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HALF of Americans don't pay income tax despite crippling government debt
Daily Mail (UK) ^ | February 22, 2012

Posted on 02/22/2012 5:46:16 PM PST by ConservativeStatement

Only half of U.S. citizens pay federal income tax, according to the latest available figures.

In 2009, just 50.5 per cent of Americans paid any income tax to the federal government - the lowest proportion in at least half a century.

And the number of people outside the tax system could have climbed even higher since as the economic downturn has continued to bite and unemployment has remained high.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: incometax; taxes
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To: P-Marlowe
Oh yes, and when you factor in other relief programs, it's not unusual for families to have a net income, since many of these programs (including the EITC) are "refundable tax credits" meaning that they reduce your tax bill, but once your tax bill hits 0, you get the remainder of the "credit" in cash.

Mark

51 posted on 02/22/2012 8:29:33 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: muawiyah
Any federal operation that CANNOT be addressed in that manner should be devolved to the states.

I believe that there are now more Dept of Agriculture employees than there are farmers in the US.

Mark

52 posted on 02/22/2012 8:33:04 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: ConservativeStatement

I could point out that they may not have anything to file on a 1040, but they are still chipping in to the behemoth if they buy anything, as corporate income taxes are part of product prices.


53 posted on 02/22/2012 8:39:12 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: MarkL

Half of them are doling out food stamps....


54 posted on 02/22/2012 8:40:21 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Study: 70% of Texas’ illegal immigrant families receive welfare

http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/04/study-70-of-texas-illegal-immigrant-families-receive-welfare/


55 posted on 02/22/2012 9:05:06 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

no wonder mexico is shooing them out


56 posted on 02/22/2012 9:10:03 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: HiTech RedNeck

It’s so easy...


57 posted on 02/22/2012 9:12:55 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: ConservativeStatement

bttt


58 posted on 02/22/2012 10:28:38 PM PST by knews_hound (Credo Quia Absurdium--take nothing seriously unless it is absurd. E. Clampus Vitus)
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To: eeriegeno
A "net worth tax" is just the "income tax" under another label. The only way it's different is it's timetable.

A sophisticated MODERN user fee system would simply allocate the costs of a government service to the users, each of whom would pay an appropriate share.

GIve you an example of such a user fee ~ POSTAGE!

Well, that was an obvious one. Now, how about this. People mail pornography ~ not as much these days as formerly (due to the internet) ~ but they do, and within that group are several fairly large businesses who mail a lot of porn.

The law requires that in case of a complaint from some downstream "user" or "recipient" the address of that complainant be added to a list of complainants. At the end of the year (or quarterly) the list is "sold" to the major porn producers ~ who then delete those addresses from from their files.

The people who need the list end up paying for it. USPS recovers its costs for producing the list. The people who don't want the porn then get dropped from the mailing lists and everybody is happy.

There's no reason most of Commerce and the Labor Departments can't be handled the same way. HHS certainly is open to that sort of thing ~ my goodness, look at their customer base ~ hospitals, doctors, medical insurance companies, state governments, etc. That's where the money is. Why go after Aunt Mary who makes $30,000 per year and lives in a shack in Mississippi when you can tap Johns Hopkins?

Let's look at the EXPENSE SIDE of government and the people who generate that expense to see who ought to pay the costs.

Note, when it comes to "grants", they'd just disappear ~ anything requiring a "grant" would turn into a state responsibility.

BTW, the federal highway funding system is also a "user fee" based operation. It needs "toned up" a bit to make it more equitable of course, but there's no reason for anyone's income to be tapped to build highways when there's all that traffic to pay.

We can even allocate the cost incurred by DOD in defending the seaways for commercial traffic ~

59 posted on 02/23/2012 4:03:47 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: elkfersupper
The "recent collapse" is a direct result of a downturn in commercial activity ~ there was a "collapse" at the time back in the 1980s ~ and it was so bad that you had buildings sitting around unrented for YEARS ~ owners who'd depended on "accelerated depreciation timetables" really got hit hard.

In the long run that had no real effect other than a social one. Your small time investor could buy a modest property and use depreciation to totally offset his rents AND his own outside income. In a couple of decades he'd be relatively wealthy from his holdings.

It was a way up for people of modest means ~ but that got cut off. As I recall it was the Democrats in Congress who demanded that modification to the tax rules ~ they also went after Veterans on the "double dipping" issue. Here we had several million men who'd been forcibly drafted into the military for the Nam War and some of them got government jobs later on. The Democrats didn't want any of them to draw both military and government retirements (which meant they wanted to discount your two years draft experience from your Social Security if you ever acquired it). There's an existing tax on military service out there ~ that should be abolished.

Now both of those impacts ~ elimination of accelerated depreciation and the tax on double-dipping went after the wealth accumulation opportunities of folks at the bottom end of the income scale.

Need I say more? The Democrats hate the working poor!

60 posted on 02/23/2012 4:12:27 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: cidrasm

Again, another misuse of government power and a mis-targeting of IRS investigative resources. You take that same amount of money spent on dealing with that scam and put it on Warren Buffett’s tail and you’d gotten 10 times the return!


61 posted on 02/23/2012 4:15:30 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: hosepipe

We need to have folks stop this thing of dehumanizing the American people with the thought that they are just a tax base to be tapped.


62 posted on 02/23/2012 4:17:25 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: marsh2

The figures today aren’t much different than they were back in 1913 which is the primary reason the proponents sold the income tax with the idea that it would target ONLY the top 1 or 2 percent. Today it targets almost everybody and serves as an instrument of class warfare. It is used by the agents of the rich to destroy wealth accumulation opportunities of those lower down the income scale.


63 posted on 02/23/2012 4:20:33 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: MarkL

Nobody thinks of FICA as anything but a tax. The legal justification for collecting it is based on the 16th amendment, same as the other income taxes.


64 posted on 02/23/2012 4:23:29 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: P-Marlowe

FYI, this FICA tax is actually split by employee and employer. Employee pays 6.3 in retirement account of Social Security and 1.35 into Medicaid account. Employer is required to match. So, they do not pay 15.3 unless they are self employed. They pay 7.65


65 posted on 02/23/2012 5:08:32 AM PST by I_be_tc
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To: P-Marlowe

There are a whole lot of people out there eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit.

These people get 6-7+ thousand dollar tax refund checks. So if they work, they aren’t really paying any taxes. They are cleaning up out of your pocket.

All you have to do is visit Best Buy or Walmart and watch them loading a couple giant HDTV’s into their cars at a time.

And if that don’t make you sick. You also get to help pay their cable internet bills, buy their food, help them heat their houses, and pay for their cellphone bills. Whatta country!


66 posted on 02/23/2012 5:16:59 AM PST by dforest
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To: muawiyah
Nobody thinks of FICA as anything but a tax.

FICA has a specific reason for being, but congress has bastardized it over the decades. It was brought into being as a combination safety net and insurance program when the actuarial tables ensured that it would not become a "retirement plan" for everyone. Call it what you will.

But congress has morphed it into nothing but a criminal enterprise no different than what Bernie Madoff did. No, I take that back. Madoff was more honest than the government. With Madoff, the contributions to his "plan" were voluntary. The government will fine, jail or even kill you if you don't contribute to FICA if you're working.

But that does NOT change the fact that this thread refers to one thing... Federal Income Taxes. And others keep trying to turn this into a conversations about their own pet peeves.

Mark

67 posted on 02/23/2012 5:52:59 AM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: P-Marlowe
No, she paid it all. The amount the employer pays is the same that she pays and it all comes out of HER earnings.

Absolutely correct, but I bet it's very rare that an employer tells that to the new employee, and if the employer matching requirement were rescinded right now and the entire burden placed openly on the employee, do you think the employer is going to raise her actual salary or hourly wage? I wouldn't bet on it. It might for future hires, but for current?

The problem is not that these people aren't paying their fair share, the problem is that the government is just too damn big and government spending is out of control.

Yes, yes the federal government is too big and is spending way too much money. So, now all you have to do is convince a significant majority of Americans who are benefitting from the government's largess to give that up. Just how many people benefitting from entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare are going to willingly take a cut in their benefit? There are people here on FR that get very excited whenever a cut in SS is mentioned. They worked and paid into that ponzie scheme and they darn sure are going to get theirs.

Then get a super majority in the House and Senate or a same-minded President to slash the budget down to it's Constitutional limits. I don't see that ever happening honestly. The spending horse has left the barn. For every expense in the budget there are voters who wanted them there. Politicians want to be re-elected and the easiest way to do that is to buy votes with the public treasury. And with no death of the highly left wing biased MSM in sight, the propaganda they spew definitely won't be toward limited government.

The Democrats did the biggest damage they could with the gigantic spending at the beginning of this administration knowing that the increased spending would end up getting baselined for future budgets.
What do you think the chances are of removing the payroll tax reduction that's now 2 years running. You saw the stink the MSM put on anyone daring to state that it's unsustainable.

Just my 0.02

68 posted on 02/23/2012 6:01:27 AM PST by cidrasm
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To: dforest

Among the Tax-takers (getting tattoos on their backsides)
American Thinker ^ | Earl Wright

And those people believe that is their money; they have a right to it.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2753527/posts?page=1 AND MORE on the way. See —> **EITC Campaign Strategy 2011**

Letter from Department of Social Services:
The Goal of the EITC Campaign is to:

Cut the number of Californians who miss out on the EITC in half by 2013 by ensuring that 400,000 more Californians apply for the EITC than in 2009.

EITC 2011 Campaign Strategy - cont’d
http://www.cafoodbanks.org/EITC.html


69 posted on 02/23/2012 6:08:49 AM PST by anglian
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To: EnglishOnly

“Everybody should pay something.”

I’ve heard it said that only about 50% of wage earners pay federal taxes, but I’m not so sure... I can only judge by my own experience:

My family consists of 2 had just over 23,000 in income last year but we paid about 650 in federal taxes. So although we are pretty low on the income ladder we paid. Makes me wonder who exactly is NOT paying federal taxes, beside the unemployed, I mean.

And fed taxes are not all the taxes we pay by a long shot. I sat down last year and tallied up all the money that went straight to the government in one form or another, and it came to 35% of our gross yearly income. Government truly is a fat leech on the back of every working american. It’s killing us for sure.


70 posted on 02/23/2012 6:18:42 AM PST by ladyrustic
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To: anglian

Disgusting, isn’t it? My cousin is an attorney and he was the one who told me how some people are making a killing on EITC.

He told me a big favorite for the EITC crowd was getting their whopper check, spending it first, and then filing bankruptcy instead of paying their bills with it.

Supposedly courts watch for that. Somehow I kind of doubt that anymore. LOL


71 posted on 02/23/2012 6:22:12 AM PST by dforest
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To: anglian

Disgusting, isn’t it? My cousin is an attorney and he was the one who told me how some people are making a killing on EITC.

He told me a big favorite for the EITC crowd was getting their whopper check, spending it first, and then filing bankruptcy instead of paying their bills with it.

Supposedly courts watch for that. Somehow I kind of doubt that anymore. LOL


72 posted on 02/23/2012 6:24:29 AM PST by dforest
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To: ConservativeStatement

When you rob Peter to pay Paul your going to get Paul’s vote every time.


73 posted on 02/23/2012 6:25:00 AM PST by kempo
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To: rockvillem

No, actually there are still enough courageous Americans who love their country that it will merely take us full circle, and return us to **1776**. As the great Ronald Reagan would say, “Why not? After all, we’re Americans.”


74 posted on 02/23/2012 6:31:14 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo (Patience, my compatriots, PATIENCE! FR will be "Santorum Country" in a very short time, IMHO.)
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To: P-Marlowe

She likely did not reach anywhere near the average deduction threshold. That is not married, no kids.

Oh, and FICA is distinct from Income Tax. As are all the other taxes that are not mentioned. For example, because there are corporate taxes, products are more expensive than they would be otherwise, so *if* a corporation pays taxes, then anyone who does business with them is paying an indirect federal tax, but not Income Tax.

Likewise, government deficit spending is a “future tax” which must eventually be made up for with government revenues. In effect, guaranteeing future high taxes to pay for things right now.

It is like someone stealing your credit card to buy a car, then giving the car to you as a “gift”, for which they expect you to use your money to buy them a car back. You only see the money you spend right now (Income Tax), and have no idea that you are about to get an enormous bill in the mail, which you will have to pay back to your cc company.


75 posted on 02/23/2012 7:11:03 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: EnquiringMind

I have to quibble a little bit about 65+ paying Income Tax, because typically that is usually not Income Tax per se, but capital gains tax. That is, unless they are still employed.

This confuses things somewhat, because IT and CG, while on the same form, use very different rules and function independently from each other. With congressional approval the CG rate can jump up or down almost whimsically, but it is a huge effort to change the Income Tax brackets.

For example, with the economy in downturn this year, CG has just plummeted. No profits, no taxes. So even if someone is a multimillionaire, and ordinarily would have substantial CG, they wouldn’t pay much of anything. But to say that they are not paying “Income Tax” creates a false impression.


76 posted on 02/23/2012 7:20:24 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: terycarl

Much depends on where you live in the US. For example, in parts of Florida, $25k would be very good income and a family could live pretty well. In NYC, $25k wouldn’t even be enough to live on if a single person was living in a rent controlled broom closet.

So the feds average it out. On average around the US, a single breadwinner family with two kids can barely scrape by, but if they have to pay income tax, they need financial support. So it’s just cheaper not to tax them in the first place.


77 posted on 02/23/2012 7:25:17 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Oh, and FICA is distinct from Income Tax.

Is it or is it not a TAX ON INCOME?

The fact of the matter is that all wage earners pay income taxes. They may not realize it, but they do. They pay additional graduated income taxes over and above the FICA and Medicare taxes, but no matter how you slice it, FICA is an INCOME TAX.

78 posted on 02/23/2012 7:43:03 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: ConservativeStatement

The Fair Tax will fix this - and put the IRS on unemployment!


79 posted on 02/23/2012 7:54:35 AM PST by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: P-Marlowe

OASDI and Medicare are technically not TAXES; they are deductions for defined benefit plans!

If they were, you would be able to claim them as taxes paid. The ones not paying Federal Income Taxes are a combination of seniors not having alternate sources of income and receiving OASDI, people on SSDI, SSI, EITC, AFDC, Section 8, WICs, SCHIP, SNAP and on and on and on.

It is the reason why Obama got elected, possibly why he might be re-elected.


80 posted on 02/23/2012 7:58:58 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: EnglishOnly

Next time you are by Walmart, look at the little booths with people getting their taxes done, when you’re out driving look for the people at the side of the road hawking tax preparation business, look at H&R Block, look at all the other businesses.

The majority of their customers are EITC recipients - their business is to fleece these lowlifes using Refund Anticipation Loans for some of the money they are stealing from the rest of us.


81 posted on 02/23/2012 8:01:37 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer; P-Marlowe

payroll taxes have not been set aside from the general budget since the time of LBJ, so we cannot pretend that everyone earning any income at all in America is not paying into the bank account that pays our bills.

Nor is it a remotely decent savings plan unless somehow we think that getting back one fourth of the future growth value of what we put in is a good deal. It’s not a deal at all. It’s a swindel of the variety that put Bernie Madorff in prison. I invest and get 25 instead of the 100 it should be. What insane person would do that?

The government forces me to do it no matter who I am.

If you take 14% of some $10 and hour worker’s paycheck, then you take 2800 from him on a 2000 hour work year (40 hours a week for 50 weeks).

Without kids, he doesn’t get that back in the form of earned income credit or any other credit I know of.


82 posted on 02/23/2012 8:08:09 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: xzins
You are wrong. While they are intentionally called "Payroll Taxes" by Democrats, they are no such thing. These are payments for future benefits, period. Or so they say. In reality, as you say, current Medicare and OASDI outlays are paid by US in the form of our payments, that amount over what we pay in is covered from the General fund. It will only get worse from here. Regardless, they are still not taxes and those low income workers STILL don't pay any Federal Income Taxes

Additionally, you will find out if you read about the program, there are EITC payments for low income earners with NO kids - the income limits are lower, but they are there nonetheless..

83 posted on 02/23/2012 8:15:37 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer; P-Marlowe

The reality is that all the money goes into one big pot in the sky, and the bloodsuckers dole it out to their cronies.

They name some of their sources by one name and others by another name, but it all goes to their bankbook, and they spend it howsoever they damn well feel like.

If I’m not paying ABCDE, but I do pay BCDE, then the case can’t be made that I’m not paying.

My experience in my poverty-stricken country is that my poverty-stricken compatriots pay an enormous tobacco tax while the politically correct upper crust tend not to.

We should make them start smoking again. :>)


84 posted on 02/23/2012 8:28:56 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: xzins

I agree with you about where all the money goes, etc., but it is not the lower income half that pays anywhere near what it takes to sustain this debacle. Middle and Upper Income taxpaying Americans are footing the bill...those without the wherewithall to have the ability to live off massive investments and pay only capital gains taxes.

As for taxes on things like tobacco, as far as I know, they don’t ask your income level when you buy them. The taxes are the same for everyone, rich or not. Even if there are a disproportionate number of compatriots that smoke and pay taxes, that amount is a drop in the overall tax drain on this country - by far; they just dont make that much money to matter. BTW, I am upper income and I do smoke - fat lot of good it does me.


85 posted on 02/23/2012 8:36:34 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

The Old Gaffer should be smoking the Shire’s own Old Toby

I’m in favor of Tinder Box Wilshire and Crown Royal myself.


86 posted on 02/23/2012 8:54:17 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: xzins

I don’t know...now that I’m out of the work force, I been thinking Maui Wowie or something like that.


87 posted on 02/23/2012 9:02:19 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer
here are the numbers for the big pot in 2008. The bottom line is that everyone pays something.

individual income taxes 1146 46% 0.45748503
corporate income taxes 275 11% 0.109780439
social security taxes 906 36% 0.361676647
excise taxes 81 03% 0.032335329
estate and gift taxes 25 01% 0.00998004
customs duties 25 01% 0.00998004
miscellaneous receipts 47 02% 0.018762475

TOTAL - 2,506 billion

88 posted on 02/23/2012 9:13:12 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: xzins

Format for this is not convincing. What I see doesn’t say everyone pays ‘something’.....the very fact this calls social security payments ‘taxes’ is misleading. Additionally, it does not separate out those in the category ‘individual income taxes’ by income levels...how is one supposed to interpret this?

Just google ‘who pays what income taxes’ or similar and you can track down that the bottom half of income earners pay squat next to nothing of the bill.


89 posted on 02/23/2012 9:17:13 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: xzins
The bottom line is that everyone pays something.

And it's STILL not enough for the parasites in DC!!!

90 posted on 02/23/2012 9:19:11 AM PST by airborne (Paratroopers! Good to the last drop!)
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To: Gaffer

It’s simply a chart showing the percentage of the total that comes from each of the sources mentioned. The total in 2008 was 2505 and about 46% of that came from income taxes. That’s how to read the chart.

So, slightly more than half of federal revenue collected comes from sources OTHER THAN the income tax.


91 posted on 02/23/2012 9:31:38 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: airborne

You are absolutely correct. It isn’t enough because they go out and borrow trillions on top of what they take in.


92 posted on 02/23/2012 9:33:46 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: xzins

I realized that, but the crux of what we’ve been discussing is “what income levels pay what taxes, etc.?” The 46% are grouped in toto. Likewise, they call social security payments (at 36%) ‘taxes’...how effed up is that? What it means is that they are treating the payments as taxes when they should have been reserved for social-security solvency payments, solely.

This table is useless. It doesn’t identifiy what portion of American taxpayers in what income groups actually pay the bills.


93 posted on 02/23/2012 9:37:20 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

I agree that more info could be given, but I just wanted to know how much of the fed budget came from income taxes.

I already knew that the top 10% paid 90% of the income taxes.

What that means is 90% of half of the revenue that isn’t borrowed.


94 posted on 02/23/2012 11:11:36 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: ladyrustic

When it comes to corporate income taxes ONLY companies that make a profit pay that tax. Private individuals faced with the personal income tax have no such choice. IRS will show up at your bankruptcy hearing to make sure they get THEIRS FIRST!


95 posted on 02/23/2012 5:51:09 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: dforest

No doubt people getting EITC are getting filthy rich. http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=150513,00.html says Tax Year 2011 maximum credit:

$5,751 with three or more qualifying children
$5,112 with two qualifying children
$3,094 with one qualifying child
$464 with no qualifying children
Investment income must be $3,150 or less for the year.


96 posted on 02/23/2012 5:57:31 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Gaffer

Tax Year 2011 maximum credit:

$5,751 with three or more qualifying children
$5,112 with two qualifying children
$3,094 with one qualifying child
$464 with no qualifying children
Investment income must be $3,150 or less for the year.


97 posted on 02/23/2012 5:59:47 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Little Ray

The Fair Tax is still planned to take place under the authorization of the 16th Amendment. It’s just a case of shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.


98 posted on 02/23/2012 6:01:22 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Nope. THe Fair Tax can’t take effect until the 16th Amendment is appealed.
The Fair Tax is probably the best thought out and most thoroughly examined piece of legislation to reach Washington DC in a long time.

BTW: Lincoln had an income tax WITHOUT the 16th Amendment...


99 posted on 02/23/2012 6:47:48 PM PST by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Little Ray
Lincoln's Income Tax is PRECISELY why we had the 16th passed. The Supreme Court finally ruled that it was UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

I went to the Fair Tax website and their little computational system said I'd owe 23%, which is an INCOME TAX just as envisioned in the 16th amendment.

100 posted on 02/23/2012 7:21:05 PM PST by muawiyah
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