Skip to comments.Gingrich says Fla. shooter found "dangerous" hobby
Posted on 03/23/2012 12:41:21 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
WASHINGTON (AP) - Republican presidential contender Newt Gingrich calls the shooting death of a black Florida teen "a tragedy" and describes the man responsible as "a guy who'd found a hobby that's very dangerous."
George Zimmerman was part of a neighborhood watch group.
(Excerpt) Read more at njherald.com ...
The only two sites that I’ve had time to look at cite his vote on each of these bills, again attached to Omnibus spending, and they take an EXTREME view of total “hands off” of guns. And they each seem to have a duplicating agenda because they have links to the video of Nancy and Newt on the couch, as if that bolsters their gun argument.
So, if you are saying that voting for the Omnibus bill proves that Newt is anti-gun then that means that Santorum supports Planned Parenthood because Title 10 was attached to an Omnibus that HE voted for.
Santorum has just declared that Zimmerman has committed a heinous crime.
At least Newt isnt being judge and jury.
New said the man was likely in violation of “the stand you’re ground” law.
I suppose there were some minutemen in 1775 that had a dangerous hobby too.
My spouse is a former cop at the federal level(Justice Dept)
We were in neighborhood watch before when we lived In VA and SC-we didn't parole the block intimating people and acting as though, we were God Almighty or living the wild wild west. We reported to the police, they came out to help us. (Not talking about home invasion/protecting one's life and family etc) Not being obsessed. This man's former history says a lot. I think Newt was kind to say it was a hobby. The case has to be investigated and this man's past will be taken into account. Lord, people, he's not after guns and he's not a progression (from Beck's tirades) You have to have a form of government. Newt cut programs. Others grew the government along with Bush. after Newt left, the Bush people came in with compassionate spending. Proves once again, people don't understand most issues. This case shows the guy went too far. You know-some people do. Doesn't make all gun owners fit into this picture.
Because that’s the Alinsky way. Mischaracterizations & innuendo.
I hope these are Mittbots. I’d hate to think Santorum people are stooping to this.
Have any of them been active military besides Ron Paul?
That is a bogus article clearly intended as a hit piece. The only ‘evidence’ shown in the guy’s article was Gingrich voting on an agreement of some conference report not any outright ban.
On the “Gingrich Favors Handgun Ban for Domestic Abuse Convicts” although he felt that this was a reasonable measure in the same news paper article I read reporting this position said that he was for repealing the ban on assault weapons which is clearly not a position of someone against guns.
Newt has addressed the NRA’s yearly meetings twice that I’ve found with full support from them. So unless they’ve gone political it’s clear that Gingrich is pro guns.
In his latest speech to them he even makes the bold statement that the right to owning guns is not about hunting or target practice but about defending yourself from oppression whether it be from criminals OR the government.
I think he understands clearly what the fundamental right of gun ownership is all about.
Hey Newt, Don’t you think being a serial adulterer could be considered a “dangerous hobby” as well?
Zimmerman had been told by the police dispatcher not to follow Martin any more but to let the police take over (they were on their way).
Some of the people who get involved in neighborhood watch programs are what the police call “buffs” - that is, they’re wanna-be cops who were unable to get onto the force because they couldn’t pass the physical or the psychological or some other test. For them, it’s like playing cop.
I don’t know what happened at the end, but if Zimmerman had done what he was told to do by the police - that is, stopped following Martin - none of this would have happened. His only job was to report it to the police and let them take it from there.
Another clueless, useless moron weighs in.
Shut the **** up, Newt,
Stay classy TJ!
Et tu, Noot?
Stay classy, chris.
I dont know what happened at the end, but if Zimmerman had done what he was told to do by the police - that is, stopped following Martin - none of this would have happened. His only job was to report it to the police and let them take it from there.”
I don’t know exactly what happened either, and it’s very hard to make sense of reading the Zimmerman/Martin threads. So much emotion and speculation.
“Have any of them been active military besides Ron Paul?”
Palin - no
Jindal - no
DeMint - no
Daniels - no (lawyer)
Barbour - no (lawyer)
Pawlenty - no (lawyer)
Trump - no
Giuliani - no (lawyer)
Bachmann - no (lawyer)
Cain - no
Perry - yes
Huntsman - no
Gingrich - no
Santorum - no (lawyer)
Romney - no (lawyer)
Paul - yes
If you require/want military then just two to pick from; Perry and Paul
Say No to Lawyers!
Yes, dangerous for criminals. The more I learn about Trayvon the more I’m convinced that he was a bad actor.
I don't know how Newt meant the appellation, "dangerous hobby." It is not supposed to be dangerous or a hobby.
>> if you decide to check out post 15, you might get some truth
I read the link you referenced. Actually I had already read it before my last reply. Smelled like a big plop of agenda-driven bovine excrement to me.
Vigilantism as a hobby? Really?
I'm getting tired of this Trayvon case. Based on the evidence, this WAS self-defense. The MSM is leaving out some VERY convenient facts!
Trying, can’t. Living in a country full of fools is taking its toll.
FR in November 2011
>> Vigilantism as a hobby? Really?
Not in the hobby lobby sense; I took it as tongue-in-cheek. But then I *understood* immediately what he *meant*, because I don’t have a hair trigger cocked to find some evil malignant intent in every word that rolls from his lips. Know what I mean?
Old news. Nearly TWO DECADES old news. You’ll have to do better.
So who’s better for gun rights?
Nanny pansy Santorum? ROFL
Get real, dude.
I personally didn’t take his intent as such. My mind immediately went to gun ownership.
The record on this incident is pretty clear: the guy was on a personal errand, was carrying his firearm, contacted the police about a suspicious person. At some point he got out of his car, but he was attacked. The guy was bloodied up and had obviously been on the ground. His shirt was stained from the grass, and he was wet. It really does sound like he was attacked.
Regardless of what actually happened, this is the story he gave the cops and the story that’s on record. Zimmerman did one thing right: dead men tell no tales.
>> I personally didnt take his intent as such. My mind immediately went to gun ownership.
Depends on how you’re primed, I guess.
>> At some point he got out of his car, but he was attacked.
You’re leaving out the part where he hassled the guy in the hoodie. Also the several calls between him and 911 dispatch. Why?
>> It really does sound like he was attacked.
Huh? He was in his car, the other guy was walking. Explain to me just how that “attack” happened.
It sounds to me like Zimmermann was in an altercation that he provoked. The other guy had no weapon, no drugs, wasn’t drunk, no stolen goods, and a plausible reason for exercising his own personal freedom walking to the store. He was CARRYING stuff he BOUGHT at the store, for goodness’ sake — just like his witness said. (not my opinion, but FACTS as I have heard them).
I’m 100% in favor of gun rights, carry (open, concealed, constitutional, whatever we can get) but you CANNOT defend indefensible uses of firearms to harm someone and expect no backlash. I’m treading carefully on this one.
You’re obviously a victim of the MSM’s convenient omission of facts.
Zimmerman’s only crime was getting out of his truck to confront the kid. It’s been in the upper 60s with near 70% humidity in the overnight hours here in FL. There’s NO reason for someone to have on a hoodie. I sweat just wearing a tee-shirt.
When the police arrived, Zimmerman had several wounds to his face and was wet from rolling in the grass with the perp. Regardless of the verity of his claims, the police filed it as a case of self-defense.
Listen, I’m not defending this guy, I’m simply pointing out that the MSM is only giving you the parts of the story they want you to hear.
RESEARCH THE WHOLE STORY BEFORE DRAWING CONCLUSIONS!
An instructor of mine in the past gave me some advice on carrying concealed:
“Shooting someone in self-defense means that your life is on the line 3 times: the initial confrontation, under investigation by the police, and at a trial, if applicable.”
His advice to the class: shoot to kill, not to wound. Dead men tell no tales.
Thank you for full disclosure. Gun owners, and fans, I note, are all for Zimmerman.
If you’ve ever had to defend yourself or your family with a firearm, you would understand. I’ve been in a self-defense firearm situation twice in my life, and it is by far the most terrifying, life altering experience I’ve ever faced. I pray I never have to do it again. It changes your world view. You watch out behind you. You’re aware of everything. You’re overly cautious in many cases.
Unless you’ve worn the shoes, you can’t possibly know how this man felt at the time nor how he feels now.
>> Youre obviously a victim of the MSMs convenient omission of facts... RESEARCH THE WHOLE STORY BEFORE DRAWING CONCLUSIONS!
I *have* been researching. Most of the MSM reports lately aren’t on the crime at all, but rather on the outrage around it.
Here are the facts I have managed to tease out of the information on the Interwebz. tell me which of these facts you dispute.
— Martin had no criminal record. Zimmermann had been charged with battery on a police officer, as well as a domestic violence charge.
— Martin was unarmed at the time of his death. Zimmermann was carrying a loaded handgun, which he used to kill Martin.
— Martin’s girlfriend was on the phone with him around the time of the attack. She said he had gone to the store for snacks.
— Martin was carrying snacks when he was killed.
— Martin was on foot and Zimmerman was in a car. At some point for some reason Zimmermann got out of the car in the proximity of Martin.
— If Zimmermann had not gotten out of his car, it was physically impossible for Martin to attack him or even to provoke an altercation — this is just common sense.
— Zimmermann was an enthusiastic neighborhood watch participant
— Zimmermann called 911 to report Martin as a suspicious person
Note that I have not included in the above ONE opinion, or ANY hearsay, or ANY MSM conclusion, or any of the questionable testimony — much of which ALSO implicates zimmermann, although some of it is conflicting or uncorroborated.
So: maybe YOU can roll all this up and conclude that Martin was in the wrong and Zimmermann was justified in killing him. I’d have to suspend a LOT of disbelief and ignore a LOT of simple explanations in favor of some tortured, convoluted ones to conclude the same thing.
>> Theres NO reason for someone to have on a hoodie. I sweat just wearing a tee-shirt.
Regardless of your own clothing tastes and comfort level:
Is it illegal to wear a hoodie?
Is there any evidence WHATSOEVER that Martin had committed a crime, or was about to, and that wearing the hoodie was relevant to that crime?
I’m only trying to figure out where the divide lies in these very ugly confrontations on this forum.
>> Gun owners, and fans, I note, are all for Zimmerman.
I’m a gun owner, gun fan, and strong believer in concealed and open carry and castle doctrine and stand your ground self defense.
I am for the TRUTH, not “for zimmermann” or “for martin”. But from what I have heard, I am having a hard time believing that Martin’s killing was justified.
I DO NOT WANT TO GIVE BACK any of the progress we have made in securing our constitutional 2nd amendment rights I wnat to secure them even FURTHER — and vigilantism threatens that.
Well, as I said, I was trying to pinpoint the dividing line, and I thought it might have been between too enthusiastic gun owners (like presumably Zimmerman, who is no question an enthusiastic, if not very effective, crime preventer - 40 recent burglaries in the community he “patrolled” is his success record) and others. But I don’t know if that line can be easily determined.
I always chuckle when the priors come out. There's an 11 year difference in age here. The kid has no published criminal record, as he's a minor. We don't know what priors, if any, he might have had.
Martin was unarmed at the time of his death. Zimmermann was carrying a loaded handgun, which he used to kill Martin.
My ONLY problem with this assertion is that the kid was "unarmed." He had no firearm. It is well-documented that Zimmerman was bloodied and had signs of defensive wounds on his body. He was also wet and had grass stains on his back from rolling around on the ground.
SOME TYPE OF ALTERCATION OCCURRED. This is documented in the police reports, it was reported by the local media on numerous occasions. Having had to defend myself with a firearm in the past, you do not have the convenience of time to think, "Hmm, I wonder if this kid who is beating me had a gun or a knife."
Martins girlfriend was on the phone with him around the time of the attack. She said he had gone to the store for snacks.
That is the commonly understood scenario but really immaterial to the matter at hand.
Martin was carrying snacks when he was killed.
Repeating facts already in evidence, still immaterial.
Martin was on foot and Zimmerman was in a car. At some point for some reason Zimmermann got out of the car in the proximity of Martin.
I want to call immaterial again, but I'm curious why this matters. Police routinely stay in their patrol cars unless there's a reason to get out. Zimmerman got out of his car for some reason, but "why" isn't a matter toward his guilt or innocence. It happened, he got out. He can't go back and not get out of his car, the kid is dead.
If Zimmermann had not gotten out of his car, it was physically impossible for Martin to attack him or even to provoke an altercation this is just common sense.
It's common sense but it's also completely irrelevant. He DID get out of his car, why he got out is a mystery, but it doesn't matter how or why the altercation occurred... it did! Again, the kid is dead.
Zimmermann was an enthusiastic neighborhood watch participant
By most accounts, he was the captain. Remember, this was a GATED COMMUNITY. Trayvon was a NOT a resident of the neighborhood where he was shot. Whether he hopped a fence as a shortcut or was staying with a friend, he was not in familiar territory. Why would a 17 year old black boy attack a neighborhood watch captain? The neighborhood watch captain had a reason to be there. Trayvon, for all intents and purposes, did not.
Zimmermann called 911 to report Martin as a suspicious person
It's a fact, but doesn't really matter overall. He had a right and a duty to make the call.
It's not a crime to wear a hoodie on a humid 70 degree Florida night, but it's definitely suspicious. Our own government tells us "See something, say something" and one thing we're supposed to look out for is people wearing clothes that don't match the climate. Trayvon was guilty of that, IMO.
I've posted numerous links to local news outlets and the city of Sanford has released all relevant materials to the case here.
The MSM is twisting this to make it a public opinion issue, and they've done a damn good job at it!
>> Well, as I said, I was trying to pinpoint the dividing line
Understood. Good luck; let me know if you figure it out.
National Sheriffs Association (NSA) of Florida: The alleged action of a self-appointed neighborhood watchman last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program, NSA Executive Director Sheriff Aaron D. Kennard, said in the press statement. NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program.
When 28-year-old George Zimmerman was discovered by Sanford, Florida police standing over the body of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they accepted Zimmermans claim that he killed in self-defense as a neighborhood watch captain. Now, through a statement released by the National Sheriffs Association (NSA) the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch it has been revealed that Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by the organization. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.
In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket, Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon.
Zimmerman admitted that he had fired a weapon on the night of the incident. In addition, the non-emergency call Zimmerman placed on February 26 before the shooting revealed he had been pursuing Martin by car before accosting the youth on foot all direct violations of Neighborhood Watch policies. http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php?page=1
My fiancée likes to say, “there are three sides to every story: side A, side B, and the truth.”
Trying to find a middle ground is likely impossible. As I’ve said, I’m not defending Zimmerman, but I’m not going to convict him if I’m in the jury. I’ve been in his shoes. I’ve had to fire my gun in self-defense. It’s terrifying. This guy is probably incapable of sleep and constantly rolling over the situation in my head.
I was on an alcohol bender for 4 months after my last incident. The realization that I could’ve died that night is still very fresh in my mind. It gives you a new way to look at life.
Not surprised at Obama mouthing off before all the facts are known.
Remember the beer summit?
But a little surprised at Santorum and Newt failing to keep their mouths shut when it would have been appropriate to do so.
Nobody knows all the facts yet and that’s all they needed to say.
I read you. I’ve been fortunate I guess living unarmed in high crime cities. (Knock on wood.) You’re right, based on the evidence available it would be difficult to convict him, although a grand jury (which doesn’t convict) might see enough reasons to send the case to trial. Bad judgment was involved, we know. Whether ill will was there as well, we don’t know.
livius, the exact thing said to Zimmerman was “you don’t need to follow him.”
It may be nit picking but that is a very different statement from “do not follow him.”
Will no prominent Republican defend an American’s right to shoot a Negro?
You didn’t really dispute any of the facts — you just provided YOUR opinion or conclusion, or ruled them irrelevant.
The question of the “snacks” is quite relevant. It establishes a NORMAL LEGAL reason for Martin to be in the area. In other words, he wasn’t there to commit burglary, he was there because he was returning from the store. He didn’t have burglar tools or dope on him, he had snacks he bought at the store.
The question of Zimmermann getting out of his car is quite relevant. Had he not done so, there COULD NOT have been an altercation.
You also supplied some innuendo-as-fact of your own, as you accuse the MSM of doing. There’s no mention or evidence ANYWHERE of Martin having breached a neighborhood barrier to get to where he was found, as you accuse; maybe the gate was open?
Anyway, I rest my case: I find the simplest explanation that fits the facts to be that Zimmermann, an overzealous neighborhood watch captain, accused an innocent teen of misbehavior, following him in his car and getting out of his car to confront him. The teen, perhaps in outrage at being falsely accused, perhaps in fear, perhaps in self defense, managed to get into a fight with Zimmermann who then shot him. But if Zimmermann had not provoked, or at least confronted him — and Zimmermann had not the authority to do so — Martin would be alive today.
Yes, there are other “possible” explanations (like Zimmermann got out of his car to read a street sign and Martin jumped him) but they’re pretty tough to swallow (i.e. got out to read a street sign in his own neighborhood?)
I can’t be willfully blind to facts and reason in order to support some conclusion that fits my politics and stereotypes. I welcome new facts that point us closer to the truth, but for now I’m sticking with my conclusion.
There is also the question of Martin being judged by Zimmerman a “stranger” in that neighbourhood, which is I read 50% black, and where he most certainly had been before, if not before that day, than earlier in the day when he walked to and back from the convenience store. Certainly, the “captain” cannot be there 24/7, but a perceptive observer ought to be able to tell if a stranger is there for the first time or not. Martin seem to know where he was going. I know, living in a mixed race neighbourhood with a lot of pedestrian traffic, including young black men and seeing plenty of character I’d judge to be “suspicious”, but not suspicious enough to call 911, or confront them with my firearm. And there have been burglaries here, and most recently a car theft of a valuable Honda, but those I suspect were committed but characters who knew better than to look suspicious to a kind of overzealous watcher like Mr Zimmerman.
>> Do you remember the early politically correct film with Henry Fonda The Twelve Angry Men?
Didn’t see it. Don’t watch much tube; cuts into my neighborhood watch time.
>> So that’s what motivated me to search for that dividing line, which I now think has nothing to do with the few hard facts of the case, but with something more, something closer to the truth about us all.
Personally, I think the truth is half about which candidate dissed the vigilante... half subtle racial stereotyping... half gun lust, half righteous indignation about how the lowlifes are taking over the country, and half Charles Bronson.
And I’m not leaving myself out either, cause I have about half those issues myself. :-)
>> those I suspect were committed but characters who knew better than to look suspicious to a kind of overzealous watcher like Mr Zimmerman.
I can’t stand Whorealdo Rivera, but I concede he has given us food for thought on the hoodie issue. His point seemed to me to be that a culture modeling its dress after bad-boy heroes is a dead-end road and maybe should be rethought — for more than one reason, as you point out. The innocent become the target and the evil obtain camoflage thereby.