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3 linked to Tucson man killed in SWAT raid arrested
Arizona Star ^ | 5-8-2012 | Veronica Cruz

Posted on 03/09/2012 4:50:46 AM PST by willamedwardwallace

Three people connected to Jose Guerena, the man shot and killed during a SWAT raid in May 2011, were arrested on drug and money laundering charges Thursday morning.

(Excerpt) Read more at azstarnet.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: marine; police; swat; tucson
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To: willamedwardwallace

Dry up sonny. Go back downstairs to mommie’s basement and play with one of your kiddie games and quit trying to interact with adults here on FR.


151 posted on 03/09/2012 10:51:40 AM PST by bobby.223 (Retired up in the snowy mountains of the American Redoubt and it doesn't get any better than that!)
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To: Admin Moderator
Wrong on all counts - again

Aw heck. Thought I nailed a retread.

Sorry.

152 posted on 03/09/2012 10:51:54 AM PST by Lazamataz (I'm a slut.)
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To: Lazamataz

You need some re-programming. Your outfit isn’t slutty enough. :p


153 posted on 03/09/2012 10:53:37 AM PST by Politicalmom (Lazamataz for president!! NO MORE RINOS!!)
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To: Ratman83

If the federal government is letting illegal aliens gain citizenship by serving in our military and then letting them use their learned skills to do home invasions all over Arizona, what kind of training to you think local cops should receive since they are the only authority trying to handle the problem?

How many shots would you fire if you were the cop trying to serve a warrant on a marine with a gun who lives in a world where he expects other drug runners to do a home invasions on him, just like he does on others?

I’d like to meet the cop who would volunteer to risk his life to politely knock on the door to serve that warrant.


154 posted on 03/09/2012 10:54:23 AM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna
No more so than you have proof he stole it. And since it was not the purpose of the bogus warrant it is not part of the case. This was just more of cops trying to cover their butts. This was sorry despicable and criminal cop work that was avoidable and should never have taken place, and those involved need to be charged.
155 posted on 03/09/2012 10:55:19 AM PST by org.whodat
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To: Lazamataz

I don’t understand why you went after him. It was his thread - no one was forced to read it. He wasn’t hijacking a thread.

You know, that’s what they are trying to do to Rush...I’m just saying.


156 posted on 03/09/2012 10:58:51 AM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna
I don’t understand why you went after him.

Cuz it was more like he was taunting everyone, right from the very first comment. You came on the thread, and you really weren't taunting, you were just in disagreement.

Taunting, read: Trolling, isn't a very productive thing to do on any forum. It makes for frayed tempers and sometimes long-time, good Freepers go too far and get suspended or banned... no one wants that.... better we rid ourselves of the purposefully-provocative trolls, then the otherwise good freepers.... good freepers like YOU.

157 posted on 03/09/2012 11:02:34 AM PST by Lazamataz (I'm a slut.)
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To: Lazamataz

Well, I wish you’d clear out the sex nuts who go after us conservative women with the same effort. Those posters are an insult to good mothers.


158 posted on 03/09/2012 11:21:00 AM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: Lazamataz

By the way, I never would have seen this new information if he hadn’t posted this thread.


159 posted on 03/09/2012 11:22:29 AM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna
As far as I know Jose Guerena was a native of Tucson and not a former illegal. Please provide evidence for your statement.

where he expects other drug runners so you think he was a drug runner. Wow, you know you have more evidence to present here. Everyone I am sure is looking forward to all the evidence you have. Why have you waited so long to show everyone?

If the police where professionals they would have knocked on the door without running around the house scaring the occupants.

If I were a cop I certainly would not be around the bozos in that outfit. Yes I personnaly know a cop who has politely knocked on the door to serve that warrant.

IMHO these people were not cops they were murders. Uncontrolled fire and failure to allow treatment to their victim. They are scum.

160 posted on 03/09/2012 11:23:07 AM PST by Ratman83
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To: org.whodat

So you say. Where’s your proof? Why do you believe the cops are lying? All you have is hatred for cops.


161 posted on 03/09/2012 11:37:39 AM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna

Two of my brothers were cops, dang. You are just trying to justify murder after the fact.


162 posted on 03/09/2012 11:46:26 AM PST by org.whodat
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To: Ratman83

I don’t know if he was naturalized:

Jose Guerena
Birth:
Nov. 23, 1984
Nogales
Sonora, Mexico
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSob=c&GSlh=1&GRid=69824744


163 posted on 03/09/2012 11:47:24 AM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: org.whodat

Provide some evidence to support your opinion. All you have is emotion.


164 posted on 03/09/2012 11:49:00 AM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna

That was an EPIC bootlick, donna! :-)


165 posted on 03/09/2012 11:51:01 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: donna
Well, I wish you’d clear out the sex nuts

Must.....

Not.....

Comment.....

Must.....

Not.....

Comment.....

166 posted on 03/09/2012 11:51:13 AM PST by Lazamataz (I'm a slut.)
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To: willamedwardwallace; Lazamataz
So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? You are a reasonable person most of the time from what I see, why retreat to the troll meme?

Because you're a troll. :-)

167 posted on 03/09/2012 11:53:48 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: donna
You are the one on the emotion trail, they kicked the door down and they machine guned him to death, no lawful reason.
168 posted on 03/09/2012 11:53:51 AM PST by org.whodat
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To: donna

Thank you for the info on his place of birth. But he could still have been legal resident or naturalized. I do not like to jump to guilt to quickly.


169 posted on 03/09/2012 11:56:03 AM PST by Ratman83
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To: donna
Tucson Police say a gun found in Guerena’s house had been stolen in a burglary at a home in the 4300 Block of East Holmes three years ago.

OK, I'll give you that the following is a defense of Guerena, but I'll ask it anyway:

Did Guerena steal the gun found in his home?

Furthermore, can the police prove the provenance of the gun? They themselves have access to stolen weapons, if I recall correctly.

170 posted on 03/09/2012 12:01:05 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Lazamataz

I admire your manly restraint. I think I’m in love!


171 posted on 03/09/2012 12:02:15 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna

LOL!


172 posted on 03/09/2012 12:05:58 PM PST by Lazamataz (I'm a slut.)
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To: kiryandil; Ratman83

I can’t post from this site. Take the time to read the details-such as he had a Border Patrol hat under his bed:

Man killed by SWAT tied to multiple inquiries
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/06/15/20110615guerena0615.html


173 posted on 03/09/2012 12:06:27 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: willamedwardwallace
It’s easy to say, “they should arrest him outside the house.” However, you never know if a person you try to arrest outside a house is going to shoot it out, then you have a shoot out in an open environment where bystanders can get hurt.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You're a freaking cop! Real lame, kettenhunde.

If he's REALLY dangerous, he'll run out of ammo quicker outside his house.

The bystanders and the cops are usually shot by the cops:

Pictured: The dramatic moment crazed gunman is taken down by armed cops after courthouse shootout that left a deputy and a bystander wounded

174 posted on 03/09/2012 12:06:42 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: org.whodat

Post 173 is for you, too.


175 posted on 03/09/2012 12:08:30 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna
Take the time to read the details-such as he had a Border Patrol hat under his bed.

donna, I have a Border Patrol hat, and I don't live anywhere near a border. Am I guilty of something?

176 posted on 03/09/2012 12:09:43 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil

Did you read the article or not?

Watch this:
Gangland - Basic Training (Gangs in the military)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDdZZizeWdQ

If you just want drugs legalized, say so, and I can’t stop wasting my time.


177 posted on 03/09/2012 12:17:03 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna

http://www.bing.com/search?q=us+border+patrol+hats+sale&qs=AS&form=QBLH&pq=us+border+patrol+hats&sc=4-21&sp=2&sk=AS1


178 posted on 03/09/2012 12:17:31 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: donna
Do you have proof that he bought the stolen gun?

donna, WTH are you talking about? Now he's got to "prove" that he bought the stolen gun?

What is this, Stalin's Russia?

I thought they had to arrest him and charge with stealing a gun, but it appears they skipped all that.

Now we're down to spending a pile of taxpayer money to find laws that he broke, AFTER the fact.

As I posted earlier, GREAT way of dealing with those bothersome ex-post-facto laws - just have enough laws in place so that the peasant is guilty of SOMETHING.

179 posted on 03/09/2012 12:18:16 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: donna
All after the fact manure, if it was not listed on the bogus warrant it has no bearing. None of the so called bogus stuff changes the fact the man was not guilty of anything. If he had broken the law and they, the jackboots in this case, had proof of this fact the man should have been arrested and had his day in court. Not slaughtered in the middle of the night with his wife and kid there. With that many cops getting their rocks off it is a wonder all three were not slaughtered.
180 posted on 03/09/2012 12:19:13 PM PST by org.whodat
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To: donna
"It is common knowledge among law enforcement that drug traffickers steal from each other while masquerading as law-enforcement officers, including SWAT units."

Sounds like he knew that he couldn't trust the police ,

181 posted on 03/09/2012 12:20:05 PM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: kiryandil

YOU said he bought the stolen gun. I’m asking YOU why YOU believe the things you say.


182 posted on 03/09/2012 12:23:21 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna
If you just want drugs legalized, say so, and I can’t stop wasting my time.

The Founders didn't intend for us to have a standing army of militarized police, armed with a blank checkbook.

I'm against these clowns cloaking themselves in righteousness while stealing my tax dollars.

183 posted on 03/09/2012 12:23:59 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: donna

You don’t seem to have much difficulty dragging up year old news stories about Jose Guerena, but you don’t know if he was a US citizen or not. He was. He served honorably in the US military. His wife became a US citizen. His children are US citizens. I saw them recently. The fatherless boys, that is. What a sad sight.


184 posted on 03/09/2012 12:25:34 PM PST by petitfour
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To: All

Good analysis of the shooting here:

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/316833.php

Sample:

“(1) Despite keeping members of Jose’s family under surveillance for many months, the police admitted in their affidavit for a search warrant that they had never seen any of them in possession of drugs, nor had they so much as seen anyone they suspected of involvement in a “mid-level drug ring” smoking a joint. The strongest “evidence” listed in the affidavit relating to Jose was, nine months earlier, he was a passenger in a truck that was carrying a cardboard box containing plastic wrap. They noted that people involved in drugs sometimes use plastic wrap. This is no evidence at all; it’s not even probable cause. People involved in the drug trade sometimes use cardboard boxes too. The police had suspicions but no probable cause and no actual evidence. None.

(2) Despite being full of factual errors and contradictions, despite listing no actual probable cause to believe that a given person had committed a specific crime and that specific evidence of such crimes could be found at a specific place as required by the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, a judge issued a warrant authorizing a massive fishing expedition.

(3) From what is currently known, it appears that the police found potential evidence of crime, which included a small, unspecified amount of marijuana, at only one of the four homes they searched on May 5. These are surprisingly unproductive results for multiple raids on those involved in a criminal enterprise of the size and scope that Sheriff Dupnik continues to claim.

(4) Police statements indicate that their surveillance of their suspects was an on-again, off-again affair, and was anything but comprehensive. In fact, Sheriff Dupnik said that they did not watch Jose Guerena’s home at all in the hours prior to serving the search warrant and killing him because they were afraid it would tip off those they were trying to catch. This is, to put it kindly, utter nonsense. Failing to watch a home about to be searched for drugs before making the search is the worst kind of incompetence. For the sake of safety alone, it is mandatory that officers know exactly what is going on at such homes. Is anyone home? If so, who? How many? Where are they? What are they doing? Is there any indication that they suspect something? Is the case blown? Are they destroying evidence? We’re not speaking of highly advanced SWAT techniques here, but of Basic Police Procedure 101. One need not be Sherlock Holmes to accomplish such a simple yet mandatory task.”


185 posted on 03/09/2012 12:27:23 PM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: donna

It’s sort of surreal to read about the area around me and to know that others think the former and current Marines who live here are drug runners and just waiting to kill someone who knocks on the door.


186 posted on 03/09/2012 12:27:48 PM PST by petitfour
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To: donna

Having a Border Patrol hat under his bed is not a crime. He had one because he tried to become a agent. They turned him down due to vision issues if IRC.


187 posted on 03/09/2012 12:27:50 PM PST by Ratman83
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To: org.whodat

Why was he in the hallway pointing a gun at the police?

Offical report:
“A close examination of the rifle revealed it appeared to have been damaged by being fired upon from such an angle that it must have been pointed toward officers.”

“The officers were mistaken in believing Mr. Guerena fired at them. However, when Mr. Guerena raised the ar-15 semi-automatic assault rifle in their direction, they needed to take immediate action to stop the deadly threat against them.”


188 posted on 03/09/2012 12:28:01 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: willamedwardwallace

>> But, but, but this family was perfect. Never a criminal offense among them. OH NOEZ JACKBOOTZ!

FU


189 posted on 03/09/2012 12:28:12 PM PST by Gene Eric (Newt/Sarah 2012)
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To: Ratman83

Give me a link to your source.


190 posted on 03/09/2012 12:28:49 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna
YOU said he bought the stolen gun. I’m asking YOU why YOU believe the things you say.

I believe that the Founding Fathers started the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thingee, as a reaction to the English usage of "guilty until proven innocent".

Did something change while I wasn't looking?

Look, donna - we just disagree, no need for a flame war. Whomping on you wouldn't be nearly as fun as gigging Eschoir, ash, or billy paul.

Let's leave at that.

191 posted on 03/09/2012 12:29:25 PM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: piroque

So, the smart and logical thing for him to do was to point a gun at cops?

Read the article. He was likely expecting an attack from rival criminals.

Man killed by SWAT tied to multiple inquiries
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/06/15/20110615guerena0615.html


192 posted on 03/09/2012 12:33:27 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna

Once again, read real slow, he was not breaking the law, the cops had no reason to be there. Officer friendly could have called him and picked him up. No problem. This started with cops kicking down the mans door, he did not call them to come out there and kick down his door. From the time the cops put on their little play military gear it was all wrong and on them, he did not start this confrontation they did. The cops did this not the dead man.


193 posted on 03/09/2012 12:41:34 PM PST by org.whodat
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To: donna

We do not sentence men to die for being ‘tied’ to multiple inquiries.

The bottom line - in the same circumstance, would an innocent man concerned with protecting his family, have been gunned down by the police?

Yes.

Was there any indication that the dead man was a serious criminal, requiring a forced entry?

No. None.

Did they even FIND anything criminal?

No. A gun stolen 3 years before wasn’t likely to be one he stole for himself.

Given that he had family members who had been killed in a home invasion, it is likely he WAS concerned with an attack by criminals. Thus, the cops should not act like criminals breaking down his door. And in fact, he had been interviewed by the police peaceably multiple times prior to the home invasion.

7” is not enough time for a homeowner - particularly one just off a night shift at work - to get out of bed, grab clothes, and get to the front door. But that was all the time Pima SWAT gave him.

BTW - with 71 shots fired at him, I could just about promise that some of the rounds would hit a leading edge of his gun. If not before he went down, afterward. Heck, lots of them went thru the rear wall of his house, and his rear wall sure wasn’t attacking anyone...

Now, want to explain why they didn’t allow paramedics to provide treatment?


194 posted on 03/09/2012 12:42:49 PM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: donna

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/11/27/swat-team-shooting-marine-jose-guerena-ortiz-provokes-rage/


195 posted on 03/09/2012 12:51:46 PM PST by Ratman83
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To: willamedwardwallace
Are you back again?

Badge-lickers never get the hint.

196 posted on 03/09/2012 12:51:57 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: Ratman83

>> If the police where professionals

These paramilitary exercises are out of control. We deserve smarter, more agile, Constitutionally driven LEOs.

There are too many dolts dangerously empowered. Only the best should be granted the responsibility to suppress, arrest, dispatch. There should be no benefits other the direct pay given for the dangerous work of enforcing the law. There should be no benefits for “putting in the time”: no pensions, no unions, no immunity, but triple the pay. $250k/year is a good starting number for an individual granted the special Constitutional powers.


197 posted on 03/09/2012 12:56:32 PM PST by Gene Eric (Newt/Sarah 2012)
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To: doorgunner69

Badge-lickers?

No decent conservative would ever use such a word.


198 posted on 03/09/2012 1:03:59 PM PST by donna (Republicans won't change their ways until conservatives draw the line.)
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To: donna

Donna that is polite to some of the things I have seen people and police called here. It is better that the boot comment.


199 posted on 03/09/2012 1:10:55 PM PST by Ratman83
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To: donna

I still must tip my hat your way. You have an unpopular opinion, at least on this thread, but your arguments are devoid of baiting and button-pushing. I like that.


200 posted on 03/09/2012 1:14:32 PM PST by Lazamataz (I'm a slut.)
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