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No Matter How Much Food You’ve Got Stored, It Will Eventually Run Out in a Full-Blown Collapse
SHTF Plan ^ | 3-1-2012 | Joe Alton, M.D.,aka Dr. Bones

Posted on 03/01/2012 10:29:42 AM PST by blam

No Matter How Much Food You’ve Got Stored, It Will Eventually Run Out in a Full-Blown Collapse

Joe Alton, M.D.,aka Dr. Bones
March 1st, 2012

The following article has been generously contributed by Joe Alton, M.D., aka Dr. Bones, of Doom and Bloom Nation where you can find strategies to stay healthy that include traditional medicine, alternative remedies, and medicinal/survival gardening. For the best in emergency and long-term disaster medical preparedness we encourage you to check out The Doom and Bloom Survival Medicine Handbook and follow Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy on their weekly podcast.

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To Survive, How Much Land?

Have you ever wondered how likely it is that you’ll be able to produce all the calories you’ll need on that piece of land you have? How much land for livestock? How about those solar panels you were thinking about? How many square feet of panels will provide you with the electricity you’ll need? There are ways to figure this out, and the answers may surprise you.

Let’s start by talking power. In a collapse situation, you’ll probably be able to rely on the sun and wind and not much else, unless you’ve built a watermill. The best answer might be installing some solar panels on your roof. This is a commonly available option that many people are considering nowadays. Let’s say part of your roof is facing south (the best place for a solar panel) and you get 7 hours or so of sunlight, on average. To get the amount of power that an average home uses in a year, you’ll need 375 square feet of panels. These things aren’t cheap, and that much hardware is going to be beyond the average family’s financial reach. This means that you’ll have to make decisions regarding how to ration the power you ARE able to produce. Look around the house, and you’ll probably see lots of things that are plugged in that you can eliminate if the stuff ever hits the fan. This is part of the planning you’ll need to do now, so that you’ll be better prepared for times of trouble.

How about food? If you have a family of four, you’ll want to provide at least 2000 or so calories per adult, more if you’re a big guy, maybe a little less for kids. The formula is simple: At least 30 calories per kilogram of body weight. One kilogram equals 2.2 pounds, so an 80 kilogram adult would weigh 176 pounds. 30 x 80 = 2400 calories/day. Less for kids, of course. All in all, you’ll need to provide 8000-9000 calories a day to maintain your family of four’s weight. So, let’s talk about some hard realities. No matter how much food you’ve got stored, it will eventually run out in a full-blown collapse. For your future success, better get that garden growing. Anyone who’s done it will tell you that there’s a learning curve, and you sure don’t want to plant that first seed in the midst of the Zombie Apocalypse.

Now, let’s separate your garden out into three categories: fruits, berries, and vegetables, then wheat, then corn. If you went totally vegetarian, you would need a little less than half an acre per person to provide all of those calories. That means a family of 4 needs almost 2 acres of farmable land!

The majority of this land will go to fruits, berries, and veggies. You’ll get the most nutrients in terms of vitamins and minerals from these. To decrease the amount of land you’ll need, consider companion planting. Some organic farmers will plant sunflowers, and then plant peas that will grow up the long stalks. The same goes with corn, squash, and pole beans. Squash will grow low to the ground, pole beans will take the intermediate area, and corn up high. Make sure you don’t put plants in the same family together, such as dill and carrots. They will share the same pests and diseases, which could possibly spread from one crop to the other.

If you stock up on wheatberries and use your handy dandy Wondermill, you can cut the land requirement down a bit. A mix of prepared food storage and gardening will keep you healthy and fed for a longer time. Corn isn’t a very land-efficient crop, but you might need it for your livestock. An alternative if you need to trim that acreage down a bit more is to stock up on bushels of corn feed; that’s about 55 pounds of feed for about $9-10. This is a good idea, but you’ll use a lot of it. It takes 10 bushels of corn to get a hog from weaning to slaughter. Btw, corn prices are going higher; they were less than 5 dollars a couple of years ago.

Don’t forget, you’ll need some land for hog wallows, goats, rabbits and chickens. All of these animals can be raised in relatively small amounts of space, and provide important protein. You’ll need a good 200 square feet for 3 hogs, more if they have piglets. You can get away with less for each of the other animals.

You might have to forget about cows; they aren’t land-efficient. If you want milk, think about goats, especially Nubian Goats. This variety can produce 1800 lbs. of milk a year, according to various sources. That’s a lot of milk! How about eggs? The average family of four will eat 1000 eggs or so a year. To reliably get this quantity, you’ll need about 10-15 birds in your henhouse, depends a lot on the breed and the ingenuity of the local foxes and raccoons.

You could probably squeeze this all in with an acre and a half of land. If you don’t have that much property, now you know you’ll need that much more food storage to make up the difference. This is information I thought was important for me to know, and now you know it too.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: beprepared; collapse; depression; getreadyhereitcomes; getyourhouseinorder; preparenow; prepperping; preppers; prepping; selfreliance; shtf; shtfplan; survival; survivalping
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To: Kartographer

People just starting out or those that may be old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpfull. You can download it at:

http://tomeaker.com/kart/Preparedness1j.pdf

NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!

For those of you who haven’t started already it’s time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, a extra couple changes of oil and filters for your car, tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.

As the LDS say “When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

Or as the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
NIV Proverbs 22:3

Lastly this for the doubters and the scoffers.

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger.

Underestimation can be fatal.”


51 posted on 03/01/2012 11:26:10 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: blam

Good post. I agree with the experience requirement. If you are not set up and doing it when the SHTF you are screwed. Minimum of 3 years well hidden food per person to allow for mistakes, weather, theft, disease, etc to food production. In a full grid down figure on a survival rate of less that 20% but maybe 5% in metropolitan areas and those will be the cannibals. When there is no food everyone starves, everyone. No Red Cross, no FEMA, no Army to the rescue. Set up your farm with defensive traps. Each attacking group will fall for it since there is no learning curve. All in the attack group must be killed. Pre dig trenches in out of the way places for quick burial.

Or, put up a sign for free food and give out flowers as they rape murder and torture your wife, daughter and grand daughters. Your choice.


52 posted on 03/01/2012 11:26:49 AM PST by Any Fate But Submission
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To: MrB

There may be some truth to that; however, I bet they underestimated the viewship. I record and watch the playback. And I even think some of them are a bit out there, but there is some useful information that can be gleaned for use by us “normal” preppers. :-)


53 posted on 03/01/2012 11:28:16 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: papertyger; GOPJ; blam; MrB
All that meticulous planning and equipment acquisition and never a thought on what to run it off of...

excellent point, but also mention the complete lack of SKILLS and TRADES that will be needed. For instance my wife is an accountant and myself a fixed income broker....skills USESLESS to TEOTWAWKI (well accounting is good for quartermastering, etc)....so my wife picked up the following trades:
Her: Tailoring, knitting, spinning, weaving, tanning, wine making, gardening, herbalism.
Me: Gunsmithing, small engine repair, ham radio (just got my amateur extra last week), beekeeping (great for trade and security of buildings on your property), homebrewing, gardening, reloading, etc.

In addition, my wife and I have joined a emergency radio group and local boy scout troop to 1) volunteer and 2) learn new things.

......she still can't get me to go to a craft/quilt show....and I have to force her to a gun show ;(

One more thing: If you haven't found a church to join: Do that ASAP! I think having faith, skills, friends, and a prepper mindset will put everyone at a distinct advantage in the coming hard times.

Good luck out there!

54 posted on 03/01/2012 11:29:14 AM PST by DCBryan1 ("Forget the lawyers, FIRST kill the journalists!"- Die Ritter, die "nee" sagen)
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To: blam

Free Range Humans, tastes like chicken.


55 posted on 03/01/2012 11:30:12 AM PST by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: IMR 4350
Got another 15 to 20 pigs still roaming around

If the SHTF don't plan on those pigs or any other game being alive but a few weeks. Squirrels, rodents, domestic animal, birds, and snakes will be the next thing on the menu. A good 22LR and years worth of ammo is a good investment now. Also learn what the the Indians ate and used for medicine in the area you lived. Skunk Cabbage, Cattails, etc.

56 posted on 03/01/2012 11:31:02 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: GOPJ

You can can meat (see corned beef)


57 posted on 03/01/2012 11:32:36 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: Beagle8U

Check out “One Minute After”, it’s a book about surviving after an EMP attack. Basically most of the population will die in the first couple of months anyway.

All the ones that need medication, the elderly, physically handicapped, etc. Anyone not reasonably fit will not make it.


58 posted on 03/01/2012 11:32:56 AM PST by USAF80
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To: blam

What are you going to do about all them walkers?

59 posted on 03/01/2012 11:35:07 AM PST by McGruff (The south shall rise again.)
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To: Any Fate But Submission
"Pre dig trenches in out of the way places for quick burial. "

Someone has pointed out something that I over looked.

That's a good input...do it now while there is fuel for the back hoe.

60 posted on 03/01/2012 11:35:45 AM PST by blam
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To: papertyger

From all the silly posts that appear here on the subject.


61 posted on 03/01/2012 11:35:59 AM PST by 556x45
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To: NavyCanDo

All the game will be gone real quick.
Your meat will come from what you can raise yourself or trade for.


62 posted on 03/01/2012 11:38:37 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: USAF80
That may be, but even the physically fit won't last long without heat in winter.
63 posted on 03/01/2012 11:40:22 AM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: DCBryan1

I was being sarcastic, Bryan.

It’s pretty boneheaded to think somebody spends all their resources to buy a house without ever considering what they need to finish and maintain it.

Sorry.

Nevertheless, your post is spot on! The ability to produce necessities apart from modern methods would be absolutely inestimable.


64 posted on 03/01/2012 11:40:57 AM PST by papertyger
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To: SgtHooper

Best advice on the entire thread. The cities aren’t a good place, but a small community might be. You can survive alone if no one finds you, but there is strength in numbers.

Ultimately, though, no one gets out of here alive.


65 posted on 03/01/2012 11:42:24 AM PST by Larry Lucido (My doctor told me to curtail my Walpoling activities.)
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To: blam

IF the SHTF
1. Any gun is better than no gun as long as you have ammo. (see #2)

2. The 22LR will be the most useful weapon of all. You can buy years worth of ammo now for a small investment. They are accurate, and It will bring down all small game, wild and domestic (there won’t be much big game to bring down after a few weeks). Though they are not the best choice for home defense after the SHTF, the bad guys will have a hard time getting bullets for their guns in a short time, while you have thousands. Nuff said on that. The report does not carry far, giving away your position, and all members of the family can use it. (see #3). Oh, and you can still have your large bore defense weapons if it comes down to “them or you” situations.

3. Children need to learn how to shoot and defend themselves early on.

4. Big cities will become kill zones. Get away from them early.

5. Evil people without any fear of authority or restraint will become more evil.

6. Some medical training and knowledge would be beneficial, even if it’s just first aid.

7. Disease will become a part of life. Keep wounds clean and covered.

8. Learn how the American Indians survived in your area. The plants or roots they ate and used for medicine, how they trapped and cooked fish. Lots of books available now on the subject. Buy them now.

9. And for God’s sake learn how to obtain and sterilize water .


66 posted on 03/01/2012 11:42:45 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: McGruff
What are you going to do about all them walkers?

Grrrrrr....Walking Dead....love to hate that show! First, the "women don't need guns because they aren't a trained professional" (Season 1), and the last week's episode was "we need to be using more knives!"

FACEPALM!

This group literally walks right by military-grade weaponry perfect for zombie defense....Heck, I'd try to outfit my group with suppressed .22's anduse captured liberals as zombie bait.

67 posted on 03/01/2012 11:43:29 AM PST by DCBryan1 ("Forget the lawyers, FIRST kill the journalists!"- Die Ritter, die "nee" sagen)
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To: NavyCanDo
"Also learn what the the Indians ate and used for medicine in the area you lived. Skunk Cabbage, Cattails, etc. "

Good advice.

I learned about aspirin from one of the Doomsday Preppers episodes.

Aspirin

"The father of modern medicine was Hippocrates, who lived sometime between 460 B.C and 377 B.C. Hippocrates was left historical records of pain relief treatments, including the use of powder made from the bark and leaves of the willow tree to help heal headaches, pains and fevers."

I have a willow tree.

68 posted on 03/01/2012 11:43:29 AM PST by blam
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To: Any Fate But Submission

The survivors will be the people on the move. Hike the Appalachian Trail for a few months, scoping the food sources. The Zombies won’t go deep into the woods. When the smoke clears, you find a safe place.


69 posted on 03/01/2012 11:43:43 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: Beagle8U

I live in a warm climate. The gator population will be a lot smaller.

The cold weather folks will just have to start cutting down trees and scrounging for burnable materials. Doors and furniture would make passable firewood, enough to last at least the first winter. Siphon gas and diesel from abandoned vehicles and gas stations etc.


70 posted on 03/01/2012 11:45:51 AM PST by USAF80
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To: blam
I have acreage land near the Mississippi. Property backs up to a wooded park with tillable fields adjacent to the river. Onsite well with a backup manual pump. New septic system. Wood fireplace for home heating and upgraded insulation.

Reloading components including lead casts for at least 3 calibers, one of which is blackpowder. Making new brass or primers is still beyond current capabilities, but I'm working on it.

Yeah... We've been planning all this for a while now... Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

71 posted on 03/01/2012 11:46:46 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: MrB
All the game will be gone real quick.

The big stuff, for sure. Before long, the pellet rifle will be more valuable than the .243.

72 posted on 03/01/2012 11:46:55 AM PST by papertyger
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To: DCBryan1; waterhill; ixtl
Well, needless to say, my neighbors face looked like I just skinned a baby harp seal in front of him.....and I stopped getting "Holiday Cards" from them.

ROTFLMAO!

SHTF (((ping)))

73 posted on 03/01/2012 11:47:05 AM PST by Envisioning ( Call me a racist................, one more time......................)
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To: Kartographer
Thanks for posting the updated version. Do you have a list of what's changed from the "i" version?

FRegards,
PrairieDawg
74 posted on 03/01/2012 11:47:58 AM PST by PrairieDawg (Bring out your dead - to vote in NY state!)
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To: papertyger

I need to buy a few more tins of .177...
I have a single shot break-barrel that shoots at over 1000 fps.
That should do in a squirrel or bunny real good... :)


75 posted on 03/01/2012 11:49:33 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: blam
Prepping is about to go main-stream.

You're right ...

76 posted on 03/01/2012 11:49:34 AM PST by GOPJ (GAS WAS $1.85 per gallon on the day Obama was Inaugurated! - - freeper Gaffer)
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To: NavyCanDo

I have an old Marlin 22lr and two 22lr pistols, but befor I use them I can kill small game with my Pellet rifles. Pellets are cheap and don’t make much noise. Cats taste like rabbits and dogs taste like beef. Yum Yum.


77 posted on 03/01/2012 11:50:41 AM PST by Do the math (Doug)
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To: NavyCanDo

I have an old Marlin 22lr and two 22lr pistols, but befor I use them I can kill small game with my Pellet rifles. Pellets are cheap and don’t make much noise. Cats taste like rabbits and dogs taste like beef. Yum Yum.


78 posted on 03/01/2012 11:50:56 AM PST by Do the math (Doug)
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To: DCBryan1
Heck, I'd try to outfit my group with suppressed .22's and use captured liberals as zombie bait.

LOL! I like the way you think!

79 posted on 03/01/2012 11:52:18 AM PST by Envisioning ( Call me a racist................, one more time......................)
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To: allmendream

Shoot, there’s too many people who think potatoes grow above the ground, like an eggplant. Or that owning a pig means getting free pork and sausage forever, without ever killing the pig. I had someone try to convince me once that gooseberries were poisonous. And another person tried to claim that you can eat any plant in the world “as long as you eat it slowly enough.”

Urbanites will eventually come looking, but I think the herd will be drastically thinned by that point. Unfortunately, it’s the most dangerous ones who will be left.


80 posted on 03/01/2012 11:52:29 AM PST by Ellendra ("It's astounding how often people mistake their own stupidity for a lack of fairness." --Thunt)
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To: PrairieDawg

Here are some of the changes one I increased the margin on the left so it would work better if someone prints it and wants to put it in a binder.
I shorten the section on the various types of beans and grains and added the following:

27. A Highly-Mobility 72 Hour Kit-by Ward Dorrity (Up Dated
64. Medical Kits for Self-Reliant Families-by Jackie Clay
72. The Large M17 Medic Bag
74. Antibiotics and Their Use in Collapse Medicine™-By Dr. Bones
280. 10 Morale Boosters for any Worst Case Scenario-by Jack C
329. My SHTF Wartime Experience-by Selco
351. Selco on Signs of SHTF-by Jay


81 posted on 03/01/2012 11:52:38 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: PrairieDawg
My apologies. I just installed diffpdf (windoze and Linux versions available) and can see the diffs myself. Sorry for the ping.

FRegards,

PrarieDawg
82 posted on 03/01/2012 11:55:03 AM PST by PrairieDawg (Bring out your dead - to vote in NY state!)
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To: 556x45
Youll kill or be killed. Id rather not have to go that road.....

The other option is to die and let your family starve. I'd rather NOT go down that road.

83 posted on 03/01/2012 11:55:07 AM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: Larry Lucido

The need for formidable militias, say 10-20 well-armed fighters, can discourage a sizable group of attackers, when entering the foray from an unexpected front (as a support militia coming to the defenders currently under assault), and is even more of a need in the cities. I feel for the preppers in the city apartments, for example, who are good people, but would be facing some tough decisions.


84 posted on 03/01/2012 11:56:15 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: DCBryan1

I have large dogs to serve the same purpose. After all, when the SHTF, they gotta eat also...


85 posted on 03/01/2012 11:56:42 AM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: blam

Anyone believe it’s just a coincidence that post-apocalyptic and SFTF preparedness shows have become hugely popular on TV lately? And there is a flood of ads for food storage, and gun retailers.

Humankind either instinctively knows something has been set in motion, or we are just becoming overly paranoid. I hope it’s the later.

A few of those shows are:
Extreme Survival
Man vs. Wild
Survivorman
Jeremiah
Jericho
Falling Skies
And several reality shows from building shelters, preparing for bug-outs, and of course numerous gun themed shows.


86 posted on 03/01/2012 11:57:17 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: Ellendra

There was an old joke about a farmer with a three legged pig.
Seems the pig was super smart and had saved the lives of the family members many times over.

When asked why the pig only had three legs,
the farmer replied “when you have a pig that’s that good, you don’t eat him all at once”.


87 posted on 03/01/2012 11:57:17 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: blam
The next day, a bigger and even hungrier herd arrives wanting your stuff.

Some ranchers hang coyote carcasses in trees to deter the rest of the pack. Just sayin'.

88 posted on 03/01/2012 11:58:15 AM PST by bgill (Romney & Obama are both ineligible. A non-NBC GOP prez shuts down all ?s on Obama's admin)
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To: blam

sfl


89 posted on 03/01/2012 11:58:25 AM PST by phockthis (http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm ...)
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To: SVTCobra03
Already have a couple bows.........

Not a cross bow though.

I own a compound and a recurve.....

Still you can lose arrows...easy enough. I've done it....at $10 or more an arrow...plus a $10 or more per broadhead...it gets expensive to lose or break arrows. HA!!

Bullets are cheaper!!

BTW, I've a brand new never shot compound bow for sale!! If you know anyone looking....for one...Send them my way.

FRegards,

90 posted on 03/01/2012 11:58:54 AM PST by Osage Orange (E tan e epi tas)
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To: Ellendra

Here it is:


A traveling salesman trying to make a buck was driving through the plains of Nebraska when he decided to stop at a farmhouse coming up on his left.
As he was walking up the driveway toward the front door of the house, a pig with three legs caught his eye. It was just hobbling through the grass.
When the farmer answered the door and asked what he was selling, the salesman first asked about the three legged pig.
“That pig is the most amazing pig in the land, son.” The farmer said
“Last year, our house caught fire when we were all asleep and that pig ran in and woke us all up one by one and saved our lives!”
The salesman was surprised. “That is one special pig” He said.
The Farmer replied, “That’s not all. Last summer, that pig jumped into the pond and dragged my drowning son to safety. He would have died.”
The salesman was in disbelief as to how incredible this pig was. “One question. Why does he have 3 legs, is it from the fire?” He asked
“No son, ya see, a pig like that you just don’t eat all at one time.”


91 posted on 03/01/2012 11:59:05 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Ellendra
"And another person tried to claim that you can eat any plant in the world “as long as you eat it slowly enough.” "

Don't Eat Polk Salad

""The roots, berries, seeds and mature stems and leaves of pokeweed are poisonous," says Extension Food Scientist Jean Weese. There are at least three different types of poison in this plant -- phytolaccatoxin, triterpene saponins, an alkaloid, phytolaccin, and histamines.

92 posted on 03/01/2012 11:59:48 AM PST by blam
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To: blam; headsonpikes
The next day, a bigger and even hungrier herd arrives wanting your stuff.

If you survive the first few herds, a collection of heads on pikes around the perimeter might "encourage les autres" to move along.

93 posted on 03/01/2012 11:59:57 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Dead Corpse
“Making new brass or primers is still beyond current capabilities, but I'm working on it.”

If you plan ahead and store a supply of ‘white tip’ kitchen matches, you can easily make ‘cap lock’ muzzle-loader primers with the tips and alum soda cans.

A crude form of black-powder can be made with nothing more than charcoal and pig manure.

94 posted on 03/01/2012 12:00:25 PM PST by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: bgill

I would think if the new gang sees rotting bodies laying around a farm that they will give it a wide berth. Better to attack a soft target.


95 posted on 03/01/2012 12:02:12 PM PST by USAF80
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To: Ellendra
Yep, so as I line them up in my scope I will reflect upon the likelihood of just how many people they ended up killing, how much food they stole from starving women and children, to get themselves out of the city and survive day to day - all to end up at the end of my driveway (and eventually in pig slop).
96 posted on 03/01/2012 12:03:11 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: DCBryan1

I have already begun assessing people I know for useful skills. Those with skills I need will be permitted to join up with me. Deadwood will be set adrift.

I have tried to get many I know to, at least, save up some for routine emergencies with little luck. I will NOT be their savior. Hard choices will need to be made and I am starting now.

Call me cold, but thats how it is.


97 posted on 03/01/2012 12:03:26 PM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: MrB

I’ve also become a big fan of the 5.7x28 lately. All the positives of .22lr (except price) without the negatives.

I wouldn’t be my first choice at the “O.K. Corral,” but I’d prefer it for those impromptu hunting trip firefights any day.


98 posted on 03/01/2012 12:03:26 PM PST by papertyger
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To: blam
"The majority of this land will go to fruits, berries, and veggies. You’ll get the most nutrients in terms of vitamins and minerals from these."

Sorry, but this guy talks like a hobby gardener. Those plantings are labor and water intensive, and vulnerable to disease and pestilence. Stick to basics. If you want to survive, focus on hardy proven crops successfully raised by small family groups. Crops that sustained civilizations in the Americas for centuries: corn, beans, and chilli. You can try growing your "fruits and veggies" after you've fought off the rabbits, dear, horn worms, aphids, Japanese beetles, and zombies.
99 posted on 03/01/2012 12:03:36 PM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: blam
"Pre dig trenches in out of the way places for quick burial. " Someone has pointed out something that I over looked. That's a good input...do it now while there is fuel for the back hoe.

When your neighbors ask WTH you are doing you DONT tell them they are pre-dug graves. Tell them that you are building individual fighting positions (just kidding) or better yet, future site of your septic system run off or animal waste disposal of parts that the slaughterhouse doesn't want. Just be sure to dig 30 degrees outside LOS of LEO satellites and in full shade, under a tree when digging, or at night. Satellites are GREAT at spotting freshly dug ground, even at the shallow grave level.

100 posted on 03/01/2012 12:05:09 PM PST by DCBryan1 ("Forget the lawyers, FIRST kill the journalists!"- Die Ritter, die "nee" sagen)
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