Skip to comments.Zimmerman Attorney To Anderson Cooper: Trayvon Martin Broke My Client’s Nose
Posted on 03/24/2012 6:47:49 AM PDT by tobyhill
Amid the rush of loud outrage and vocal protest from the parents of Trayvon Martin and their supporters the silence of one character in this tragic tale has been deafening: George Zimmerman, the free man who shot Martin and alleges self-defense. His attorney, Craig Sonner, finally spoke out to Anderson Cooper last night, and had few answers but one accusation his client has a broken nose and a laceration on his skull, and that was an injury done by Trayvon Martin.
Sonner noted to Cooper that his client seemed fine save for a considerable bit of stress natural to his situation, but admitted that y conversations have been by telephone. He did not know where Zimmerman was but assumed he was still in the area and hadnt fled the country. He had surprisingly little to offer Cooper about the facts of the case; asked what Zimmerman had told him about what transpired the night Martin died, he said he should have made a statement to police at the time, I believe he did, and said he did not discuss the details, and they would be privileged even if he had.
(Excerpt) Read more at mediaite.com ...
What is with you guys and this loaded language?
What do you mean "stalker"? Did what Zimmerman did amount to the crime of Stalking under Florida statutes?
Descriptive words matter when calling for someone to be arrested and charged with a crime. Please give evidence that Zimmerman legally stalked someone.
Isn't that the danger of self-government in the first place? Do you think people shouldn't watch their neighborhoods? If they do, shouldn't they be armed? Given that the alternative is an armed monopoly police, is that what you really want?
I live in a rural area. The Sheriff is 10-45 minutes away, depending upon what they're dealing with. If a kid that looked like a gang-banger was on my land, you can bet I certainly do want my neighbors to confront him. Situations vary. That's why we have local standards.
They are NOT police, and have NO right to demand to know if somebody lives there, or ask what their business is. NO right at all.
That depends upon if they are witnessing a crime, doesn't it? At that point, if the crime was trespassing versus trying to steal a car, or breaking into a house and shooting the residents, you think the only thing to do is dial 911? Really? When seconds count...
Was that the Founders' vision? I think not.
There is no end to that kind of thinking, because to keep people safe would require cops all over the place. At that point, there are a lot of cops. They become a political force. They unionize. "Officer safety" then demands TWO cops always together. Oh, and pensions, gotta have pensions, with hazard pay. It's got to the point that in San Jose, CA we have sergeants dragging down $250,000 a year. We did very well in this country without SWAT teams everybloodywhere.
"We" can't have just anybody doing rehab either, or child protection, or... It's bankrupting us Travis.
I suggest for you a nasty little book, HAGA'S LAW (Why Nothing Works and No One Can Fix It, and the More We Try, the Worse It Gets). It'll cure you of this kind of incontinent thinking.
Sorry, but that is the way it is. As I see it. And I am a FL resident with a CCW.
I take it that you think 'the way you see it' applies to everybody, regardless of whether they are urban, suburban, or rural, and regardless of the degree of emergency. Procedure uber alles. That is a bureaucratic tyrant's perspective, a preference for a police state that is unworthy of you. I suggest you rethink your absolutist position.
I haven't seen anything to suggest that "shootings aren't uncommon" in the neighborhood. The fact that Zimmerman called the Police Department doesn't indicate that there are a lot of shootings, or any shootings, in the neighborhoood.
You keep calling Zimmerman a “stalker”. Stalking is defined as a repeated and persistent following with no legitimate reason and with the intention of harming.
From what I’ve read, this incident was a brief confrontation, and Zimmerman had a legitimate reason to question the kid. Zimmerman was not “stalking”.
LOL! Yes, yes, and yes. You nailed all three of your points.
What evidence is there that Martin initiated force?
I don’t believe Zimmerman gave up the chase and headed back to his Truck.
George voice was very disappointed on tape when 911 tells him to go back to car. He gets out the car after he says “He’s runnin” When he gets out of his car (you can hear the door and he starts walking and the wind starts making that blowing on the phone sound) It was not long after that 911 tells him to stop following him. He should not be far away from his car. It would only take 15 seconds or less to get back to car. The 911 goes on for quite a long time asking a bunch of more information, and you can still hear George walking around huffin and puffin.
2:09 you can hear george get out and the car door at 2:14. Then you hear the wind blowing sound on the speaker because he’s outside. It only takes til 2:27 seconds for 911 tells him to stop following him. The tape goes on for a long time til 4:10. George is still not back inside car at end of tape. He does not say he will be back inside car sitting, and waiting for police.
911 tells Zimmerman to meet police at mailboxes.
George interjects “have them call me and I will tell them where I will be at.” He does not say that he will be back at his vehicle and doesn’t describe the truck so they know what it looks like.
It comes down to credibility. If Zimmerman’s story isn’t believable and has a lot of holes in it, he will go down.
George is lying when he said he went straight back to his truck after 911 told him to. He was wandering around a long time but it shouldn’t have taken him long to get back to truck.
So he says. According to Martin's girlfriend, Zimmerman started the confrontation.
You're right that Zimmerman did nothing illegal when he ignored the 911 dispatched and continued to follow Martin. It wasn't illegal, but it (and other aspects of the 911 call, in particular his comment to the effect that "these a**holes always get away") is evidence of Zimmerman's state of mind, and makes it seem plausible that Zimmerman started the confrontation, not Martin.
I don’t mean to muddy up the waters here, because I believe you’re making a valid point. The responses to your original posting have some valid points as well, most especially that this was a gated/restricted-access community. That can play a big role in the law in some states, I can’t speak to FL and you’re much better versed in Florida law than I am.
But let’s cut to the chase here, shall we?
ANY time ANY CCW holder shoots a choir boy who happens to be black, there’s a huge potential for this furor. Never mind the facts. Facts can go hang themselves here.
Fact: the CCW carrier here isn’t “white” - if he is, then so is Obama. But that doesn’t matter here, because as the news is now telling it, this guy was just short of admission to the Klan. I guess since Robert Byrd has passed on, the Klan has relaxed admission requirements.
Fact: The black yute wasn’t where he was supposed to be. While we cannot postulate exactly where he was supposed to be, we can definitively say that he wasn’t supposed to be, and that was on the grounds of this community.
Fact: The CCW carrier had reason to call 911 before the lethal engagement started. Additional fact: The 911 operator didn’t command him to not follow, only said that he didn’t “need” to do that. That’s not terribly imperative language there.
Fact which is in contest, according to the color of the observer’s skin: The black yute wasn’t looking for his church hymnal that he dropped earlier in the neighborhood while returning from Bible Study.
There have been cases I’ve seen where a homeowner bags a perp *in his house* and the mother is on TV the next day, wailing about “what a good boy he was” and so on. The relatives come out of the woodwork, all claiming that the “boy was turning his life around.” It is all I can do to restrain myself from wanting to scream at the TV “Did you not take notice of the fact that this ‘good’ boy broke into someone’s house?”
You’ve heard it before too, I’m sure.This is the sign of a truly diseased culture in which we now live, wherein a significant segment of our society believes that they’re above the law. Sometime, check out how many 1040’s the IRS gets wherein the filer is claiming to not have to pay taxes as part of “reparations for slavery.” Go ahead, check it out. Don’t believe me:
The cure for this is to hammer them flat with the power of the law and prove to them that “no, you’re not so terribly special.” But that’s not happening in the current environment. What is sordid and worse is that their behavior is actually being encouraged by the highest office holders in the land.
I’m not saying that Zimmerman was justified in his actions that put him into a situation where lethal force was employed, much less that he took a high-IQ route to arrive at this situation. All I’m saying is that the law is no longer color blind WRT perps here, and that’s a fact for both CCW holders AND COPS. A CCW holder doesn’t need to put himself out on the very thin edge of the law as Zimmerman did to have The Justice Brothers standing on his doorstep the next week, agitating for the feds to become involved.
Now, given your background and ability to assess no-crap-for-real threats, I wholeheartedly agree with you that it is a physically (as well as legally) stupid thing to put oneself into the position into the situation Zimmerman did. No way I’d have done what he did, because, quite frankly, no one is paying me to do that and I’m not stupid enough to volunteer my physical safety to take on that risk for something outside my home.
He never said he went in the truck, just to the truck. And if you ran somewhere, it would take you longer to walk back where you came from, especially if out of breath. After all, he was a fat slob/stalker/deadbeat according to some of the posters here.
If I was wrong, I was wrong.
You said the law allows you to punch someone in the face for asking a question. Now prove that assertion by citing the relevant Statute or STFU.
Have a nice day.
If I was wrong, I was wrong.
I dont believe Zimmerman gave up the chase and headed back to his truck either.
I would have taken him longer than 20 seconds to run up the pathway, around the corner, and past a number of apartments to arrive at 2831 Retreat View Circle where the shooting occured..
FIREARM, not forearm. Oops...
Damn you spell check!
no way. it wouldn’t take longer than 15-20 seconds to get back to truck (at most), even for an obese person. The attack would’ve been on the tape!
How did he get that far away from his truck? Trayvon dragged him away from his truck? The screaming and scuffle started behind houses, not at his truck. ear witness testimony.
The gang-banger Trayvon photos that are being posted on this site are not of 'our' Trayvon who was an A-B student and a member of his school's football team.
Actually, you're wrong. Under Florida law, the aggressor in a confrontation cannot then use deadly force to defend themself in that confrontation (except in very limited circumstances). Moreover, someone can be an aggressor for these purposes without actually throwing the first punch - all they have to do is "provoke" the use of force against themself, and they cannot assert a "self defense" defense.
All that must be proven is that Zimmerman did not reasonably fear death or serious bodily injury from an attack by Martin.
You missed a word, and an important one at that.
That’s a pop warner football pick, not high school, try again
That is a four year old photo.
Why can’t you be honest?
If he went back to the truck then how, why, and when did he get to the backyard of 2831 Retreat View Circle?
Key here is went back TO the truck, not arrived at the truck. By the way there is no back yard in a condo complex.
You have completely misrepresented what is on the tape.
There is no “wind noise” it is the sound of the mike rubbing on clothing or skin, anf you should be able to figure that out. And at no time was Zimmerman told to go back to his car.
Stop this trolling and lying!
How would you know?
Were you there when the photo was taken?
Can you provide a more current photo?
And don't post a picture of the gold-toothed gang-banger from Georgia!
Great Collection of Quotes. Thanks for posting.
That’s all common area, not a backyard.
See post 129
See post 129
See post 129
Okay so I have walked into my grandmothers house this morning and from what I understand the 17 year old who was getting things from the grocery store and talking to his girlfriend, wants to get back to his fathers apartment and when he runs back to his house he is followed by an older guy. Then when the older guy catches up with him a scuffle ensues and the kid has a fatal wound while the other guy has a few scratches.
Firstly, someone was murdered. Respect the dead enough to not blame them for their own death, eh? It was not a suicide if there was a scuffle.
Secondly, I have seen a many defenses of Zimmerman claiming that he was scratched up. This is nothing of an excuse. When I was in AFJROTC we had a few bouts of wrestling during summer leadership school. The first time I had a real wrestling match was against a 6 foot tall African American boy of 16 years. He weighs about 140 lbs. I am 57 and weigh 160 lbs. we had 2 bouts and I won both times within a time of about a minute. This was my first experience wrestling (I am usually pacifistic and hate hurting people but it was all in good fun) and he had been on the football team for 4 years prior. Anyone who puts the defense in a 240 lb man over a 160-200 lb kid probably doesnt know much about fighting. Not to mention the fact that since the kid was a football player and Zimmerman caught up to him it shows something possibly good on the physical fitness level of Zimmerman.
Thirdly, in my opinion the first thing Zimmerman did was profile the kid. I went to a school that was about 40% African American and I was able to tell who was clean and who was on things etc. The kids who were making good grades and playing football were not on anything as far as I could tell, and in high school you can tell. In the phone call recording Zimmerman was instantly saying that the kid was suspicious, up to no good and on drugs, that he was afraid another one was going to get away another what though? another kid getting skittles and iced tea? or one that puts a hoodie on when its raining because he doesnt want his headphones to get wet. I know that my headphones cost 170$ after tax and I earned that money myself at 15.
Fourthly, Zimmerman has a record whereas Martin does not. I have read the reports on Zimmerman and saw domestic violence. I am a victim of child abuse so I am biased against him on that, but anyways I have seen people put martin down because he has a 5 day suspension. Being a Florida high school student, I have seen many people get suspensions for insubordination (as in not taking their hat off, not keeping quiet when the teacher asks, and other petty behavioral problems), for loitering in the halls, etc. so as far as I am concerned the 5 day suspension of a high school student is irrelevant considering as a student I see behavior like that every day. My old language teacher called it monkey juice when kids walk the halls during class with a bathroom pass. Its nothing bad (as in drug-wise), the kids just like to socialize too much to focus on schoolwork usually (which will bite them in the butt later in life).
I have seen people ask if martin was trespassing. He was not and if he was it does not matter much as he is dead. People have also asked why no one drove him to the store. Not all parents are the same and considering the father was with his girlfriend I doubt either of them wanted to take him. My parents would not have taken me to the 7/11 down the street in that situation.
I have the right to knock you down and beat your face in according to your view.
“Then when the older guy catches up with him a scuffle ensues and the kid has a fatal wound while the other guy has a few scratches.”
There is absolutely no proof of this. Pure speculation.
The kid misses the part about Zimmerman being pinned to the ground, being struck about the head and face, and screaming for help repeatedly prior to the gunshot.
Yeah, I go along with all of that.
There is absolutely no proof this did not happen. We know that George had a bloodied nose and a cut on the back of his head, which according to his attorney should have been stitched, but was not. We also know that Trayvon had a fatal gunshot wound but we don’t know if he had any other injuries.
All the witnesses who called 911 used the term 'backyard' ... but what do they know.
Wow, you want to charge someone with a crime because they can't prove something didn't happen?
That's the exact opposite of our system of justice.
Why are you even on this forum?
This is a classic case of a SD being muddied up by the shooter starting the situation by being the follower. Was Z-man acting illegally, until the last act of the play? No, but he’s still in grave legal danger, that was predictable from a month away. This does not mean I want following folks to be illegal, etc. But folks should know that it carries a grave legal risk, if the followed pulls a J-turn into your face. Suddenly, your SD looks very dubious to the jury. I wouldn’t do it for that reason. Maybe you would. Fine with me.
I’m also not a fan of open carry, but if others want to attack that hill, fine by me. See the difference?
Well, the eye witness says that Zimmerman’s face and head were covered with blood.
“There is absolutely no proof this did not happen”
Stop making big leaps, and trying to fill in the blanks to come to the conclusions you want to come to.
A competent and unbiased assessment. I wish others could see this clearly.
Also grandma Alice, Martin attended Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School, and their mascot is the lightning. So that is definitely his pop warner team.
Thanks for the links and post # 66.
The common areas of a condo community are NOT the private property of George Zimmerman, to determine who shall or shall not proceed unhindered.
Zimmerman did not, I don’t believe, see Martin breaking into a window or patio door, etc.
Martin was proceeding on a common area of a condo community, fully in his rights to do so.
There is a walking path through the "backyards" that is for all residents to use. Just like most places have a walk in the front these also have one in the back. These are not fenced in yards.
The kid, my grandson, did not miss the part about Zimmerman being pinned to the ground. He wondered who started the altercation: was it the armed guy who was chasing the kid or was it the kid who was trying to get away from the wierdly acting guy who was following him? No one knows.
Everyone is touting that there’s a witness ... but the witness arrived after the altercation began, he did not see who started it.
Obviously, the kid got the upper hand quickly much to the dismay of Zimmerman who then began to call for help.
Question ... how did Zimmerman unholster his gun while pinned to the ground? Could it be that he had it unholstered and in his hand when he went into the darkened area behind the houses. Could it be that the kid saw the gun and jumped at Zimmerman instead of turning and running away with the possibility of being shot in the back?