Posted on 03/09/2012 4:50:46 AM PST by willamedwardwallace
Three people connected to Jose Guerena, the man shot and killed during a SWAT raid in May 2011, were arrested on drug and money laundering charges Thursday morning.
(Excerpt) Read more at azstarnet.com ...
Sounds like he knew that he couldn't trust the police ,
YOU said he bought the stolen gun. I’m asking YOU why YOU believe the things you say.
The Founders didn't intend for us to have a standing army of militarized police, armed with a blank checkbook.
I'm against these clowns cloaking themselves in righteousness while stealing my tax dollars.
You don’t seem to have much difficulty dragging up year old news stories about Jose Guerena, but you don’t know if he was a US citizen or not. He was. He served honorably in the US military. His wife became a US citizen. His children are US citizens. I saw them recently. The fatherless boys, that is. What a sad sight.
Good analysis of the shooting here:
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/316833.php
Sample:
“(1) Despite keeping members of Jose’s family under surveillance for many months, the police admitted in their affidavit for a search warrant that they had never seen any of them in possession of drugs, nor had they so much as seen anyone they suspected of involvement in a “mid-level drug ring” smoking a joint. The strongest “evidence” listed in the affidavit relating to Jose was, nine months earlier, he was a passenger in a truck that was carrying a cardboard box containing plastic wrap. They noted that people involved in drugs sometimes use plastic wrap. This is no evidence at all; it’s not even probable cause. People involved in the drug trade sometimes use cardboard boxes too. The police had suspicions but no probable cause and no actual evidence. None.
(2) Despite being full of factual errors and contradictions, despite listing no actual probable cause to believe that a given person had committed a specific crime and that specific evidence of such crimes could be found at a specific place as required by the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, a judge issued a warrant authorizing a massive fishing expedition.
(3) From what is currently known, it appears that the police found potential evidence of crime, which included a small, unspecified amount of marijuana, at only one of the four homes they searched on May 5. These are surprisingly unproductive results for multiple raids on those involved in a criminal enterprise of the size and scope that Sheriff Dupnik continues to claim.
(4) Police statements indicate that their surveillance of their suspects was an on-again, off-again affair, and was anything but comprehensive. In fact, Sheriff Dupnik said that they did not watch Jose Guerena’s home at all in the hours prior to serving the search warrant and killing him because they were afraid it would tip off those they were trying to catch. This is, to put it kindly, utter nonsense. Failing to watch a home about to be searched for drugs before making the search is the worst kind of incompetence. For the sake of safety alone, it is mandatory that officers know exactly what is going on at such homes. Is anyone home? If so, who? How many? Where are they? What are they doing? Is there any indication that they suspect something? Is the case blown? Are they destroying evidence? We’re not speaking of highly advanced SWAT techniques here, but of Basic Police Procedure 101. One need not be Sherlock Holmes to accomplish such a simple yet mandatory task.”
It’s sort of surreal to read about the area around me and to know that others think the former and current Marines who live here are drug runners and just waiting to kill someone who knocks on the door.
Having a Border Patrol hat under his bed is not a crime. He had one because he tried to become a agent. They turned him down due to vision issues if IRC.
Why was he in the hallway pointing a gun at the police?
Offical report:
“A close examination of the rifle revealed it appeared to have been damaged by being fired upon from such an angle that it must have been pointed toward officers.”
“The officers were mistaken in believing Mr. Guerena fired at them. However, when Mr. Guerena raised the ar-15 semi-automatic assault rifle in their direction, they needed to take immediate action to stop the deadly threat against them.”
>> But, but, but this family was perfect. Never a criminal offense among them. OH NOEZ JACKBOOTZ!
FU
Give me a link to your source.
I believe that the Founding Fathers started the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thingee, as a reaction to the English usage of "guilty until proven innocent".
Did something change while I wasn't looking?
Look, donna - we just disagree, no need for a flame war. Whomping on you wouldn't be nearly as fun as gigging Eschoir, ash, or billy paul.
Let's leave at that.
So, the smart and logical thing for him to do was to point a gun at cops?
Read the article. He was likely expecting an attack from rival criminals.
Man killed by SWAT tied to multiple inquiries
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/06/15/20110615guerena0615.html
Once again, read real slow, he was not breaking the law, the cops had no reason to be there. Officer friendly could have called him and picked him up. No problem. This started with cops kicking down the mans door, he did not call them to come out there and kick down his door. From the time the cops put on their little play military gear it was all wrong and on them, he did not start this confrontation they did. The cops did this not the dead man.
We do not sentence men to die for being ‘tied’ to multiple inquiries.
The bottom line - in the same circumstance, would an innocent man concerned with protecting his family, have been gunned down by the police?
Yes.
Was there any indication that the dead man was a serious criminal, requiring a forced entry?
No. None.
Did they even FIND anything criminal?
No. A gun stolen 3 years before wasn’t likely to be one he stole for himself.
Given that he had family members who had been killed in a home invasion, it is likely he WAS concerned with an attack by criminals. Thus, the cops should not act like criminals breaking down his door. And in fact, he had been interviewed by the police peaceably multiple times prior to the home invasion.
7” is not enough time for a homeowner - particularly one just off a night shift at work - to get out of bed, grab clothes, and get to the front door. But that was all the time Pima SWAT gave him.
BTW - with 71 shots fired at him, I could just about promise that some of the rounds would hit a leading edge of his gun. If not before he went down, afterward. Heck, lots of them went thru the rear wall of his house, and his rear wall sure wasn’t attacking anyone...
Now, want to explain why they didn’t allow paramedics to provide treatment?
Badge-lickers never get the hint.
>> If the police where professionals
These paramilitary exercises are out of control. We deserve smarter, more agile, Constitutionally driven LEOs.
There are too many dolts dangerously empowered. Only the best should be granted the responsibility to suppress, arrest, dispatch. There should be no benefits other the direct pay given for the dangerous work of enforcing the law. There should be no benefits for “putting in the time”: no pensions, no unions, no immunity, but triple the pay. $250k/year is a good starting number for an individual granted the special Constitutional powers.
Badge-lickers?
No decent conservative would ever use such a word.
Donna that is polite to some of the things I have seen people and police called here. It is better that the boot comment.
I still must tip my hat your way. You have an unpopular opinion, at least on this thread, but your arguments are devoid of baiting and button-pushing. I like that.
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