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Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin(FL)
Charleston Conservative Examiner ^ | 21 March, 2012 | Kyle Rogers

Posted on 03/22/2012 4:55:30 AM PDT by marktwain

Last weekend in the city of Chicago alone, gangbangers slaughtered ten people and wounded another forty. The youngest fatality is only six years old. The youngest person wounded is only one-year-old. Many of the victim were pedestrians sprayed with bullets in drive by shootings. The national news has said nothing about this.

So why does one shooting in Florida warrant weeks of national news? Why has there been thousands of articles a day, for the last four days, about one single shooting?

Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written soley from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; fl; georgezimmerman; lies; politicalcorrectness; propaganda; shooting; trayvonmartin
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To: No Surrender No Retreat

Well said...


51 posted on 03/22/2012 6:43:02 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Little Ray

It’s not the crime that matters here - much worse violent crimes have happened around the country in the last few days.

The reason this story is important is it allows elite liberals and journalists an opportunity to express their hatred...

This is a story about two Hispanics - the press is trying to make it black/white... they’re trying to make it left/right. They’re haters. If you have any doubt - watch this video of two journalists talking about conservatives - and how smugly superior liberal elites are... It’s sickening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBFOmUXR080


52 posted on 03/22/2012 6:43:17 AM PDT by GOPJ (Democrat-Media Complex - buried stories and distorted facts... freeper 'andrew' Breitbart)
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To: Little Ray; All
BTW: Did this Trayvon fellow have a prior record?

According to the article Trayvon's family has had an attorney seal his records from the school.

53 posted on 03/22/2012 6:45:19 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: yldstrk
Yes,Zimmerman did do something wrong. He engaged the kid. The popo told him not to.

The transcript of the conversation says otherwise, but you're just not bright enough to figure it out.

-btw you can take your sub-culture street slang and stick it where the sun don't shine.

54 posted on 03/22/2012 6:48:34 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: justice14
Didn’t the black kid have a right to fight back when being followed. He wasn’t doing anything illegal (as said by the police). In his mind he was just being followed by a guy. Who then got out of his car to continue to follow him. Florida law actually would cover the black kid more than it covers Zimmerman. If someone was following my wife like that and then got out of his car and started following her even more. I’d want her to fight back.

Thank you for being someone with sense on this thread. The boy was minding his own business. He was going home after a trip to the store and talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone. He wasn't pursuing Zimmerman. It wasn't until Zimmerman started pursuing him that he tried to get away. Zimmerman saw the results of his own actions as proof of his inaccurate, perhaps drunk, and certainly racist (the a-hole and effing coons comments) imagination.

I've told my kids the first thing they do is to try to get away. Go to somewhere safe. If they cannot do that and someone who is following them closes in, then they are justified in doing whatever they have to do to protect themselves, including physical violence. They have no choice but to assume that such a person poses a risk to their lives and should act accordingly. If the boy had been able to wrest the gun from Zimmerman and had shot him dead, the act would have been deemed one of self-protection and Zimmerman would have been called a fool for disregarding the instructions of 911 personnel, the guidelines of Neighborhood Watch, common sense, and would have been described as his own worst enemy.
55 posted on 03/22/2012 6:50:11 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: marktwain
From the comments at this posts link and the comments here we can see how well the media's agenda has already been implanted for this story.
56 posted on 03/22/2012 6:50:37 AM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: No Surrender No Retreat
Trayvon Martin was not trespassing. Both Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman were legally where they had a right to be.

Trayvon was a stranger to the gated community, but he was invited there by his father who was staying with his girlfriend in the community.

57 posted on 03/22/2012 6:51:09 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Best summary I have read on this came from post 47 on another thread:

“Dude. He killed a kid walking down the street”

Not so. He killed a “kid” who was 6ft 3 and had him down on his back punching him in the face according to an eye witness. Try to keep up.

“Zimmerman was justified in using deadly force according to Florida’s STAND YOUR GROUND LAW because Martin was on top of him beating him in the face.

According to this eye witness quoted in this article Zimmerman was getting the worst of it and calling for help once the fighting started.

“The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, ‘Help! Help!’ and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911,” said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

“And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.”

Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4

That is why the cops didnt arrest him at the scene after hearing this witness account, observing his bloody nose and his bleeding from the back of he head and grass stains on the back of his shirt. Considering that he had a concealed carry permit, was injured in the scuffle, was in fear for his live, and reasonably thought that Martin was a criminal, The cops let him go after cuffing him when the local prosecutors said there was not enough evidence for manslaughter conviction under Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law.

The witness said it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help and police detectives even ran the 9-11 tapes of the screaming by the “kids” father and the father said the screams were NOT from his son.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlandowesh-16122564/sanford-police-speak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html

Besides Martin is not the angelic 12 year old pictured in almost all the news stories but was almost 18, six foot three, and had been suspended from High School in Miami so he went to Sanford to visit his dad. If you listen to the 9-11 tapes, the kid approached Zimmerman when he was sitting in his truck as a possible intimidation tactic. It is also possible that the kid was not a terrified babe in the woods as portrayed but regarded Zimmerman following him as a white man dissing him and he attacked the watch captain without warning.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/neighborhood-watchman-killed-trayvon-martin-ignored-neighborhood-watch-photo-201122767

Granted, Zimmerman was wrong to follow the kid but IF the kid attacked him he is protected from a manslaughter charge by the SYG Law.However,civil lawsuits against him and the housing complex are another matter.

Lets have a Grand Jury review the evidence and then arrest him if the evidence showed he attacked the kid first.

47 posted on Wed Mar 21 2012 14:50:38 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by Uncle Lonny


58 posted on 03/22/2012 6:58:42 AM PDT by An American! (Proud To Be An American!)
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To: aruanan; All
I've told my kids the first thing they do is to try to get away. Go to somewhere safe.

I wish that Trayvon had followed your advise. The altercation occurred less than 100 feet from the residence where he was staying.

Trayvon Martin was 6 foot 3 inches tall and a high school athlete. I think he could have outrun George Zimmerman, who appears a bit overweight.

59 posted on 03/22/2012 6:59:03 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: arbooz

Is that an actual, current picture of Trayvon Martin? If not, this could lead to a lot of trouble for Free Republic.


60 posted on 03/22/2012 7:10:06 AM PDT by Inspectorette
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Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: Flintlock

Yeah it’s to ‘stir up’ Obama’s base. Eric Holder’s ‘people’.


62 posted on 03/22/2012 7:12:28 AM PDT by Freddd (NoPA ngineers.)
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To: justice14

I’d want her to fight back.

so if someone is following behind me down the sidewalk, I’m supposed to fight them?


63 posted on 03/22/2012 7:14:36 AM PDT by Freddd (NoPA ngineers.)
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: marktwain
The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6'2” football player.

Who had done nothing wrong according to police, who had every right to be where he was when he was, who was being aggressively pursued by a stranger at night, a stranger whose intentions he had absolutely no way of knowing, a stranger who would not have provoked a physical altercation with him and would not have shot him had the stranger not actively disregarded instructions by 911 personnel and the tenets of Neighborhood Watch, a stranger whom he could only assume meant him harm, as was proved to have been the case by subsequent events. The big question is why you and others, such as rogue yam, are deliberately overlooking the plain facts of the case and focusing on matters that would not have even come into play had Zimmerman been content to stay in the only role legally open to him, that of observing and reporting (of course, his comments such as "these assholes always get away with it" and "f-cking coons" are a pretty good indication of why he was not so content). Are you guys related to him in some way and attempting to use a public forum to sway a potential jury pool?
65 posted on 03/22/2012 7:16:53 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Freddd
so if someone is following behind me down the sidewalk, I’m supposed to fight them?

That's up to you. Have fun defending yourself when all you say is "they were following me down the sidewalk".

If a car were following my wife, at night. And kept following her. Then when she started to go in a different direction away from the car, the car stops. The guy gets out and continues to follow. Then yes, I'd want my wife to fight back. That scenerio is completely different than "following behind me down the sidewalk".

66 posted on 03/22/2012 7:24:11 AM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: arbooz
I should have said "recent" rather than "current" ;-)

But, just wow! We'll never see that picture in the MSM!!

67 posted on 03/22/2012 7:25:37 AM PDT by Inspectorette
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To: ZX12R

Tawanna Brawley, Part Deux.


68 posted on 03/22/2012 7:25:47 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Kenny Bunk

DA’s are all about one thing; winning. They will not prosecute a case they don’t think they can win. This sounds like way too much of a self defense case for them to overcome. You have witnesses and 911 tapes that are supportive of the shooter. I don’t think this has a chance in court.


69 posted on 03/22/2012 7:27:15 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: bolobaby

nobody died in the white kid on fire case


70 posted on 03/22/2012 7:28:11 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Pilsner

It is not at all clear that Zimmerman started the fight.


71 posted on 03/22/2012 7:33:55 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: GOPJ

Of course they doing that. They find a crime that “fits the narrative” and try to make as much mileage out it as possible - and call the right “vultures” or “racists” if we try to do the same. Owning the MSM is a wonderful thing.

There is a lot worse going on, like the brutal rape/murder of an old woman and the beating of her husband. By a black.

But that doesn’t fit the narrative or serve the totalitarian purpose, so its not news.


72 posted on 03/22/2012 7:35:18 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: yldstrk

How do you know Zimmerman threatened the guy with his gun?

I’ve seen no report indicating that was true.


73 posted on 03/22/2012 7:35:54 AM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: marktwain
If he was afraid of Zimmerman, why didn't he just go inside?

Perhaps Zimmerman prevented him.

Who started the actual confrontation? One’s dead, the other gets to tell his story. The only other evidence is whatever can be extracted from the background noises on the 911 tapes. That and the testimony of one person that she saw a fight with Martin on top of Zimmerman. That may not be enough to settle it definitively.

74 posted on 03/22/2012 7:39:00 AM PDT by Cheburashka (If life hands you lemons, government regulations will prevent you from making lemonade.)
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To: yldstrk

So that’s what determines guilt? Someone dies?

That’s sound logic! Remember: if you get a home invader, you’d better only shoot to maim, or you’ll be the murderer!


75 posted on 03/22/2012 7:44:19 AM PDT by bolobaby
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To: bolobaby

You don’t escalate a fist fight to a gun esp when you outweigh and out age the other guy.


76 posted on 03/22/2012 7:45:50 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: aruanan; All
matters that would not have even come into play had Zimmerman been content to stay in the only role legally open to him, that of observing and reporting

You are simply incorrect in the above statement. Zimmerman was perfectly legal in his following Martin in public areas, and in approaching him and asking questions.

Neighborhood watch manuals are not statutes.

Advice from a dispatcher is not a legally binding order.

The critical question is: Who attacked who? Both parties had committed no crime, and were legally where they had a right to be.

Trayvon Martin was a guest of his father who was staying at his girlfriends house.

George Zimmerman lived in the neighborhood.

77 posted on 03/22/2012 7:46:32 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: arbooz

Oh my.

Al Sharpton and the MSM aren’t going to like this at all.


78 posted on 03/22/2012 7:49:40 AM PDT by reagandemocrat
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Comment #79 Removed by Moderator

To: yldstrk

“You don’t escalate a fist fight to a gun esp when you outweigh and out age the other guy.”

Again, a completely specious argument.

I only weigh about 197, but I’m 6’ 3” and all muscle. I’m ex-military and a natural fighter. I can whoop folks heavier and older than me. I guess that means if I start beating someone heavier and older, they would have no right to defend themselves with whatever means necessary.

How much do you weigh? How old are you? I may be coming for you since you’ve given me a pass! ;-)


80 posted on 03/22/2012 7:55:27 AM PDT by bolobaby
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To: dfwgator
Tawanna Brawley, Part Deux.

Indeed, and they will beat this drum until, once again, something blows up right in their faces. I just hope they don't take it so far, that they whip up violent behavior by large numbers of ignorant people with base instincts, which are prone to, and attracted to, uncivilized conduct.
81 posted on 03/22/2012 7:56:18 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 ! We should take off and Newt washington from orbit.)
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To: bolobaby

yeah, I weigh 98, and I am an ex JAG, female type


82 posted on 03/22/2012 7:57:34 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: ZX12R

Remember how Kristallnacht started, some lowly Nazi emissary gets gunned down in Paris, and then the Nazi Media whipped the German people into a frenzy.


83 posted on 03/22/2012 7:58:31 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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Comment #84 Removed by Moderator

To: Mr. Quarterpanel

“The class that I was in warned that this perceived power could lead to real trouble.

The whole idea of CCW is to protect yourself when accosted. It does not give you license to pursue and engage suspicious persons walking down a public street.

You have that right without a gun so why would you believe you don’t have that right with a gun? You were taught wrong.


85 posted on 03/22/2012 8:00:29 AM PDT by CodeToad (I'm so right-wing if I lifted my left leg I'd go into a spin.)
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To: bolobaby
Again, a completely specious argument.

I only weigh about 197, but I’m 6’ 3” and all muscle. I’m ex-military and a natural fighter. I can whoop folks heavier and older than me. I guess that means if I start beating someone heavier and older, they would have no right to defend themselves with whatever means necessary.


Related: the argument that Trayvon was 6'2". Okay, well, if you're 17, walking at night and in the rain, and your size doesn't keep someone from leaving his car and aggressively pursuing you on foot, then that would make things seem even scarier because you know that the person doesn't consider your size to be a deterrent from whatever he's planning to do. And since he's coming after you under these conditions, you have to assume it's not to offer you the hearty handshake of "welcome to the neighborhood. Let's get together for a coffee."
86 posted on 03/22/2012 8:01:59 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: marktwain

Well, even if he was on the ground getting his ass kicked, that does not resolve the use of deadly force issue - at least I don’t think it does.

If he was the original aggressor (which is at least possible), and if getting his ass kicked was the predictable outcome of his assault, he is not going to get off with self-defense.


87 posted on 03/22/2012 8:04:34 AM PDT by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: yldstrk

“, and had a gun and made threats with it,”

And you KNOW he did that how?? Just mouthing off are ya?


88 posted on 03/22/2012 8:04:42 AM PDT by CodeToad (I'm so right-wing if I lifted my left leg I'd go into a spin.)
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To: aruanan
And since he's coming after you under these conditions, you have to assume it's not to offer you the hearty handshake

Or a laurel, and hardy handshake.

89 posted on 03/22/2012 8:06:11 AM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: marktwain

The media also characterizes Trayvon as a “model student.” In fact, he under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon’s family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next#ixzz1prH3bSO4


90 posted on 03/22/2012 8:06:22 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: arbooz
Some comments here are beginning to resemble HuffPo more and more. Either FR is being infiltrated by the brainless left or the MFM propaganda is finally hitting its target.

You noticed that too, huh? This story is a very good tool for identifying real constitutional conservatives. It's also great for sorting out a garden variety of dumb people.
91 posted on 03/22/2012 8:07:50 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 ! We should take off and Newt washington from orbit.)
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To: marktwain

We’re also learning more about Trayvon Martin. According to reporters he had been suspended from school. The International Business Times says Martin’s suspension was due to last for 10 days. But what exactly was he suspended for in the first place? Sources sympathetic to Martin say he was suspended for “excessive tardiness.” However, a quick review of both the local policies for Martin’s school, the Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School, and of the Miami-Dade school district’s district-wide policies, raise some doubts. According to Miami-Dade policy, in order to get a suspension of 10 days, Martin would have had to either commit “repeated, serious or habitual” acts of the following:

• Cheating/Misrepresentation
• Confrontation with a staff member
• Defiance of school personnel
• Distribution of items or materials that are inappropriate
for an educational setting*
• Failure to comply with previously prescribed corrective
strategies
• False accusation
• Fighting (minor)
• Harassment (non-sexual or isolated)
• Instigative behavior
• Leaving school grounds without permission
• Joining clubs or groups not approved by the School Board
• Libel
• Petty theft (under $300.00)
• Use of profane or provocative language directed at someone
• Prohibited sales on school grounds (other than
controlled substances)
• Possession and/or use of tobacco products
• Slander
• Vandalism (minor)

Or even occasional offenses from the following:
• Assault/Threat against a non-staff member
• Breaking and Entering/Burglary
• Bullying (repeated harassment)*
• Disruption on campus/Disorderly conduct
• Fighting (serious)
• Harassment (Civil Rights)**
• Hazing (misdemeanor)
• Possession or use of alcohol and/or controlled
substances
• Possession of simulated weapons
• Sexual harassment**
• Trespassing
• Vandalism (major)

Or of the following:
• Grand theft (over $300.00)
• Hate crime
• Hazing (felony)
• Motor vehicle theft
• Other major crimes/incidents
• Sale and/or distribution of alcohol and/or controlled substances
• Sex offenses (other) (including possession and/or
distribution of obscene or lewd materials)

Or possibly even of the following, each of which carries a minimum suspension of ten days:

• Aggravated assault
• Aggravated battery against a non-staff member
• Armed robbery
• Arson
• Assault/Threat against M-DCPS employees or persons
conducting official business
• Battery or Aggravated battery against M-DCPS employees
or persons conducting official business*
• Homicide
• Kidnapping/Abduction
• Making a false report/threat against the school*
• Sexual battery
• Possession, use, sale, or distribution of firearms, explosives,
destructive devices, and other weapons.

But whatever the reason, it‘s a case that you’ll probably be hearing more about in the future.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/al-sharpton-dismisses-self-defense-argument-in-shooting-of-teen/


92 posted on 03/22/2012 8:09:17 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: Freddd; justice14

Thanks Freddd, I was thinking the same thing.


93 posted on 03/22/2012 8:09:26 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Jim Noble

do the 911 tapes prove up who started the fight?


94 posted on 03/22/2012 8:11:16 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: kcvl

I don’t see truancy on that list...wasn’t that the original claim? That he had been suspended for truancy?


95 posted on 03/22/2012 8:13:27 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Jim Noble

“if getting his ass kicked was the predictable outcome of his assault, he is not going to get off with self-defense.”

As you implied, just because you attack a person doesn’t then give them the right to use lethal force...that also goes for the kid. If Zimmer thought the kid was using excessive force that was life threatening he then did have cause to use lethal force.


96 posted on 03/22/2012 8:15:15 AM PDT by CodeToad (I'm so right-wing if I lifted my left leg I'd go into a spin.)
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To: yldstrk
nobody died in the white kid on fire case

Oh, well never mind then !

97 posted on 03/22/2012 8:17:30 AM PDT by tomkat (FU.baraq)
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To: justice14
If someone was following my wife like that and then got out of his car and started following her even more. I’d want her to fight back.

One major problem with your statement. If your wife started fighting back she would actually be starting a fight. She would be the aggressor.

98 posted on 03/22/2012 8:18:46 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: Inspectorette
Is that an actual, current picture of Trayvon Martin? If not, this could lead to a lot of trouble for Free Republic.

I agree. It should be deleted if it's not him.
99 posted on 03/22/2012 8:21:56 AM PDT by Deo volente (God willing, America will survive this Obamination.)
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To: marktwain
"So why does one shooting in Florida warrant weeks of national news? Why has there been thousands of articles a day, for the last four days, about one single shooting?" ... Um, someone has not been paying attention tot he 'Chicago Way' gansta thuggery now running the federal oligarchy. Little barry bastard is from Chicago, and the machine from Chicago (including Axelgreasy) keeps the bastard in power by herding the sheeple media in any direction it selects. When will we the people grow tired of this charade? ... Sadly, it appears we the people are merely 'bread and circus' rats.
100 posted on 03/22/2012 8:24:09 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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