts of all stripes.
I have family that have had that. You know what brings on shingles? High levels of intense stress. If you’ve had chickenpox I doubt the vaccine will prevent shingles if you have a very high stress period of time later in life, as that’s the source of your shingles.
That is probably why Im healthy, and those that have been vaccinated are sickly. Im 67 years old and havent even had a cold for close to 50 years.
My dad was like just like you
..until he contracted Meningitis (Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)). He'd tell you about it but he's dead now. BTW there is a vaccine for Hib. Too bad my dad didn't get it.
With current levels of basic hygiene an epidemic scenario isn’t likely. The four things that stop epidemics is clean water, sewage systems, garbage collection systems and handwashing/disinfecting capability. That’s why all major diseases you’d be worried about were all decreasing in America even before the advent of vaccines.
It’s always a pleasure to speak with you..........
As the owner, I am comfortable using the word firing.
In my business a customer is supposed to be for life, and once they find the right plumber or mechanic, (or doctor), they can be kind of desperate to keep them, and if they are the right kind of customer, then you want to retain them in return.
Occasionally a customer just doesn’t meet your standard, and you have to fire him, even if he has been a customer for years.
That can be quite a shock to the customer who never realized that someone like a doctor or plumber might decide that the relationship was not meeting their standard, and that they did not want to continue the relationship and that the customer was being cut loose, let go.
OK thanks. I just remember kids being born that way. I spent a couple of years in a school specializing in kids with physical disabilities. Vaccines all of them do carry some risk. No matter what a certain percentage will have an adverse reaction. These reactions seemed to have increased when the time frames were narrowed and more shots taken closer together. The reason behind it I think was for Pre-schoolers, Kindergarten, etc. Kids present in class means FUNDING.
When I was a kid we started school at age six by then most of us had gone through typical childhood illnesses like measles, chicken pox, etc, and our immune systems were stronger for the socialization school brings.
The same government oriented pressures that brought us the newer vaccine schedules brought us school pushed Ritalin as the Not Too Be Questioned Cure All for every childs learning or behavioral issues. This too involved additional funding too the schools. Never mind in doing so they do far more harm too many more kids than good. There is good reason to question their motives and exercise educated caution. Just because some alaphabet government agency says something is good, safe, or needed, doesn't mean it's true.
I have two cousins who were born several years apart. At an early age about 2-3 they began developing M.D. type symptoms. I put both of them in wheelchairs for life. They are in their late thirties today. One is married and has kids. Needless too say she was very apprehensive & cautious about her kids shots. They got them but not at the rapid pace being used by most doctors today.
I take vaccines about every three weeks myself. Is it risk free? NO. A doctor or nurse has to be ready with a needle in case I have a reaction. I might not ever have a reaction or the next one I take could put me into shock. I take immunization therapy for severe allergies. It was simply weighing the risk of long term immunization against more permanent neurological damage if I didn't. Vaccines also change. The allergy shots I took as a child did not work. The ones I take today work somewhat better. Still the same risk though.
once a fire is extinguished does the fire department stay and continue putting water on it?
I’ve been in contact with every kind of contamination you can imagine, with no problem.
I was Resident Engineer on a sewage treatment plant upgrade project where I regularly had to enter and examine structures that you probably would not have been willing to get within 1000 feet of.
Your dad probably used an antibiotic, which wipes out your immune system for a year or more.
No, a stark raaving lunatic would likely have been injected with everything under the sun.
Since consensus is exactly how the dangers of modern vaccines are dismissed, despite evidence to the contrary and at great professional peril if one seeks to display this evidence, and you don’t understand that, your credibility suffers.
Since you don’t know what you’re talking about in terms of the $ to be made (making sure kids are seen for their shots every 6 months keeps pediatricians in business, for example), your credibility suffers some more.
Since you think I claimed vaccines don’t do good, which I never said, your use of straw arguments now has your credibility in need of morphine. Please seek a vaccine against piss-poor debate skills and come back later.
“The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and AAP issue an annual recommended vaccination schedule....”
And can we “fire” the government, when ANYTHING they want done to you through Arbeitsziehungslager is a mandated requirement, and no longer a “recommendation”?
When you are out and about, occasionally stop at a service plumbing shop and ask the guys if they get colds, or get sick often, they will tell you that they don't.
Exposure to some things seems to help the immune system.
>> “Exposure to some things seems to help the immune system.” <<
Absolutely true; exposure through skin contact or intestinal contact, but not by injection directly to the blood.
I'll bet you're absolutely correct. It's all defensive medicine at this point.
I have an auto-immune disease which requires I take a biologic medication to "switch off" part of my immune system related to inflammation. I was diagnosed by a specialist with this condition a year ago, and unfortunately for me there's not many doctors who know how to treat this condition effectively.
Last year when I was diagnosed and put on medication to manage my condition, the doctor wanted me to get a flu shot. I refused. I know perfectly well how to avoid the flu and did so last year. I never caught the flu.
This year my doctor insisted I get the flu shot (primarily because of my immuno suppressed system) and told me if I didn't - to find another doctor!
After a lifetime of fighting with doctors over everything, I finally acquiesced and got the shot. This is the ONE doctor in the 15 years I've had this condition that was able to diagnosse and treat me effectively, I figured it was time I just listened to what he told me to do and just did it.
Call me silly, I guess every once in awhile these Doctors actually know what they're talking about -- even if I suspect he's practicing defensive medicine.
One shot that I always accept, is Tetanus.
Couldn’t have said it better.
And when Govt Finally realizes it needs to control its expenses,
It’s a pre set, evolving continuum. Happens every time the “Good of the State” becomes the good of the individual.
Vaccines aren’t perfect, so I wouldn’t take the risk. My family experience with vaccines has been good. I have no complaints, and also no desire to force them on anyone. I would just take my family and my business elsewhere if the doctor’s waiting room was always full of un-vaccinated folks.
When I was in 4th grade they were pressing for all the kids to get a tetanus shot. I didn’t but most of the school did. They had 3 or 4 deaths from that shot.
Later they learned that there was a simple test that was supposed to be administered before a tetanus shot that would have predicted the problems.
Government schools are deadly.
Three or four deaths from the tetanus shot in your elementary school?
I’m not buying it. What year was that?
Again, I direct you to Incidence Rates of Poliomyelitis in US. The polio vaccine was developed in 1953 and widespread trials begun in 1954. When was this supposed steady pre-vaccine decline?
Do you know that the shingles vaccine like many others is cultured in a cell line derived from an aborted human fetus?
And I’m posting to one of those stupid people. My nephew was severely brain-damaged by a DPT shot at age two. It’s a well-documented problem.
He’s nearly 30, and functions at the level of a toddler.
This is one of many issues that doctors themselves who aren’t fond of vaccines bring up. Bypassing several layers of the immune system is not natural. It requires the body to go into emergency mode as the foreign invader has gotten into the core of the body intact and without any warning or any external defenses, like the skin, trying to deal with it first. So your inflammation response to attack has to be extreme.
ANd then we wonder why auto-immune diseases are so much more common these days, especially among younger people.
That is another unfortunate real issue with vaccines. Many that are around today are only derived from cultured cell lines of aborted babies. There used to be several different sources and usually at least one source that wasn’t from aborted cell lines, but now that isn’t the case. So it’s really limited the choices for many Christians out there for some of these vaccines. And it’s not their fault, they aren’t the ones culturing the vaccines. If there were alternative sources many of these people would choose to get some of these vaccines.
You may believe they are being dismissed in the fever swamp that is your imagination, but the risks associated with vaccines are absolutely not dismissed by the medical profession or anyone else familiar with how vaccines work.
....despite evidence to the contrary and at great professional peril if one seeks to display this evidence
There are risks and benefits with all medicines. And again, the benefits far outweigh the very small chance that children will experience and adverse reaction to a vaccine. When was the last time you saw someone suffering from smallpox, polio or whooping cough? Exactly.
...and you dont understand that, your credibility suffers.
LOL. You're uniquely unqualified to be lecturing anyone about credibility with all that tin foil wrapped so tightly around your head. Vaccines are popular, and are highly recommended by medical professionals who, unlike yourself, know what they're talking about, because their success at eliminating and preventing diseases, that at one time decimated the human population, is a fact. No consensus is needed. The evidence is overwhelming....at least to anyone who doesn't have his head buried in the sand or covered by an industrial sized roll of tin foil.
Since you dont know what youre talking about in terms of the $ to be made
Every time you make a statement you have the opportunity to prove that you know what you're talking about or that you are clueless. Since you've chosen the latter approach, I'd challenge you to show us how profitable vaccines are when the government has to provide financial incentives for industry to continue making them. Anyone who thinks that pediatricians need to provide shots to kids to remain in business has his tin foil wrapped so tightly he's cut off the flow of blood to his brain.
If all those pediatricians and evil big pharma are only interested in profiting from vaccines, at the expense of our children, why wouldn't they just forgo the vaccines and and make a boat load of money treating all those horrendous diseases when they make a comeback? After all, doctors don't become doctors to help prevent illness and to treat it; no, they're only in it for the money, right? All those researchers employed by big pharma are only there for the money too, right? And you know how many drug researchers? None? Yeah, that's what I thought. To believe the unmitigated crap you appear to embrace, you'd have to be one rabid conspiracy nut. And you want to talk about credibility? Sure.
Since you think I claimed vaccines dont do good, which I never said, your use of straw arguments now has your credibility in need of morphine
You think it's suspicious that the government protects a marginally profitable industry from the wrath of the trial lawyers? If you had any idea what the hell you're talking about you'd know that the trial lawyers are responsible for many vaccine manufacturers ending production. When nobody makes vaccines, children don't get them. Oh, I see your plan now. Tell us again about how you think these vaccines do some good before suggesting that it's "suspicious" that vaccine makers are being protected because their products are analogous to tobacco. That was funny. You're as transparent as a Detroit high rise.
Then you went on to say that:
I assume you're claiming that "big pharma" is making huge money on vaccines. If you could prove that you would. But we all know it's just feelings so you won't. Let me pass you some more tin foil.
Then you finish with a flourish by saying this:
A rational person would conclude from this statement that you believe vaccines to be a "big lie" in the same way that man caused global warming is a "big lie."
Tell us again about how you never said that vaccines "don't do good." Your tap dancing needs a lot of work.
The proliferation of vaccine conspiracy idiocy like yours leads me to believe that our herd immunity is being replaced by herd stupidity.
That attitude might work in rural Alabama, but it wouldn't work in south Texas. Back when my dad had a ranch, we had several Australian Heelers for working cattle and were allowed to roam freely around the compound. They were all vaccinated for rabies. The high incidence of rabies infection of mammals and especially coyotes in south Texas makes having unvaccinated dogs very dangerous. There is even a program to put out vaccination baits to lure wild coyotes. The program has been very successful at decreasing the incidence of rabies in coyote populations
Keep believing what you want. The long-term effects of the adjuvents in the vaccines (not the viruses themselves) are what is at issue. Since I do know way more than you - having seen first hand what an adverse reaction can do - and am intimately familiar with the vaccine court and the squashed research on the adverse effects, I’ll leave you to your high, mighty, and ultimately dangerous position. I’ll add only this - if you knew there was a genetic marker or two that determined the potential for an adverse reaction, but this research was never brought to publication because this might influence folks’ minds, what would your conclusion be?
With your superior knowledge of the subject you should probably be aware that the total number of antigens a child receives during their entire vaccine schedule in these modern times is lower than what was found in one single vaccine that I received as a child. You got any arguments based on facts, or is everything with you about feelings and tin foil?
having seen first hand what an adverse reaction can do - and am intimately familiar with the vaccine court and the squashed research on the adverse effects,
No one ever claimed that vaccines are without the risk of side effects. You keep wanting to create your own arguments. You really ought to polish those debate skills. As for the vaccine court and all the "squashed" research on adverse effects...well, that sound like one hell of a conspiracy involving hundreds (if not more) people. I will say that you have quality tin foil.
Ill leave you to your high, mighty, and ultimately dangerous position.
Yeah, much more dangerous than Polio, Small Pox, Pertussis. Measles and Diphtheria. We were much healthier as a nation back when those afflictions tortured society. Dangerous? You Luddites are a trip.
if you knew there was a genetic marker or two that determined the potential for an adverse reaction, but this research was never brought to publication because this might influence folks minds, what would your conclusion be?
That you spend to much time listening to Coast to Coast.
We have one “high risk” child. We do not want her to spend any time with children who aren’t vaccinated for health reasons. No exceptions.
And yes, we absolutely do ask people if they vaccinate. I have no issues whatsoever about asking and getting an answer.
So, good for the doctors.
We wouldn’t force people to vaccinate if we could. It isn’t our business, even though I know that they are doing a terrible disservice to their children and to society.
But we can avoid them like the plague and make sure our kids do, too, as much as possible.
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit - an adjuvent is not the same as an antigen. Please consult a dictionary. Since you show so little actual knowledge, how can anyone take you seriously.
So, please continue to vaccinate and be vaccinated. Please consider doubling up - you can have mine. Enjoy!
Some vaccines are cultured in human cells, but understand they are not made from nor do they contain any human cells from aborted babies. The two cell lines in use today were cultured from cells taken from two abortions, one (MRC-5) that was performed in September, 1966 and one (WI-38) that was performed in July, 1962.
Here is a more in depth explanation and some facts from a pro-life Christian, BTW.
I understand the objection many have; I have my ethical concerns as well, but also understand that these two babies aborted in the 1960s were not aborted for the reason of harvesting their cells and sadly would have been aborted anyway. And whats been done cannot be undone some 30 years after the fact. Refusing to get a vaccination because it was cultured in one of those two self perpetuating cell lines, would not prevent those abortions from having already happened and, as the author points out, no cells from abortions since are used or necessary to culture vaccines and in fact such is now illegal.
That their cells were donated after the fact and that in their murder at least something good and life saving for so many has come from it and should perhaps be considered.
Ironically one of the two cell lines came from a mother who along with her unborn baby contracted Rubella. That didnt make the decision to abort the baby right, no matter how severely deformed, but with the Rubella vaccine, pregnant mothers and their unborn children are at much less risk of contracting that disease, at least if people get the vaccination.