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Opinion: Windows 8 vs. OS X Mountain Lion why Apple Suddenly Sucks
Digital Trends ^ | March 3, 2012 | Rob Enderle

Posted on 03/05/2012 4:37:26 AM PST by SmokingJoe

With Apple and Microsoft both recently displaying their respective operating systems: Mac OS X Mountain Lion and Windows 8. Digital Trend's Rob Enderle explores why Apple's lion may no longer be king of the mountain.

This last week has been fascinating. Both Apple and Microsoft introduced their new operating system for PCs. Interestingly, folks are raving about Windows 8 and ranting at OS X Mountain Lion. Both products are far from final and, of the two, Mountain Lion has far fewer changes. Given that we don’t like change, you’d think folks would like that. But it seems they are comparing Mountain Lion to iOS and the last version of the MacOS, and finding it either doesn’t change enough or changes too much. In short, Apple may have inadvertently announced a tweener product. I also think we are seeing the first indication that Apple can’t function as well without Steve Jobs. Let me explain.

Early Products Are All About Perceptions I was looking at the PlayStation Vita the other day, and remembering that, had this product come out two years ago, it would have easily eclipsed the hottest product of that time — the iPad — which cost more and did far less. Over time, however, perceptions changed, and even though it is the best hand held game system ever released, people look at it in the shadow of the iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch, and seem to find it wanting.

(Excerpt) Read more at digitaltrends.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: apple; ipad; microsoft; tablets

1 posted on 03/05/2012 4:37:36 AM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe

Interesting article. Thanks.


2 posted on 03/05/2012 4:53:31 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: SmokingJoe

—Then he brought out the iPad. And even though it was really just a netbook without a keyboard, folks saw the result as magical and different—

I see it as a netbook without a keyboard. A friend, who is ALL APPLE bought one and he said it’s pretty much useless to him. It’s no more portable than his apple laptop and is not as user friendly (no keyboard), though one of our friends love his - mostly because he uses it for his young son to play games while dad’s trying to work.


3 posted on 03/05/2012 4:54:21 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: SmokingJoe

Metro on a PC is going to be as popular as Vista.


4 posted on 03/05/2012 4:56:38 AM PST by Tzfat
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To: cuban leaf

Win8 is going to be another rushed-to-market bit of trash that the public won’t glom on to. Have you seen the requirements for the OS? They’re not really even marketing it to your standard desktop user. It’s completely a tablet/touchscreen OS, which I think is going to come back to haunt them much like Windows CE did.

Your average everyday user is comfortable with a MaK setup. Touchscreen monitors are too expensive for universal adoption.


5 posted on 03/05/2012 4:58:10 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: SmokingJoe

A lot of what this guy says makes sense, and I confess I’ve never been an apple fan, but it looks like he hasn’t either. It is as though he’s using Jobs’ absence to pile onto what he already believed. Essensially, the article could be summarized in one sentenc:

“Apple products were always crap, supported solely by Jobs’ marketing genius, but now that he is gone, the curtain is removed and the company is doomed.”


6 posted on 03/05/2012 4:58:10 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf
Enderle has long been an Apple basher. No surprise here.

Then came the return of Steve Jobs who, after five years, convinced people to look at Apple and its products differently.

Jobs didn't "convince people to look at Apple and its products differently", he revised and simplified the whole product line. Then he focused Apple on far fewer products.

7 posted on 03/05/2012 5:01:41 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: SmokingJoe
Just listen to this crap:

From the first iPod (which kind of sucked) to the first iPhone (which really sucked as a phone), ...... the products they competed with were far worse.

He's telling me that Apple stuff sucks, it's just that everybody else sucks worse.

8 posted on 03/05/2012 5:05:48 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: rarestia

Although the tile system doesn’t appeal to me, I think the system will work well as it is being designed to do. As I understand it, I will be able to continue doing whatever it is I am doing, from computer to cellphone to tablet, as smooth as possible.

No save, cut, paste, downloading or anything like that, or a simplified process of doing that.

I think, for most people, it will be a positive experience.


9 posted on 03/05/2012 5:11:57 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: rarestia

—Touchscreen monitors are too expensive for universal adoption.—

They’re also a pain in the butt. One of the reasons I got my Panasonic GF1 camera when the GF2 was about to be released was because the GF2 went to touch screen. The knob on the top of my camera that I use constantly is gone in the GF2. You have to work touch screen settings to get it to do the same things. and there is always the accidental touch of the wrong place - something I do so often with my Samsung Galaxy S phone that I’ve come to slamming the phone on the ground several times.

The one and only thing that gets me actually “break stuff” angry is failing computer tech.

I think touch screens are great for some games. That’s about it. I need physical feedback. Imagine working the steering wheel, shifter, gas and brake pedals on your car via touch screen. Blech!


10 posted on 03/05/2012 5:12:10 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: SmokingJoe

This article is not journalism. The author notes Mountain Lion only includes minimal changes, which is true, and Windows 8 includes major changes, which is also true. And from that, he concludes people love Windows 8 and people hate Mountain Lion. Where is the evidence?

The only article I read on Windows 8 took Microsoft to task for (once again) changing Windows’ user interface, and begging Microsoft to make the Metro interface an option, rather than the default, and begged Microsoft to adopt Apple’s model of $25 OS upgrades.

As for the iPad, I was a big skeptic. I waited until it had been out a year, and spoke with friends who had one. Only then did I buy one, and in short order, I was sold. My company has an annual CIO conference. The biggest change in the 2011 conference were the number of attendees who had iPads (in addition to laptops). All of the CIOs were using iPads as their primary business email device.

Where the PC encouraged complexity in application software, the iPad has forced simplicity back into software.


11 posted on 03/05/2012 5:13:59 AM PST by magellan
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To: cuban leaf

I hate onscreen keyboards. Because I don’t have the tactile sensation, I have to look at every key I press to make sure it’s the right key.

I’m waiting to see if any of the Window phones will have a keyboard.


12 posted on 03/05/2012 5:15:32 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30

—I hate onscreen keyboards. Because I don’t have the tactile sensation, I have to look at every key I press to make sure it’s the right key.—

Same here. It is not something that will go away, either. It is a problem. Even the vibrating keyboards only tell you your touch took. It doesn’t tell you what you touoched.

I’m a bass player and play both fretted and fretless bass. Fretted gives you the feel of the frets. With fretless you have to do a lot more practicing to get the intonation right, to be sure you hit the note and are not sharp or flat. And you use your ears to make subtle corrections.

Using a touch screen is a bit like being a deaf man playing a fretless bass.


13 posted on 03/05/2012 5:22:09 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: SmokingJoe

How dare this A-hole write something critical of Apple and give reasons for his opinion!

The rules of the internet is that Microsoft is bad and evil, Apple is good and perfect.


14 posted on 03/05/2012 5:23:44 AM PST by VanDeKoik (If case you are wondering, I'm supporting Newt.)
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To: cuban leaf

I have a touchscreen Logitech Harmony universal remote for my entertainment system, and I have the same issues. Nothing worse than fast forwarding through the commercials on a DVR’d show and skipping right past a critical part in the show due to a missed button.

Tactile response rules the day and always will, IMO.


15 posted on 03/05/2012 5:30:15 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Jonty30

I’m not saying it won’t work well for the segment for which it’s designed, but it will not be a universal player in the market.

I’m constantly chuckling at the dolts in the IT industry touting the next tablet or smartphone as a “PC killer.” The PC isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. It’s as ubiquitous as a television or a car. It’s designed a certain way to do a certain thing, and until they can figure out how to cram multiple video GPUs, SSDs, and liquid cooling into a laptop for hardcore gamers, the PC will continue to rule for that particular market.


16 posted on 03/05/2012 5:32:39 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: SmokingJoe
I was looking at the PlayStation Vita the other day, and remembering that, had this product come out two years ago, it would have easily eclipsed the hottest product of that time — the iPad — which cost more and did far less.

If the iPad had not come out, the PlayStation Vita would never have existed. Manufacturers were all gun-shy about tablets at the time. Apple proved the market really did exist. This whole article is nonsense.

17 posted on 03/05/2012 5:43:24 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: rarestia

I think you’re correct, for the time being, in regards to hardcore gamers. That’s no different than gearheads and cars.

The average person, who buys a standard car, is generally well served with any standard model. But the gearheads, who want to push the limits on their vehicles are the ones that need 700 hp.

That’s not who the computer ecological environment is being designed for.


18 posted on 03/05/2012 5:56:27 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: cuban leaf

First, let me say I am NO Apple fan boy. That said, the iPad is a very useful tool for many things. It is NOT good for everything, or a replacement for a computer. Check out the Presonus StudioLive series of digital mixers, and the iPad remote mixing app and the iPhone monitor apps (studiolive remote and qmix). My first hand experience is that it is an awesome system that does what other systems that cost tens of thousands of dollars more do. There are you tube videos that show how it works.


19 posted on 03/05/2012 6:04:06 AM PST by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: jdsteel

Yes, you nail one of it’s useful features. I think it would also be a great tool for home use using Wi-fi. It would be a great cookbook in the kitchen, complete with internet access. In that way, it very much reminds me of the flat screens used on the Jupiter mission in 2001, A Space Odyssey.


20 posted on 03/05/2012 6:09:31 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf

Whenever I want to hop on the ‘net for a bit, I grab the iPad, not a laptop. I take it with me on trips...much more TSA friendly. A flexible bluetooth keyboard and it’s perfect for simple notes. I do NOT take it to the office.


21 posted on 03/05/2012 6:16:25 AM PST by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: jdsteel

For me it would be great for the internet except for one problem: When I’m on the web I do a LOT of typing (e.g. this post). Those touch keyboards are as effective and will take over physical keyboards in popularity about as well as the touch pad replaced the mouse. i.e. it didn’t.

I must admit that not having to unfold a PC in your coach seat on an airplane is a big plus. For casual surfing, games, movies or “setting on the counter” stuff like using as a kitchen cookbook, I think the pads are really an awesome alternative to a PC. But if I’m only going to buy one device, it’s gonna be a pc. And as my family’s priorities continue to change, I don’t even see a pad in our near (next five years) future.


22 posted on 03/05/2012 6:43:32 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: rarestia

I look as Win 8 as the true potential PC killer.

and not in a good way.


23 posted on 03/05/2012 6:57:45 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: SmokingJoe

I got an HP TouchPad for $99, and a wireless charger for it for only $30. It is incredible. WebOS runs circles around iOS and can multitask like mad. It has killer FB and Twitter apps and tons of games. Even with HP canceling it, I still want another one. At $200 or less, it makes sense. the iPad 2 Wifi at $500 makes utterly no sense at all.


24 posted on 03/05/2012 7:03:54 AM PST by montag813
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To: cuban leaf

I got an iPad 1 when the 2 came out and the 1’s price went down. I rarely use my netbook any more, even though the iPad is not a good platform for a writer like myself if you actually want to compose a piece on it - thanks to the virtual keyboard. I’ve tried a couple of Bluetooth keyboards and they help, but at the expense of portability.

But for sitting in a hotel, the living room, a bar (not that I’d ever do that!) or wherever and surfing the net and emailing, you can’t beat it - and that includes the other tablets I’ve tried; the iPad’s clearly the best.

One bonus I discovered is that airport security doesn’t insist on unpacking the thing; I can leave it right in my carry-on stuff. That’s a nice, though admittedly minor, convenience.

Others’ mileage may vary, of course!

Cheers,
Jim


25 posted on 03/05/2012 8:08:14 AM PST by gymbeau (Rush is right! Let's defend him. We're all Breitbart now!)
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To: gymbeau

I think the bottom line is as follows:

If what you are doing is typing intensive, the pads suck. But for pretty much anything else, they are a huge boon to useability.

I will throw this out: We don’t have internet at our home any more. My computer has been off for months because of it. At our previous residence I spent a huge amount of time on the computer. Take away the web, and it’s really not all that useful.


26 posted on 03/05/2012 8:18:19 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf

It all comes down to cost-benefit for me. I got a used iPad 1 for $350 from ebay shortly after the iPad 2 came out. The guy I got it from admitted he paid $800 for it a few months ago but just HAD TO HAVE the new one. Now that the iPad 3 is coming out the price for 1’s might come down even more. For me, $350 was well worth it. $800? Nope. But I really do like it and use it daily.


27 posted on 03/05/2012 8:19:27 AM PST by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: jdsteel

Warning: TALKING OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF MY MOUTH ALERT!!

If we end up getting internet at home again, my wife would love a pad for recipes, internet surfing, facebooking, etc. The recipe thing is especially intriguing. It just sets on the counter and you can either read the recipe while you whip things up, or even watch youtube videos of the “expert” doing it.


28 posted on 03/05/2012 8:34:25 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: dangerdoc

I disagree, doc. If nothing else, it will push users to Linux. However, keep in mind, there are still an enormous number of users who are clinging to XP and it’s EOL as far as MS is concerned. It’ll be 10-15 years before Win7 is scrapped, IMO. I’m already using Linux for close to half of my day. I’m FReeping on Linux. The only thing I need Windows to do is play my video games.

And Apple isn’t going to continue to grow at the rates they have previously. People are seeing, as shown in the article, that Apple is just a different brand and just as ugly under the hood. Jobs was a marketing genius, not a product genius. Apple’s hardware is the same as most PC hardware and runs a form of UX OS. Linux is free and runs on the PCs I already have. No need to spend $2K+ for a new platform.


29 posted on 03/05/2012 10:33:12 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: cuban leaf

I got an iPad for free last year, it was nice but I wanted a keyboard. I gave it to my kids and bought an Asus Transformer. It runs 14 hours off battery, has a detachable keyboard which I rarely remove because I use the keyboard as a stand.

I really like it but I still use my notebook a lot because sometimes I need a bigger keyboard and industrial strength CPU and OS.

I received a free iPad 2 this year but returned it and bought a camera for my wife.


30 posted on 03/05/2012 10:34:18 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: rarestia
Your average everyday user is comfortable with a MaK setup. Touchscreen monitors are too expensive for universal adoption.

The problem isn't the cost. It's that who wants to be using a touch screen unless on a small, portable device. On a desktop, you want a real keyboard and a mouse and / or touchpad.

And if you're going to be using your smartphone at a desk to do anything beyond yakking, this is more like how you want to be using it:


31 posted on 03/05/2012 10:45:22 AM PST by cynwoody
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To: cuban leaf
If what you are doing is typing intensive, the pads suck. But for pretty much anything else, they are a huge boon to useability.

The use case is, you want a really portable computer, and you are going to be primarily surfing and reading, with typing limited to the occasional search engine string or, at most, short email.

32 posted on 03/05/2012 10:55:40 AM PST by cynwoody
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To: cynwoody

I especially liked your qualifying email with the word “short”.

This posting stuff would drive me nutz on a pad.


33 posted on 03/05/2012 10:58:23 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf

Yep, consider it. My wife has a Galaxy tab, and while it is OK, I prefer the iPad. Garage band on a laptop is a pretty worthless thing, in my opinion. But, on an iPad (for $4.99) with instruments that can be played with the touch screen, it suddenly becomes a good tool to rough out tunes. Just sayin’....


34 posted on 03/05/2012 3:20:52 PM PST by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: SmokingJoe

Enderle is a complete moron. I’m no fan of Apple but the Windows 8 Consumer Preview is the worst OS I’ve ever used.

My staff and I have spent the last couple days alternately laughing and being terrified of what a POS it is. It’s worse than Vista.

And I had it running on a netbook next to my Transformer Prime, yesterday, and realized it’s actually Android ICS ported to a PC....literally. It looks like MS stole Google’s interface.

It’s going to be a disaster if they don’t start fixing it, immediately.


35 posted on 03/07/2012 4:28:00 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny (Burning the Quran is a waste of perfectly good fire.)
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To: SmokingJoe

Windows 7 left OSX in the dust. If It weren’t for Apple’s hip gay urban core buyers, sales would plummet. iPad mania is pathetic, a fad, a testimony to marketing which is Apple’s only strong point

Windows 8 will widen the lead. Good ol American competition. Microsoft is a giant that has been woken up and will trounce Apple. Jobs died in time to miss this.


36 posted on 03/07/2012 4:34:00 AM PST by dennisw (A nation of sheep breeds a government of Democrat wolves!)
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To: rarestia
Touchscreen monitors are too expensive for universal adoption.

Meh, price is coming down and will continue to do so. Especially if it becomes more widespread. (A catch-22, but that's all of technology.)

Price isn't the problem, it's the form factor. It's simply not ergonomic to use a touchscreen at something approaching a perpendicular angle. There would have o be a radical form factor redesign to make touchscreen at a desktop environment work well.

37 posted on 03/07/2012 4:43:17 AM PST by kevkrom (Note to self: proofread, then post. It's better that way.)
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To: dennisw

I use 7 and OSX and they have pretty similar useability overall. In hardware my netbook was 1/3 the price of my macbook air, but the SSD and power saving features in the air are exemplary. The differences come in what you are trying to accomplish. Large doc creation needs Word, Pages is not sufficient. In light graphics and web site development the Air has a small advantage in productivity. For casual use and web surfing, especially to sites with dubious content, Mac’s OS and browser offer superior safety with add-ons like click-to-flash. For software development, which is my job, I actually prefer Windows minus the cumbersome crutch of Visual Studio. Both Microsoft’s automatically generated code and Apple’s large code base and environment distract from the real task of programming which is writing your own code. The flexibility of hitting Win7 at a variety of API levels including good old win32 is what convinces me that Windows will keep winning for now.


38 posted on 03/07/2012 4:58:39 AM PST by palmer (Before reading this post, please send me $2.50)
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To: dennisw
Windows 7 left OSX in the dust.

I have both, and would strongly disagree. Windows 7 is a solid OS, but I much prefer using OS X on a daily basis (as both a user and as the family's admin). If it wasn't for all the kids' software that only runs on Windows, I probably wouldn't even have the Win 7 machine.

39 posted on 03/07/2012 5:10:04 AM PST by kevkrom (Note to self: proofread, then post. It's better that way.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

see post #6 running on a netbook next to my Transformer Prime, yesterday, and realized it’s actually Android ICS ported to a PC....literally. It looks like MS stole Google’s interface.”

What are you talking about? I’m posting from an ICS device right now. Stock ICS interface is a lot closer to Win 7 than Win 8 and without the ugly tiles.


40 posted on 03/07/2012 5:17:11 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: dangerdoc

Have you run 8? When you have them side by side, you can see how very much the same they are.

When you scroll the tiles, the background image moves a tiny bit in the direction you’re scrolling - exactly like ICS. When you hit the Applications button, they both bring up the same checkerboard of icons - only 8 scrolls and ICS goes screen-to-screen. When you click the running apps button, they both bring up the same list of running apps in thumbnail form on the left side of the screen.

The home screens do look different - because of the tiles - but their functionality is almost identical. MS totally ripped Google off....or there’s an incredible coincidence.

Only ICS is better thought-out and more usable.


41 posted on 03/07/2012 7:11:23 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny (Burning the Quran is a waste of perfectly good fire.)
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To: cuban leaf

Yes, iPad is great for recipes. Small size, easy to grab & move, and minimal worries about stuff (liquids, powders) getting into it and causing damage. I’m typing this now on my iPad after the boy smeared cream of wheat on it, and I have no worries that a damp cloth will tidy it up; smear CoW on the laptop and someone would have a fit.


42 posted on 03/07/2012 7:31:44 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: cuban leaf

“even though it was really just a netbook without a keyboard,”

And that’s the mistake the competition and naysayers keep making. Netbooks sans keyboards have been around a long time and went nowhere. It’s not about the hardware, it’s about the hardware and software and UI and OS and delivery and walled garden and price and etc all rolled into a single out-of-the-box package. AND that it is not a “computer” (if you need one, get one, iPad isn’t it).


43 posted on 03/07/2012 7:39:10 AM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: ctdonath2

Yup. That is why my friend really didn’t like it. What he needed was a computer.


44 posted on 03/07/2012 7:45:52 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Tzfat
Metro

Metro is so "Miami Vice".

45 posted on 03/07/2012 7:47:33 AM PST by Glenn (iamtheresistance.org)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

I guess I am thinking more about the psychology of using it. I like icons and widgets and I like being able to put them where I want and develop muscle memory so I can buzz around and do multiple tasks without thinking or bumping into the OS trying to help me.

Windowed computing is coming to Android further pushing it towards a Win 7 type of operation. I don’t want Android on my main computer but I am happy with the prospect of my Asus tab operating more like a traditional windowed operating system.

I haven’t used Win 8 but watched somebody else demonstrating it for about 15 minutes, I see your point.


46 posted on 03/07/2012 8:12:26 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: rarestia
Win8 is going to be another rushed-to-market bit of trash that the public won’t glom on to.

Umm.. no. Nothing rushed about this one.

Have you seen the requirements for the OS? They’re not really even marketing it to your standard desktop user.”

It comes in two versions: Desktop/laptop, then tablets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VnsHmVs1UA

It’s completely a tablet/touchscreen OS,”

WRONG!

which I think is going to come back to haunt them much like Windows CE did.”

Drawing wrong conclusions from wrong premises.

47 posted on 03/14/2012 4:59:14 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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