Posted on 03/22/2012 9:03:25 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
Ever since his CPAC Keynote Address in 2010, Rep. Allen West (R-FL) has been one of the gold standards of modern American political conservatism. He has also been widely hailed as a political model for conservative African American politicians. And now, following recent revelations surrounding the highly suspicious shooting of Trayvon Martin, Rep. West has joined a growing bipartisan consensus calling for the case to be reopened, possibly even with Federal assistance. West’s statement, put out today by Talking Points Memo, resonates with controlled fury (emphasis added):
itself in Sanford, Florida involving the shooting of 17-year-old Treyvon Martin. First of all, if all that has been reported is accurate, the Sanford Police Chief should be relieved of his duties due to what appears to be a mishandling of this shooting in its early stages. The US Navy SEALS identified Osama Bin Laden within hours, while this young man laid on a morgue slab for three days. The shooter, Mr Zimmerman, should have been held in custody and certainly should not be walking free, still having a concealed weapons carry permit. From my reading, it seems this young man was pursued and there was no probable cause to engage him, certainly not pursue and shoot him….against the direction of the 911 responder. Let’s all be appalled at this instance not because of race, but because a young American man has lost his life, seemingly, for no reason. I have signed a letter supporting a DOJ investigation. I am not heading to Sanford to shout and scream, because we need the responsible entities and agencies to handle this situation from this point without media bias or undue political influences. This is an outrage.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
Hate to jump into a good argument and all, but there is another key point to all this that is being roundly ignored.
If you are part of a neighborhood watch, you must have some knowledge of what you can, can’t, should, and shouldn’t do when you actually exercise your “duties” as a member of such.
This is doubly true if you happen to have a CCW or are otherwise armed. With carrying a weapon comes GREAT responsibility.
I don’t know what happened, exactly, in this case. I don’t know who took the first swing, who started what, etc. I frankly don’t care. What matters is this situation escalated way beyond what it should have because Zimmerman apparently got cocky due to the presence of a sidearm on his person.
Before anyone jumps me for attacking Zimmerman or claiming he should be arrested and strung-up from the highest tree, forget it. That’s not at all what I’m saying.
You can’t don that weapon and don a new personality a la Bronson’s character Paul Kersey in the “Death Wish” films or a Dirty Harry. Inexperienced, insecure people can find it way too easy to slip into such a mindset when armed....and that is a recipe for disaster, as it was here.
Zimmerman may very well have been within his rights to shoot the kid. I don’t know. All I do know is he never should have put himself and the kid in such a volatile and highly dangerous situation in the first place.
A weapon is a last resort tool. You pull it....you use it, period. No warning shots. You pull, you shoot, you aim to kill.
Unless you’re prepared to do that, one should never deliberately allow a situation to escalate (WHEN you can possibly avoid such) to the point where you have, in this case, a dead teenager, a probably decent man whose life is now in tatters, and a**hole black racists screaming for whitey’s blood all over the country.
It could have been handled better, it should have been handled better. I hope we all learn one hell of a valuable lesson from this.
Pardon the length of my rant, guys; I just feel very strongly about this.
As I stated, there’s conflicting information. What is accurate and what is not needs to be determined. What people state on this thread isn’t evidence. The “evidence” some want to use to suggest that the facts are all in is hardly sufficient. I’ve not found any credible “facts” which have definitively shown who initiated the confrontation between the two persons invovled. If I initiate a confrontation with another person, who begins to beat me, do I not bear responsibility at any level for what happens?
You’ve presented a reasoned position IMHO.
Sounds a lot different than...
Local authorities did a lousy job of investigating the incident, and there needs to be a thorough and unbiased investigation.
180 degrees different.
I hate to school you (not really), but sarcasm can be, has been, and often is used as an argument. Considering the fact you are seemingly unaware of this, I’d say you should refer to your own history of posting for evidence of that weak mind. Now bug off and stop trolling.
It appears likely he never pulled the weapon out until he was being beaten about the head by Martin, while Zimmerman was on his back.
The preliminary report also noted Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head and stated Zimmerman while being medically treated on scene stated, "I was yelling for someone to help, but no one would help me".
Read the last page of the police report. The handgun was taken as evidence.
No.
Depends on what you mean by “initiate a confrontation”. If I walk up to you and say “hey buddy! I don’t much care for the way you dress yourself!” and you physically attack me, knock me to the ground and beat me about the head and face, am I not justified in using force to stop your attack? Did I “have it coming”?
Is that what happened in this case? Would it not be prudent to keep the discussion to the issue instead of contriving an apple to compare to an orange?
I guess I'll have to school you. My sarcasm wasn't framed as an argument. I thought that was obvious.
Obtuse too! You don’t have much to work with, do you. That’s just sad.
You are emotionally hysterical and so blinded that you can't see the plain facts in front of your face. I will make one more attempt and then I give up.
There is absolutely ZERO evidence that Mr. Zimmerman initiated any contact with Mr. Martin. None - and I defy you to provide any such evidence. In fact, the evidence clearly shows Mr. Zimmerman did exactly what he was supposed to do which is inform the police and wait for their assistance. He did start to follow him when he ran, but when told it wasn't necessary by the police he said OKAY and stopped.
I don't know how much plainer it can be and why you are so obtuse. Do you really have that much trouble admitting that you got caught up in the hype and may have misjudged the situation?
Obtuse was post #2.
You could very well be right; I don’t know. Still, it doesn’t argue against my key point. Zimmerman DID allow the situation to get out of hand, to escalate way beyond what it should have.
I won’t claim to be the expert here on Neighborhood Watch procedures; far from it. All I know is....if you have a weapon strapped to your body and you go out to reconnoiter, guard, protect, watch, whatever you want to call it....be very, VERY careful. Keep your distance, use that cell phone, press 911 if necessary, and be prepared to protect yourself, others, etc. until the cops come...but do not deliberately insert yourself into a confrontation where someone could get killed.
Someone got killed here.
He makes more sense you than you and his analogy at #149 is very likely close what occurred, based on what is being reported.
“very little is being said about Martin and whether he has had some prior run ins with the law or school authorities.”
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Trayvon Martin had no arrest record or disciplinary action for violence as a student in North Miami’s Krop High School.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136&page=2
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I can understand why Zimmerman was suspicious of Trayvon. The kid is visiting, so he isn’t a familiar resident to Zimmerman. It is 7:11 pm when Zimmerman first calls police about Trayvon (sunset that day was at 6:22, so it was headed on dark-o-clock) It also had been raining off and on from about 3pm that afternoon.
It was raining and almost dark when an unknown person is walking around this gated community. Zimmerman notices him and starts following, Trayvon notices Zimmerman and pulls his hoodie up. That, too, would create more suspicion for Zimmerman, not less.
Trayvon is meandering and talking to his girlfriend on the phone (call started at 7:12), which Zimmerman apparently mistook as Trayvon scoping out homes and maybe being ‘drugged up’.
What is confusing is we know Trayvon went to the 7-11 and had an Arizonia Iced Tea, Skittles and a phone. He also pulls his hoodie up (needs hands for that). At one point Zimmerman says Trayvon has his hands in his waistband. OK, maybe the phone is in his pocket and we know he has a headset. Where’s the tea and Skittles, in his hoodie through-pocket? Then what was whatever he had in his hand that Zimmerman mentions? All that doesn’t make sense to me. Or at least I can’t quite work it out in my mind.
BUT, I do believe it is Trayvon that initiates the confrontation. Trayvon asks “What are you following me for?” Then Zimmerman asks “ What are you doing here?” —no reply, a fight ensues but the girlfriend can’t see who starts it....
“Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for?’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here?’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.”
Then the line went dead, she said.
Actually, you are the one who is emotional and histerical and blinded. Facts? Such as, the 17 year old was not engaged in any criminal behavior? Facts? Such as Zimmerman, on the 911 logs, stated he was following the 17 year old (by way of leaving his truck). Facts? Such as the police dispatch told Zimmerman he did NOT need to follow the 17 year old? Are those the FACTS you're speaking of? Or, do you have some facts that no one else in the world has or have reported which definitively demonstrated who initiated the confrontation? That is the most important element from what I can tell. Who is responsible for initiating the physical confrontation which led to Zimmerman shooting the 17 year old? Why is it wrong to want to know that one piece of information which has not been established?
It was speculation and a hunch.
I figure Martin would not have started beating him about the head while Zimmerman was on his back, if Zimmerman already had the weapon in his hand to begin with. That would seem very unlikely. Hence, he likely pulled and shot Martin while calling for help as he was being being beaten.
Agree, Zimmerman probably should have kept his distance, but I understand, Martin approached Zimmerman. Again, Martin likely would not have approached/attacked Zimmerman if Zimmerman already had the gun in his hand. This would seem very unlikely.
Just a hunch.
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