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George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin What We Don't Know
Backwoods Home Magazine ^ | 3/24/12 | Massad Ayoob

Posted on 03/24/2012 1:13:22 AM PDT by ebshumidors

The death almost a month ago of 17-year old Trayvon Martin at the hands of appointed neighborhood watch leader George Zimmerman has become a cause célèbre that has even drawn the notice of our President, who notes that if he had a son he would probably look like Trayvon. I’m seeing some defending Zimmerman, and most demanding his head on a platter, and a whole lot of people who don’t understand how the justice system is geared to approach these things. As I’ve said earlier in this blog, in answer to reader query, we don’t know enough about what happened to rush to judgment yet, whether that judgment is justified self-defense, murder, or manslaughter. The police have made it clear that there is evidence that has not yet been made public, and may not be put forth until the Grand Jury examines the case next month. Some issues: The autopsy results, including toxicology screen, have not yet been released. If it turns out that the young man who died was fueled by drugs known to cause violent behavior, could that change our perceptions? That knowledge is not yet in our hands. (Reportedly, Zimmerman was not tested, and police indicate that he showed no signs of drug or alcohol impairment.) My advice to YOU if YOU’RE ever involved in a shooting: request to be taken to a hospital to have a blood sample and toxicology screen taken. A “negative for everything” result will prevent false allegations later that you were drunk or drugged-up when you pulled the trigger.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: ayoob; banglist; massadayoob; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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To: ebshumidors

This is a man bites dog case. Thousands of blacks and Hispanics shoot each other and white people every year, and there’s nary a charge of racism. White people killing black people is so rare that when a black kid is shot by someone who they have made sure we know is a “white Hispanic”, it gets headlines, and they try to make the case that it’s racist.

41 posted on 03/24/2012 4:35:51 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: ebshumidors
"My advice to YOU if YOU’RE ever involved in a shooting: request to be taken to a hospital to have a blood sample and toxicology screen taken."

Sometimes even guys like Massad get in over their depth. Sorry, but that's the worst advice ever. There's a reason drug testing isn't universally conducted or required for law enforcement officers: false positive results. One false positive, though later corrected by follow-on testing for verification, is a major problem you don't need at a time like that. Early in my career, then AG Edwin Meese commanded that everybody in my particular outfit would set the tone of his administration's "zero tolerance" policy and "volunteer" to fearlessly undergo drug testing to prove its effectiveness. Fortunately, our fearless Chief told Meese, "you pee in the cup first, Sir." Meese blinked. We won. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
42 posted on 03/24/2012 4:38:21 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: Freddd; fatnotlazy

“...was reported to be an A/B student and had no record....”

“Was reported” being the key words in my statement.
I have not hear about the suspension. Source?
Links to case documents and 911 recordings.

43 posted on 03/24/2012 4:40:36 AM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: Voter#537

The key legal question is did Zimmerman’s actions set off a key of events that lead to Martin’s death. This is where the jury, DA and defense lawyer must fight over. When Zimmerman decided to follow Martin after he reported it to 911, he entered the legal hot zone. The jury must determine if Zimmerman broke the chain of events when he shot Martin. Example, Zimmerman claims he was returning to his SUV when Martin attacked him. That breaks the chain of events for Zimmerman and shifts the responsibility on Martin for his death. This also depends on what was said before Zimmerman headed for his SUV. Example if he told Martin that the cops were coming and he hopes they haul is nigger ass to jail and heads back to his SUV and Martin is infuriated by the insult and attacks, Martin has not broken the chain of events. If Zimmerman on the other hand told Martin the cops are coming and he is letting them handle the situation and he is going to his SUV to wait. He has broken the chain of events that lead to Martin’s death. If Martin is infuriated and attacks, then he has started a chain of events that will lead to his death. Zimmerman would no longer be responsible. This is going to be another Rodney King trial. A good defense lawyer will make sure Zimmerman jury will have a strong contingent of white/Hispanics to counter the black members. If the local DA cannot prosecute due to lack of evidence, a good defense lawyer has a very good chance of getting one jury member to vote not guilty and Zimmerman walks free. Problem the blacks will head to the streets and riot. If you are hispanic or white commuting in your car pray you are not in the wrong neighborhood at that moment.

44 posted on 03/24/2012 5:02:28 AM PDT by Fee
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To: Protect the Bill of Rights

Zimmerman was on his phone when attacked.

Yea it was stupid to follow a suspect but he did. He then lost the suspect and was heading back to his vehicle. He was confronted and attacked. When he was on the ground getting his butt kicked he drew his weapon and fired once firing the fatal shot.

Zimmerman is Hispanic. He has black family members. He and his wife were in a big brother program to two black children.

Media is using this to stir up black voters for the presidential race. They need a motivated base and huge turn out. This is an excuse for $harpton to raise money as well.

45 posted on 03/24/2012 5:03:56 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Protect the Bill of Rights

If he was never convicted (?) then does the domestic abuse charge prevent him from carrying? Too many issues for anybody that wasn’t there to decide. Suppose we’ll have to wait and see if the grand jury indicts or not. Either way, this guy has a price on his head now even if he was in the right. When jessie and al ride in to town you know it ain’t gonna be pretty. Two ugly mugs for sure. Can you get closed captioning when they attempt to speak? Just askin’. Not that I really care what either one of them have to say. We already know what they’re going to say. “Beautiful young man with his whole life ahead of him taken needlessly by a man with a grudge.” Paging Tawana, phone call for Tawana Brauley (sp).

46 posted on 03/24/2012 5:30:12 AM PDT by rktman
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To: TankerKC
We also know that, while claiming to wait for more, info Ayoob will throw crap against the wall, just to see what sticks.

Just like what the race-baiters are doing across the country now.

47 posted on 03/24/2012 5:44:08 AM PDT by FrdmLvr (culture, language, borders)
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To: rktman

I am no different from anyone else, I have gut reactions based on nothing but emotions. But I recognize them for what they are and look for facts.

Supporters of both Traynor and Zimmerman have jumped in gun in my opinion. This is no longer what happened that night It is about race. That is a shame because both of them deserve to have the truth be told.

48 posted on 03/24/2012 5:50:58 AM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: yank in the UK
The USA is a racial powder keg, and I’m afraid it’s going to go off soon.

The fires are being stoked by Al Sharpton and Barrack Obama.

49 posted on 03/24/2012 6:15:01 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie (A free counttry and a lying media are incompatible.)
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To: fatnotlazy

Zimmerman’s call to the SPD was made at 19:11:12. That’s 7:11pm for us civilans.

At the bottom of the page:

50 posted on 03/24/2012 6:18:04 AM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: TankerKC

Exactly. That is another Trayvon Martin.

There are some pics floating around purporting to be more contemporaneous ones of the now-deceased Trayvon Martin. I wish I had a validated source for those.

51 posted on 03/24/2012 6:34:08 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: wolficatZ

Facts Facts Facts

All you have are facts.


I got better.

52 posted on 03/24/2012 6:35:32 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: Lancey Howard
What I can’t figure out is why this dude went out in the rain so he could walk to a 7-11 and get a bag of candy

0.03" between 5:30 and 7:30PM. That's not rain.

53 posted on 03/24/2012 6:40:29 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: Freddd
Except of course he was on 5 day suspension from school, visiting his father so his father ‘could straighten him out’...

US schools these days, maybe he hugged someone. That's a suspension.

54 posted on 03/24/2012 6:46:32 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel - Horace Walpole)
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To: ebshumidors; spunkets
From the article:

"My advice? Let’s all “stand our ground,” not participate in the rush to judgment, and wait for the facts and the evidence to become available to us 300 million jurors in the Court of Public Opinion."

Way too late for that. All who subscribe and support racial tension, plus those who suffer from "white guilt," have already decided that Zimmerman must pay, and according to some of those I listed, he must pay with his life. Even some Freepers have jumped on that particular bandwagon, one (hello, Spunkets) even invented an entire scenario that was not supported by the witnesses, the tapes, or the police reports.

If spring is this bad, I really dread summer.

55 posted on 03/24/2012 7:12:05 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now that Perry's out, I guess I'll just have to vote for "Generic Republican Candidate")
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To: TigerClaws

No, Zimmerman was not on the phone when “attacked.” He had disconnected with the dispatcher and asked that the responding police officer call him when he arrived. No 911 recording from his phone during the actual fight exists, although you can hear him yelling for help and a shot on other people’s 911 calls.

Martin was on his phone while he was being followed (time confirmed by cell phone records.) According to the Martin family lawyer, (yes, this is hearsay) the girl Martin was talking to says that he said someone was following him, and that he was going to walk fast but not run, and then the phone call ended abruptly.

The question is not whether Zimmerman was losing in a fight with Martin. The question is who started that fight.

Of course the media and the left are milking this for all its worth but that doesn’t change the issues of whether Zimmerman started the fight and is legally culpable for Martin’s death, and whether the Sanford police did a proper, competent investigation into a homicide.

56 posted on 03/24/2012 7:24:14 AM PDT by heartwood
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Lynch the bastard, eh?

May I say that unless you were there you are as ignorant of the facts as your pal, Al Sharpton.

57 posted on 03/24/2012 7:24:25 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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I think most of us are not really "defending" Zimmerman--we're just saying, let's take a realistic look at what evidence we have. So far, the evidence (witnesses, tapes, police reports) does not fully support the media's stories.

At this point, the only things the media has gotten right is that one man is dead. The race of Zimmerman has been falsely reported as white, words on the 911 tapes have been mis-reported to paint Zimmerman as a racist white guy, and the media has carefully obscured many of the facts of the case that would seem to exonerate Zimmerman. This has to be some of the worst reporting I've ever seen.

In the US, it's usually customary to have the trial prior to the execution, not that this will stop the mob mentality we're witnessing. I think we're being set up for a summer of riots, and possibly for martial law so Obama can try out his nifty new EO.

And freepers are HELPING with this agenda? What ever happened to "let's investigate the facts before reaching conclusions?"

58 posted on 03/24/2012 7:46:37 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now that Perry's out, I guess I'll just have to vote for "Generic Republican Candidate")
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Webster's could do a copy/paste on that post and use it as definitive for the entry 'epic irony'
59 posted on 03/24/2012 7:47:37 AM PDT by tomkat (FU.baraq)
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He was not attacking Zimmerman

Is this your sworn eye witness testimony?

You,obviously were there and saw what happened, so why haven't I read your sworn testimony?

Oh , this is just another opinion interspersed within your other ignorant opinions.

You have no real knowledge of the facts and yet feel free to condemn Zimmerman, saying he never should have had a gun, and we shouldn't defend him and he is a threat to the world and on and on and on goes your ignorant opinion spewing.


60 posted on 03/24/2012 8:13:10 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorists savages.)
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