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No Matter How Much Food You’ve Got Stored, It Will Eventually Run Out in a Full-Blown Collapse
SHTF Plan ^ | 3-1-2012 | Joe Alton, M.D.,aka Dr. Bones

Posted on 03/01/2012 10:29:42 AM PST by blam

No Matter How Much Food You’ve Got Stored, It Will Eventually Run Out in a Full-Blown Collapse

Joe Alton, M.D.,aka Dr. Bones
March 1st, 2012

The following article has been generously contributed by Joe Alton, M.D., aka Dr. Bones, of Doom and Bloom Nation where you can find strategies to stay healthy that include traditional medicine, alternative remedies, and medicinal/survival gardening. For the best in emergency and long-term disaster medical preparedness we encourage you to check out The Doom and Bloom Survival Medicine Handbook and follow Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy on their weekly podcast.

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To Survive, How Much Land?

Have you ever wondered how likely it is that you’ll be able to produce all the calories you’ll need on that piece of land you have? How much land for livestock? How about those solar panels you were thinking about? How many square feet of panels will provide you with the electricity you’ll need? There are ways to figure this out, and the answers may surprise you.

Let’s start by talking power. In a collapse situation, you’ll probably be able to rely on the sun and wind and not much else, unless you’ve built a watermill. The best answer might be installing some solar panels on your roof. This is a commonly available option that many people are considering nowadays. Let’s say part of your roof is facing south (the best place for a solar panel) and you get 7 hours or so of sunlight, on average. To get the amount of power that an average home uses in a year, you’ll need 375 square feet of panels. These things aren’t cheap, and that much hardware is going to be beyond the average family’s financial reach. This means that you’ll have to make decisions regarding how to ration the power you ARE able to produce. Look around the house, and you’ll probably see lots of things that are plugged in that you can eliminate if the stuff ever hits the fan. This is part of the planning you’ll need to do now, so that you’ll be better prepared for times of trouble.

How about food? If you have a family of four, you’ll want to provide at least 2000 or so calories per adult, more if you’re a big guy, maybe a little less for kids. The formula is simple: At least 30 calories per kilogram of body weight. One kilogram equals 2.2 pounds, so an 80 kilogram adult would weigh 176 pounds. 30 x 80 = 2400 calories/day. Less for kids, of course. All in all, you’ll need to provide 8000-9000 calories a day to maintain your family of four’s weight. So, let’s talk about some hard realities. No matter how much food you’ve got stored, it will eventually run out in a full-blown collapse. For your future success, better get that garden growing. Anyone who’s done it will tell you that there’s a learning curve, and you sure don’t want to plant that first seed in the midst of the Zombie Apocalypse.

Now, let’s separate your garden out into three categories: fruits, berries, and vegetables, then wheat, then corn. If you went totally vegetarian, you would need a little less than half an acre per person to provide all of those calories. That means a family of 4 needs almost 2 acres of farmable land!

The majority of this land will go to fruits, berries, and veggies. You’ll get the most nutrients in terms of vitamins and minerals from these. To decrease the amount of land you’ll need, consider companion planting. Some organic farmers will plant sunflowers, and then plant peas that will grow up the long stalks. The same goes with corn, squash, and pole beans. Squash will grow low to the ground, pole beans will take the intermediate area, and corn up high. Make sure you don’t put plants in the same family together, such as dill and carrots. They will share the same pests and diseases, which could possibly spread from one crop to the other.

If you stock up on wheatberries and use your handy dandy Wondermill, you can cut the land requirement down a bit. A mix of prepared food storage and gardening will keep you healthy and fed for a longer time. Corn isn’t a very land-efficient crop, but you might need it for your livestock. An alternative if you need to trim that acreage down a bit more is to stock up on bushels of corn feed; that’s about 55 pounds of feed for about $9-10. This is a good idea, but you’ll use a lot of it. It takes 10 bushels of corn to get a hog from weaning to slaughter. Btw, corn prices are going higher; they were less than 5 dollars a couple of years ago.

Don’t forget, you’ll need some land for hog wallows, goats, rabbits and chickens. All of these animals can be raised in relatively small amounts of space, and provide important protein. You’ll need a good 200 square feet for 3 hogs, more if they have piglets. You can get away with less for each of the other animals.

You might have to forget about cows; they aren’t land-efficient. If you want milk, think about goats, especially Nubian Goats. This variety can produce 1800 lbs. of milk a year, according to various sources. That’s a lot of milk! How about eggs? The average family of four will eat 1000 eggs or so a year. To reliably get this quantity, you’ll need about 10-15 birds in your henhouse, depends a lot on the breed and the ingenuity of the local foxes and raccoons.

You could probably squeeze this all in with an acre and a half of land. If you don’t have that much property, now you know you’ll need that much more food storage to make up the difference. This is information I thought was important for me to know, and now you know it too.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: beprepared; collapse; depression; getreadyhereitcomes; getyourhouseinorder; preparenow; prepperping; preppers; prepping; selfreliance; shtf; shtfplan; survival; survivalping
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To: DuncanWaring

LOL. And you pinged “headsonpikes”. CLASSIC!!!! LOVE IT!


101 posted on 03/01/2012 12:05:31 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: blam

If I run out then the vast majoity of the epople are dead. OK, that leaves plenty of reources to muster to continue living. Having land now isn’t important.


102 posted on 03/01/2012 12:06:45 PM PST by CodeToad (NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!)
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To: servantboy777

“It’s the city folk that’s gonna have issues.”

We got squirrels and pigeons... after they run out we might have to start eating Democrats... ick!


103 posted on 03/01/2012 12:08:56 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: bgill
"Some ranchers hang coyote carcasses in trees to deter the rest of the pack. Just sayin'. "

I think dying from a bullet trying to get something to eat is less painful than sitting down and just starving to death.

My prepper buddies are going to laugh their ass off when I tell them what we have forgotten to do.

Dig the burial trenches for the zombies ahead of time.

No one has ever mentioned that, LOL.

104 posted on 03/01/2012 12:09:28 PM PST by blam
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To: AppyPappy

You’re right - meat can be canned - - with knowledge and equipment. Sometimes I’m concern people see this type of survival as easier than it’s going to be. I should have more faith.


105 posted on 03/01/2012 12:10:30 PM PST by GOPJ (GAS WAS $1.85 per gallon on the day Obama was Inaugurated! - - freeper Gaffer)
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To: MrB
Yeah, I've seen that one a few times.

I used to read a blog written by a pig farmer over in Scotland. Whenever he sold a pig to a new customer, he'd go over how to take care of them and try to make sure the new buyer was really ready. Too often, according to him, he'd get to the part about choosing an abattoir, and the blood would run out of the new buyer's face, and they'd stammer something about “Can't you get pork without killing the pigs?”

I have to be careful talking about livestock in front of my sis-in-law. She can't handle any reminders that her food was once alive, not even the bones in the fried chicken.
(In her defense, she was abused by both her dad and her first husband, so a few psychological hang-ups are to be expected. In ordinary times, this is merely annoying. I don't know what she's going to do if things get rough.)

106 posted on 03/01/2012 12:12:51 PM PST by Ellendra ("It's astounding how often people mistake their own stupidity for a lack of fairness." --Thunt)
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To: papertyger

My bro told me about the FN 5.7. Nice weapon but flipping expensive. I’m sticking with a common round. 9 mike mike for handgun and 5.56/223 for long gun. I stock up on 22 ammo even though I don’t own one. Can always trade.

I want some more hardware but wife thinks I’m overdoing it.


107 posted on 03/01/2012 12:14:51 PM PST by USAF80
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To: allmendream; headsonpikes

I generally make a point of pinging him whenever I run across a reference to “heads on pikes”.

Especially if I’m the one making the reference. ;-)


108 posted on 03/01/2012 12:15:51 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: USAF80
I would think if the new gang sees rotting bodies laying around a farm that they will give it a wide berth. Better to attack a soft target.

Rotting bodies and a quarantine sign would be more effective than rotting bodies alone.

Just saying.
109 posted on 03/01/2012 12:16:37 PM PST by Ellendra ("It's astounding how often people mistake their own stupidity for a lack of fairness." --Thunt)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

The garden will be fully planted by next week and I picked up some more vegetable seeds today even though they were a want rather than a need. I try to save seeds for the following year. The tomato seeds saved from last year are sprouted and should be able to be set out. No, my little plot isn’t large enough to be sustainable but it’s better than nothing. As the article said it’s too late to start after the big crash and burn.


110 posted on 03/01/2012 12:19:09 PM PST by bgill (Romney & Obama are both ineligible. A non-NBC GOP prez shuts down all ?s on Obama's admin)
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To: NavyCanDo

I have made it a point to make almost all my weapons .22 for that reason. I have 5 rifles and a pistol that all shoot .22 LR. I have plenty of ammo.

My problem and it is a big one is I live in a city and getting out will be difficult. I fully realize that it will make my chances less but I have family that cannot be easily moved and I cannot just leave them.


111 posted on 03/01/2012 12:19:42 PM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: Ellendra

A Quarantine sign assumes literacy on the part of those you’re trying to dissuade.

That’s not a sure thing.

Especially given that those most in need of disuasion probably spent their lives to this point actively avoiding literacy.


112 posted on 03/01/2012 12:20:39 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Boogieman

Lotsa BBQ sauce and seasonings might solve that.


113 posted on 03/01/2012 12:22:06 PM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: packrat35
Anyone planning to need a gun for survival better learn to shoot using iron sights.

Scopes are great and very accurate, but they do get bumped off and have to be re-sighted in often. Not something you will want to do with a limited supply of ammo.

114 posted on 03/01/2012 12:26:57 PM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Beagle8U

I have never been able to use a scope well, so all mine are iron sights. I do however have plenty of ammo.


115 posted on 03/01/2012 12:30:17 PM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: servantboy777

In my neighborhood there are plenty of squirrels, rabbits, deer, raccoons, possum, morning doves, dogs and cats available for meat.

Yes. I would eat a dog or cat if it came to that.

I have enough space to raise any crop I wish and the means to defend what I grow. Add to that the mindset to defend it as well.

If there is a will, there is a way. I will make sure my family survives.


116 posted on 03/01/2012 12:30:36 PM PST by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: packrat35

Whats youre point? BTW you missed at least one more.


117 posted on 03/01/2012 12:30:58 PM PST by 556x45
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To: papertyger

I’m sticking to common calibers,
mostly 22lr, 12 guage, etc.


118 posted on 03/01/2012 12:31:30 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: USAF80
My bro told me about the FN 5.7. Nice weapon but flipping expensive.

There are cheaper alternatives on their way to market now.

https://www.masterpiecearms.com/proddetail.php?prod=MPA57sst

I understand they are also producing a carbine on the same receiver.

119 posted on 03/01/2012 12:32:13 PM PST by papertyger
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To: GOPJ

It’s strange what neighbors have given me this year - sewing supplies, canning jars, a new tool chest full of new tools (!) and garden stuff. Another neighbor asked if I’d please buy his extra lot (uh, duhhhh, yeah) and might be looking at a couple more. I just say thank you and shake my head.


120 posted on 03/01/2012 12:33:43 PM PST by bgill (Romney & Obama are both ineligible. A non-NBC GOP prez shuts down all ?s on Obama's admin)
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To: Beagle8U

There’s a section in the book “guerilla gunsmithing” that tells how to fairly acurately site in a rifle with one shot.

Their reason for this is that you don’t want to attract attention, but saving ammo would be another reason.


121 posted on 03/01/2012 12:34:17 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: bgill

For about 4 months, the Zombies will be warring for control of the urban areas. They won’t venture out until the food, alcohol and drugs are gone. They probably won’t go far and there won’t be many of them. The men will kill each other wholesale.


122 posted on 03/01/2012 12:35:28 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: blam
Dig the burial trenches for the zombies ahead of time.
No one has ever mentioned that, LOL.

No one mentions picking up taboo skills like explosives and counter intelligence either:
Learn to do your own demo. I won't tell your our plan, but in Lucifer's Hammer the local yokel's blow up a bridge to keep the city folk from reaching them.

Good advice. You can also do like the French Resistance and change signs and set up "fake but accurate" detours around your perimeter. This of course assumes GPS down/internet switch flipped, etc.

99% of people fleeing something would take this detour. If this counter-intel sign (a ruse) is compromised by someone, thats where you can get your QRF to intercept well before they reach your compound.

A sign like this may very well be on the way to our retreat, with a couple of "good ole boys" with trucks blocking the route.

As far as explosives, stay legal...nothing will land you in the fed pen faster than explosives and machineguns.....nothing.

Oh, did I mention that you should be skilled in use of chainsaws also? Learn how to weld/build an Abatis, blow/dig culverts, stretches corduroyed with felled trees, etc:

Good luck...Disclaimer: I really hope this stuff never gets used outside the educational realm.....and in complete accordance with applicable federal, state, and local laws. Also, every post by me is for morbid senses of humor for education purposes only. Do not attempt! ;)

123 posted on 03/01/2012 12:35:55 PM PST by DCBryan1 ("Forget the lawyers, FIRST kill the journalists!"- Die Ritter, die "nee" sagen)
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To: papertyger

I was thinking of the 5.56 in a handgun. (Not the mini AR type) That would be wicked. You would only have to carry one round.


124 posted on 03/01/2012 12:36:33 PM PST by USAF80
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To: 556x45

What’s my point? Well your idea seems to be lay down and die. NOT AN OPTION for me!


125 posted on 03/01/2012 12:37:06 PM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: 556x45
I know I'm unprepared and I am more prepared than most. If it goes SHTF in a bad way, (99%) of us are screwed. Most people are tied to a single theory/solution. This concept that people can survive and retain their humanity is flawed. I have thought about it and have come to the conclusion that there are 2 choices in a true apocalyptic scenario – die or become totally and truly vicious. Probably won't have to make that decision right away but eventually if it is TEOTWAWKI then that's the choice. Some here think they have it all figured out. They don’t. Even if they are prepared to do all that is necessary to survive the worse, the question is how about the people around you. People say they can do what is required but how about their wife, kids, parents ... What if your daughter or wife is the week link. Can you sacrifice them for your own survival? Righteous viciousness without hesitation may be what is needed in. Can most of the “preppers” here be that way? The answer is no. I know I can’t. I could be ruthless to a point. I will do everything I can to protect my family. I will be the bad guy if I have too. But the result is I will be prepared, ruthless and diligent but will need luck or divine assistance. Let’s take a simple scenario - A child wanders into your area hungry and needing help. Do you send it away or kill it. Will your family allow you to do either? Maybe the child is just a random transient. Maybe the child is a scout for a larger group who has no problem using children as infiltrators and for recon. You feed the child and now it knows there is food, fuel, water … at the location. When you aren't’t watching, the child vanishes to notify its controller. A week later you have snipers or a night attack on your position. Knowing that what do you do when a child wanders into your area and your wife/daughter takes them in? The key is what collapse scenario plays out and the speed. Based on that info determines my defensive, offensive or run and hide response. I pray we don't see it and if it does happen then it is like what we have seen in other modern countries and not like the apocalypse people are thinking here.
126 posted on 03/01/2012 12:42:19 PM PST by Free_in_Alabama (The average citizen is too lazy to steal from you, instead they are asking the government to do it)
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To: MrB
“There’s a section in the book “guerilla gunsmithing” that tells how to fairly acurately site in a rifle with one shot.”

Yes, I know how to do that, but you do that on a fixed target on ‘paper’. That doesn't help much out in the field where the scope is likely to get bumped off.

Iron sights are more reliable.

127 posted on 03/01/2012 12:44:07 PM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: MrB

I can say this, if I was taking care of a child with a swollen belly, I’d be none too choosey about imposing a duty on any adult that had more than they needed to get through the day.


128 posted on 03/01/2012 12:49:42 PM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: Ellendra

Some pigs are smarter than humans.

129 posted on 03/01/2012 12:53:25 PM PST by bgill (Romney & Obama are both ineligible. A non-NBC GOP prez shuts down all ?s on Obama's admin)
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To: Free_in_Alabama

It’d be easy if we lived in a vacuum, but we get to know and enjoy our family, friends, and neighbors. It will be a difficult decision to make about these people, yes, even some kin. These decisions can be made pre-emptively now as some way of preparing, but then need to be reaffirmed on the spot when the SHTF. This is where your level of “humanity” enters the equation, and can sink ya. Nothing will be easy.


130 posted on 03/01/2012 12:55:49 PM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: Free_in_Alabama

The other question would be, “Where will you be when SHTF?”. If you are home no problem. What if you are at work or shopping etc and cannot make it back to your fortress.

I can walk home from work but what if we are at the mall and something happens where we cannot travel back to the house then what? I only keep a few survival items in the car.


131 posted on 03/01/2012 12:58:23 PM PST by USAF80
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To: Osage Orange

Learn to flintnap.


132 posted on 03/01/2012 1:00:07 PM PST by bgill (Romney & Obama are both ineligible. A non-NBC GOP prez shuts down all ?s on Obama's admin)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

Don’t ya think it’d be a bit less risky to...

I dunno...

ASK?


133 posted on 03/01/2012 1:03:47 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: USAF80

I believe the S will HTF slowly.
You won’t be living a “normal” life one day and then everything goes to hell the next.


134 posted on 03/01/2012 1:05:54 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB
I agree. Violence and shortages will just slowly increase. If people still have jobs, they will go to them until fuel is unavailable or unaffordable. IMHO - it will be a slow motion train wreck where people will just realize that the SHTF one day. That day will be different for everyone.
135 posted on 03/01/2012 1:10:03 PM PST by Free_in_Alabama (The average citizen is too lazy to steal from you, instead they are asking the government to do it)
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To: bgill
Ha!!

If I had the time....

136 posted on 03/01/2012 1:12:32 PM PST by Osage Orange (E tan e epi tas)
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To: Free_in_Alabama

I’ve heard this guy interviewed on the survival podcast.
He’s been through such a collapse in Argentina and he can tell you what it’s like.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/


137 posted on 03/01/2012 1:13:17 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: DuncanWaring

Society will renew itself under these stressful circumstances.

As you say, nothing re-establishes the notion of effective authority better than heads on pikes.

In the fog of Hobbesian war, they provide a guiding light. ;^)


138 posted on 03/01/2012 1:21:14 PM PST by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: blam
Have you ever wondered how likely it is that you’ll be able to produce all the calories you’ll need on that piece of land you have? How much land for livestock?

If you're concerned about calories per acre, live stock is an inefficient way to get there. Not promoting vegetarianism here but it is a more efficient way to get protein.

139 posted on 03/01/2012 1:21:37 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: Ellendra
Rotting bodies and a quarantine sign would be more effective than rotting bodies alone.

How about a skeleton with an empty bbq sauce bottle beside it and a "make my day" sign? But that quarantine sign is a great idea as long as they believe it.

140 posted on 03/01/2012 1:23:54 PM PST by bgill (Romney & Obama are both ineligible. A non-NBC GOP prez shuts down all ?s on Obama's admin)
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To: blam

My food won’t run out, It mostly runs “by” instead, so I have a neverending fresh supply. I can grow and can the rest of my fresh produce. I live on Lake of the Woods as well, so we get the best Walleye fishing in the World, the year around.


141 posted on 03/01/2012 1:23:58 PM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP (If you come to a fork in the road, take it........)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

“I’ll plant a Cheeseburger and French Fry tree right by my beer lake.”

Big Rock Candy Mountain - Burl Ives:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPqrTaVXJhI


142 posted on 03/01/2012 1:25:40 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: bgill

“Warning: Live Snakes on Premises”


143 posted on 03/01/2012 1:26:24 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB; FerFAL308

FerFal’s posts here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:ferfal308/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change


144 posted on 03/01/2012 1:27:29 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Free_in_Alabama
"This concept that people can survive and retain their humanity is flawed."

Think of this quote which is one of my favorites:

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8) (1998)

Quark:
"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon."
145 posted on 03/01/2012 1:30:50 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: DuncanWaring

As good or possible better are Selco’s Post a Bosinain survivor. Much of which is in this thread:

A Survival Q & A: Living Through SHTF In The Middle Of A War Zone

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2798007/posts

Also there is a section in my Preparedness Manual on Selco’s expereinces.


146 posted on 03/01/2012 1:37:11 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Boogieman

>>We got squirrels and pigeons... after they run out we might have to start eating Democrats... ick!<<

Well, guess I’ll see ya in heaven.


147 posted on 03/01/2012 1:37:31 PM PST by servantboy777
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To: DCBryan1

I wish I could have seen that! I hoped it gave him food for thought in the immediate picture, ie, he needs to have a gun and learn to use it for his and his own families’ sake. The bigger picture-when conservatives say they believe in personal responsibility, they not only talk the talk, they walk the walk.

But as he’s a liberal, I doubt he’ll have much problem weaving that veil of smoke around his brain again.


148 posted on 03/01/2012 1:38:05 PM PST by mrsmel
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To: blam

Treatment for superficial wounds..granulated sugar and betadine...wrap and change daily.


149 posted on 03/01/2012 1:55:41 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: USAF80
I can walk home from work but what if we are at the mall and something happens where we cannot travel back to the house then what? I only keep a few survival items in the car.

99% of SHTF events such as economic collapse, natural disaster, war and martial law should allow you enough lead time to get home and a few more days to shore up. Off hand, the only scenerio that wouldn't would be a nuke or EMP. Second, after water, of survival items in your car should be a good local map that shows the little roadways. Don't rely on a working GPS. It doesn't hurt to plan out different routes and check them out now.

150 posted on 03/01/2012 1:59:12 PM PST by bgill (Romney & Obama are both ineligible. A non-NBC GOP prez shuts down all ?s on Obama's admin)
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