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Women Are Still Being Judged for Not Taking Their Husbands' Last Names
The Atlantic Wire ^ | Jen Doll

Posted on 02/24/2012 3:44:35 PM PST by ConservativeStatement

Right now in the most of the developed world, it could be argued, women are considered about as "equal" to men as they have ever been. And yet, countering any "We've come a long way, baby"-type sentiment you might cheer about (intelligence in a woman is now considered by men to be more important than being pleasant and a good housekeeper; France is doing away with the term "mademoiselle"), there are deep, abiding problems that we're still working through. Some, like birth control access, are matters of health and freedom, while others are more "semantic," though no less problematic.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: marriage; names; women
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If Jen married a Ken and he took her last name, he'd be a Ken Doll.
1 posted on 02/24/2012 3:44:46 PM PST by ConservativeStatement
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To: ConservativeStatement

Feminism is mental illness.


2 posted on 02/24/2012 3:49:11 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: ConservativeStatement
Anyone who has spent any time searching ‘genealogy’ immediately hits walls for women ancestors. This notion that women are chattel for a man is primeval.
3 posted on 02/24/2012 3:49:20 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: ConservativeStatement

I’d sure be happier if my ex would go back to her maiden name. I’d be happier if she’d go somewhere far far away. Maybe a deserted island?


4 posted on 02/24/2012 3:55:15 PM PST by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: ConservativeStatement

Well that’s what they want, isn’t it? To be judged as being above being part of someone else, esp a man? These poor sows will never be happy. This is classic “don’t you dare/oh why don’t you look at my tits!?”


5 posted on 02/24/2012 3:55:52 PM PST by the invisib1e hand
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To: Just mythoughts

I don’t judge the women who won’t change their names, I judge the wimpy husbands.


6 posted on 02/24/2012 3:57:15 PM PST by Krankor (eenie meenie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak.)
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To: Just mythoughts

Do you know why the system is what it is?

A man can impregnate 100 women in as many days. The only way to keep track of the bloodline is to name the offspring after the father. If you named them after the mother, all those offspring (half-brothers and half-sisters) could easily marry and breed and cause an inbred generation.

Now, here’s the counter-argument. A woman could be married to “Joe” and claim that she was impregnated by “Joe” and “Joe” could claim to be the father. However, the woman can cheat and become impregnated by “Dick.” Certainly this happens, but nowhere near the extent that husbands and wives have children together. But because that happens, we need to praise monogamy and shame adultery and continue to have women take the last names of their husbands.

And I’ve never had any trouble with genealogy tracking down female ancestors, even those who did not marry. I’m not sure what you’re doing there, but the tree is as easy to fill out for females as it is for males.


7 posted on 02/24/2012 3:57:34 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival. (Ron Paul is the Lyndon Larouche of the 21st century.))
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To: Just mythoughts

Nearly every major culture on Earth (with the exception of judiasm and I may be wrong about that) is patrilinial as a fathers birth tended to determine the kids status.

Its tradition and its a deep rooted one. There is no need to change it and saying that it makes women “chattel” seems to show a few insecurities on your part.

When I get married and have children of my own they will be “douls” to show that I’m their father. The woman gives birth the least you women can do is acknowledge we sired the younglings.


8 posted on 02/24/2012 4:01:28 PM PST by utherdoul
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To: Just mythoughts

Taking a man’s last name is not treating a woman as “chattel.”

It is the woman honoring the man’s position in the house.

If my wife would not take my name, I wouldn’t have married her. I would view that as extreme disrespect. I feel the same way about hyphenated names. ‘Pod.


9 posted on 02/24/2012 4:01:37 PM PST by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Marc Levin)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
..offspring (half-brothers and half-sisters) could easily marry and breed and cause an inbred generation.

You mean like the DemocRATS?

10 posted on 02/24/2012 4:01:37 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: ConservativeStatement

Women still need men to tell them to get out of a stuck car they drove onto railroad even while a train traveling at 55mph is barreling down on them.

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/dramatic-rescue-seconds-before-train-hits-car-28414690.html


11 posted on 02/24/2012 4:01:45 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
Do you know why the system is what it is? A man can impregnate 100 women in as many days. The only way to keep track of the bloodline is to name the offspring after the father. If you named them after the mother, all those offspring (half-brothers and half-sisters) could easily marry and breed and cause an inbred generation. Now, here’s the counter-argument. A woman could be married to “Joe” and claim that she was impregnated by “Joe” and “Joe” could claim to be the father. However, the woman can cheat and become impregnated by “Dick.” Certainly this happens, but nowhere near the extent that husbands and wives have children together. But because that happens, we need to praise monogamy and shame adultery and continue to have women take the last names of their husbands. And I’ve never had any trouble with genealogy tracking down female ancestors, even those who did not marry. I’m not sure what you’re doing there, but the tree is as easy to fill out for females as it is for males.

I have 'searched' for a female ancestor in the early 1700's and all I can find is the first name. AND another female ancestor who supposedly came from the Cherokee is not listed anywhere. So you have been fortunate in your search. IF the Cherokee did not get listed on the 'rolls' there is NO record of their existence. To contact the 'roll' keepers of the Cherokee is like seeking an entitlement, and if you are not on their rolls then you basically do not exist.

12 posted on 02/24/2012 4:02:57 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: ConservativeStatement

MS is an abbreviation for misery.


13 posted on 02/24/2012 4:02:57 PM PST by aimhigh
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
And I’ve never had any trouble with genealogy tracking down female ancestors, even those who did not marry. I’m not sure what you’re doing there, but the tree is as easy to fill out for females as it is for males.

Agree. I've been doing genealogy pretty intensively the last couple of years and have not noticed any difference in the ease (or lack thereof) in researching somebody b/c of gender.

14 posted on 02/24/2012 4:03:52 PM PST by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Marc Levin)
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To: Just mythoughts
how do you figure that? i can trace mine back to the 1700's and the ship they came over on...
15 posted on 02/24/2012 4:03:52 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: achilles2000

“Feminism is mental illness.”

I’ve long said that there’s nothing the least bit feminine about feminism and feminists.

Look at the dried out hags of feminism from the 1970’s and then look at the eunuchs they always have for husbands. Those men combined would not amount to a pimple on a real man’s posterior.

And then look at the hatred and vitriol these skanks spew at women who choose to marry young and raise families. Their ideal for a young woman is that she should work at a career until she’s 40, hook up with some random guy to father a trophy child, and then raise the child on her own because who needs a man, right?

Look at the empty, unsatisfying lives those hags live. They watch ‘Sex in the City’ as if that’s a model for life and they cry to their therapists for anti-depressants when all they really needed was a wholesome and satisfying lifestyle. But by the time they realize thjey got it wrong all they’re capable of is of condemning the women who would rather marry a great guy, keep his house, and raise his kids.

They can have feminism.


16 posted on 02/24/2012 4:05:01 PM PST by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: SandRat

Muzzies have a problem with inbreeding, also. Maybe that’s why they get along so well with DemocRats!


17 posted on 02/24/2012 4:05:15 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: ConservativeStatement

Women who think not changing their last name is a big deal are the kind of individuals (men AND women) who think symbolism, titles and pretense are substitutes for real character and substance, because they have no character or substance.


18 posted on 02/24/2012 4:05:37 PM PST by Spok (Who is Sam Zemurray?)
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To: Krankor
I don’t judge the women who won’t change their names, I judge the wimpy husbands.

There was a time when I would not have given a second thought to 'changing' the last name. But when I hit a wall in my ancestral search and all I can find is the woman's first name I have changed my opinion of maintaining that line of ancestors.... And of course NOT all females keep their last name for that reason.

19 posted on 02/24/2012 4:07:14 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: sauropod

It’s not ‘gender.’ Gender is what you give a word (masculine, feminine, or neuter). Sex is male or female.


20 posted on 02/24/2012 4:07:21 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Krankor
I don’t judge the women who won’t change their names, I judge the wimpy husbands.

I married when I was 30 to a fine Women who was finishing her residency. The hassle and cost to change her name was not worth it. It has worked out well. My Daughter has my name. My wife is listed under my name in the phone book. It has worked out very well. We have our privacy.

Feel free to contact me if you really want to find out if I am a wimp.
21 posted on 02/24/2012 4:07:21 PM PST by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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To: ConservativeStatement

I think that women who hypenate their names are a pain in the a**. If I married a woman who had a career and a good professional reputation I would ask her to keep her name and not add a hyphen and my name at the end. Betty Grable was always Betty Grable. She did not become Betty Grable James when she married. The worst ones are the princesses with two long last names like Debbie Rabinowitz Gonzalez.


22 posted on 02/24/2012 4:09:38 PM PST by forgotten man (forgotten man)
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To: sauropod
Taking a man’s last name is not treating a woman as “chattel.” It is the woman honoring the man’s position in the house. If my wife would not take my name, I wouldn’t have married her. I would view that as extreme disrespect. I feel the same way about hyphenated names. ‘Pod.

I do NOT intend to dismiss the notion of taking of the man's name. BUT because of my ancestry searches I keep hitting dead ends because the woman's lineage disappears unless there is special care to record her family.

23 posted on 02/24/2012 4:10:01 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

I teach in an inner city school. We are about a generation (which is only about 15 years in the ghetto) away from inbreeding. Baby daddies don’t give their last names, baby mamas use their last names instead. Why? Because then the baby daddies have to pay child support. This way baby daddy can sell drugs and get cash, and baby mama can still collect our tax dollars. I had two sisters one year that each had two kids before they graduated. Sister A had a baby with Brother A. Sister B had a baby with Brother B. Stay with me now. Sister A then had a baby with Brother B. Sister B had a baby with Brother A. Figure that out. The kids were double half-siblings and double cousins? All four children, although I’m sure there are more than four by now, have their mommies’ last name.


24 posted on 02/24/2012 4:10:01 PM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: ConservativeStatement

If I didn’t take my husbands last name, I’d have my fathers last name. I love both men, of course in different ways, but it’s still the man’s last name. So how is it suppose to be more “feminist” to keep your maiden name? I thought about doing the maiden name as a middle name, just because I was proud of my family name, but my father said “ you don’t have to do that (I knew that) and your mother likes that your middle name is Marie, as in Mary (we’re Catholic).” My dad also said “you chose your husband, you were stuck with me and your mom!”


25 posted on 02/24/2012 4:10:20 PM PST by MacMattico
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
A man can impregnate 100 women in as many days.

More like 20 days, fewer if they are real hotties.

26 posted on 02/24/2012 4:10:39 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: ConservativeStatement
there are deep, abiding problems that we're still working through. Some, like birth control access, are matters of health and freedom, while others are more "semantic," though no less problematic

I am so sick of all this feminist whining? "deep abiding semantic problems"? This psychosis has caused much unhappiness among women.

27 posted on 02/24/2012 4:10:53 PM PST by oldbrowser (They are Marxists, don't call them democrats)
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To: utherdoul
Nearly every major culture on Earth (with the exception of judiasm and I may be wrong about that) is patrilinial as a fathers birth tended to determine the kids status. Its tradition and its a deep rooted one. There is no need to change it and saying that it makes women “chattel” seems to show a few insecurities on your part. When I get married and have children of my own they will be “douls” to show that I’m their father. The woman gives birth the least you women can do is acknowledge we sired the younglings.

AND my children will be given as much as I can possibly give them to know 'both' sides of their ancestry... GOOD grief, I am the insecure one here????

28 posted on 02/24/2012 4:12:10 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: ConservativeStatement

A woman taking her husband’s name is simply trading one man’s name for another. So, why would anyone calling himself a man would want to have TWO male’s names with a hyphen between them?


29 posted on 02/24/2012 4:13:34 PM PST by fishnuts2 (Liberals are anything but.)
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To: Just mythoughts

“Anyone who has spent any time searching ‘genealogy’ immediately hits walls for women ancestors. This notion that women are chattel for a man is primeval.”

Sounds like you are an FR Feminista! I have a great idea. If women think they are so smart and independent then do it like most animals do - don’t get married, have children out of wedlock and raise them alone by yourself. Ain’t nature great?

Then you can give them your family name and teach them to hate men, too!


30 posted on 02/24/2012 4:14:25 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Just mythoughts
SOmeone I know was trying to prove that his great grandfather was Cherokee.

Turns out his great grandfather knew about the rolls, but being a proud Cherokee refused to sign.

So if your ancestors are not on the rolls then that may be frustrating, but it should be considered an honor.

31 posted on 02/24/2012 4:15:35 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Roger. Wilco, Mr. O’Reilly.


32 posted on 02/24/2012 4:16:18 PM PST by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Marc Levin)
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To: ConservativeStatement
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him ; Male and female created he them ; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. (Genesis 5:1, 2)

God called their name Adam.

So from the very begining, the principle God Himself set is that the woman would take the man's name. Ironically, ALL women have a man's surname, unless they deliberately have it changed to something weird. Wives either take their husband's name at marriage, or they keep their FATHER's name ; unless, as I said, they change their name to Ms. Marijuana, or some other stupid non-name.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ ; and the head of the woman is the man ; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor. 11:3)

Men and women may rebel against God's order, but not with impunity. It IS GOD'S ORDER.

33 posted on 02/24/2012 4:17:19 PM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: Chode
how do you figure that? i can trace mine back to the 1700's and the ship they came over on...

Ah, I think I said that I can trace a female ancestor to the 1700's. ALLLLLL I can find about HER is HER first name. NOTHING else. Now on some census all that is listed is the first name of females. I personally would like to have more than that. IT has NOTHING to do with taking anything from the almighty males.

34 posted on 02/24/2012 4:17:35 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: utherdoul

“Nearly every major culture on Earth (with the exception of judiasm and I may be wrong about that) is patrilinial as a fathers birth tended to determine the kids status.”

Orthodox Judaism is patrilineal. Conservative and Reform, not so much.


35 posted on 02/24/2012 4:18:04 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: ConservativeStatement
A disturbing example of the latter is a recent study regarding attitudes about women changing, or not changing, their names after marriage, undertaken by Pennsylvania State University sociologists Laurie Scheuble and David Johnson.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I did not change my name after getting married. I never felt as if I were being “judged”.

I had a professional practice, licenses in 5 states, and a network of professional mentors, friends, and professional organization memberships. It would have been idiocy to change my name, especially having lived in 3 states since being married. It's confusing enough to provide all the paper work needed to change a professional license without add a name change to the mix.

In informal settings those who mistakenly call me by my husband's last name, so what? I graciously accept it.

36 posted on 02/24/2012 4:19:37 PM PST by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Sounds like you are an FR Feminista! I have a great idea. If women think they are so smart and independent then do it like most animals do - don’t get married, have children out of wedlock and raise them alone by yourself. Ain’t nature great? Then you can give them your family name and teach them to hate men, too!

IT has NOTHING to do with NOT getting married. Think what you want. AND I never said that I was against the 'taking' of the man's name. However, it sure would be helpful IF the woman's name were recorded for the sake of locating them in the record books.... geeeeeeeze I am the '.....nista?

37 posted on 02/24/2012 4:20:54 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Just mythoughts

Technically, women don’t have last names. A woman’s name always comes from a man.

Your name is actually your father’s name. Your mother has no name (chattel?).

Your father’s name is his father’s, which came at the expense of his mother, and on and on.

I think that is why many women use their birth surname as their middle name when they marry, for the purposes of the genealogy.

It’s great to be proud of your last name, but it is the last name of a man.


38 posted on 02/24/2012 4:21:00 PM PST by Retired Greyhound (.)
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To: ConservativeStatement
I like my father's name.

I honored him by keeping it.

Also, my records are all in that name, not in the name of the man I was married to for 10 years.

Not all civilized societies have a custom of women going through a name change and becoming "Mrs John Smith'--which is the name of the 2nd, 3th, 4th, 5th wife as well, as if they were interchangeable.
39 posted on 02/24/2012 4:21:37 PM PST by Nepeta
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To: ConservativeStatement
Pre-nuptual legal agreements.
Separate names (the feminist, btw, retains her FATHER’s name).
Separate bank accounts.
Separate bills and financial affairs.
Identical family roles - well, they're supposed to be identical.
Neuter gender roles.
Children raised in neuter play and role assignments.
Separate living arrangements in some marriages - some on both coasts.
Separate savings.
Separate vacations.

What is the point of ‘modern’ marriage and why would anyone want this kind of mental illness disguised as ‘becoming one?’

My wife would follow me into hell and I'd go there to rescue her. I'm beyond glad that I have a real wife and family.

40 posted on 02/24/2012 4:23:58 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth (I'm for Churchill in 1940!)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
SOmeone I know was trying to prove that his great grandfather was Cherokee. Turns out his great grandfather knew about the rolls, but being a proud Cherokee refused to sign. So if your ancestors are not on the rolls then that may be frustrating, but it should be considered an honor.

All I know is what my grandmother told me as a child. Her grandmother was a 'full blood' Cherokee. NOW I had no clue what it meant to contact the record keepers of the Cherokee after the 'trail of tears', but I was basically rebuffed that IF the name was NOT on the rolls then I was NOT entitled to '$$$$$", which was NOT the purpose of my inquiry.

I wanted to know about this woman and it has NOTHING to do with taking anything from a man or a child.

41 posted on 02/24/2012 4:24:38 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: ansel12; Ghost of Philip Marlowe
A man can impregnate 100 women in as many days.

More like 20 days, fewer if they are real hotties.

Wilt, is that you? aka ansel12-Chamberlain :-)

42 posted on 02/24/2012 4:25:38 PM PST by bondserv (Regarding Mitt Romney: I could not warm up to this guy if we were cremated together.)
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To: fishnuts2

What happens when to children who grow up with hyphenated names decide to marry each other? Do you end up with four hyphenated names?

What’s your name?

Joe Bob Smith-Jones-Johnson-Miller!

And what if two children each with four hyphenated names grow up and marry?

What’s your name?

John Robert Smith-Jones-Johnson-Miller-Williams-Brown-Davis-Wilson.

Let’s outlaw of hyphenated Americans and hyphenated marriages!


43 posted on 02/24/2012 4:26:59 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Just mythoughts
IT has NOTHING to do with NOT getting married. Think what you want. AND I never said that I was against the 'taking' of the man's name. However, it sure would be helpful IF the woman's name were recorded for the sake of locating them in the record books.... geeeeeeeze I am the '.....nista?

Alas, some people are quick to condemn without knowing anything much about you.
44 posted on 02/24/2012 4:28:06 PM PST by Nepeta
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To: ConservativeStatement

The correct descriptive is pretentious feminist trash


45 posted on 02/24/2012 4:29:07 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: Just mythoughts

“This notion that women are chattel for a man is primeval”

Your use of the word chattel shows you don’t understand the concept in the slightest.


46 posted on 02/24/2012 4:29:47 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Retired Greyhound
Technically, women don’t have last names. A woman’s name always comes from a man. Your name is actually your father’s name. Your mother has no name (chattel?). Your father’s name is his father’s, which came at the expense of his mother, and on and on. I think that is why many women use their birth surname as their middle name when they marry, for the purposes of the genealogy. It’s great to be proud of your last name, but it is the last name of a man.

I do NOT disagree with you. BUT for record keeping purposes the woman's father's name has NOT always been recorded. AND since the 'father's name is what gets recorded then there is much missing in the record books.

My comments nor my post has anything to do with uprooting 'tradition'. AND I still stand by my first comment, it seems to me to be honest to the offspring they should have a 'clue' into both sides of their heritage.

47 posted on 02/24/2012 4:31:15 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: ConservativeStatement

I personally know a guy and gal who both took each others hyphenated last name.
For instance Sue Jones became Sue Jones-Smith and Bob Smith became Bob Smith-Jones.
I wondered what name their kids would have, but they never had any.


48 posted on 02/24/2012 4:31:20 PM PST by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: driftdiver
Your use of the word chattel shows you don’t understand the concept in the slightest.

Then you give me the proper term that dismisses the heritage of woman.

49 posted on 02/24/2012 4:34:39 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Just mythoughts

It’s only the Feministas that associate patrilineal surnames with women and chattel.


50 posted on 02/24/2012 4:34:59 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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