Posted on 03/02/2012 5:57:22 PM PST by Iam1ru1-2
A “claim” made by an mere officer does not commit the U.S. to ownership of anything. Such ownership decisions are made way above their pay grade. Ownership claims have never been by the U.S. government. The Russians have made ownership claims, and enforced them on the islands themselves.
Your quote was “2) The U.S. has never actually claimed the islands. Russia claimed the islands back under the Tzars.”
My point was that the officers of the Jeannette Expedition did in fact claim the islands as territory of the United States in 1881. After drifting in ice floes in search of a Northwest Passageway for 2 years, they discovered the islands, Russia did not. This is published fact in many historical documents and disputes your statement that there was no such claim.
A direct quote from the log journal of George Wallace Melville states, “...I, as a commissioned officer and proper representative of the Government, landed first; and, having claimed the island as the territory of the United States, invited my companions on shore...” (pg. 21 of “In the Lena Delta”, in reference to the discovery and naming of Henrietta Island.)
Your original statement was erroneous and deserved a fact check in honor of the men who died in service to this country.
My original statement is correct. The U.S. has never claimed the islands. The actions of some officer do not bind the U.S. government, and the U.S. government has never recognized or claimed the islands as American territory.
Believe what you will, but I presented the proof that your statement was wrong. The men of the Jeannette Expedition discovered the islands, claimed the islands for the US, planted a flag on the islands, and acting as representatives of the U.S. Government, claimed them as territories of the United States. It’s historical fact. What the U.S. Government in D.C. did from that point is separate, but it dishonors the memory of the men who sacrificed their lives on this mission to state that “no claim was made” when it certainly was.
By the way, George Wallace Melville wasn’t “some officer”. He was a hero and deserves much more respect than you’ve given him.
By the way, George Wallace Melville wasnt some officer. He was a hero and deserves much more respect than youve given him.
I have explained the situation to you, you do not accept the explanation. That is your decision. I am certain that this post will not convince you either. I accept that. I consider this matter closed. Good luck in your future endeavors.
"...I, as a commissioned officer and proper representative of the Government, landed first; and, having claimed the island as the territory of the United States, invited my companions on shore..." - G.W. Melville
It's plain English that the claim was made on behalf of the U.S. Government - those are Melville's words verbatim. We went from you stating that there was never a U.S. claim, to you stating that claims by Naval Officers are meaningless because they don't represent the government in any official sense. I suppose that's progress.
As I stated before, my ancestor perished on this expedition. I know this history well. Your original statement was misleading and has now been corrected, although you refuse to concede that point. That is fine, as I've put the facts out there (with sources). The Navy recognizes the claim, but the State Department does not. None of that takes away from how the islands were discovered and who laid claim to them first.
And your comments about "mere officer", "some officer", "above his pay grade" and that his heroism is "not relevant" are offensive. George Wallace Melville is considered the father of the modern U.S. Navy. Your words show no respect to a man that survived more and achieved more than any modern man could imagine.
And with that, I too, am finished.
BTTT
**Authors addendum, Feb. 17, 2012: This is not a new issue. In fact the Bush and Clinton administrations are directly at fault for the same inaction. A maritime agreement negotiated by the U.S. State Department set the Russian boundary on the other side of the disputed islands, but no treaty has ratified this action. Consequently, it is within the presidents power to stop this giveaway. The Alaska delegations failure to put pressure on the administration is inexplicable. State Department Watch, an organization that assisted with this article, has confronted each administration and is currently confronting the Obama administration and has been met by silence. Im hoping this piece will help reinvigorate efforts to stop this handover.**
De Nardo explains, with *maps*:
I’m a cartographer AND I have read the treaty. There is NOT a problem.
So we have a paper claiming the moon, right?? It's not how this stuff works.
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