Skip to comments.Saddled with college debt
Posted on 03/17/2012 8:57:01 AM PDT by Sub-Driver
Saddled with college debt By Melissa M. Horton, Published: March 16
You can go to any college you want.
You wont have to pay for college.
Youll have lots of scholarships and financial aid.
These are just a few of the things my parents said throughout my childhood. I am a second-generation U.S.-born Latina. Growing up in the suburbs of Fort Worth, I was a straight-A student in Advanced Placement classes, with many civic activities on my resume.
At 17, I never could have dreamed that my parents promises were lies.
A decade-plus later, I, like many millennials, have more than $100,000 in student loan debt, most of which can be directly attributed to my parents unfortunate placement smack in the middle of the middle class and the fact that our family was uneducated about financing higher education.
My parents a nurse and a police officer were the first in their families to attend college, though Dad dropped out and joined the Marine Corps during Vietnam. Both baby boomers who attended state universities, they were ill-prepared for their two public-school-educated daughters to attend private universities that left us drowning in debt.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
This is why we need “comprehensive” tuition “reform”. The skyrocketing costs of tuition being charged by the Marxists running our colleges and universities are absurd.
What will a bankrupt America look like?
I don’t know what she is complaining about How much does she make as an attorney vs what she would make as a high school graduate?
She took the risk and now must pay back her loans in inflated cheaper dollars thanks to Bernanke and his son’s $400,000 student loan debt.
its the american way borrow borrow borrow default...yeah thats the ticket everybody default Jubilee!!!
On my phone so this will be short. I have absolutely no sympathy for this whining spoiled brat. I went though undergrad on the GI Bill and had.enough at.the end to take me halfway through.Law School. I worked at least.one job the entire time I was in school. My wife worked retail as well.
She is nothing more than a poster-child for the Entitlement Generation.
Like you, hubby and I put two kids through state schools
(UCIrvine and CSUFullerton), at the same time with cash.
We are the white, middle class who must pay for everything.
We pay our bills and sacrifice a little:
No hair salon,
No nail salon,
No new cars,
No labels on our clothes,
No Coach handbags (hate those handbags - big waste of money).
No eating out.
Good news is our children are educated and have jobs
that pay well. They are not in debt and neither are we.
PRAISING GOD! It was all worth it.
Government handouts are a shackle.
I think the major problem with student loans is the misconception regarding the interest rates.
Students are given “low interest” loans but the way the interest is compounded, the reality is that if one pays off the loan according to the ten year plan, one actually pays back more than fifty percent to the lender.
I learned this the hard way when I agreed to take out a parent loan for my daughter to attend an out of state university. The loan was for $13,000 at 7.25% which seemed okay, but when I got the payment plan the amount I will pay back, if I maintain the standard payment for ten years is more than $19,000!
Last year, of the $1650.00 I paid toward the loan, nearly $900.00 of it was in interest.
That is the information that students and parents need before they take out such large loans. Informed consent is what is needed, not forgiveness or the ability to default on what is a personal choice. No one forced me to take that loan, just as no one forced this young woman and her parents.
We must stop allowing people to borrow all kinds of money with the thought that they can just walk away from it later. Making it harder to default will hopefully make them more cautious about taking on debt.
On the plus side, this young lady at least got a valuable degree (apparently law) so she should be able to pay off her loans. When you have a degree in sociology or gender studies you're pretty well screwed.
Her parents a nurse and a police officer? Sounds to me like they did not do without much on that income. Plus benefits and healthy sized retirements.
She had to go to a private school so she has to pay the price. Then she had out of state tuition costs. All her choices.
Thank the Lord my children didn’t want to stray very far for college.
Right, life isn’t easy. This seems to be something that conservatives understand but liberals don’t.
Obama’s plan is to forgive student loans after 10 years if they go into public service. No religious public service however.
(In other words don’t go into private business like Michelle and I told you not to do.)
This plan goes further and forgives everyone debts after 10 years if they make payments. That may be the clincher here.
Being a Cal-state grad - always thought the kid would go that route. 2 years of JC, then we had enough saved for 2 years of state college level tuition. Well - the kid surprised us and got a National Merit Scholarship. He is going to the University of Oklahoma...where two years of California tuition stretches to 4 years.
The money he is being educated on was put away by my wife and I during the late 90’s/early 2000’s during the dot-com boom. We hadn’t been able to contribute to the fund actively for quite awhile. ‘
Moral of story - he is going to get through school without owing anyone any money, and we are only out of pocket the transportation too/from OU. If he needs to go longer...he gets a job!
Many of these kids need to stay out of universities and go to trade
schools or tech schools!! Our universities are nothing more than
Institutions of propaganda!!!!
No scholarships for my boy, actually I’m just happy he’s in his third year and hasn’t quit like many of his friends. Most kids don’t realize how important that degree really is in life.
Certainly they can provide a liberal litmus test for all college student loans to be forgiven in total...
1. Must have voted for Dems every election cycle for min. ten years
2. Yearly contributions made to the DNC
3. Given ‘charity ‘ to Planned ParentHood
4. Joined or supported NEA or similar UNION groups
5. Assisted community efforts to aid poor women of minority or illegal status
6. Volunteer time to serve on election campaigns of Democrat politicians and office holders.
Do these and all college related debts aew wiped clean.
“Informed consent is what is needed, not forgiveness or the ability to default on what is a personal choice. No one forced me to take that loan, just as no one forced this young woman and her parents.”
No one is contesting that. The problem is by making it impossible to discharge extensive education debt, the economy is denied the consumptive benefit that it would receive if said students were spending their money on consumer goods. Which is precisely what some of us argued back in 05 when Dubya signed off on this nonsense.
I had no illusions. My family was uneducated and made it clear that they might feed me two years after high school graduation but that I shouldn’t expect anything more. I paid as I went. I have little respect for overprivileged hothouse flowers who believe that others should pay their expenses.
Very good point. Our son's guidance counselors pushed ivy league schools and expensive private schools during all their parent information sessions. They encouraged people to apply to unaffordable schools and told us that there was lots of scholarship and financial aid money out there. They were completely wrong. Our son is an excellent student, but there was very little offered anywhere because he was just a white boy with parents who had saved some money and still had an income. He is at Penn State, and we're paying for it all. His education is excellent, and we hope that if things go reasonably well, we can get him through his bachelor's without debt. His brother is two years behind him, and although he's going to apply to a more expensive private school, he expects he will probably stay in state and join his brother. PSU is hardly inexpensive, but it's far less than most of the private schools being pushed by our guidance department. When families take on too much debt, the guidance department doesn't feel the pain, but they sure look good when they can say that the school has sent kids to prestigious universities.
No. These "students" took on the debt, now they pay it off (where the hell do you think that "debt" goes on a Federally backed student loan if individuals can simply take a bankruptcy? US!!!). It will suck, they won't drive beamers or have huge mcmansions, they will simply not have their full pay for a decade or more until they fulfill their obligation. It is not my or anyone else's fault they took the loans.
What, they don't like a circumstance they created by free will so *poof*, they are forgiven? Screw that noise. The "impact" on the economy in reality will be a correction for poor planning on individual's decisions.
I say for every student defaulting on their loans, the schools they attended ALSO share in part of relieving the debt obligation as the schools should have vetted better themselves instead of running a mill.
That's right. The "ten year" plan is a gamble. You are paying back in progressive (future dollars) dollars estimated across those years. You seriously think you should get a loan today and pay back "today's" amount ten years into the future? What would be the purpose of the loaning party? Take it in the shorts and at a loss?
If you are shocked by this, I can only imagine your chagrin at your mortgage agreement...
That money was already spent in the economy through the tuition and living costs of the students.
The bank or government, whoever holds the note, depends on those loans begin repaid. They need that repayment for their own business costs and to have money to invest in other businesses.
It is time for students and parents to make carefully considered decisions about higher education and the return they can expect on their investment. Students cannot keep going into massive debt for degrees that will not lead to lucrative careers or jobs.
The bank or government has made their investment in the form of the loan, they should be payed back. The students and parents took the risk, they have to deal with the failure if the student’s degree does not provide enough for them to pay it back.
Again, if the full impact of these loans is understood before they are taken out, it will hopefully cause the parents and students to rethink the value of taking the loan to make an investment with little or no return.
If we tell kids like this young woman that she and her parents can take out enormous loans for her to attend a small, expensive college to get a degree that will not afford her the ability to pay it back, that we as taxpayers will absorb the loss of her default, because “everyone should go to the college of their choice, without regard to cost”, then kids and parents will continue to take out loans they cannot repay without hesitation or guilt or a sense of responsibility.
Look at what you are agreeing to before you sign on the dotted line. Know what ALL the costs and consequences are before you shackle yourself to debt.
There’s a sucker born every minute and wolves looking to devour that sucker the minute he’s born. Don’t be a sucker.
I was shocked because I did not understand how the interest was compounded.
My only real experience was with my car loan; I borrowed $6,000 at 4.79% for five years. At the end of the five years, the interest amounts to about $600.00, or about 10% of what I borrowed. Seems reasonable.
I am not complaining, hope you don’t think I was. I made the mistake of not fully knowing what I was doing. When I did, you can believe I told my daughter that doing that for three more years was out of the question. She has since returned home and is attending school in state where we can pay as she goes.
I don’t begrudge the bank the interest. I know that’s how the system works. I just didn’t know the full scope of what I was getting into. My mistake I know and I will be paying it off as quickly as possible.
All I meant was that people need to know everything, and they need to EDUCATE themselves. That’s all. Know what you are doing and don’t assume that these loans are cheap sources of education funding.
Believe me, I already know about my mortgage which was paid off several years ago after thirty years. We paid over $125,000 over that time for a house we bought for $35,900, which is about what it is worth now, lol.
The mortgage is a little different. Even though we paid so much, I realize that we would have paid much more in rent over the years and we own our home. In the end, we have a tangible asset and a place to live even if we hit some hard financial times.
With some education, it is a gamble since not all degrees are an assurance of the “big bucks” in one’s career.
The bottom line is that a 4-year university degree is not necessary for most people. K-12 can and should be tweaked to include more vocational paths, and 1 and 2 year colleges can train people inexepensively. This article merely exemplifies the point - she worked her buttocks off in school and with 8 jobs, still has $100,000 in debt, and works in the public sector. Doing what, I don’t know, but I am sure she could have learned most of what she needs to do her job either on the job or in vocational school.
Mid seventies sounds about right. Adjusted for inflation of course. Getting back that $1,500 loan would be nice...but it would cover one mortgage payment today.
“No. These “students” took on the debt, now they pay it off (where the hell do you think that “debt” goes on a Federally backed student loan if individuals can simply take a bankruptcy? US!!!)”
Then perhaps Dubya should have pursued a policy of eliminating Federally backed college loans. You and I both know why that wasn’t done though it’s impolite to mention.
“What, they don’t like a circumstance they created by free will so *poof*, they are forgiven?”
First only liberals talk about forgiveness of loans. I and others on FR back in 05 urged that the policy of bankruptcy for those UNABLE to pay back down college loans be maintained (which btw is NOT a free & clear method). The big gov GOP schmucks however had other plans & set up a nice protection racket for the loan industry.
“I say for every student defaulting on their loans, the schools they attended ALSO share in part of relieving the debt obligation”
I don’t think Vo-tech schools teach law.
“That money was already spent in the economy through the tuition and living costs of the students.”
Some of these loans will have a lifespan of upwards of 30 years. A tad longer than the usual college stay. Again the impact on the economy is a negative. Those in their 20’s - 40’s tend to be the biggest spenders FYI.
“The bank or government, whoever holds the note, depends on those loans begin repaid. They need that repayment for their own business costs and to have money to invest in other businesses.”
Not really. Dubya hooked up the loan industry big time by instituting non-repudiation for educational loans. The banks who hold those notes can give them out without a care in the world precisely because the big government GOP idiots made it impossible for them to be disposed of in bankruptcy. This is harmful to the economy because if a student is directing most if not all of their disposable income to cover interest payments on a loan, consumables take a dive.
A perfectly valid point.
But, about this "lie" the parents told this kid. It's probably more of misled. Folks from that generation still believe college guarantees better jobs. They also believe network news tells the truth. The world has changed and they failed to recognize it.
People who borrow money need to understand they have to pay it back.
If this young woman doesn’t understand that, I don’t see how she’s smart enough to go to college.
The only other alternative excuse would be that she’s corrupt - and felt she could borrow the money and skip out on paying it back.
There are some acceptable reasons why people get into this kind of mess - but the excuse, ‘Mommy and Daddy’ should have told me - isn’t one of them. We are talking ‘college’ right? She’s not 13 or 14 years old, right?
Besides, she’s now learned something important - that good judgement often comes from bad judgement. She’ll be more careful next time. It’s how we all learn.
if she was under 18 when she signed a contract it is voidable, but I believe she was 18 and responsible for her own actions..her parents are responsible for theirs, I am not.
Next thing you know whe will want free birth control....those lawyers seem to try and do a lot of screwing to taxpayers...
No they don’t. I didn’t read where she was a lawyer until after I posted and have even less sympathy. We don’t need more lawyers, though that isn’t why I have less sympathy.
Lawyer wages are starting to deflate. Though it is traditionally a higher that median paying job, which is what makes her complaints even more egregious in my mind. She is one of the few who should pay a lot for education because they payback will be a lot. Risk/reward-investment/return. For most people I don’t think shelling out 6 figures is worth it.
And I don’t begrudge anyone doing what they want. I truly would never want anyone to have to take a job that is unsatisfying. But if you crowd a high paying field with new labor (e.g. lawyers) wages will deflate and education costs will inflate. In fact lawyers are being forced out of their partnerships (by mutual agreement/contract) to make room for the young bloods... which to me make absolutely no sense. A lawyer with 40 years experience is worth a lot more than one with four. But the firms need to give the younger ones the experience and get a return on their investment in them too. So a lawyer in a good firm will do well, but will not necessarily have more than 30 years - she will be out when he/she is 60 or so by mutual agreement. This serves in part to keep the ranks thinner and shift the supply/demand curve.
I agree that what she did wasn’t wise. I went to community college, and now I’m at a state college. I also used the GI Bill. My loan payments won’t be large when I am through.
It just seems that many posters here at FR continually down college. So many people go now that’s it’s extremely hard to get a job without one. I had a TS/SCI clearance, was a veteran, and had an excellent letter of recommendation from a high ranking Federal official. I didn’t get hired due to my lack of a degree.
You must understand, The Washington Post specializes in publishing “oh poor me” stories.
I believe that, and believe it is true to a point. I own my own business. If I had two applicants one with 4 years experience and one with a 4 year degree, the one with experience will likely get the gig. Though I admit that is not true everywhere or for every position, and I bet big corporations and government employers are looking for people with degrees and expect they will stay on for a career.
I am definitely not anti-education. I think what most on here object to is the watering down of higher education and the politicization of education.
I have known many people with college loans who have payed them back over the ten year period. That is the way it should be done, unless of course, they can repay it faster.
They still managed to have disposable income, get married and have children they support.
Those holding onto those loans for 25-30 years are not making money and usually it’s because they went into large debt to obtain a degree that had little real world(private sector) value.
Teaching and the social services degrees are the worst because they cost a fortune and the entrance income for teachers and social workers is low. They have to get more and more “education” to up their income and so it is a vicious cycle. Meanwhile they put off for longer and longer their loan repayment.
Or, how about those who get useless degrees and then go into fields where their degree has no benefit to them or their employer.
Sorry, not buying the lib argument that it’s all Bush’s and the Republicans’ fault. That legislation was a reaction to the fact that the default rate for student loans was soaring. This problem existed long before Bush even took office.
You want to find the culprit? Look at liberal government policies that caused the costs of schooling to rise at a rate that far outstrips the rate of the raise in the cost of living and the rate of wage/income increases.
If you are going to go into debt for your education, you should have to pay it back. Look into the long term possibilities and know what you are getting into before you sign off for hundreds of thousands worth of debt.
There are useful degrees and there are socialist ideology degrees. Often young people who should not even be in college major in areas that they can get an easy abet useless degree. Young people are being encouraged to go into big debt for a degree in crazy things like social services, race(ist) studies or women's studies. When they graduate, there is no way they will make enough money to pay off their debt in a career. It's setting up young people for failure and hard times. It should not happen.
The other problem is young people taking on too much debt even when getting a useful BA. They don't work as they attend classes. They live on campuses and wrack up all their living expenses on debt. It is not right for self serving banksters, colleges and Universities to pretend graduating with a B.A. and the equivalent of a house mortgage is a good idea. Even if college students have to take longer to get through school and have to live at home while getting a degree, they are better off avoiding that steep measure of debt!
So what you hear from Freepers is often contrary to what you hear in the mainstream. It does not mean they dislike students or college. They dislike young people getting ripped off by self serving professionals who should know better and care about the truth more.
Good luck in school, EEGator! Avoid debt!
I am in complete agreement with your statement. I was applying for a federal job. (NSA, FBI, and CIA)
Thanks. I agree with many degrees not being worth the cost. I’m going for engineering, so hopefully it pays off.
I am sure it will. :)
1. I have put 3 kids thru college.The schools and financial “counselors” advise students to apply to their dream schools without regard to the costs. The students and parents both heard this continually all thru high school. They trusted teachers and advisers while seeming to not realize that the schools have a vested interest in having graduates attend highly ranked schools...the parents and community are impressed by the placement stats and will support higher taxes.
2. Local and state taxpayers are already subsidizing higher education through taxes. If students choose not to attend, it is their choice, but we should not have to bailout private tuition. As with primary and secondary schools, it is the parents choice to send their children to private schools; however, they are not demanding bailouts.
3. Look at the endowments of the top private schools. Why can’t they pay off some of their graduates’ student loan debts versus tax payers? Harvard 25 BILLION!!!!
The problem with the entire scheme is that it drives the system away from stability.
By “forgiving” debts, it encourages more people to go into debt; also, the more people wit a degree, the less valuable each degree becomes as a market differentiator.
By insulating colleges from the cost of their failures, it encourages colleges to continue to accelerate costs above the rate of inflation.
It fails to force colleges to trim costs; rather it saddles taxpayers with a hidden tax (the loan “forgiveness” program) while continuing to shovel taxpayer money, as loans, to left-leaning college administrators and faculty.
Obama is not the smartest president ever, as he fancies himself; but he is smarter than anyone who voted, or will vote, for him...
Melissa M. Horton is a graduate of Simmons College in Boston and Southern Methodist Universitys Dedman School of Law. She served with the Air Force Judge Advocate Generals Corps before practicing law in Texas.
Actually Harvard now has $31+ Billion in endowment; the $25B was from 2005.
Bankruptcy must be initiated to get out of the loans.
Government student loans are not cleared by filing bankruptcy.
Are ther responsible adults running the Universities? Or are they pushing loans the kids can't pay back?
Since most colleges and Universities are liberal, can we assume they've given themselves a 'pass' on the damage they're doing to the young? Maybe like Florida 'Time Share' hucksters - money in their own pockets trumps all? Gotta fill those classroom seats...
Some degrees have jobs at the end - like engineering. A university counselor might tell parents 'here's how long (average) it will take your child to pay off the loan... etc. Or 'your child is majoring in French Lit ? Maybe they should live at home the first two years - and borrow for the last two - carefully...
There are adults at these schools, right?