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Navy Seeking More Minority SEALs
Time Magazine ^ | February 24, 2012 | Mark Thompson

Posted on 02/24/2012 9:15:25 AM PST by lex33

In nature, most seals are black, with relatively few white ones. The Navy's SEALs have exactly the opposite problem -- they're overwhelmingly white, with hardly any blacks. So they're trying to do something about it. It's a fundamental challenge in a democracy with an all-volunteer force: recruits may be drawn from all segments of society, but elite military units -- and none is more elite these days than the SEALs, following their dispatch of Osama bin Laden last May -- tend to draw from small pools of talent. For the SEALs, that includes athletic young men who are smart and good in the water. For whatever reason, that has led to an overwhelmingly white SEAL force. (PHOTOS: Navy SEALs in Action) Say the SEALs: Gaps exist in minority representation in both officer and enlisted ranks for Special Warfare operators. Diverse officers represent only ten percent of the officer pool (for example, African Americans represent less than 2% of SEAL officers). Diverse enlisted SEALs account for less than twenty percent of the total SEAL enlisted population. Naval Special Warfare is committed to fielding a force that represents the demographics of the nation it serves. This contract initiative seeks effective strategies to introduce high potential candidates from diverse backgrounds to the opportunities available in Naval Special Warfare. (PHOTOS: A History of Special Ops) The SEALs are considering hiring help to attract thousands of "minority males in the 16–24 year-old target age range" to become SEALs. "This contract will create a mechanism to enhance Naval Special Warfare's ability to conduct outreach, raise awareness, mentor, and increase self-selection to a career as a SEAL within minority communities," a recently-posted draft contract solicitation says. The Navy isn't seeking only black SEALs: "Challenges for minority recruitment also exist in the Hispanic, Asian Pacific Islander (API), Native

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
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To: brownsfan

As you note - when discussing Seals - we are discussing cream. Special people.

So comments like “Blacks don’t swim” - is a rather broad approach to a very fine problem.

I sure wouldn’t want to hear someone say “whites don’t (blank)” when referring to me.

My point was - maybe they face more opportunities. A physical specimen in this category is quite special.

As far as Black SEALs go - there are something like 30. About 2% So - small number errors start to happen. There are about 5% Green Berets. So - the delta - might be swimming. Which would make sense.

My point is - if someone were to read “blacks don’t swim” sounds prejudiced. Whereas “of the pool of 100 guys who might have made it, some had other good opportunities”.

Heck - it might even be affirmative action - smart enough/driven enough for SEAL is probably smart enough to be Black Officer - or in college. An unintended consequence of other AA programs.

161 posted on 02/24/2012 2:38:20 PM PST by Eldon Tyrell (question,.)
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To: Eldon Tyrell
So - if population = 13% - I would expect 5-6%. But - at that point - every head starts to count.

If swimming filters out a few more, and other opportunities filter out some more - start to get some really low numbers for easily explained reasons.

If you review my post, I am actually agreeing with you.

There is a lot of competition from many non-military sources for those non-military black men who would qualify for the SEALS. Then add to the problem the social choices ( cultural ), such as poor academy achievement and crime, and the pool of applicants available withiin the non-military black population who could even begin to qualify for the SEALS is small.

It is definitely down to “head counting”.

162 posted on 02/24/2012 2:42:30 PM PST by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: Eldon Tyrell

Stating the facts is not racism.

163 posted on 02/24/2012 2:43:24 PM PST by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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Those who claim “they can’t swim” are trying to keep the water at CHEST LEVEL. This is impossible. They fight it until their arms tire and then they start slipping under.

This is a very interesting observation. I will use this with my grandchildren.

164 posted on 02/24/2012 2:51:56 PM PST by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: Tallguy

Oh I know...I’ve done the drown proofing during lifeguard training....with people trying to fight you in the water...being comfortable in the water from an early age is key.

165 posted on 02/24/2012 3:16:17 PM PST by sandboxshooter (Iraq, Afghanistan, War)
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To: Tailback
I was a finance specialist so the required ASVAB scores were much higher...

Higher that what?

166 posted on 02/24/2012 3:24:20 PM PST by TankerKC (Welcome to the age of "I Meant to Do That" Diplomacy)
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To: TankerKC

Than say, artillery or infantry. When I went into the Air Guard, my scores were in the upper 90th percentile. Believe it or not, there are enlisted people just as smart as Air Force folks in the Army.

167 posted on 02/24/2012 3:52:42 PM PST by Tailback
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To: lex33

Why? Why bother? People have different gifts.

168 posted on 02/24/2012 3:54:56 PM PST by Chickensoup (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: Tailback

Minority =wasp in the not to distant future. Sarcasm intended.

169 posted on 02/24/2012 4:02:04 PM PST by codder too
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To: wintertime

I was more interested in the tone of the comments.

All they have to do is say “many” or “most” or “ a lot of” - etc.

The level of discourse on this site has slipped at least 2 notches in the last few years.

There is another post on here today with using the phrase “n*****” (Obama’s moronic 4 leaf Irish clovers)- we have to realize we are not in a locker room. And words like that NEVER were acceptable to conservatives.

Go re read some.

Maybe I jumped the wrong thread - I know the black guys aren’t the best swimmers. I’m usually semi-drowning in my swim test right next to them. We just need to watch how we say it. It is a slippery slope.

If I were a black conservative - I sure wouldn’t be attracted by the discussion and language used here today. Heck - I’m white and I’m turned off.

By the way - the 5-6% - matched the Green Beret number I dug up later. So swimming - or some other factor - works to cut that in 2. of course - SEALS are tougher , but .. that is another argument.

170 posted on 02/24/2012 4:48:27 PM PST by Eldon Tyrell (question,.)
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To: TSgt

I have no idea if this is true, but if your grandparents could not drink for a water fountain, could not swim in a community pool, plus were not going to hang out at a quarry in case some white boys decided to come down on them—probably a reason why you stayed away from water as no one taught you how to do the basics.

171 posted on 02/24/2012 4:55:44 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
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To: fight_truth_decay

I don’t disagree that there is a historical reason why swimming isn’t a strong suit with blacks.

It’s time to change that so children don’t drown.

172 posted on 02/24/2012 5:05:20 PM PST by TSgt (Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.)
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It has absolutely nothing to do with body size, body density, physical build, or race.

well, as a "lab setting", I'd say our platoon of rookie jarheads which consisted of maybe 80 of us kids was 40 percent black....and to a man those 40 percent were just what the instuctor warned of: "Sinkers".

You can mess with the numbers only so far.

173 posted on 02/24/2012 6:57:54 PM PST by ErnBatavia (Carterize Obama in November)
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To: Tenacious 1

An email I got recently, that I checked out on a couple of fact-checking sites::

George Lucas film, “Red Tails”, about the Tuskegee Airmen, has now been released. This might be a good time to revisit the facts as stated a few years ago in this letter to the Atlanta Journal Constition (AJC) regarding erroneous facts in a published obituary.

From: Bob Powell Date: July 3, 2008

This letter was not written for publication, but to enlighten you and you and your staff about some of the errors and misleading information you continue to publish, Perhaps it should be published to set your readers straight. As a WWII Historian and former 8th AF fighter pilot flying 87 missions over Europe during WWII, I am dedicated to factual reporting about the air war in Europe and aviation in general, and I take issue with the media (and not with just AJC) continuing to publish untrue and/or misleading statements about the Tuskegee Airmen (T/A).

Although I have great respect for the pilots and achievements of this WWII Fighter Group, I do not appreciate the continuing repetition of myths and untruths about their military record, the latest example in the obit on Lt. Col Charles Dryden in today’s paper, repeating the same errors which appeared in his obit story a few days ago.

For more than 60 years the myth that they “never lost a bomber they were escorting to an enemy fighter”, was their primary claim to fame! Then, several months ago, their Historian, William E. Holten, announced that his research proved that this was not true, that they had, indeed, lost some 25 bombers to enemy fighters. This myth still gets published occasionally, but far less frequently since he made this disclosure, thank goodness. Lies told often enough tend to become truths in the minds of many. However, it now seems to have been replaced by another false claim, i.e. that the Tuskegee Airmen flew more than 15,000 combat missions. ALSO NOT TRUE!

Their own official records indicate that the T/A only flew 311 missions. Their so-called 15,000 “missions” were actually 15,000 “sorties.”. Apparently, none of your reporters know the difference between a “mission” and a “sortie,” so let me define these for you and them. Combat Mission is an assigned flight to accomplish a military objective. This can be flown by one pilot or a squadron or group of pilots flying together. It is recorded as one mission. Combat Sortie. When, for example, 48 or 64 pilots fly together on a combat mission it is recorded as 48 or 64 combat sorties.

The T/A did not fly 15,000+ combat missions - as stated in your articles about the demise of Col. Charles Dryden. They flew 15,000+ “sorties”. To have flown that many “missions” during the time they were in combat in the MTO, they would have had to fly about 25 missions a day everyday they were in combat. Do the math. That’s one mission every hour, everyday they were in combat. Impossible! Weather alone would have prevented this, not to mention the problem of keeping all of their aircraft flyable everyday over that period of time. FACT: Their official records indicate they flew only 311 missions, a far cry from 15,000 claimed. Please advise your reporters of the difference between a mission and a sortie so that another T/A myth is not appearing in every mention this Fighter group.

The Dryden story also stated that the 99th Squadron of the T/A was “the most successful squadron in American history.” NOT SO! It would be more correct to say they have been the most publicized squadron in American history, however, thanks to a fully-paid public relations staff in Washington, D.C., the only such office of any military unit other than the U.S. Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard..

Although I do not have complete combat statistics on all the fighter groups flying out of Africa and Italy (the MTO), I do have the stats on all of the 16 fighter groups flying in the Eighth Air Force over western Europe. And, when these records are compared, the Tuskegee Airmen rank at the bottom of the list despite the fact that they had four squadrons to only three for the 8th AF groups. FYI, and one of the reasons the T/A exploit their 15,000+ sorties (which they call missions) is that on a normal mission they would put up 64 fighters compared to only 48 for the 8th AF groups. And, since they did mostly ground support missions rather than bomber escort missions, the average length of their missions was about half that of the time in the air flown by the 8th AF fighters. Re the above mentioned stats, I would be delighted to provide these for your information if requested.

Another gross error in your first story on Colonel Dryden is that the implication that he was, individually, awarded the Congressional Gold Medal recently. ALSO NOT TRUE. Through the efforts of the New York Senator, this medal was awarded to the Tuskegee Airmen, authorizing all Tuskegee Airman to receive this award. It was not awarded for individual achievements, as implied, but for the role played by the T/A in breaking the color ban for pilots, a civil rights accomplishment, not for their military achievements. Had this award been given for their military achievements alone, it should also have been awarded to each and every other fighter group in WWII whose records exceeded those of the Tuskegee Airmen. In my opinion, this was a “political award” instead of a military award. No other bomber or fighter units have been awarded this Medal, only Unit Citations. These are facts. Check them out, and here’s to more factual reporting and a better AJC.

Most sincerely,

Robert H. Powell, Jr.

Author/Editor/Historian/Pilot 352nd Fighter Group

1545 Rainier Falls Dr

Atlanta, GA 30329


174 posted on 02/24/2012 7:29:52 PM PST by zipper (espions sur les occupants)
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To: Tenacious 1

They were part of the Greatest Generation, so I’m a fan. But I’m not a fan of the hype that ultimately discredits their accomplishments.

Daniel L. Haulman, PhD
Chief, Organizational Histories Branch
Air Force Historical Research Agency

It’s a footnoted, with tables, and is a very specific PDF document about 30 pages long, so I’ll just provide a link. His tone sometimes seems apologetic for exposing the myths (see the conclusion).

The Myths:

1. The Myth of Inferiority
2. The Myth of “Never Lost a Bomber”
3. The Myth of the Deprived Ace
4. The Myth of Being First to Shoot Down German Jets
5. The Myth that the Tuskegee Airmen sank a German destroyer
6. The Myth of the “Great Train Robbery”
7. The Myth of Superiority
8. The Myth that the Tuskegee Airmen units were all black
9. The Myth that all Tuskegee Airmen were fighter pilots who flew red-tailed P-51s to escort bombers

The detailed, 30-page PDF by AFHRA researcher Dr. Paul Haulman:

175 posted on 02/24/2012 7:36:23 PM PST by zipper (espions sur les occupants)
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To: lex33
What a load of crap. The only good thing about the Time article are the comments following---thousands of them, all calling this a STUPID idea, and many referencing the NBA. Come on Time, let's force the NBA to reflect U.S. society!

176 posted on 02/25/2012 5:26:48 AM PST by Travis McGee (
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To: wbill

Oh, so true as much as we females hate it.

My swim partner and I won the water safety instructors competition when we were in college — both of us small, slight females that barely weighed over 100 lbs.

The instructor loudly announced to the entire competition that we won because we were both fat and that “fat floats!” I’ve never forgotten it.

177 posted on 02/25/2012 6:57:47 AM PST by Bon of Babble (The Road to Ruin is Always Kept in Good Repair)
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To: hosepipe
Democrats do not have a moral compass..

No, they do have a moral compass ... but it points straight to Hell.

178 posted on 02/25/2012 9:24:10 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Tenacious 1
Not of fan of the blacksheep squadron I take it?

The Black Sheep were Gregory Boyington's outfit; they flew in the Pacific.

179 posted on 02/25/2012 9:32:48 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: lex33

Wonderful, now the Seals can have malcontents pissing about perceived slights and injustices during operations. Or are they just hoping some more muzzies can get through and frag a few solid Americans. FUBO!!!

180 posted on 02/25/2012 9:36:36 AM PST by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.....)
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