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Gun that killed Florida teen was fired once not twice by crime watch volunteer
bostonherald.com ^ | 20 March, 2012 | Rene Stutzman and Bianca Prieto

Posted on 03/20/2012 7:08:27 PM PDT by marktwain

Edited on 03/20/2012 7:21:16 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

SANFORD, Fla. — The handgun that killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, was fired once — not twice — by a neighborhood crime watch volunteer, according to new information obtained by the Orlando Sentinel.

Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; florida; georgezimmerman; martin; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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To: Hiro Protaginast
he’s not white. he’s hispanic.

LIke THESE FOLK:


51 posted on 03/20/2012 7:57:55 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ('RETRO' Abortions = performed on 84th trimester individuals who think killing babies is a "right.")
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To: Hiro Protaginast

Hispanic isn’t a racial designation. He’s white.


52 posted on 03/20/2012 8:00:39 PM PDT by stormer
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To: Hiro Protaginast

>>he’s not white. he’s hispanic.

For the purposes of the narrative being pushed here, he is a lily-white gun-crazed Tea Party and NRA member.

And he may be guilty of 2nd degree murder or some such - which doesn’t excuse the race warlords and others pushing a load of nonsense out there.


53 posted on 03/20/2012 8:00:48 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: BOBWADE
He had as much of a right to be on the street as the kid. I guess the Kid had a problem with him and tried to beat the crap out of him. The only problem is that he was armed.

How does your assessment change if Zimmerman grabbed the kid to keep the 'asshole from getting away'?

Does Zimmerman have a right to detain people? If Zimmerman grabbed the kid, does the kid have a right hit him back? Remember, Zimmerman is not a cop, no matter how much he wants to act like one.

54 posted on 03/20/2012 8:01:31 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3
My guess is that when Zimmerman followed Trayvon, then got out of the car, he decided to try and grab him to detain him. ...Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, and this wannabe cop killed a kid.

You realize, of course, that if "your guess" is not based on a logical progression of thought derived from the known facts, that makes YOU a wannabe cop.

So where's you logic, based on what facts?

55 posted on 03/20/2012 8:02:38 PM PDT by Talisker (He who commands, must obey.)
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To: kcvl

Zimmerman is not “white”. This will be a Puerto Rican/Cuban vs. Black riot. I don’t think the race pimps realize that yet. Whole lot of Puerto Ricans in Orlando! Good thing for the Panthers they have Holder backing them up or they would be in big trouble in central FL.


56 posted on 03/20/2012 8:02:59 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: kcvl

Wouldn’t surprise me if Zimmerman wasn’t the shooter and this was staged, unbeknownst to both parties. I’m sure 0bama just can’t wait to start a little ‘civil unrest’ leading up to the election. This will fit nicely with the ‘War on Women’ (how thoughtful of Ms. Fluke to just mysteriously show up!), OWS (homegrown phenomena!), evil oil company spills, and gun chaos in Mexico. Did I leave anything out? Like Tucson, Maybe 0bama will show up at the memorial for this kid and turn that into a campaign rally too! Go, DOJ, go!!!


57 posted on 03/20/2012 8:03:20 PM PDT by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
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To: Dudoight
Zimmerman is a neighborhood watch. He saw someone he didn't recognize, called it in, and WATCHED him.

I live in a crappy neighborhood, and our neighborhood watch does the same thing, and we are coordinated with the sheriff dept. The whole point of the watch is to identify people that don't belong. If I see some suspicious folk walk by my window, I will make my presence known by going out on my porch with phone in hand dialing sheriff dept, and continue to follow their activity to note description and direction of travel.

We have nailed two dealers and break ins have reduced since the watch started. It was reported on my local news today that Zimmerman has called in many reports, so it sounds like that neighborhood has problems too.

58 posted on 03/20/2012 8:03:24 PM PDT by cport (How can political capital be spent on a bunch of ingrates)
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To: lodi90

Exactly!


59 posted on 03/20/2012 8:04:10 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: BushCountry

This was a night time event.


60 posted on 03/20/2012 8:04:13 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: stormer
It's a census designation ~ and "White, Not Hispanic" is another one.

So, he's not "White, Not Hispanic", which is the ONLY category white folks get in the census. His picture suggests he has a heavy permanent tan!

And EARRINGS dude ~ he has earrings. That's just not normal

61 posted on 03/20/2012 8:08:16 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
Did Eric Holder ever investigate the murder of these 2 WHITE British men by Shawn Tyson

Did the local police fail to arrest Tyson and charge him with murder? I'm failing to see the similarity.

62 posted on 03/20/2012 8:08:50 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: marktwain
'That Zimmerman was bleeding from the face and the back of the head shows that Trayvon was a threat.

That's all subjective. We don't know if that blood on Mr.Zimmerman's face and back is from Mr. Martin. We don't know all the details. Did the police conduct a investigation with photos of Mr. Zimmerman. Did the EMT treat Mr. Zimmerman.

Simply saying that because 'blood' was on Mr. Zimmerman proved that Mr. Martin was a treat; it proves nothing. Only that 'blood' was on him.

63 posted on 03/20/2012 8:08:56 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs

Under growing public pressure, the Department of Justice announced Monday that it would conduct a review of the case, but added the qualification that the “government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids.”

Complicating matters, Florida state law allows a person the right to stand their ground and use deadly force if they feel threatened. The Justice Department recognized that, stating that “negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws.”

The federal government can’t prosecute Zimmerman for murder or manslaughter, so any prosecution for civil rights violations must prove Zimmerman took Martin’s life because of prejudice.

Zimmerman’s family denied he is a racist.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57400609/feds-face-challenges-in-trayvon-martin-case/


64 posted on 03/20/2012 8:09:40 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Talisker; Gunslingr3
The deal is he was in a car; then he got out of the car and shot the kid.

We know that from Zimmerman's own call to 911.

He has an earring!

65 posted on 03/20/2012 8:10:11 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs

This is a senseless tragedy that resulted in the death of a child. Please don’t try to make into something political.


66 posted on 03/20/2012 8:12:14 PM PDT by NMCicero
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To: kcvl
BTW, Florida's "stand your ground" law applies to the victim ~ his name is Martin. He is black. He stood his ground and was shot by Zimmerman.

Martin had no weapon and was much smaller and weaker.

The "stand your ground" law pretty much works against Zimmerman.

67 posted on 03/20/2012 8:12:42 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: yarddog
It was a Kel-Tec so the slide may have over ran the top one in the magazine without moving it. I have no personal experience but have heard they were not reliable.

Kel-Tec pistols are highly reliable.

They are most often used as backups.

Thus are by definition very reliable.


68 posted on 03/20/2012 8:13:06 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Theoria
Put it this way ~ when Zimmerman shot Martin at point blank range there was some blowback of blood all over Zimmerman. It dripped down even the back of his head.

Probably nailed the kid in the heart ~ but we don't know what the autopsy was. No doubt we will find out when Court TV covers this one.

69 posted on 03/20/2012 8:15:26 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

That is good to hear. I had thought about getting a Kel-Tec as the price is good but had heard they were unreliable.

Now if a couple more will verify that, I just might go shopping.


70 posted on 03/20/2012 8:17:15 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Gunslingr3
He can be prosecuted if he was trying to unlawfully detain the guy but I wasn't there so I won't judge him or question his right to defend himself. The 911 call from Zimmerman supposedly tells a different story. Some reports say the kid came at Zimmerman and that he did have injuries. I don't think that either of us were there so we should refrain from starting a Lynch mob or declaring him guilty. There will be enough of that from the poverty pimps and the media. Lets let the local grand jury do their job without a race-riot pressuring them to indict.
71 posted on 03/20/2012 8:17:36 PM PDT by BOBWADE (RINOs suck)
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To: cport
It's not clear that Zimmerman was part of an authorized "Neighborhood Watch" organization. More like he's just out at night with a gun.

There are such folks ~ they aren't all nice guys.

There was some discussion today of OTHER MURDERS that followed this same pattern in that area, so there may be a lot more going on here than we know about at this time.

72 posted on 03/20/2012 8:18:35 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

There is a campaign against Zimmerman (which includes MSM & political operatives) behind this the same as it was against Rush. That is all they know how to do is to be “ outraged” about something (anything) that keeps them behind a computer screen and FROM A JOB!

There is even a petition on change.org ( I thought belonged to Obama) to get Zimmerman arrested and charged. So much for a responsible news media that reports ONLY THE FACTS. I have yet to find any without an opinion against Zimmerman.

Oh, yeah, and the Congrssional Black Caucus (not unlike the Congrssional White Caucus/s) is pushing for Zimmerman’s head (without any facts as usual)!


73 posted on 03/20/2012 8:19:42 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: muawiyah

The kid was casing houses for a later burglary if he really was looking into houses at night. That would be the best time to find houses with big HD TV’s which is what thieves want.


74 posted on 03/20/2012 8:20:01 PM PDT by lodi90
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http://www.insideedition.com/news/7865/more-insight-into-the-neighborhood-watch-member-that-shot-and-killed-an-unarmed-teen.aspx

The neighborhood crime watch volunteer who shot an unarmed teenager dead, made dozens of frivolous 911 calls in the months before the shooting.

46 calls were made over just 12 months and many were reportedly about black youths, who like Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman claimed were suspicious.

George Zimmerman: “There’s two suspicious characters that came to my neighborhood. I’ve no idea what they’re doing. They are just hanging out, loitering.”
911 operator: “Can you describe the two individuals?”
Zimmerman: “Two African-American males.”

Then this call:

Zimmerman: “This gentleman was walking in the neighborhood I’ve seen before on trash days, going around picking up trash. I don’t know what his deal is.”
911 operator: “White, Black or Hispanic?”
Zimmerman: “Black.”

No call was too trivial to make and police responded every time to the quiet gated community outside Orlando, Florida.

Zimmerman called 911 once and reported, “Somebody did leave their garage door open.”

He called another time and said, “The kids in the neighborhood have gotten accustomed to playing in the street. They play in the street and they just run out in front of cars.”

Chris Tutko is the National Sheriff’s Association’s Director of Neighborhood Watch. He said Zimmerman is a case study in what not to do.

INSIDE EDITION’s Paul Boyd asked Tutko, “George Zimmerman was making calls about garage doors being open or people loitering, what’s the threshold for calling law enforcement?”

Tutko responded, “This is a common sense organization. Common sense tells you if you call eight times and eight times they come and eight times they don’t have anything to do, what’s going to happen the ninth time?”

He also said that neighborhood watch volunteers should never be armed.

“I know of no neighborhood watch group that would allow a person to go out carrying a weapon,” said Tutko.

Meanwhile, Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend is coming forward. She says she was on the phone with him when he was first confronted by Zimmerman and she overheard what happened.

“He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. Trayvon said, ‘What are you following me for?’ Then the man said, ‘What are you doing around here?’ Then somebody pushed Trayvon because the headset fell,” explained Martin’s girlfriend.

Sheryll Underwood wept on The Talk as the latest developments were discussed, and Aisha Tyler was forthright about what she believes happened.

“This is a guy who is waiting for crime at every corner. He is waiting to use his gun,” said Tyler.

With public outrage building, the lawyer for Trayvon Martin’s family is calling for George Zimmerman’s immediate arrest.

Martin’s lawyer said, “Arrest George Zimmerman for the killing of Trayvon Martin in cold blood, today!”


75 posted on 03/20/2012 8:20:26 PM PDT by snowstorm12
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To: muawiyah
And EARRINGS dude ~ he has earrings. That's just not normal

From his photo, it can only be said that he has an earring in his left ear.

That may only mean that he has rounded Cape Horn, eastabout, under sail.

76 posted on 03/20/2012 8:20:39 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: muawiyah
Oh, no doubt. As the riots rip across Orlando, I'll be hearing all about the details.

Seriously. I'm really surprised that the police didn't take the guy to the local station and had a little Q&A. Just to cover their ass. Not only would it have justified their cool CSI equipment, it would justify purchasing new stuff if they didn't have any. But more so, look boys we have some extra overtime!

77 posted on 03/20/2012 8:23:18 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: marktwain

Keltec 9 (FP-9 and the -11 both have long creepy trigger pulls. Double action only with striker.

If you fire (as many as you want) and leave one in the chamber - then insert a new - and full magazine, you will the situation reported. Toss the ‘used’ mag into the bushes, trash, whatever.

Easy to to do if the cops aren’t looking real hard.


78 posted on 03/20/2012 8:24:12 PM PDT by ASOC (What are you doing now that Mexico has become OUR Chechnya?)
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To: marktwain

Also, who takes orders from a 911 operator?


79 posted on 03/20/2012 8:25:16 PM PDT by Royal Wulff
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To: marktwain

Not knowing anything about a Kel Tel 9, but, assuming a semi-auto, there should have been another round in the chamber. Unless, it malfunctioned or he had only one round on an empty mag.


80 posted on 03/20/2012 8:26:28 PM PDT by depressed in 06 (6 November, 2012, the day our embarrassment is sent back to Kenya.)
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To: marktwain

“That Zimmerman was bleeding from the face and the back of the head shows that Trayvon was a threat.”

When did Trayvon lose HIS right to defend himself against some self appointed neighborhood watch zealot? According to neighbors, he would circle the block for hours “patrolling”. Police say he called 911 something like 30 times a few nights.
And when on the line with police,, he disregarded instructions to stop following him. He exits his car and starts a confrontation.
He was the aggressor.

Futhermore, the kid doesnt seem to have any shady background that ive seen.
The kid walking down the sidewalk clearly had a right to defend himself against this menace. And for icing on the cake,, how about that muttering about how they always get away woth it)

The best to say about Zimmerman is that he was a cop wannabe goober who was trying to be a hero. Now he gets the other sode of the cop thing. One bad judgement in the dark, and they can face years in prison.


81 posted on 03/20/2012 8:26:57 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

To: yarddog
That is good to hear. I had thought about getting a Kel-Tec as the price is good but had heard they were unreliable.

Now if a couple more will verify that, I just might go shopping.

Google {cops & Kel-Tec P3AT}

Eight rounds of .380 ACP; 10 oz fully loaded.

It is always in the back pocket of
my jeans in a pocket holster.


83 posted on 03/20/2012 8:27:56 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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Comment #84 Removed by Moderator

To: BushCountry

“I heard that the hooded black boy attacked the Hispanic man before the shot was fired. “

Hear that from Zimmerman? Cause the kid can’t tell us. But even if Zimmerman was acting with the purest of motives,, it does not matter. If I am innocently walking down the sidewalk, and some neighborhood volunteer exits with a gun and starts challenging me, or trying to detain me,, i retain every right to defend myself. So did this kid. Maybe he decided he couldnt outrun the car, so he decided to stand and fight.
Zimmerman was 24 and about twice the size of this kid.
Good for that kid if he was able to get a few punches in on this bully. Too bad he lost his life.


85 posted on 03/20/2012 8:32:41 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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Comment #86 Removed by Moderator

To: marktwain

“Zimmerman had as much right to be in that public space as Martin did.”

Sure did. But say you are in a grocery store,,and some “Zimmerman” decides you are a shoplifter. And say that you are utterly innocent. The guy is 100% wrong about you. He calls the cops, etc,,, all fine.
But if decides to confront you and detain you,, you have every right to ignore him, not cooperate, and physically resist any attemot he makes to keep you from leaving.

Where the heck does everyone get the idea that anyone owes the slightest deference to some neighborhood watch guy living out his cop fantasy? Cops confront you, yes, you have to cooperate. Anyone else,, you can ignore them.

PS,,(if they will allow you to, unlike Zimmerman)


87 posted on 03/20/2012 8:39:42 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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The Young Turks with Cenk Uygur

In 911 call, does George Zimmerman call Trayvon Martin a ‘f***ing coon’?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdiMT4DB0As


88 posted on 03/20/2012 8:40:01 PM PDT by snowstorm12
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To: DesertRhino
When did Trayvon lose HIS right to defend himself against some self appointed neighborhood watch zealot?

He doesn't. As I said, the question is who started the physical altercation? Zimmerman says it was Trayvon.

Zimmerman had every right to be in the same public places that Trayvon Martin did.

Zimmerman had every right not to be attacked.

I do not believe that you think that being a public spirited citizen gives other people the right to attack and try to kill you.

As the police have said, the physical evidence is consistent with Zimmerman's account of the shooting as self defense.

Could it be different? It is possible, but I have not seen the evidence of it yet.

89 posted on 03/20/2012 8:44:10 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Zimmerman was justified in using deadly force according to Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law because Martin was on top of him beating him in the face.

According to this eye witness quoted in this article Zimmerman was getting the worst of it and calling for help once the fighting started so he used his weapon under the Stand Your Ground Law,

“The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, ‘Help! Help!’ and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911,” said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

“And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.”

Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

That is why the cops didnt arrest him at the scene after hearing this witness account, observing his bloody nose and his bleeding from the back of he head. Considering that he had a concealed carry permit, was injured in the scuffle and reasonably thought that Martin was a criminal, the cops had to let him go.

Yet these facts are totally censored from the public in almost all of the “reporting” by the Corrupt Liberal Media.

The cops let him go after cuffing him when the local prosecutors said there was no case for manslaughter

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlandowesh-16122564/sanford-police-speak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html

Besides Martin is not the angelic 12 year old pictured in almost all the news stories but was almost 18, six foot three, and had been suspended from High School in Miami so he went to Sanford to visit his dad.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/neighborhood-watchman-killed-trayvon-martin-ignored-neighborhood-watch-photo-201122767—abc-news.html


90 posted on 03/20/2012 8:46:16 PM PDT by Uncle Lonny
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To: Melas

“That’s physically impossible. You cannot fire a round from a semi-automatic pistol and still have a full magazine.”

It’s actually a reasonably common failure. A round gets chambered. At some point during gun handling, the magazine release is bumped or pushed. The magazine slightly dislodges. IT can appear to be seated, but it is not.

When the chambered round is fired, the mag is not high enough to strip off the next round.
The chamber will now be empty, and you will have a full mag. If you stayed in the fight,, you would next pull the trigger on an empty chamber.

It happens from fiddling with the gun a lot,, a poor carry system, or as the result of a struggle. The most common way it happens is that someone chambers a round for carry,, then removes the mag to “top off” the one they just stripped away. When they replace the mag back into the gun, they don’t seat it right.
It’s enough of a problem that rubber “magazine bumpers” are a very common accessory.


91 posted on 03/20/2012 8:50:30 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: snowstorm12
Although some neighbors say that Zimmerman’s efforts prevented crimes, others, particularly blacks, complained about his tactics.

Telling.

You have a handpicked LEO saying his actions are "frivolous" such as reporting an open garage door (I'd say thanks) and then out of the other side of their mouths we are supposed to report everything we see once they arrive AFTER a crime. Our crime watch liason says call in anything that is out of sorts.

Kids in the street? We had that problem too, 'cept these "kids" are 15-18 yrs old and give hostile looks to you when they have to get out of the way of your car. It's all about reclaiming your neighborhood, they think the streets are theirs. And then YOUR property follows.

I'd like to know the crime stats in that neighborhood before and after the watch started.

92 posted on 03/20/2012 8:51:09 PM PDT by cport (How can political capital be spent on a bunch of ingrates)
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To: Uncle Lonny

Divide and conquer.

The fake story about Rush’s comments and the “war on women.”

Then this Hispanic (half Jewish / half Cuban) guy is called white and all of the facts rewritten.

Why?

Get the base motivated and mad.

Big black turnout and women voting for Rats is their gameplan. Media follows the party line.


93 posted on 03/20/2012 8:53:25 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Uncle Lonny

Any reports on why he was suspended?


94 posted on 03/20/2012 8:55:04 PM PDT by cport (How can political capital be spent on a bunch of ingrates)
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To: Dudoight

“Zimmerman is a wannabe stud hero. He needs to prosecuted to the full extent of the law.”

You are probably correct, but is there a law in Florida against being a “wannabe stud hero”?


95 posted on 03/20/2012 8:55:10 PM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Talisker

“So where’s you logic, based on what facts?”

How about that Zimmerman was tape recorded, stalking him,, pissed off that the “assholes always get away” and there’s in not the slightest evidence that the kid was doing anything wrong, or seeking a confrontation.

Where is your evidence that the kid did anything other than defend himself against a bully? Anything shady in the kid’s background?
The neighbors who heard it, and were much closer than you and i, all seem to pretty much agree that Zimm was the aggressor. (even if well meaning in his motives)


96 posted on 03/20/2012 8:57:17 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: cport
Any reports on why he was suspended?

(Prepare to be shocked)

It was for ...... tardiness.

97 posted on 03/20/2012 8:58:56 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: NMCicero

It already is something political. Way too much so. It’s already a “rights violation”. Holder’s getting involved. And a 17 year old isn’t a “child”.


98 posted on 03/20/2012 8:59:21 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: cport

He was late to class too many times or missed school too many times. I can’t remember which.


99 posted on 03/20/2012 8:59:33 PM PDT by snowstorm12
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To: al baby

Kel Tek


100 posted on 03/20/2012 8:59:57 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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