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An Inexpensive Solution for Quickly Launching Military Satellites Into Space
National Defense Magazine ^ | 3/1/2012 | William I. Oberholtzer

Posted on 03/06/2012 6:57:53 PM PST by U-238

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To: gaijin

Yes. The charge was illegal arms dealing to South Africa. Six months in prison.


41 posted on 03/06/2012 8:52:09 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

A giant slingshot could work too. /s


42 posted on 03/06/2012 10:27:59 PM PST by Crucial
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To: Steely Tom

“Base-bleed” ammunition. I remember reading about that with Israeli and South African artillery.


43 posted on 03/06/2012 10:38:44 PM PST by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: U-238
In late 1944 enough theory had been worked out to allow the Luftwaffe’s Flak Command to issue a specifications for the gun.

That's true, but the Germans also found that energizing such a gun required a huge city-scale power station and was therefore technologically unfeasible. The captured project files were sent to the Dahlgren Naval Proving Ground after the war where Navy scientists looked at the concept again in the late 1940s but confirmed the German's findings. After HARP, the ballistics scientists at Dahlgren once again reviewed electric guns in the mid-1970s but again found that the technology was not there yet.

44 posted on 03/07/2012 3:06:59 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: gaijin
Are you sure that's correct? How do you think the Excalibur round works...?

100% sure, as far as Bull's Navy projects went. In the early 1970s, he bombarded (no pun intended) the Navy with unsolicited proposals for his gun-launched satellites, and because he had a few congressional connections, the admirals humored him. During the tests at Dahlgren, the electronics in the projectiles failed most of the time due to spikes of up to 70 G's during firing. The Navy, which was developing Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles at the time, politely declined to pursue Bull's concept. He got mad and actually sued the Navy, but ended up losing. So he was pissed off at Uncle Sam well before Carter and the State Department screwed him.

It all discussed in this book:

The Sound of Freedom: Naval Weapons Technology at Dahlgren, Virginia, 1918-2006

I can't speak about the electronics of today, but the electronics of a guided-projectile are probably far more robust than those of an actual satellite, which the author of this piece is arguing for.

45 posted on 03/07/2012 3:16:53 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: U-238
The Navy did not invest in it because they were short sighted and did not think about the applications.

No, the Navy didn't invest in it because it didn't work. And there's an enormous difference between satellites (often weighing tons) and guided projectiles (weighing only a few pounds). The physics just do not work.

46 posted on 03/07/2012 3:19:57 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: U-238
I had to see what this gun looked like and I stumbled across this image:


47 posted on 03/07/2012 3:23:16 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Travis McGee; All
Bull was justifiably bitter toward the USA after being betrayed and jailed. He was working with the RSA military to develop new advanced field arty, with what he believed was “wink and nod” permission. This was the Cold War era, and even under apartheid sanctions, we did not want the communists taking over central africa.

That is my read on it as well. I also believe that NASA was gunning for him because they thought that gun launched satellites were a threat to their rocket program.

The way Bull was treated was one of the most disgusting abuses of power that I found in my career. Bull was a certifiable genius. He used his genius to further the technological and military advancement of the United States, and was betrayed for that effort.

48 posted on 03/07/2012 6:02:32 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Timber Rattler; All
"No, the Navy didn't invest in it because it didn't work. And there's an enormous difference between satellites (often weighing tons) and guided projectiles (weighing only a few pounds). The physics just do not work."

You do not need to shoot complex communications satellites into orbit with a gun to save very large amounts of money and gain very significant capabilities by sending things to orbit with gun launched projectiles.

Just the ability to send water, fuel, building materials and food into orbit at a tiny fraction of the cost per pound of rocket delivered materials would be a game changing advantage.

49 posted on 03/07/2012 6:09:03 AM PST by marktwain
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To: Timber Rattler
extremely high G-forces

A much longer rail gun would have much lower G-forces. Possibly a 100 mile long horizontal rail gun could do the job. Electricity is cheap and highly controllable.

50 posted on 03/07/2012 6:31:11 AM PST by Reeses
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To: marktwain

I mainly blame the elite snotty liberals in the State Dept for screwing him, instead of “failing to notice” the CIA’s wink/nod acceptance of his overseas military work with the RSA.

To the libs at State, working with the RSA was a mortal sin, despite the Cold War battles raging in southern Africa.

Bull should have been given great respect and a high-paying position in the USA all of his life, to keep his amazing brain power working for us, instead of forcing him to grub around the world for a paycheck.

Typical short-sightedness by Uncle Sap.


51 posted on 03/07/2012 6:31:23 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Reeses
Possibly a 100 mile long horizontal rail gun could do the job.

And this is feasible for shooting stuff into orbit, how?

52 posted on 03/07/2012 6:36:26 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Timber Rattler
The electronics can't stand the extremely high G-forces associated with gun-based launches.

These people: http://www.punkinchunkin.com/ address a similar problem. A significant goal is to not turn the projectile into sauce upon launch.

53 posted on 03/07/2012 6:52:55 AM PST by Western Phil
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To: Timber Rattler
And this is feasible for shooting stuff into orbit, how?

Because 1) the Earth curves away, and 2) to orbit, an object needs to be moving fairly horizontal to the Earth's surface. Sending an unpowered object mostly straight up will result in it coming right back down.

54 posted on 03/07/2012 6:58:01 AM PST by Reeses
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To: U-238
At the present time the Army has developed the “Excalibur” a 155mm projectile that is steerable. At ignition it produces 16,000 G's. In order to launch a projectile into space would require much higher G forces solely because of the size and the amount of energy needed to send it into space.
Using rockets as we presently doing does not create those initial G forces.
We can only hope that our technology can overcome this one problem.
My problem, is will Obama give this technology to China and Russia?
55 posted on 03/07/2012 10:50:18 AM PST by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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To: Timber Rattler

Thanks for the additional information. I did not know that

:)


56 posted on 03/07/2012 2:27:01 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

Wasn’t this looked at years (decades?) ago? They quickly realized the atmosphere is much too dense to shoot a satellite into orbit from land near sea level. But even at 16,000 feet altitude on the equator in the Andes Mountains, there was still no way to do it. Too much friction passing through the atmosphere, which fouled the necessarily precise trajectory, the blast required to gain orbit would be too much for a satellite to absorb and still be a functioning, piece of hardware, etc.

That’s about what I remember reading. Anyway, it’s not being done, so that pretty much means it’s not feasible.


57 posted on 03/07/2012 2:40:37 PM PST by citizen (The Dims will all unite for Zero. We must soon unite behind our challenger and back him to victory!)
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To: Doc91678

Maybe Russia and China have this technology already. After Gearld Bull’s death and the folding of SRC those scientists and engineers had to go somwhere.They also had affiliated companies that included SRCQ (SRC Quebec), SRCI, Paragon, PRB (Belgian corporation), and SRCB (SRC Belgium).


58 posted on 03/07/2012 2:42:47 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

The other thing was the projectile had to be fired not up in the air at a steep angle but on much more of a flat trajectory, though slightly elevated, so that it would end up circling the earth like a satellite would. This flat trajectory only magnified the problems getting through the atmosphere and made the required blast a lot more bigger.


59 posted on 03/07/2012 3:03:44 PM PST by citizen (The Dims will all unite for Zero. We must soon unite behind our challenger and back him to victory!)
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To: U-238

Good Point. You may be right,


60 posted on 03/08/2012 9:06:33 AM PST by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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