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Ethicists call for killing of newborns to be made legal
Catholic Herald ^ | February 29, 2012 | Madeleine TEAHAN

Posted on 02/29/2012 11:57:06 AM PST by NYer


Professors from Milan and Oxford argue that 'foetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons'

Professors from Milan and Oxford argue that 'foetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons' (PA photo)

A leading British medical journal has published an article calling for the introduction of infanticide for social and medical reasons.

The article in the Journal of Medical Ethics, entitled “After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?” states in its abstract: “After-birth abortion (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled.”

The article, written by Alberto Giubilini of the University of Milan and Francesca Minerva of Melbourne University, argues that “foetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons” and consequently a law which permits abortion for certain reasons should permit infanticide on the same grounds.

The article follows alleged instances of sex-selective abortions throughout Britain raising alarm concerning the application of the 1967 Abortion Act.

Lord Alton, co-chairman of the All Party Parliamentary Pro-Life Group, said that infanticide was the “chilling and unassailable” logical step for a society that permits killing a baby one day before birth.

He said: “That the Journal of Medical Ethics should give space to such a proposition illustrates not a slippery slope, but the quagmire into which medical ethics and our wider society have been sucked.

“Personal choice has eclipsed the sacredness, or otherness, of life itself. It is profoundly disturbing, indeed shocking, to see the way in which opinion-formers within the medical profession have ditched the traditional belief of the healer to uphold the sanctity of human life for this impoverished and inhumane defence of child destruction.

“It has been said that a country which kills its own children has no future. That’s true. And a country which accepts infanticide or the killing of a little girl or a little boy because of their gender, the killing of a baby because of a disability, or the killing of a child because it is inconvenient, the wrong shape, or the wrong colour, also forfeits its right to call itself civilised.”

But Julian Savulescu, the editor of the Journal of Medical Ethics, has defended the publication of the paper on the British Medical Journal website. He said: “What is disturbing is not the arguments in this paper nor its publication in an ethics journal. It is the hostile, abusive, threatening responses that it has elicited. More than ever, proper academic discussion and freedom are under threat from fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society.”

He continued: “As Editor of the Journal, I would like to defend its publication. The arguments presented, in fact, are largely not new and have been presented repeatedly in the academic literature and public fora by the most eminent philosophers and bioethicists in the world, including Peter Singer, Michael Tooley and John Harris in defence of infanticide, which the authors call after-birth abortion.

“The novel contribution of this paper is not an argument in favour of infanticide – the paper repeats the arguments made famous by Tooley and Singer – but rather their application in consideration of maternal and family interests. The paper also draws attention to the fact that infanticide is practised in the Netherlands.

“Many people will and have disagreed with these arguments. However, the goal of the Journal of Medical Ethics is not to present the Truth or promote some one moral view. It is to present well reasoned argument based on widely accepted premises.”

Kenneth Boyd, associate editor of the Journal of Medical Ethics, said that the publication of the paper did not reflect his personal view and that the article had gone through the process of academic peer review.

Mr Boyd said: “I think what the authors are addressing is a minority problem following birth, where there would have been grounds for a termination and many people would feel that that circumstance is unfortunate but no reason for infanticide. But our feeling was that it’s better for these views to be discussed.”

The authors, when discussing children with Down’s Syndrome, state: “To bring up such children might be an unbearable burden on the family and on society as a whole, when the state economically provides for their care. On these grounds the fact that a foetus has the potential to become a person who will have an (at least) acceptable life is no reason for prohibiting abortion. Therefore… when circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissable.”

The authors also support infanticide for non-medical reasons but do not state at which point in a baby’s development infanticide would no longer be permissable because “it depends on the neurological development of newborns, which is something neurologists and psychologists would be able to assess”.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: abortion; ethics; eugenics; euthanasia; healthcare; infanticide; moralabsolutes; morality; obama; obamacare; prolife; uk
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1 posted on 02/29/2012 11:57:11 AM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 02/29/2012 11:58:07 AM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

watching intently....


3 posted on 02/29/2012 11:58:56 AM PST by papertyger
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To: NYer
 
 
I want a fighting chance to live and have armed myself to defend my right to life.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

4 posted on 02/29/2012 11:59:53 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: NYer

Hey, Molech - these guys belong to you?

Just turns my stomach.


5 posted on 02/29/2012 12:00:30 PM PST by jagusafr ("Write in Palin and prepare for war...")
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To: NYer

I wonder why it is thagt the only ones supporting abortion....are the people already born?


6 posted on 02/29/2012 12:00:54 PM PST by dvan (Send Them Home!)
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To: NYer

Leftists always tout their “ethics” instead of their “morals”.

I guess that’s because ethics are self defined (”you will be as gods, knowing good and evil”)
vs morals being externally and objectively defined.


7 posted on 02/29/2012 12:01:32 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: NYer

At this rate, eaglets will have a better chance than human babies.

The Decorah eagle cam: http://www.ustream.tv/decoraheagles


8 posted on 02/29/2012 12:03:25 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: NYer

How ironic that the vile editor of this piece of garbage is whining because...he’s getting death threats.


9 posted on 02/29/2012 12:07:00 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: All

These are evil sons of bitches...


10 posted on 02/29/2012 12:07:19 PM PST by Maverick68
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To: papertyger
As horrific as it is this is just the logical conclusion of the “choice” argument. Modern technology has rendered the “it’s just cells” argument moot. If a fully developed fetus isn’t considered a person why should a newborn?

When I read of children being sacrificed to false gods in the Old Testament I think “how horrible”; at least they thought they were sacrificing to a god, we sacrifice for convenience.

11 posted on 02/29/2012 12:08:09 PM PST by fungoking (Tis a pleasure to live in the Ozarks)
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To: fungoking
When I read of children being sacrificed to false gods in the Old Testament I think “how horrible”; at least they thought they were sacrificing to a god, we sacrifice for convenience.

Can you really say ours aren't being sacrificed to idols of gold?

12 posted on 02/29/2012 12:10:06 PM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: NYer
But Julian Savulescu, the editor of the Journal of Medical Ethics, has defended the publication of the paper on the British Medical Journal website. He said: “What is disturbing is not the arguments in this paper nor its publication in an ethics journal. It is the hostile, abusive, threatening responses that it has elicited. More than ever, proper academic discussion and freedom are under threat from fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society.”

Sickening.

Julian Savulescu (aka Satan) needs to be exercised from the human race, with great prejudice. Consider it "delayed infanticide".

13 posted on 02/29/2012 12:10:11 PM PST by liberty_lvr (Drill Gaia like a 3 am prom date)
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To: NYer
'foetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons'

You know, I could make exactly the same argument about over-educated (indoctrinated) university professors...

14 posted on 02/29/2012 12:10:56 PM PST by Doug Loss
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To: NYer

and I am not surprized... slippery slope already passed


15 posted on 02/29/2012 12:14:20 PM PST by Nifster
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To: NYer

Cartman’s mom wanted a 42nd trimester abortion, and now it’ll be legal.


16 posted on 02/29/2012 12:14:54 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: NYer

Fits well with the death panels in Obamacare.


17 posted on 02/29/2012 12:15:32 PM PST by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money" M. Thatcher)
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To: miss marmelstein

[ How ironic that the vile editor of this piece of garbage is whining because...he’s getting death threats. ]

They are just belayed abortion summons.....

We shouldn’t be threatenign this moonbat, we shoudl be thanking him because this will open the eyes of many fence sitters in the abortion debate when they see what the academics and “ethisists” actually think.


18 posted on 02/29/2012 12:17:08 PM PST by GraceG
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To: pgyanke

[Can you really say ours aren’t being sacrificed to idols of gold? ]

GOLD, hah! Our Modern Day Idols are nothing more than “Empty Government Promises built upon a Fiat Currency System”. Much like our Money.

At least with Gold idols of old, when people come to their senses they can melt the things down and put them to good use, What are you going to do with a wheelbarrow of cash, besides use it as toilet paper and wallpaper...


19 posted on 02/29/2012 12:19:15 PM PST by GraceG
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To: NYer

Obama is an ethicist?


20 posted on 02/29/2012 12:25:41 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: jagusafr

“Professors from Milan and Oxford argue that ‘foetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons’”

Perhaps these “professors” do not have the same moral status as actual persons either.


21 posted on 02/29/2012 12:27:19 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: NYer
He said: “What is disturbing is not the arguments in this paper nor its publication in an ethics journal. It is the hostile, abusive, threatening responses that it has elicited. More than ever, proper academic discussion and freedom are under threat from fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society.”

But that's the WHOLE problem, Dr. Idiot. We don't have a "LIBERAL" society!!!

In fact, polls conducted in the US and in Great Britain indicate that a majority of citizens here and across the pond ARE CONSERVATIVES and a small majority (approx 12-20%) of these populations are liberal.

You're a minority, foisting your sick values on others and you wonder why we hate your guts?

22 posted on 02/29/2012 12:27:37 PM PST by apoxonu
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To: NYer

All socialists believe this.. Might makes right.

It’s the reason that governments murder their citizens.


23 posted on 02/29/2012 12:33:41 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: fungoking
...at least they thought they were sacrificing to a god, we sacrifice for convenience.

I tend to believe their religious observances were remarkably convenient given their preferences and proclivities:

kind of like moslems....

24 posted on 02/29/2012 12:42:42 PM PST by papertyger
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To: NYer

Why not? Let’s do it. Bring the evil out from the veil of the womb for all to see. Turn away from God, and it’s always the same logical conclusion for liberalism/socialism/communism: death camps, pogroms, murder. Let’s revel in it out in the sunshine.


25 posted on 02/29/2012 12:46:31 PM PST by Rinnwald
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To: NYer
The authors, when discussing children with Down’s Syndrome, state: “To bring up such children might be an unbearable burden on the family and on society as a whole, when the state economically provides for their care. On these grounds the fact that a foetus has the potential to become a person who will have an (at least) acceptable life is no reason for prohibiting abortion. Therefore… when circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissable.”

I really want to curse here. It would rhyme with Duck Lew.

How is this child an unbearable burden??? Beautiful Nella Scroll down to see her blonde two-year-old precious girl.

26 posted on 02/29/2012 12:48:26 PM PST by Yaelle (Rick Santorum for People's Representative)
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To: NYer

As I just posted on a different thread, these idiots should be charged and convicted as accessaries to murder for supporting the killing of developing human beings. That would include teenagers being killed according to their ‘definition’. The charge and conviction would be more satisfactory in a state that allows capitol punishment.


27 posted on 02/29/2012 12:58:01 PM PST by Kalam (<: The answer is 42 :>)
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To: NYer

We calling killing a born person ‘murder’ and it is punishable by the death penalty. This guy is an idiot and is the type of person we create laws to protect ourselves from.


28 posted on 02/29/2012 12:59:04 PM PST by CodeToad (NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!)
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To: miss marmelstein
If you can kill a baby lying is no problem for you.

This is the latest propaganda trick - saying your evil opponents want to kill you somehow is supposed to give you a moral boost and denigrate anyone who disagrees with you.

29 posted on 02/29/2012 1:04:08 PM PST by DManA
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To: NYer

Journal of Moral Expedience


30 posted on 02/29/2012 1:14:30 PM PST by mikrofon (+ Pray for the Unborn +)
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To: NYer

marking....


31 posted on 02/29/2012 1:28:52 PM PST by FreedomProtector
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To: NYer

I vote we move anyone who is a so-called “ethicist” to the front of the line.


32 posted on 02/29/2012 1:31:05 PM PST by Antoninus (Mitt Romney -- attempting to execute a hostile take-over of the Republican Party.)
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To: The Great RJ
Fits well with the death panels in Obamacare.

Of course because as a senator, Obama opposed the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, an Illinois bill that was meant to provide protection for babies born alive after attempted abortions.

33 posted on 02/29/2012 1:33:58 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: Yaelle

OMG, but those children are beautiful!


34 posted on 02/29/2012 1:34:44 PM PST by papertyger
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To: NYer

The authors of the paper are quite correct.

There is no logical reason for a moral distinction between the abortion of a fetus 10 minutes before birth and the killing of a newborn 10 minutes after birth.


35 posted on 02/29/2012 1:37:21 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: DManA

These “people” need to understand that if they can dictate death for others, they, too, will be snuffed. After all, wasn’t it someone like Robespierre who was the last to go?


36 posted on 02/29/2012 1:40:50 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: Sherman Logan

Be careful with your wording. I can assume you mean that the 10 minutes either way, before or after, is murder in both cases. If however, that is not your intended conclusion you are not worth the time it took to write this response.


37 posted on 02/29/2012 2:03:00 PM PST by Kalam (<: The answer is 42 :>)
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To: NYer

bkmk


38 posted on 02/29/2012 2:13:36 PM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: NYer

There is no definition for “human life” anymore. That’s why people can get away with stuff like this and abortion and euthanasia and assisted suicide and forced sterilization and population control agendas and more.


39 posted on 02/29/2012 2:50:06 PM PST by mtg
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To: Kalam

My understanding is that the authors were specifically trying to point out that that abortion is murder, and murder is murder ala “A Modest Proposal” in which Jonathan Swift satirically proposed that the Irish eat their children. Unfortunately, everyone who has read it is assuming they really think people should have the right to a “post-birth abortion”, and are not getting the point they were intending to make which is: there is no distinction between abortion and murder, so if you allow one then ethically you must allow the other.


40 posted on 02/29/2012 4:23:39 PM PST by cyphergirl (Not so proud to be in the Freak State)
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To: cyphergirl

I understand your point and reference to the many small children Johnathen Swift observed and discussed with a satirical “flavor.” The Editor and lord Alton also see through it and recognize the depths to which society is regressing if in fact the logical conclusions were accepted.
However, the authors themselves don’t appear to be of the same opinion. That is unconsionable in word or deed if they believe any part of that tripe. I will never again use the phrase “think of it as ‘post-natal-obortion’,” as a point for capitol punishment. I will be stopped by a rememberence of this article by so called “medical ehticist’s.”


41 posted on 02/29/2012 5:32:55 PM PST by Kalam (<: The answer is 42 :>)
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To: NYer
Nothing new. Their mentors; the Nazi SS; figured how to do this earlier in history.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/disabilities/

42 posted on 02/29/2012 5:39:00 PM PST by HereInTheHeartland (I love how the FR spellchecker doesn't recognize the word "Obama")
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To: Kalam

If one is murder, so is the other.

Conversely, if either is not murder, then neither is the other.

Personally, I favor the first proposition.


43 posted on 02/29/2012 5:56:24 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: NYer

Pro-Life bump


44 posted on 02/29/2012 8:35:28 PM PST by Dajjal ("I'm not concerned about the very poor." -- severely conservative Mitt Rmoney)
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To: cyphergirl; Kalam

There have been other articles or at least one, lately, of “ethicists” drawing the same conclusion. Maybe one of the same ones in this article. No, they are dead serious. They are not standing against abortion at all.

If I am wrong, I will be glad.


45 posted on 03/02/2012 7:56:09 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: NYer; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

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What a strange world where "ethicists" are the most evil of all people because they promote evil in the guise of morals.

46 posted on 03/02/2012 7:59:04 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: cyphergirl

What do you know - here’s another one!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2852687/posts


47 posted on 03/02/2012 7:59:42 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: little jeremiah
Professors from Milan and Oxford argue that 'foetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons' (PA photo) A leading British medical journal has published an article calling for the introduction of infanticide for social and medical reasons.

Couldn't see that one coming, could we?

48 posted on 03/02/2012 8:16:02 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

The sky is the limit with declaring human beings as having “lives not worthy of living”. If the unborn can be killed using these (spit) “ethics”, than anyone can be killed using the exact same logic.


49 posted on 03/02/2012 8:18:59 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: little jeremiah

And will be.

Count on it.


50 posted on 03/02/2012 8:21:01 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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