Skip to comments.Zimmerman Attorney To Anderson Cooper: Trayvon Martin Broke My Client’s Nose
Posted on 03/24/2012 6:47:49 AM PDT by tobyhill
Amid the rush of loud outrage and vocal protest from the parents of Trayvon Martin and their supporters the silence of one character in this tragic tale has been deafening: George Zimmerman, the free man who shot Martin and alleges self-defense. His attorney, Craig Sonner, finally spoke out to Anderson Cooper last night, and had few answers but one accusation his client has a broken nose and a laceration on his skull, and that was an injury done by Trayvon Martin.
Sonner noted to Cooper that his client seemed fine save for a considerable bit of stress natural to his situation, but admitted that y conversations have been by telephone. He did not know where Zimmerman was but assumed he was still in the area and hadnt fled the country. He had surprisingly little to offer Cooper about the facts of the case; asked what Zimmerman had told him about what transpired the night Martin died, he said he should have made a statement to police at the time, I believe he did, and said he did not discuss the details, and they would be privileged even if he had.
(Excerpt) Read more at mediaite.com ...
The bottom of the photo says: Trayvon all grown up.
I have no idea how to find that link again, there has been too many posted to remember.
Nope...not here.... All the evidence at the scene substantiated Zimmerman's story and the police acted accordingly....and nothing to determine otherwise any guilt on his part.....not to mention his credibility as working with the police as a Watchman.
Some have reported the guy jumped Zimmerman as he was getting into his SUV....that will become evident, if so, before the grand jury.
Having a CCW does not preclude you from anything a non CCW holder does, except go into certain buildings. Is he supposed to disarm in order to provide info to the dispatcher? The point is, he is well within his right to ask a question, carrying or not. If he is not carrying when the person turns, (or maybe in this case, ambushes) then there is no SD aspect, because the guy is pummeled, possibly killed. Then you have another thug crime with no media coverage.
You are right. Anybody has a right to ask anybody anything. But if you are carrying a CCW pistol and follow somebody, asking for information or not, you are initiating the entire following sequence. This puts your SD standing at risk, no matter what happens in the final ten seconds. That’s my only point.
I wasn't aware that Zimmerman had his pistol in hand while following the guy.
Didn't Zimmerman say he was attacked while going back to his SUV? That would mean he was being followed, no?
Just clarifying the situation. It is also interesting that the story refers to the victim as being a kid, like Zimmerman knew he was only 17. From the photos I've seen the “kid” looks older than 17, especially considering he was wearing a Hoodie that would obscure his face.
One other thing, my Wife's Mother is Hispanic. I asked my Wife if she had ever heard the term White Hispanic, since it appears she is one according to the Media. She never heard that term used and she is in her 50’s. The Media is so creative when they need to be.
Check your mail.
Maybe it’s time to start reminding them? I’m going to see how this plays out. (I think I already have an inkling.) Then I’m going to personally mail each of them a letter reminding them of what tools they were.
Of course...and I have....following to where the guy was parked and relaying his license plate number.
I've also observed a group with two people arguing and in "fight mode"...most can recognize the stance easily.... Telling them to take it inside or the police would take them elsewhere has always broken it up and they go their seperate ways.
Mmmm............wonder what the Rev. Al was thinking?
Paleos find it easier to call you a "troll" or a "newbie." I'm no longer amazed by the number who lean liberal/progressive.
Fair enough. If you were physically overpowered by an assailant and feared for your life, would you draw or not?
Tell it to the Grand Jury. My point is that the follower puts his SD standing at risk by his actions. If you want to have a slam-dunk, no questions, no nothing, walk free outcome, you don't do it by following "suspects" with a pistol.
If you do, don't be shocked if the Grand Jury returns an indictment.
It's what Mas Ayoob, the country's #1 expert on self defense shooting, calls "Problem #2."
Problem #1 being surviving a SD shooting, Problem #2 being, don't go to prison for it. There are things that while narrowly legal at a given moment in time (such as following a "suspect") might torpedo your later claim of SD in the eyes of the Grand Jury.
It sort of like this old ditty about the "right of way."
"Here lies the body of Jonathan Gray, who died defending his right of way.
"He was right, dead right, as he sailed along, But he was just as dead, as if he was wrong."
If Zimmerman winds up in prison, he will probably wish he had not followed Trayvon.
Could very well be true. Please read my last about being “dead right,” in the little poem.
Shepard Smith the other day repeatedly called him a “little boy”!!!
Don't muddy the water with silly facts! (SARC)
I wasn't aware that Zimmerman had his pistol in hand while following the guy.
Where did I say that he did have a gun in his hand? A CCW pistol is CONCEALED.
I would have followed as well when the guy started to jolt. Zimmerman had a right to ask the guy what he was doing there...innocent people don't generally run unless they're up to no good. Seeing Zimmerman on the cell phone he began approaching Zimmerman from what we understand....then jolted. Yes, I would have followed in order to keep him "in sight" and remain engaged with the dispatcher relaying information.
Kids playing in the street
Garage doors open
Loud music from a car
A guy in a tank top and khaki shorts carrying a (gasp!) paper bag.
Sure I’d draw and fire. But before I let my adreneline overcome my good sense, I hope I’d realize that if my following (action one) led to a shooting, ANY shooting, SD or not, I’d probably be hauled in front of a GJ and indicted.
It’s the ditty again. I don’t want to be “dead right” or in this case, “right in prison.”
It’s back to Mas Ayoob’s “Problem #2.” It’s not enough to survive Problem #1. You have to account for Problem #2: “arranging” your SD shooting so the Grand Jury agrees that it’s 100% SD from start to finish.
And in this political/racial climate, I don’t like Zimmerman’s odds at the GJ.
Martin had a legal right to be walking in the neighborhood. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow him, either in his vehicle or on foot. Zimmerman had a legal right to ask Martin what he was doing. Martin had a legal right to tell Zimmerman to pound sand, or to ignore him, or to elude him.
Up to that point, prior to whatever physical contact occurred, the only question of legal consequence I have is whether or not Zimmerman had displayed his weapon to Martin. I may have missed it, but I don't think I've seen that aspect addressed anywhere.
Back to the speculation, Martin didn't have a car,and in the call (long version) the kid bolted and then Zimmerman lost him and seemed to be returning to his vehicle. I myself kept a safe distance when calling in that fellow I posted about earlier. We don't know yet how close he was following, its not evident with the available info.
Piss off, troll. Don’t call me full of crap and then come back for more.
If you are smart, and you have a CCW, (as do I and many here), you have to accont for Mas Ayoob’s “Problem #2.”
It will wind up at the GJ, yes? If you are involved in a SD shooting, you don’t want to go to prison, yes?
Then you must be very careful how you initiate a chain of events that leads to your SD shooting, or else you risk torpedoing your own SD case.
Even if Trayvon came running at Zimmerman and tackled him, in the last ten seconds, the Grand Jury is not going to only look at those ten seconds. The case will be made that Zimmerman initiated all that followed by following Martin.
Sorry, but that is REALITY. Especially in this racially charged climate.
Or, you can be like Jonathan Gray, above, and be “dead right,” or in this case, “right, in prison.”
If that's not what you meant, than why bring up the CCW? He apparently only used his Pistol when he was on the ground being beaten in the face by the “kid”. He did not threaten him with it before the shooting occurred.
If I read too much into your Post, then clarify your statement. The fact that he was a CCW Holder is irrelevant, even though the Liberal Media wants to turn this into a Gun Rights argument so they can take away your CCW Rights...
I hope the Grand Jury agrees with you.
It may, or may not, especially with the heavy thumb of racial politics placed on the scale of justice.
It’s not enough to be very narrowly legal at the moment of pulling the trigger. The Grand Jury is going to look at the entire event, not only the last ten seconds.
Don’t be like Jonathan Gray. Be smart.
Stay out of jail after a SD shooting.
Martin's girlfriend reports that she heard a conversation on the phone:
Martin: "Why are you following me?"
Zimmerman: "What are you doing here?"
I suspect that Zimmerman had headed onto the back walkway to try to spot Martin, whom he'd lost sight of earlier (we know this from his recorded conversation with the police.) Searching for a suspicious person who "looked like there is something wrong with him, maybe drugs or something" in the darkness was pretty poor judgment, you'd have to say. But I admit it's something I probably would have done.
Martin probably decided to confront this weirdo following him. We now know what poor judgment this decision turned out to be - but it normally wouldn't be a fatal mistake. It's something, I have to say, I would probably do.
Zimmerman, I am guessing, was surprised to find himself suddenly face to face with the weirdo he was trying to keep an eye on. I don't think think that's what he wanted. After all, if he wanted a confrontation, why didn't he just roll down his window and confront the guy when he first saw him?
But once they were face to face, neither one of them wanted to turn away or look scared. You see, I can remember being a young man, too, and I can put myself in either one of their shoes.
I imagine the next statement in the conversation was "None of your d*** business!" and then either Martin shoved past Zimmerman, or turned away and Zimmerman grabbed him to keep him from leaving. It actually matters legally, I think, who initiated the physical altercation, but the fact is that the only living person who knows what happened is George Zimmerman.
And that's why I don't see that there is evidence to charge him with a crime.
It's just a damn shame that the conversation didn't go like this:
"Why are you following me?"
"Look, buddy, I don't want any trouble. I'm George and I'm with the neighborhood watch. I actually already called the cops. Do you live around here?"
"Man, you scared the crap out of me. I'm Taryvon. I'm visiting my dad in that house across the street."
Just as sad, sad event. That's why the story is so compelling, and why the political and racist agitation surrounding it is even more tragic.
Whites are so keen on appearing open minded about minority behavior no matter how much facts get in the way that they simply ignore obvious fakirs and liars like Sharpton who if white would be unknown or shunned. I lived in Manhattan at that time, it astounds me that Sharpton is allowed a pass on that and the Brooklyn and Harlem killings...
And now guilty accommodating whites have allowed so many minorities into the media that they now basically run all but the top offices.
They have a large say in what hits the TV screen, slightly less influence in major newsrooms but still the dominant force.
Just go into any network staff photo or newsroom for print media and you will find a majority coalition of blacks, latinos, liberal often single women, homosexuals of both genders and religious minorities.
Thru outreach to get “diversity” they have made those folks the dominant force...even in entertainment some...largely gay in some networks like Bravo or mostly urban minority in some like the MTV channels
this is all the result of the breaking down of racial separateness in the 60s and the attempt to integrate minorities into power.
But whites never thought that instead of being grateful the minorities would be angry, resentful and ready to blame and editorialize the news much further away from the truth than the whites who held power before would have dared.
The conventional 1940s to 1960s white media liberals have given way to a monster basically.
there are a few exceptions but not many
The fact that Zimmerman has injuries proves only that there was a fight. It proves nothing about who started it....and since Zimmerman is the only living witness to the start all we have is his statement which, by legal standards, is considered self-serving.
From Williamson v. United States: "In the criminal context, a self serving statement is one that tends to reduce the charges or mitigate the punishment for which the declarant might be liable."
The SC opinion in the case noted that self-serving statement are inadmissable unless corroborated by neutral sources, eg, third party witnesses.
My sentence “inferred” nothing of the sort. Your inference comes from your own mind. A CCW pistol is a concealed pistol. “Brandishing” etc is all from your own mind.
It matters who started the fight, not just who was "winning." And George Zimmerman is the only known witness who can tell us that. Which is why there does not appear to be any evidence of a crime.
But I think the writing is on the (political) wall, and I will be stunned if he is not charged with something.
That is a totally plausible scenario.
And the clear lesson to CCW holders is that if you follow a “suspect,” the “suspect” might at some point pull a J-turn and confront you, the follower.
And then, what could have been an easy SD claim will go to the Grand Jury, because the act of following precipitated the entire sequence of events leading up to the shooting.
The Grand Jury will NOT (much as we wish) look only at the last ten seconds, but the entire sequence of events.
“Problem #2,” etc.
Really? Do you have kids? What do you teach them to do when a stranger is following them in a car? I teach mine to get away as fast as they can.
I really want to hear the instructions you give your kids about how to deal with strangers following them.
Yep. All true. And what is most interesting to me at this point, is how much will the racial “thumb” on the scale of justice at the Grand Jury weigh?
Zimmerman is probably going to go to jail, even if the last 1-30 seconds were pure, legit self defense.
If you don’t want to go to prison for what otherwise is a good SD shoot, don’t follow people around.
Don’t be like Jonathan Gray, from above. “Dead right” or “Right, in prison.”
You might be right but I think he won’t be charged...for the reason you gave...nobody but zimmerman knows who threw the first punch.
To be able to "prepare for the chain of events", it seems one would require LEO type training, ie, making sure the shoot is good and procedure is followed. Are you implying that before a citizen can procure a CCW for self defense, they should be required to go through above and beyond the normal weapon safety and law awareness training? That is a slippery slope, my friend. He could have been dead right procedure-wise by leaving his weapon in the truck, but he may have been dead being right.
The Left will get their Stalinesque show trial, you can bet on that.
As a 10 year Neighborhood Watch Captain I can tell you that here in IL we have perfect legal right to ask anyone we wish anything we wish to ask them. They also have a perfect legal right to tell us to go **** ourselves.
We are permitted to follow, observe, and if we see a crime being committed make a lawful Citizens Arrest. Florida law may be different, but them’s the facts here in IL.
Police Dispatchers here in IL also have zero legal authority to “order” us to do anything as they are not sworn Officers. They can recommend, ask, beg, but they can not order.
Our neighborhood watch group members do not engage strangers except in self defense or the defense of another during a crime. We do not play cops and approach and question people in the neighborhood we don’t know. It’s none of our business to bother people unless they bother us. That kind of behavior is nosey, rude and inciting. You might get yourself jumped or shot for threatening and scaring the stranger as he stands his ground!
No one would be doing what Mr. Zimmerman was doing - approaching Mr. Martin on the street as a suspect. It sounds like he did not have an official crime watch group; rather he named himself the watcher of the neighborhood. This is a mess.
The fact that Zimmerman has injuries proves only that there was a fight. It proves nothing about who started it....
Nobody has to prove who "started it". You guys are speculating way too much about things you don't understand.
All that must be proven is that Zimmerman did not fear death or serious bodily injury from an attack by Martin.
This "precipitated" stuff is nonsense.
But I agree with Mas Ayoob about preparing for “Problem #2,” which is where Zimmerman is now: awaiting a racially charged Grand Jury.
It's not enough to know in your heart it was a good SD shooting, if you are involved in one.
The Grand Jury needs to believe it too. So don't sabotage your case by your actions before the shooting. And if you go following a “suspect” (in your mind) and it then turns into a SD shooting, the racially-charged GJ might not agree with you.
Then you will have years to sit in prison, contemplating your innocence.
I’m sure that those same legal rights apply in FL. My only point is that the GJ might buy the case that Zimmerman precipitated the events. Ayoob’s “Problem #2” is also important.
Under Florida law, a young man was being stalked for no reason. He had every right under the law to knock Zimmerman’s brains out and he would have been found justified since he was in fear of his life. The stand your ground law applies to the young man same as anyone else. Where as the writer of the law has said it did not apply to zimmerman in this case since he was the stalker.
Florida law allows you to punch someone who asks you a question? Can you please cite the relevant Statue and provide me with a link to it?
Thanks in advance.
Actually the citizen’s watch group was formed by the association. And he didn’t approach him, he followed him. Approach implies the other is facing you.
If you ever face a Grand Jury in a similar case, just be sure and tell them that. I'm sure they will agree, and let you walk free.
Give a little thought to Mas Ayoob's "Problem #2." It matters a lot, if you don't like the idea of spending time in prison for SD.