Posted on 03/23/2012 3:19:52 PM PDT by AnybodyButBarry
In remarks after President Obama made his first public comment on the matter, former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum said Friday that the handling by Florida law enforcement of the Trayvon Martin case has been “horrible” and that the state’s “Stand Your Ground” law should not apply to the shooter, George Zimmerman.
“Well, ‘Stand Your Ground’ is not doing what this man did,” Santorum said Friday morning at a campaign event in Monroe, La. “There’s a difference between ‘Stand Your Ground’ and doing what he did. And it’s a horrible case. It’s chilling to hear what happened, and of course the fact that law enforcement didn’t immediately go after and prosecute this case is another chilling example of horrible decisions made by people in this process.”
Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain, has not been charged in the shooting.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
This former Prosecutor agrees with Rick.
Santorum 2012
Nice to know you were there and have all the facts.
I can’t say these are Presidential statements on the part of Santorum.
Not only is it right to stand up for a man who apparently was being beaten for merely asking someone “Why are you here?”
It’s a chance to get that all-wonderful, most-glorious ‘Hispanic vote’ the GOPE is always touting.
Epic fails all around for the GOPE candidates.
Santorum should keep his mouth shut.
Rick must be getting desperate.
Washington Compost. No Creditability... Will wait to hear it from a source not so dishonest and working for the Democrats.
Have the Chicago police caught and arrested those responsible for the murder of 30 people last weekend? Why is that not being questioned and protested by the racist tools of the AFRICAN-AMERICA idiots?
The only part of this case poorly handled has been media coverage, and that p**s poor and agenda-based, biased coverage has led to uninformed pitchfork mobs.
Did I seriously see a post above made by a former prosecutor who claims the investigation was poorly handled? Really?
Santorum should keep quiet because the facts can go either way for Zimmerman. Negative for Zimmerman is he decided to follow Martin after calling the cops. The police operator told him not to follow Martin and let the cops arrive to handle the situation. We do not know how the fight started between Martin and Zimmerman. Witness state that Martin (who is big) was on top of Zimmerman and beating him bloody. That is when Zimmerman cried for help and managed to pull his handgun and shoot Martin. If Zimmerman agitated a hothead Martin and a fight ensued. Zimmerman would be hard pressed for using a gun in a street brawl caused partly by him. On the other hand if Martin turned and moved towards Zimmerman to confront him for following him. Zimmerman states his business but indicate he doesn’t want to fight and backs off, but Martin continues to advance, then Zimmerman may have justification. Zimmerman guilt or innocence hang on minor details of who agitated who and who attacked who, etc, etc that will delineate between a fist fight between two aggressive men or one man intending to harm another man, forcing him to defend his life while he was retreating from a fight.
Example if someone calls you an AxxHxle and you back off and tell him you don’t want any trouble. If that person advances with fists swinging, you can defend yourself. On the other hand you respond by calling him an AxxHxle, and he threatens to kill you, and you respond by daring him to try. Now the situation is no longer self defense but a brawl.
Yeah, here’s Santorum in action, a real leader he is...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2863034/posts?page=1
Don’t muddy up this thread with logic.
I happen to agree with you, but I’m curious about something, and maybe as a former prosecutor you can shed some light on this question.
What are the elements of a successful self-defense claim? I’m sure you dealt with many situations where a party claimed self-defense, was there some criteria you and your office would utilize in making a decision as to whether to prosecute, or was it more of a judgment call?
I don’t think any Presidential candidate should be talking about this issue at all. Period.. It is a local matter.
Until all the facts are out, I think its premature to make statements like this. Zimmerman hasn’t been arrested so far for a reason. It also rubs me the wrong way how these politicians (who don’t have all the facts either) are all but calling for his head.
“Hope I did this right! Maybe Newt can take advantage of Santorum’s ill-informed and inflammatory comments? “
Too late Newt has been spouting off the same stuff.
Good grief! The facts are not known yet.
“Nice to know you were there and have all the facts.”
BINGO YOU ARE THE WINNER!
And I have no doubt that Santorum does too! But then garnering the Negro vote in this campaign is critical to the GOP.
So far no facts are verified except for the moon faced “Whitey” picture. Don’t forget the Jena Six:
“
Superintendent Breithaupt described the battery as a “premeditated ambush and attack by six students against one. The victim attacked was beaten and kicked into a state of bloody unconsciousness.”[20] Barker was released after three hours of treatment and observation at a local emergency room for a concussion and an eye that had swollen shut.[11] The emergency physician’s record shows that he also had injuries to his face, ears, and hand.[21]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six
and the
the police should have a news conference and fill in some of what happened to try stop the media from making up what they want to have happened
Seems like everyone and his uncle wants to get his 2 cents on on this. The only excuse for Rick saying anything about this case is that everyone else has already weighed in, including Barry and Newt, not to mention every talking head and race baiter on TV.
No, if the eyewitness account is true, he wasn’t “standing his ground”—he was lying on his back on the ground getting pounded.
Good grief. All of you shut up, already, you dumb politicians.
Who started the fight? No one knows.
No valid self-defense claim if Zimmerman started the fight.
That’s what police investigations are supposed to find out.
Eggs Ackley! We need a lot more information before judging! A witness says there was a fight, That GZ was on the ground, and losing his butt. The cops found blood on his face, grass and blood on the back of his head, and blood in the grass. The witness says they saw the fight, and heard GZ call out for help.
In this case Santorum is acting like Zer0. Both are stepping in it without knowing all the facts.
Slightly worse than Newt’s opportunistic remark.
Has any politician stood up for evidence and due process?
He just lost my vote.
A grand jury will investigate the death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old shot to death in a gated community in Florida on Feb. 26, state attorney Norm Wolfinger announced Tuesday.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10775671-trayvon-martin-case-to-go-to-grand-jury-fla-state-attorney-announces
On Tuesday the 20th it was announced there would be a Grand Jury on April 10th. What in the L do these people want? Is not the rule of law good enough?
Or do we need instant justice or perhaps we could have trials set up like Survivor or Dancing with the Stars? Just dial our vote in by phone or however that works.
Sure, let’s have Idiocracy. Someone here commented in the past that they didn’t realize Idiocracy was a documentary— they certainly nailed that one!
re: “the state’s “Stand Your Ground” law should not apply to the shooter, George Zimmerman.”
How does he KNOW this?? All we have are media reports of this or that - there has been no hard investigation done yet. Zimmerman may be guilty as sin, but nothing has been proved one way or the other - he’s being lynched by the media, politicians, and the poverty pimps. What happened to a nation of law and order? Get all the facts first and prove it in a court of law.
If the cops were negligent, then sue the heck out of them, fire the ones responsible (although that hardly ever happens), and, if Zimmerman murdered this kid in cold blood - try him then execute him, or at least life in prison where the prison populace with take care of him.
But, NOTHING has been proved one way or the other yet. The politicians are stumbling over themselves to throw this guy to the wolves - talk about “No justice”. What if it’s found out that Zimmerman was justified - what are these politicians going to say then? However this turns out, Zimmerman’s life of normalcy is over forever. He will never be able to live or work anywhere even if found innocent. What a country we have now. I cannot believe it.
So far, I’ve only heard Santorum make this ridiculous statment - the others will probably do the same or say nothing at all (neither of which is good).
Also, this is another Godsend to Obama - another distraction from his horrible “leadership” - now he can put the “republicans are all racists” issue on the front burner along with “Republicans hate women” issue to campaign on rather than the economy.
Unfortunately they are taking their cue from the idiot in the white house per se
Obama, who doesn’t look like any of the presidents on our
money, was quick to call Sandra Fluke, who ,if had a daughter would look like Nancy Pelosi.
When will he call Trayvon’s mom, who doesn’t look like Obama’s
mom?
MSM likes to capitalize on ignorance. I'm of the opinion that anyone who hasn't lived in Southern Florida is at a serious disadvantage in discussing this case intelligently.
What Santorum should have said:
“It is unfortunate that the president has seen fit to stoke the fires of racial division in this unfortunate event, and even more so, that he has done so before a complete investigation has been made.
“It is the job of the chief executive, both personally and among his cabinet, to faithfully uphold the law, neither to commit criminal acts nor allow them to be committed for whatever ends. If he is intemperate or permits the law to be unfairly enforced or prejudiced, or makes an effort to bias the law with favoritism, he has failed in his duties.”
The short answer is that he must apprehend a threat. In order to justify use of deadly force, the threat being apprehended must be one of suffering serious personal injury or death, or, if a woman, rape.
looking at Prosser, Wade and Schwartz's "Torts - Cases and Materials" 9th edition, on page 104 under the heading of "Self-Defense," point No 6 says (without giving any case cite):
Retreat. One basic disagreement in approach to the privilege of self-defense focuses on whether the defendant must retreat if he can do so without increasing his danger, rather than stand his ground and use force. It is settle that he may stand his ground and use any force short of that likely to cause serious injury. The common law was that, rather than kill his assailant or seriously wound him, defendant must "retreat to the wall." A minority of the American courts still apply this rule, and it is adopted by the Restatement (Second) of Torts Sec. 65. The majority, chiefly in the south and west, have insisted upon a higher important of the dignity and honor of the individual and have held that the defendant may stand his ground and use deadly force, and even kill his assailant. [Remark about retreating from a gun bearing assailant skipped]
No relevant for this case, because this case involves the use of deadly force. But, for use of force that is not deadly, see Restatement 2d Torts Sec. 63. Self-Defense By Force Not Threatening ..., although it is legalese. See "m. Actor's duty to retreat."
The actor, if he reasonably believes that he is threatened with the intentional imposition of bodily harm, or even of an offensive contact, may stand his ground and repel the attack by the use of reasonable force, which does not threaten serious harm or death, even though he might with absolute certainty of safety avoid the threatened bodily harm or offensive contact by retreating.
Why should the police put any effort into protecting the media's credibility? The media is out to hang the police and prosecutor too, for not charging Zimmerman. If I was in the police chief's shoes, I would consider the media to be my adversary - and anything I said would be excerpted and rearranged so it would make me appear unreasonable, stupid, biased, etc.
Thank you for the explanation! :)
He doesn't. And, FWIW, if Zimmerman's account is correct, that he was returning to his truck and was surprised and attacked, then there is no application of "stand your ground" at all. In order for "stand your ground" to apply, a person needs an opportunity to retreat from physical blows or other use of force; and chooses to stand his ground rather than retreat. Absent an opportunity to retreat, the question about whether or not there is a right to stand ground doesn't arise.
The funniest aspect of this story is that to date, Romney has shown the best judgment, in not commenting at all on it, whereas Newt and Rick are grasping at the 1% of the black vote (1% of the 12% of the population that is black = 0.1% of the national vote) that is up for grabs, while neglecting the hordes of Hispanics who could vote against Obama for his nakedly racist interference in a local case that at worst, might involve manslaughter charges against a Neighborhood Watch Captain for killing a yet-to-be arrested juvenile delinquent casing homes for loot.
I don’t get it......an Hispanic guy shoots a Black guy, yet somehow some folks are acting like it’s the White Euro’s fault.
It wouldn't surprise me if Martin attacked Zimmerman for "dissing" and tried to inflict a beating he wouldn't forget, at the end of which Zimmerman pulled out his concealed weapon to avoid being pounded to death.
The way it works is that if a black guy kills a white guy, it's (majority white) society's fault for driving the black guy to crime. If a white guy kills a black guy, it's also (majority white) society's fault for engendering the racist climate that made him do it. Never mind that 90% of inter-racial crimes are committed by blacks against whites. Never mind that blacks commit over 50% of all crimes (including white collar crimes) despite being 12% of the population. It's always whitey's fault*.
* Note that I'm not suggesting that blacks are responsible for the actions of black criminals. What harshes my mellow is the tendency of blacks to defend the criminals among them, no matter how monstrous the crime, and to attack reasonable law enforcement measures like profiling as racist. While law-abiding blacks aren't responsible for the crimes of black law-breakers, they are responsible for making the rest of us less safe because of their constant whining about racism during the prosecution of black perps, who need to be either locked away for life or put to death.
Him interjecting anything here, would be really stupid.
If he said what I've heard, he's a vote whore.
I bet Mike Nifong does too. He's also a "former prosecutor." I'd wait for the facts, myself.
How it happened in Albany NY between 12/31/2011 and March 22, 2012.
ALBANY TIMES UNION
HEADLINE:”Fatal police shooting stirs rage”
Updated 04:04 p.m., Saturday, December 31, 2011
http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Fatal-police-shooting-stirs-rage-2432592.php
HEADLINE: “Grand jury: Albany police shooting was justified”
Updated 06:48 a.m., Friday, March 23, 2012
Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Grand-jury-Albany-police-shooting-was-justified-3429301.php#ixzz1pzHG85QG
next move by “the community:”
HEADLINE: “Hoodies in the Hood’ march Saturday”
Times Union Copyright 2012 Times Union. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
By Scott Waldman
Published 05:35 p.m., Friday, March 23, 2012
Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Hoodies-in-the-Hood-march-Saturday-3430660.php#ixzz1pzITaGJ6
That's where the evidence is pointing. Add in that Zimmerman was calling for help, and neighbors heard him. Nobody came to his assistance. i don;t know how long he claims to have "waited" for assistance, even a shouted out "STOP THAT!" from one or more people who live in the vicinity. He's justified in using deadly force even is he's not in fear of his life - what he has to apprehend is a threat of serious injury.
What fascinates me is that the media can be so reckless in fabricating a highly incendiary false narrative, and not hurt itself in the process.
I like you show his comments were ill informed - not.
This citizen no longer has any faith in either you, your profession or Santorum who are willing to condemn a person solely on what you have read in the MSM........
At the VERY LEAST, you and Santorum could have deferred judgment until a complete and thorough investigation has been conducted........Instead, Santorum has succumbed to race pandering.
Sorry Rick, you're now toast in my book and I won't shed a tear when you get your butt kicked by an equally offensive Romney........
What type of Hispanic is named Zimmerman?
He’s been acting like an idiot.
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