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Bunker Mentality: The booming business of Doomsday
FOX News ^ | 3/7/12 | Perry Chiaramonte

Posted on 03/07/2012 5:45:27 PM PST by Kartographer

From the society’s wealthiest and most powerful class to rural off-the-grid types, people are preparing for the worst, and sparing no expense on elaborate underground shelters, buying years’ worth of non-perishable foods and stockpiling fuel and ammunition. Some have embraced the term “preppers,” although precisely what they are preparing for varies.

“We realized that we were totally unprepared should something happen,” said Jack Jobe, who was prompted to prep for a natural disaster after the 2010 earthquake in Haiti. Jobe, who will be featured on an upcoming episode of the NatGeo’s “Doomsday Preppers,” has invested about $3,000 in a safe room in the cellar of his family’s Colorado home. The basement bunker has reinforced steel doors, along with two 55-gallon drums of water, a four-month supply of food and a cache of guns and ammunition. “Fleeing won’t be an option,” Jobe told FoxNews.com. “We are ready to survive in place.”

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: armageddon; beprepared; doomsday; getreadyhereitcomes; naturaldisaster; preparedness; preparenow; prepperping; preppers; selfreliance; shtf; survivalping
More and more Prepping is going mainstream.
1 posted on 03/07/2012 5:45:37 PM PST by Kartographer
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!


2 posted on 03/07/2012 5:46:55 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

If the present spending continues I don’t see how we can avoid a collapse like that of Argentina ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yerKMQc7-w&feature=grec_index )but on a global scale.

But the market is up you say, yeah it’s up using billions in ‘printed’ money in the hands of corrupted bankers, investors and their cronies. The world is now flooded with fake and faux money. The game is so rigged and now even the ‘house’ is starting to lose.

When the whole thing tanks as it will what do you think the entiled class will do when they can’t get their cell phones, their food stamps and EBT cards, rent vouchers and so forth.

What we will see is a much more violent version of Argentina, (checkout what is going on in Greece).

American has an even a larger entitlement minded population and much more violent and armed onen than Argentina or Greece.

I see many many small business wiped out by flash mob looting, and see rape, robbery and murder for murder sake. Many of these ‘yutes’ will think no more about killing you than most people think about stepping on a roach. That will be the test of many. Most preppers I know are Christian people and they will hesitate to do what they might have to do to stop the ‘yutes’. On the other hand the ‘yutes’ won’t think twice nor lose a minute of sleep, in fact they will smile and laugh about it.

Think of this quote which is one of my favorites:

“Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8)” (1998)
Quark: Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes.

On top of all who knows how many saboteurs (Islamic, Chinese etc) and sleepers have crossed our borders and are now just waiting to cause havoc.

For those who are just starting or are old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpfull. You can download it at:

http://tomeaker.com/kart/Preparedness1j.pdf

NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!

For those of you who haven’t started already it’s time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, a extra couple changes of oil and filters for your car, tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.

As the LDS say “When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

Or as the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
NIV Proverbs 22:3

Lastly this for the doubters and the scoffers.

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger.

Underestimation can be fatal.”


3 posted on 03/07/2012 5:47:40 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Fortune Favors the Prepared Mind.


4 posted on 03/07/2012 5:58:01 PM PST by U-238
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To: Kartographer
I saw a show recently, or rather part of it. Either the "History Channel" or "Discovery" Most people were dead and it showed the survivors and the pillagers and rioters. Interestingly, I didn't see one single "person of color" portrayed among the looters and pillagers.
5 posted on 03/07/2012 6:03:20 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: Kartographer

While you can go overboard doing this, I don’t see this as unhealthy. In fact, this is a wave of personal stimulous spending, as people are buying a couple of years of food today. Who else is stimulating the economy?


6 posted on 03/07/2012 6:07:08 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: Kartographer

A very interesting read.

Perhaps one of the best bits of advice outside the realm of what to stockpile is the post-SHTF cultural advice to “be uninteresting.”

Don’t be THAT guy who’s all tactical and clean and visible. Be just as scruffy and rough as the rest. Don’t draw covetous attention in a time of extreme want. sound advice.


7 posted on 03/07/2012 6:12:15 PM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: Graybeard58
Sounds like “After Armageddon”. A global flu pandemic along the lines of the 1918 flu pandemic takes down society.

On a side note.
http://www.recombinomics.com/News/03061201/Flu_Calvert_MD.html

8 posted on 03/07/2012 6:14:51 PM PST by Polynikes (Hakkaa Palle)
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To: Blueflag

And if everyone else is lined up for cheese and water, *consider* joining them.


9 posted on 03/07/2012 6:19:39 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Kartographer

http://www.ki4u.com/survive/11sts_23a.gif

The Frugal Bomb Shelter


10 posted on 03/07/2012 6:22:48 PM PST by U-238
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To: Vince Ferrer
If everything, or virtually everything is dual use, you waste virtually nothing. If you weekly prepper-spend the equivalent of one family dinner out a week on ‘prepping’ you accumulate the right stuff very quickly. Priorities ...

First, strategically, you have to decide to survive in place or bug out. Where we live, (suburban Atlanta) staying means dying. We could stockpile enough, but we are in range of the Zombies. It would be a matter of a few days before we and our neighbors are overrun. We have some very nice Mormon neighbors who tried to be discrete as they remodeled their basement for obvious purposes, but they are gentle people who stand no chance of ‘standing their ground.’

If you think you can defend your ‘castle’ read Holding Your Ground: Preparing for Defense if it All Falls Apart by Joe Nobody [ Amazon ] That book as well as the e-book “Lights Out” by David Crawford convinced me of the folly of trying to survive in suburbia. It is folly.

So our plan is to bug out. And that has its own issues. We have a good location, but it makes rotating stockpiles difficult due to distance. There's always issues.

Plus I travel a lot, and I HAVE to have my wife and family committed to action even if I am a thousand miles away. (reference 77 Days in September by Ray Gorham). I may not be able to communicate, and I HAVE to ‘know’ they are OK and on the move. Mission first.

sigh There are few GOOD scenarios.

11 posted on 03/07/2012 6:32:49 PM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: DuncanWaring

No city can feed its own people. How’d the water and cheese get there?

(but I get your point).


12 posted on 03/07/2012 6:51:31 PM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: Blueflag

” No city can feed its own people. How’d the water and cheese get there? “

Obama’s stash, of course... ;)


13 posted on 03/07/2012 6:56:44 PM PST by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: Kartographer

Please add me to the Preppers’ Ping List. I don’t post a lot but read just about every thread I see on the subject.

Thanks!


14 posted on 03/07/2012 6:57:02 PM PST by creeping death
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To: Kartographer

Same here, please add me to your ping list. THanks.


15 posted on 03/07/2012 7:00:11 PM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: Blueflag

The worst place to be is on the road. So if you can’t get out early you are most likely better off at home.


16 posted on 03/07/2012 7:05:18 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver; Kartographer

” So if you can’t get out early you are most likely better off at home. “

One of Kartographer’s favorite quotes —

“When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

I implemented my bug-out plan when I took early retirement (health reasons) to a tiny, remote hamlet in the SW wilderness...


17 posted on 03/07/2012 7:13:31 PM PST by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: Kartographer

In Luke 19:13, Jesus tells us to “...OCCUPY till I come.”

We’re just following the orders of The Conquering Hero.


18 posted on 03/07/2012 7:22:17 PM PST by bimboeruption (Clinging to my Bible and my HK.)
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To: Polynikes

I know someone who lives there. We heard about this from him yesterday - scary stuff.


19 posted on 03/07/2012 7:30:28 PM PST by Ladysforest
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To: Kartographer
Some of these people are real total nutjobs (poles reversal?), but none of my business.
When they start demanding funding from federal taxes, I will start freaking out.
20 posted on 03/07/2012 8:02:40 PM PST by Publius6961 (“It’s easy to make phony promises you can’t keep.” - Obama, Feb23, 2012)
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To: Publius6961

The irony of most preps - preparing for pole reversals is similar to an EMP strike or solar flares - actions taken assuming grid down and high tech lost. Prepping for Peak Oil is not unlike hyperinflation - world becomes local and fuel too costly to be reliable. Prepping for a pandemic a la “Rainbow 6” by Tom Clancy or super-flu is the same, and most of that still works out if there’s a hurricane or all the kids get sick with the same bug but not all at once.


21 posted on 03/07/2012 8:16:37 PM PST by tbw2
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To: Graybeard58

Probably a consequence of a lot of cable shows being shot in Canada. Same thing was true of Sci-Fi shows and movies, having to go out of their way to have a token black or brown person.


22 posted on 03/07/2012 9:03:11 PM PST by tbw2
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To: Graybeard58
I saw a show recently, or rather part of it. Either the "History Channel" or "Discovery" Most people were dead and it showed the survivors and the pillagers and rioters. Interestingly, I didn't see one single "person of color" portrayed among the looters and pillagers.

Well, this is fiction, and where movies are made PC rules. The truly uncomfortable thing for me is that in the last ten years or so every disaster or world threatening movie has a president, all generals and critical scientists in the story from a cultural group that comprises 15 percent of the population, but perhaps 1% of the academic, professional achievers and leaders.

In the real world profiling during serious crises will be not only acceptable but essential for survival. You can be PC or survive. Can't do both.

The scam artists are out in force with this survivalist stuff. Just watched a survivalist episode on the Discovery channel which was painful to watch. Some poor sap was spending almost half a million$ for a prefab steel-frame bunker where the fabricator had his teenage son with serious attitude deficit doing the welding and abusing the other workers, and the "managers" of this serious project seem to be overqualified in certain areas, and seriously deficient in others. NONE seem to be competent in structural design, the essentials of soil engineering and drainage, concrete construction where necessary (as opposed to concrete blocks) and common sense incidentals.

Example, at another project, a new generator was installed in a concrete block box which was buried with enough of it above grade to allow criminals to destroy the door and steal the generator. The box was probably not prepared properly to prevent water infiltration. To add stupidity to gross ineptness, the criminals now know the location of a supply of expensive and crucial (and expensive) survival stores and equipment that can't be moved.

No "shelter" for human habitation can be made immune to loss by a determined mob, by flooding out, digging out, burning out, blowing up or smoking/gassing out.

23 posted on 03/07/2012 11:09:29 PM PST by Publius6961 (“It’s easy to make phony promises you can’t keep.” - Obama, Feb23, 2012)
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To: Kartographer

“Fixed fortifications are a monument to man’s stupidity” - General George S. Patton

In a time and mentality of TEOTWAWKI, mobility will be a valuable asset. Why would you erase an asset by creating a bunker? All one has to do is block the air intake.

We’ve had this discussion in my family - hunker down vs. bug out. The military disadvantages of defending my particular “bunker” far outweigh the advantages of bugging out to a different locale.


24 posted on 03/08/2012 2:20:21 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: driftdiver

I agree that if you wait too long then getting on the road is pretty much certain death for anything but a well-armed and disciplined convoy. At the same time if you remain in an urban area or close in suburban area a single family in traditional housing WILL be dead/ raped/robbed in 10-30 days. A typical family home is simply indefensible and the zombies will come.

Any father who keeps his family in their suburban home is ordering his wife and children to die in place defending it. Or soon starve. IMHO.


25 posted on 03/08/2012 3:51:29 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: NTHockey

Amen. Long ago we determined that our suburban home is not the place to stay and defend in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. For lesser upheavals we could easily do 30 days at home. The issue is discerning the difference between lesser and greater scenarios. If we wait too long the danger in transit to our bug out location rises exponentially.


26 posted on 03/08/2012 4:01:20 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: NTHockey; Blueflag; Kartographer

“The military disadvantages of defending my particular “bunker” far outweigh the advantages of bugging out to a different locale.”

IMO you cannot just say any one thing is better than another as a blanket statement. There are a million variables and it depends what happens.

In some cases it will be better to be near a population center. In a localized short term disruption the population centers get aid and protection faster.

In other cases the ‘authorities’ might go farm to farm collecting hoarded food and/or people for the greater good. A few people with hunting rifles may work against a small disorganized group but doesn’t have a chance against an organized well trained military detachment.

Its impossible to be “mobile” for an extended period of time in a mad max scenerio. Simply too hard to obtain the resources to survive and defend against attack.

IMO a bunker has its uses but people should be prepared to relocate. In either case there are events beyond your control which may kill you regardless of which decisions you make.


27 posted on 03/08/2012 4:31:09 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

There are certain emergencies that would also preclude bugging in -

chemical release, nuclear fallout, earthquake, etc.


28 posted on 03/08/2012 5:10:30 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

Absolutely, I did a basic risk management process for my planning. Identified the risks, tried to quantify probability, timeframes, and ways to mitigate the risk.

Of course I don’t have the resources to do much about it, but at least I have a plan for each of the possibilities.


29 posted on 03/08/2012 5:13:55 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

There’s also the inverse relationship between the “widespreadedness” of a disaster and its likelihood.

In the extreme:
You’re more likely to personally experience a jobloss or debilitating accident
than the earth is to be hit by an asteroid.


30 posted on 03/08/2012 5:23:44 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Kartographer

Had my bank account hacked two days ago.

While I was at my bank closing the account and opening a new one, I chatted with the bank VP. The subject of street crime came up.

She said, “We have police officers and constables who provide security for our bank. They tell me that there is an explosion of street crime in the city, but the news media is covering it up.”

Interesting data point. We are fast becoming Argentina.


31 posted on 03/08/2012 5:56:45 AM PST by darth
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To: Blueflag
. A typical family home is simply indefensible and the zombies will come. Any father who keeps his family in their suburban home is ordering his wife and children to die in place defending it. Or soon starve. IMHO.

How did you determine this?

I must confess, this statement reminded me of Michael Crichton's famous evaluation of the Drake Equation: what use is an equation whose variables are totally unknown, and can be anything from zero to infinity?

32 posted on 03/08/2012 5:59:26 AM PST by papertyger
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To: U-238

Hey, don’t laugh. That would be me. I’ve wanted a tornado shelter for years but between having no money and the water level too high to dig down, well, it’s not happening. Besides, with my luck, the house would fall on both the vent pipe and the escape hatch.


33 posted on 03/08/2012 7:23:53 AM PST by bgill (Romney & Obama are both ineligible. A non-NBC GOP prez shuts down all ?s on Obama's admin)
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To: Vince Ferrer
While you can go overboard doing this, I don’t see this as unhealthy.

Actually, given the way the world is moving (and inflation), I'm starting to wonder if one could go overboard on this. I know I've done a lot, and yet not nearly enough.

34 posted on 03/08/2012 1:00:17 PM PST by The Duke
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To: papertyger

This was not an off-the-cuff remark. It was a carefully considered statement based on a good deal of personal experience, book study, as well as interviewing a USMC officer.

HEre’s why I have reached the conclusion that a typical suburban house in indefensible. (I challenge you to describe how you and your family in your suburban frame dwelling could survive an attack from armed zombies.)

We will bug out because to stay in our home is to invite a cruel death for my family.

Typical household construction provides inadequate ballistic protection. In other words, you might have concealment, but you don’t have cover. A .45 ACP will pass right through a frame house. A high-powered rifle round will penetrate the brick facia. NET: your house is NOT protection from gunfire unless you build berms or add sandbags.

a family does not have enough people to stand guard 24 X 7 X 360 degrees.

a typical family does not have enough people with the right mindset and training to stand guard and repel an attacking force.

There is little chance of providing overwatch.

Visible defenses will attract unwelcome attention.

Visible life-sustaining activities will attract unwelcome attention; such a cooking smoke, smell of hot food, barking dogs, generators running, light leaks.

a typical family cannot cover and defend muitple points of ingress/ attack.

a typical family home is ready-made to be burned down by attackers.

a wounded family member will extraordinarily adversely affect the combat effectiveness of the family as a fighting force. If your spouse takes a round, and is screaming in pain from a gut shot, will YOU keep fighting?

a typical family under attack in their home has little chance of retreating to a rally point and living to fight another day - no mobility.

a typical family cannot hold off a low intensity siege — you cannot maintain an operational tempo.

a typical family cannot maintain a perimeter and a layered defense.

NET: a typical family in their home lacks the infrastructure, training and numbers to defend a fixed location from determined attackers, espeically attackers who are desperate and believe you have what they want — ammo, guns, food and women.


35 posted on 03/08/2012 3:12:01 PM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: Blueflag

You can double down to your heart’s content.

Attempting to give an evaluation when you don’t know the quantity and quality of attackers, nor defenders, is what we in the el toro poopu detection community know as a “guess.”

You want to “bug out?” Fine. But insisting that abandoning all the resources you can’t carry with you, as a matter of course, is just asinine.


36 posted on 03/09/2012 3:35:36 AM PST by papertyger
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To: papertyger

You are welcome to have a different opinion. FReerepublic is about that.

My concern for your position is that *IF* you live in a typical subrban setting, in a typical American stick-built house, etc etc., then you need to think this through better if the nation degrades to a SHTF scenario.

Indeed neither of us ‘knows’ our enemy. I am concerned that you have underestimated your potential if not likely enemies.

Instead of just repeating your disagreement with our plans, I encourage you to evaluate yours.

As a quantitative and qualitative guide to assessing your ability to defend your home, I suggest “Holding Your Ground” by Joe Nobody. It’s on Amazon and Kindle. This book helped us confirm, using sensible rationale and a good ‘spreadsheet’ model, for us, (maybe not you) what we had already leaned heavily towards: that the best place to be in a full SHTF situation is at our place bordering the Nantalhala national forest in NC. We have that option. We can pre-stage items there. *THAT* property *IS* remote, we can monitor ingress, easily situate for overwatch, has its own water, REQUIRES 4-wheel drive to access (or approach on foot or horseback) etc etc etc. It is FAR superior to our ‘typical five-four-and-a-door’ subrban home outside Atlanta.

Seriously, can you confidently and sufficiently address what it takes to SUCCESSFULLY defend your home and SUSTAIN that defense **IF** you need to?

If you can honestly say yes to the queries below, then go for it. We **cannot** so we have a bug out plan.

Does your home offer cover, concealment and ballistic protection.

Do you have enough people to stand guard 24 X 7 X 360 degrees.

Will you have enough people with the right mindset and training to stand guard and repel an attacking force.

Can you prepare and post overwatch.

Can you get water and prepare meals without venturing out for several days

Can youcover and defend muitple points of ingress/ attack.

Can you prevent your ‘castle’ from being burned down by attackers.

IF you or a family member is wounded during an attack, will YOU or they keep fighting?

Do you have a realistic chance of retreating to a rally point and living to fight another day.

Can you maintain an operational tempo in the face of even a low intensity siege

Can you maintain a perimeter and a layered defense.

***IF** it all falls apart, we will all have to live or die based on plans we execute now.

NET: This is our opinion, and our rationale. You need not share it, as your situation may be fundamentally different. If however you are a typical suburban family, then I strongly encourage you to seriously consider contingency plans that include “bug out”.

Have a great Friday.


37 posted on 03/09/2012 6:15:06 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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