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Obama State Department set to cede oil-rich Alaska islands to Russia
Washington Times ^ | Monday 20th February | admin

Posted on 03/16/2012 12:28:02 PM PDT by Candor7

Obama’s State Department is giving away seven strategic, resource-laden Alaskan islands to the Russians. Yes, to the Putin regime in the Kremlin. … The seven endangered islands in the Arctic Ocean and Bering Sea include one the size of Rhode Island and Delaware combined. The Russians are also to get the tens of thousands of square miles of oil-rich seabeds surrounding the islands. The Department of Interior estimates billions of barrels of oil are at stake.

The State Department has undertaken the giveaway in the guise of a maritime boundary agreement between Alaska and Siberia. Astoundingly, our federal government itself drew the line to put these seven Alaskan islands on the Russian side. But as an executive agreement, it could be reversed with the stroke of a pen by President Obama or Secretary Clinton.

The agreement was negotiated in total secrecy. The state of Alaska was not allowed to participate in the negotiations, nor was the public given any opportunity for comment. This is despite the fact the Alaska Legislature has passed resolutions of opposition – but the State Department doesn’t seem to care.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: alaska; ntsa; obama; russia; trerason
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: thackney
But the map is something made up.

Really? How so?

Google Map

Just a myth?
51 posted on 03/16/2012 7:42:51 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer; Candor7; melancholy

.

Thanks, y’all. ... Appreciate the pings.

.


52 posted on 03/16/2012 10:54:26 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: blueyon
were is the Senate and House standing up to him on this

I believe that Senator Jesse Helms was the last senator who brought up the issue.

I don't remember any house members bringing this subject up. If I were searching for such, I would start with the Alaska delegation, particularly back in the 1990s when this issue had a bit of political traction. (There were a few senators, notably Senator Richard Lugar and Senator Ted Stevens who were vehemently in favor of the USSR's position.)

Two pages of interest might be these:

  Resolutions of Alaska and California Legislatures Against the Giveaway

  Organization Resolutions Against the Giveaway (this includes resolutions from the VFW, the American Legion, and the Daughters of the American Revolution.)

53 posted on 03/17/2012 5:27:16 AM PDT by snowsislander (Gingrich 2012.)
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To: Brown Deer

Read the treaty.

We can start from the south.

It say between Attou and Copper.

How can Copper be included?.

Can you show me a single map of Alaska that extends past Attou?


54 posted on 03/17/2012 6:11:56 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer
Obama State Department set to cede oil-rich Alaska islands to Russia...

I'm sooooooooooo surprised. /s

55 posted on 03/17/2012 8:21:50 AM PDT by GOPJ (Democrat-Media Complex - buried stories and distorted facts... freeper 'andrew' Breitbart)
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To: thackney; Cicero; Candor7; LucyT
But the map is something made up.

So the map included in The Agreement Between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics On the Maritime Boundary, with Annex, Signed at Washington, June 1, 1990 is something made up?
56 posted on 03/17/2012 11:15:32 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Candor7

57 posted on 03/17/2012 12:07:06 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer
Territorial Claims are based on clear principles of International Law. Many of these principles have been codified into treaties and provide a good overview of several of the legal theories involved, such as contiguity. http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/8_1_1958_territorial_sea.pdf The US having claim to the DeLong Islands allows them to extend their exploration rights of the sea bed there. The CHinese are using the same argument with the Spratly Islands.

Of course Obama would not want to promote the Oil Companies claims in otherwise Russian waters, as the Russians have been doing to Canada and the USA.Obama is an idiot and has ideological issues with extending US hegemony internationally. Obama would rather apologize for our nations former conduct, and instead seeks historical "justice" for the so called "down trodden." This makes Obama weak and a prime target for the Russians, China, and many other nations. Joe Miller is the Alaskan politician ( Republican) who is raising the stink about Obama and his abandonment of the DeLong Islands claim. I believe Joe Miller when he says that Obama is not acting in the bests interests of our country.

58 posted on 03/17/2012 1:16:50 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascist info.. http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: Candor7
Obama is not acting in the bests interests of our country.

Anyone who doesn't believe that is just like 0bama, a...

59 posted on 03/17/2012 1:31:00 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Candor7
This is outrageous! Thanks for posting.
Will call my Congressmann and Senator on Monday.
BTTT.
60 posted on 03/17/2012 5:23:32 PM PDT by mickie
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To: Brown Deer
So the map included in The Agreement Between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics On the Maritime Boundary, with Annex, Signed at Washington, June 1, 1990 is something made up?

It was not part of the treaty you tried to link it to. It was made afterwards.

The treaty is clear these islands were not part of the 1967 agreement. Do you agree with that?

61 posted on 03/18/2012 5:04:50 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer

1867, not 1967.


62 posted on 03/18/2012 5:05:54 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer
From your link on the 1990 Agreement:

The preamble to the Agreement recalls the 1867 Convention and expresses the desire of the two Parties to resolve issues concerning their maritime boundary. It also sets forth their objective of ensuring that where coastal state jurisdiction could be exercised in the absence of a maritime boundary by either Party in accordance with international law, such jurisdiction is exercised by either the United States or the Soviet Union.

Article 1 records the agreement of the Parties that the line described as the “western limit” in the 1867 Convention (the 1867 Convention Line) is the maritime boundary. It also describes the legal effect of the boundary, obligating each Party to respect the boundary as limiting the extent of its coastal state jurisdiction otherwise permitted by international law for any purpose. It thereby settles the issue of where each side may, consistent with international law, manage offshore resources (the fishery resources of the waters as well as the oil and gas and other resources of the seabed and subsoil) and other oceans uses in marine areas that both claimed or could have claimed.

Article 2 describes the maritime boundary and indicates that it is defined by lines connecting geographic positions set forth in an Annex, which is an integral part of the Agreement.

The maritime boundary proceeds north and south of the Bering Strait from the mid-point between Big Diomede Island (Soviet) and Little Diomede Island (U.S.). North of the Strait, the boundary extends due north along the meridian of this mid-point as far as permitted under international law.

South of the Strait, the boundary generally extends from the same mid point southwestward to 167 degrees East Longitude (the end point of the Convention Line, as described in the 1867 Convention). This end point lies slightly beyond 200 nautical miles of the respective coasts of the United States and the Soviet Union.

- - - - - -

The above confirms the original treaty lines.

Which of those islands do you believe lies East of this line?

- - - - -

Also, the map you posted before, with a more eastern line than the treaty line, does not exist in this document.

Did you read it before you posted? Or did you copy the link from some tin-foil hat conspiracy society?

63 posted on 03/18/2012 5:14:07 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: mickie
Will call my Congressmann and Senator on Monday.

You ought to read the rest of the thread first.

This is an old urban legend and false.

64 posted on 03/18/2012 5:15:22 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
Also, the map you posted before, with a more eastern line than the treaty line, does not exist in this document.

Which map does not exist in which document? In what document does the map that you posted exist?

Did you read it before you posted?

Yes, have you read it?

Which of those islands do you believe lies East of this line?

What islands do you believe lie east and west of 193 degrees?
65 posted on 03/18/2012 8:25:23 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: thackney; melancholy
Or did you copy the link from some tin-foil hat conspiracy society?

Why do you continue to dig yourself deeper into that hole of ignorance?
66 posted on 03/18/2012 10:13:40 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: thackney
This myth made it to the Washington Times?

We’ve been reading about it Free Republic since the mid-years of George Bush.


That's odd. It was just recently published by Joe Miller on February 26th of this year. How did you read his article way back then?

Joe Miller was the 2010 Republican nominee for the U.S. Senate from Alaska. He is a West Point graduate and decorated combat veteran from the first Gulf War. A former judge, Joe graduated from Yale Law School and was later awarded an advanced economics degree from the University of Alaska.
67 posted on 03/18/2012 10:18:18 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer
I don't know what to say to you. You claim the map I posted from the state department is wrong, and the boundary described in the treaty is wrong.

As further proof, you post a link to the same text as the treaty, and a map matching what I posted.

What islands do you believe lie east and west of 193 degrees?

193 is not the dividing line, it is a crossing point on that angled line.

The western boundary of the treaty is defined as the midpoint between Krusenstern and Ratmanoff on the 65 degrees, thirty minutes north latitude. From this point is heads straight north.

Leaving the claimed islands Bennett, Henrietta, Jeannette, Wrangel and Herald on the Russian side of the border.

Then we go back to the same starting point and head southwest, between St. Lawrence and the southeast point of Cape Choukotski, then continue southwest to pass midway between the island of Attou and Copper island.

Since the border is east of Copper island, Copper island is in Russia.

None of these island were ever in the US. Can we stop this nonsense now?

68 posted on 03/18/2012 3:28:32 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer

As was posted in #23, this crap has been on Free Republic long before any of us considered Obama as a possible presidential candidate.


69 posted on 03/18/2012 3:31:15 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer
It was just recently published by Joe Miller on February 26th of this year.

If you would please, could you point me to a link of Joe Miller's writing on this?

When I followed the original examiner (blog) claim about his WND, it turns out he isn't listed and an author and a search did not provide any results.

http://www.wnd.com/?s=joe+miller+islands&sort=date&order=desc&from=1970-01-01&to=&category=&author=

70 posted on 03/18/2012 3:48:47 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
If you would please, could you point me to a link of Joe Miller's writing on this?

When I followed the original examiner (blog) claim about his WND, it turns out he isn't listed and an author and a search did not provide any results.


Are you serious? because that is how I arrived here:

http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/obamas-giveaway-oil-rich-islands-to-russia/

Exclusive: Joe Miller sounds alarm over deal to put land in hands of Putin's Kremlin

Published: 02/16/2012 at 7:55 PM

By Joe Miller
71 posted on 03/18/2012 4:59:29 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: thackney
You claim the map I posted from the state department is wrong...

Where did I claim that?

As further proof, you post a link to the same text as the treaty, and a map matching what I posted.

Proof of what? You stated that the map I posted was made up! Now you say it's the same as yours?

What islands do you believe lie east and west of 193 degrees?

You still didn't answer the question.
72 posted on 03/18/2012 5:04:43 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer
http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/obamas-giveaway-oil-rich-islands-to-russia/

Thank you.

73 posted on 03/19/2012 4:32:47 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer
You claim the map I posted from the state department is wrong...

Where did I claim that?

I messed this up. I thought I read a reply that is not there. Please forgive me.

Proof of what? You stated that the map I posted was made up! Now you say it's the same as yours?

The map you posted as part of #43 includes a heavy dark line of the (false) claim of a border west of the border in the treaty. That is the map I was referring to. I believe the heavy dark border west of Copper and Wrangle is made up, not ever true.

What islands do you believe lie east and west of 193 degrees?

You still didn't answer the question.

Meridan 193 is not the dividing point of the treaty. It is the end point of the line starting midway between the islands of Krusenstern and Ratmanoff, proceeding southwest between St. Lawrence and Cape Choukotski, to midway between Attou and Copper and continuing in this direction until it reaches the 193 merdian.

The 193 merdian is not a dividing line. It is the end of the angled dividing line.

74 posted on 03/19/2012 4:46:21 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
You still didn't answer the question.

and yet still again. ;-)
75 posted on 03/19/2012 11:14:55 AM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer

I will answer the question after you show me where in the treaty it has meaning besides the end of the angled, western border.


76 posted on 03/19/2012 11:23:18 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney; Berlin_Freeper; Hotlanta Mike; Silentgypsy; repubmom; HANG THE EXPENSE; Nepeta; ...

The last clause of Article I states, "...to the meridian of one hundred and ninety-three degrees west longitude [167 degrees east], so as to include in the territory conveyed the whole of the Aleutian islands east of that meridian."

Why do you keep avoiding the question? Why is it so important to you do defend your president? Why do you continue to call it a myth that the Hon. Joseph Miller wrote the following:

"But as an executive agreement, it could be reversed with the stroke of a pen by President Obama or Secretary Clinton.

The agreement was negotiated in total secrecy. The state of Alaska was not allowed to participate in the negotiations, nor was the public given any opportunity for comment. This is despite the fact the Alaska Legislature has passed resolutions of opposition – but the State Department doesn’t seem to care.
"
77 posted on 03/19/2012 12:07:31 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer
The last clause of Article I states, "...to the meridian of one hundred and ninety-three degrees west longitude

Let us keep the whole sentence in which 193° appears. It is not the border, it is the end of the angled border.

The same western limit, beginning at the same initial point, proceeds thence in a course nearly southwest, through Behring’s Straits and Behring’s Sea, so as to pass midway between the northwest point of the island of St. Lawrence and the southeast point of Cape Choukotski, to the meridian of one hundred and seventy-two west longitude; thence, from the intersection of that meridian, in a southwesterly direction, so as to pass midway between the island of Attou and the Copper Island of the Kormandorski couplet or group, in the North Pacific Ocean, to the meridian of one hundred and ninety-three degrees west longitude, so as to include in the territory conveyed the whole of the Aleutian Islands east of that meridian.

It is not every thing east of 193°. Again, dividing line is starting midway between the islands of Krusenstern and Ratmanoff, proceeding southwest between St. Lawrence and Cape Choukotski, to midway between Attou and Copper and continuing in this direction until it reaches the 193 meridian.

So how can Copper Island be east of the boundary, when the boundary line is defined to be east of the island?

Copper Island is not part of the Aleutian Islands. Aleutian Islands, chain of small islands that separate the Bering Sea (north) from the main portion of the Pacific Ocean (south) and extend in an arc southwest, then northwest, for about 1,100 miles (1,800 km) from the tip of the Alaska Peninsula to Attu Island, Alaska, U.S. {from theEncyclopædia Britannica}

As stated in the treaty it is part of the Kormandorski couplet.

Why is it so important to you do defend your president?

I posted the same refutation of this same myth back when George Bush was accused of it. As several of us have pointed out, this has been refuted on Free Republic many times over many years.

Why do you continue to call it a myth that the Hon. Joseph Miller wrote the following:

With your help, I now know Joe Miller wrote that. It only lowers my opinion of Joe Miller. It does not change the words of the 1867 treaty.

78 posted on 03/19/2012 1:06:20 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer
Sorry, I left out one reply.

The agreement was negotiated in total secrecy.

It was not in secrecy; it has always been reality. Every real state map, include the official maps used by the State of Alaska have NEVER shown these islands to be part of Alaska.

The map you posted yourself in #57 shows the same angled line, dividing the nations with Copper Island in the Russian Territory.

79 posted on 03/19/2012 1:11:51 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer
In the interest of sharing information showing this is not a recent change of border, I found this document while searching on the subject.

It follows the lines as described in the 1867. This was written by the Department of State in 1965.

International Boundary Study
U.S. – Russia Convention Line of 1867
http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/limitsinseas/ibs014.pdf

It give the connecting line of following points as the Western Boundary.

72° 00’.0 N, 168° 58’ 22”.587 W
65° 30’.0 N, 168° 58’ 22”.587 W
64° 12’.3 N, 172° 00’ W
53° 45’.0 N 170° 16’.0 W
50° 36’.4 N 167° 00’ E

193° meridian coincides with 167° East Longitude.

This was written decades ago. It is not a secret conspiracy involving President Bush or Obama.

80 posted on 03/19/2012 1:52:49 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
Well, I hope you're proud of yourself.

You and your stinkin' facts have ruined another perfectly good conspiracy theory.

81 posted on 03/19/2012 2:00:47 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Mr. Lucky

Sadly, not for all.


82 posted on 03/19/2012 2:08:38 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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Image and video hosting by TinyPic

The Hon. Joseph Miller wrote the following:

"But as an executive agreement, it could be reversed with the stroke of a pen by the _resident or Secretary Klint0n.

"The agreement was negotiated in total secrecy. The state of Alaska was not allowed to participate in the negotiations, nor was the public given any opportunity for comment. This is despite the fact the Alaska Legislature has passed resolutions of opposition – but the State Department doesn’t seem to care."

83 posted on 03/19/2012 3:41:36 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: Cheburashka
Thanks for the map.

Bennett Island was named after James Gordon Bennett, Jr. publisher of the New York Herald, who sponsored an expedition to the area.

But Herald Island wasn't named after the newspaper but after a British ship, the HMS Herald.

84 posted on 03/19/2012 3:50:36 PM PDT by x
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To: Brown Deer

Exactly. You hit the nail right on the Thackney Thick head.


85 posted on 03/19/2012 4:34:13 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascist info.. http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: Candor7

Wow, insults and talking about a Freeper without pinging him.

Very nice.

What did you think about the 1965 Department of State giving the modern coordinates confirmering the lines described in the original 1867 treaty?


86 posted on 03/19/2012 5:35:16 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer; Candor7
Even the Alaska Supreme Court has ruled these islands outside of Alaska. The bold emphasis is mine. Further info at the link.

D. Denardo v. State of Alaska (12/23/94),
THE SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF ALASKA
http://touchngo.com/sp/html/sp-4156.htm

Daniel DeNardo claims interests in five islands which lie north of Siberia in the Arctic Ocean: Wrangel, Herald, Henrietta, Bennett and Jeannette. When he attempted to record these interests in the Nome recording district, the recorder refused to accept DeNardo’s documents, taking the position that the islands are not within the Nome recording district.

DeNardo sued, seeking equitable relief and damages. He alleged that “[t]he State of Alaska being responsible for the designation of the recording district must designate a place of recordation for plaintiff's property rights as it has recorded other’s [sic] property rights in the state of Alaska.”

The State moved to dismiss, claiming that it lacks authority to designate recording districts for the Arctic Islands. The State's motion was granted. DeNardo appeals. We affirm.

The Arctic Islands are not located within the Nome recording district or any of the State's other thirty-three recording districts. Under AS 40.17.020(a), DeNardo’s documents may not be recorded in any recording district in Alaska.

Moreover, the State has no duty to create a recording district for the Arctic Islands, as it is not governing them. The question of sovereignty over the Arctic Islands is a subject committed to the executive and legislative branches of the United States government. See United States v. Louisiana, 363 U.S. 1, 35 (1960). Until and unless the United States government indicates that the Arctic Islands are part of the State of Alaska, the State has no duty to accept for recording documents affecting title to real property on the islands.

87 posted on 03/19/2012 6:14:43 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
Let us keep the whole sentence in which 193° appears.

It won't change what is written! Pay attention:

The same western limit, beginning at the same initial point, proceeds thence in a course nearly southwest, through Behring’s Straits and Behring’s Sea, so as to pass midway between the northwest point of the island of St. Lawrence and the southeast point of Cape Choukotski, to the meridian of one hundred and seventy-two west longitude; thence, from the intersection of that meridian, in a southwesterly direction, so as to pass midway between the island of Attou and the Copper Island of the Kormandorski couplet or group, in the North Pacific Ocean, to the meridian of one hundred and ninety-three degrees west longitude, so as to include in the territory conveyed the whole of the Aleutian Islands east of that meridian.

It is not every thing east of 193°.

It very clearly states, that it includes "the whole of the Aleutian Islands east of that meridian."

It only lowers my opinion of Joe Miller.

and YOU have absolutely no credibility!
88 posted on 03/19/2012 6:17:12 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: thackney; Brown Deer

It does not matter what the court has ruled. It is a claim that can be still made. And the abandonment of the claim could have severe repercussions on oil exploration. This is Joe Millar’s point, and one you seem to insist on continuing to miss. Why?


89 posted on 03/19/2012 7:48:54 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascist info.. http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: thackney; Brown Deer; mojitojoe
Wow, insults and talking about a Freeper without pinging him.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was talking about you? Hardly.

Quote:Posted to Brown Deer.

"Exactly. You hit the nail right on the Thackney Thick head."

Thats hardly talking about you or insulting. Its factually correct. You do not know the rudiments of international territorial claims, nor why claims of sovereignty are still made no matter how far fetched they might seem according to maps or adjudications. Just passing by and planting a flag is enough to anchor a claim. Subsequent activity often vitiates the claim.

The Chinese claim the Spratley Islands, when in fact no international map has ever showed them as Chinese. The Russians claim parts of Northern Canada, although no maps show that Russia has ever been part of the Canadian North they claimed by planting a Russian flag on the sea floor via submarine.

You fail to separate soevereign strategy from what you call adjudicated fact. This is a somewhat serious lapse, but one which you seem to continue to cling to. Well have at it.

Do we have enough claim to the area to send in oil exploration rigs accompanied by several US Navy war ships? Likely. But unikely to happen with Obama's apologetic, anti-capitalist, anti-oil energy foreign policy.

Joe Miller thinks its a serious oil exploration policy lapse and one which needs to be publicized.I agree with Joe.

Obama's ideology is hurting our nation.This is but one example of how nefarious the problem is and why he needs to begone.

Photobucket

90 posted on 03/19/2012 8:16:49 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascist info.. http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: Brown Deer
so as to pass midway between the island of Attou and the Copper Island of the Kormandorski couplet

What does that description mean to you? How can it put Copper Island in US territory when it was defined to be on the Russian side?

the whole of the Aleutian Islands

That part is true. But Copper Island is not part of the Aleutians, as the treaty stated and referenced in many sources including the Encyclopedia Britannica. In the treaty, it clearly states "Copper Island of the Kormandorski couplet or group".

91 posted on 03/20/2012 4:35:03 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Candor7

So I agree with the 1867 treaty, the 1965 Department of State, the 1990 maritime boundary agreement, the 1994 Alaska Supreme Court Ruling, the 2003 Fact Sheet from the Department of State, but I (and I guess all of them) do not know the rudiments of international territorial claim.

Got it.

And when you use my name, you are not talking about me.

Got it.


92 posted on 03/20/2012 4:42:34 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Mr. Lucky

Still Sad...

;-)


93 posted on 03/20/2012 4:44:08 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

“Still Sad...”

Pathos or bathos - that is the question!

It would appear that one can now get a Groupon for lobotomies - who knew?


94 posted on 03/20/2012 5:35:00 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: thackney
I will answer the question after you show me where in the treaty it has meaning besides the end of the angled, western border.

LIAR!
95 posted on 03/20/2012 2:23:40 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer
after you show me where in the treaty it has meaning besides the end of the angled, western border.

You haven't done this yet.

But to appease you, for starters, all of the Hawaiian Islands are east of the 193° Meridian. Of course the treaty doesn't define the 193° meridian as the border, it is the end of the angled border.

Why don't you try answering one of the questions you keep avoiding:

so as to pass midway between the island of Attou and the Copper Island of the Kormandorski couplet

What does that description mean to you?

96 posted on 03/20/2012 2:28:54 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney
You haven't done this yet.

and the lies just keep on coming...
97 posted on 03/20/2012 2:37:10 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Brown Deer

Out of curiosity (and I do apologize if this has been mentioned in the thread-—my FRee time is zero. I’m replying at work) wouldn’t this considered a treaty ? Wouldn’t the Imperial Senate have to approve this ?

I know I’m being a tad naive here, but I still hope for happy endings.


98 posted on 03/20/2012 6:32:49 PM PDT by Absolutely Nobama (NO COMPROMISE! NO RETREAT! NO SURRENDER! I AM A CONSERVATIVE! CASE CLOSED!)
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To: Absolutely Nobama

It was a treaty. It was done in 1867. The 1990 Agreement between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the maritime boundary starts with the following:

The Parties agree that the line described as the “western limit” in article 1 of the 1867 Convention, as defined in article 2 of this Agreement, is the maritime boundary between the United States and the Soviet Union.

They made no changes to the original treaty. Only clarified how the new claims of 200 nautical miles maritime boundary was handled as the nations are closer at this point than 400 nm, ie, the 200 nm from each side overlap.

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/TREATIES/USA-RUS1990MB.PDF

No president, including Obama, has done any action on this since 1990.


99 posted on 03/21/2012 5:00:41 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Brown Deer
The same western limit, beginning at the same initial point, proceeds thence in a course nearly southwest, through Behring’s Straits and Behring’s Sea, so as to pass midway between the northwest point of the island of St. Lawrence and the southeast point of Cape Choukotski, to the meridian of one hundred and seventy-two west longitude; thence, from the intersection of that meridian, in a southwesterly direction, so as to pass midway between the island of Attou and the Copper Island of the Kormandorski couplet or group, in the North Pacific Ocean, to the meridian of one hundred and ninety-three degrees west longitude, so as to include in the territory conveyed the whole of the Aleutian Islands east of that meridian.

The whole of the Aleutian Islands from Attou east is included in the US territory.

As the the treaty stated, Copper Island is part of the Kormandorski couplet, not the Aleutian Islands. Just as the map you posted in #57 showed, the Western end of the Aleutians ends at Attou.

Are you trying to claim that Copper Island, separated by over 200 miles from Attou is part of the Aleutian Islands but Behring, about 30 miles from Copper is not? The 193 meridian divides these two.

100 posted on 03/21/2012 5:17:46 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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