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Witness: Zimmerman 'Never ... Tried To Help' Trayvon Martin
MSNBC ^ | March 25, 2012

Posted on 03/25/2012 12:30:48 PM PDT by Steelfish

Witness: Zimmerman 'Never ... Tried To Help' Trayvon Martin

By NBC News, msnbc.com staff and news services

A woman who says she and her roommate witnessed the final moments of Trayvon Martin's life told Dateline NBC that George Zimmerman had "his hands pressed on his back" and "never turned him over or tried to help him."

Zimmerman's lawyer, when shown part of the interview being aired Sunday night on Dateline, emphasized that his client would be claiming self-defense.

"I think there were efforts made to render aid to Trayvon," Craig Sonner told NBC's TODAY show.

Mary Cutcher told Dateline that she and her roommate both saw Zimmerman "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back."

Cutcher added that Zimmerman told her and her roommate to call the police. "Zimmerman never turned him over or tried to help him or CPR or anything," Cutcher said.

Sonner also reiterated what he had said in recent days, that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and a gash to the back of his head.

A friend of Zimmerman's who appeared on TODAY with Sonner added that Zimmerman, 28, was distraught over the teen's death.

"Right after the shooting he couldn't stop crying," said Joe Oliver, who is African American and a former TV reporetr and anchor in Orlando.

Zimmerman has not been charged in the Feb. 26 shooting that has ignited racial tensions and raised questions about the Sanford police's handling of the case. Martin was black, and Zimmerman's father is white and his mother is Hispanic.

In a separate interview Sunday, Oliver said that "I'm a black male and all that I know is that George has never given me any reason whatsoever to believe he has anything against people of color.''

(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: georgezimmerman; trayvonmartin
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To: pops88; dmzTahoe
Yes, Zimmerman has a history of acting like a wannabe cop:

Teontae Ami, who also lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, said very few black teenagers like himself live in the neighborhood. Teontae, 17, said he and a close friend who is black would sit at the end of a driveway in the evening and felt uncomfortable when Zimmerman would pass them on a neighborhood patrol. They used to greet him, but he never responded, Teontae said. "I think he took his job too seriously," Teontae said, referring to Zimmerman's watch patrols. A student, Teontae said his friend was once confronted by Zimmerman, who accused him of stealing a bike. "I don't want to call it a black thing, but it sure seemed like it," said Teontae, who said the bike was never stolen.

“He would circle the block and circle it; it was weird,” said Teontae Amie, 17. “If he had spotted me, he’d probably ask me if I lived here. He was known for being really strict.” Travis Williams, a black 16-year-old who wears dreadlocks, said last year a man came to his house and accused him of stealing a bicycle. The police even came and checked the serial numbers on the bike in his garage. Zimmerman told neighbors about stolen laptops and unsavory characters. They discussed the topic with Zimmerman when the watch captain knocked on their door late last year. Zimmerman seemed friendly, helpful, and a “pretty cool dude,” Ibrahim Rashada said. “He came by here and talked about carrying guns and getting my wife more involved with guns,” he said. “He said I should have a weapon and that his wife took classes to learn how to use one. “I do have a weapon, but I don’t walk around the neighborhood with mine!” Actually, he does not walk around the neighborhood at all. “I fit the stereotype he emailed around,” he said. “Listen, you even hear me say it: ‘A black guy did this. A black guy did that.’ So I thought, ‘Let me sit in the house. I don’t want anyone chasing me.’ Police volunteer program coordinator Wendy Dorival said she met Zimmerman in September at a community neighborhood watch presentation. “I said, ‘If it’s someone you don’t recognize, call us. We’ll figure it out,’ ” Dorival said. “‘Observe from a safe location.’ There’s even a slide about not being vigilante police. I don’t know how many more times I can repeat it.

Despite the frequency of his calls to the police, Zimmerman had only become a member of the neighborhood watch in September 2011. In fact, Twin Lakes’ neighborhood watch itself did not exist before then, according to Wendy Dorival, volunteer coordinator for the Sanford Police Department. Dorival first met with Twin Lakes residents to give a neighborhood-watch presentation on the evening of Sept. 22. The meeting was initiated by a call from Zimmerman, she said. “He was the one who contacted me at first to get it started there,” Dorival said. Over the years, his scores of calls to police showed he pursued shoplifters and errant drivers with zeal, reporting pit bulls, potholes, children playing in the street, open garage doors and "suspicious" youths - usually black males - loitering in the street. He peppered his calls with jargon familiar to police. In one case, he chased a reckless driver while calling 911 - the driver later told police he was terrified that Zimmerman was going to attack him. Dr. Laurence Miller, a Palm Beach County clinical psychologist who works with local police agencies, said he believes Zimmerman likely was acting out the "whole TV cop role in his head" when he confronted Trayvon. "A lot of people like the power and control that law enforcement officers have but with that comes a tremendous amount of responsibility," Miller said, pointing out that a police officer is the only profession that can use "coercive physical force" or lethal force to subdue a suspected criminal. Whether Zimmerman ever actually applied to a police agency is unclear. But according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, he never applied to take the Basic Abilities Test needed to enter recruit training. However, in December 2008, he applied for a citizens' police academy with the Seminole Sheriff's Office. In his application, Zimmerman stressed his background with the law: He wrote that his father is a retired Virginia Supreme Court magistrate judge and his mother worked as a deputy clerk of courts. He was accepted and completed the one-night-a-week, 14-hour program. Sheriff's spokeswoman Heather Smith stressed that the program is simply an educational tool designed to engage citizens and teach them about policing. "It's not a training academy. Participants are not issued any type of sheriff's equipment or deputization," Smith said. His prior contacts with the law would have given police agencies pause.

Zimmerman, according to neighbors, stepped up to organize the community watch, patrolling the neighborhood while walking his dog, toting his Kel Tek 9 mm semiautomatic handgun, for which he held a concealed weapons permit. Nevertheless, even supportive neighbors question the wisdom of taking a gun along on patrols. That's something that Miami Maj. Delrish Moss, who oversees the department's community outreach unit, cautions against when speaking to city-organized citizen's patrols. Last week, he brought up the Zimmerman case to his volunteers, stressing it's best to leave weapons at home. Leave the police aspirations and guns at home and focus on simply observing and reporting potential crime, Moss told them."In law enforcement, you always run into people who speak to you in cop jargon, in a way that you can tell they are some kind of frustrated cop," Moss said. "For the most part, they are harmless and just love police officers, but sometimes, these conversations can be alarming."

301 posted on 03/25/2012 5:26:00 PM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: BCR #226
I don’t know about you but I don’t consider a chick rubbing my crotch an attack. LOL

Depends. If she's LOL while doing it that could be construed as an attack on one's manhood I suppose.

302 posted on 03/25/2012 5:26:11 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: pops88
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, rather than make a characterization, and consider known facts related to the current issue.

Agree, pops88.

But the only facts we know at this point are these:

Zimmerman saw a black youth walking along the sidewalk. He deemed him to be suspicious. He alerted 911. The dispatcher told him not to pursue. Zimmerman continued his pursuit.

After that, the story becomes muddled.

My point is everyone should take a breathe of air, slow down, await a thorough, fair investigation prior to rendering a verdict in either direction.

Zimmerman's past, character and history need examining, and are also factual, as is Martin's past and character.

Had the boy ever been in trouble with the law?

303 posted on 03/25/2012 5:27:45 PM PDT by dmzTahoe
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To: BenLurkin

After having his nose broken and his head banged on, what makes anyone think Zimmerman was in any condition to do much of anything by survive?


304 posted on 03/25/2012 5:29:26 PM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: jacknhoo; All

“Why are you lying? It was addressed to me.”

Oh, for Pete’s sake....of course it was addressed to you, but the poster blamed the news media, NOT you. You need help.....before the admin moderator has to delete all of your posts.


305 posted on 03/25/2012 5:29:26 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Alice in Wonderland

thank you :)


306 posted on 03/25/2012 5:30:21 PM PDT by dmzTahoe
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To: jwalsh07

Obviously, all it takes is a difference of opinion on here, to get your post deleted. I have noidea what your post said now...lol. I don’t really care. As long as it is a pne way conversation, what is the point? If you can’t handle a disagreement, that’s not my concern...I would be concerned, for those who strike opposing points of view.

I never am vulger nor obscene and I am also am about as Conservative as most people get. I can get downright sarcastic, in response to sarcasm.

I also have 6 children and I have two who have been shot at by nuts and this Zimmerman is a nut and it is disggusting how this site is taking up for him, simply because the Sharptons and Jacksons are making a stink out of it.

You’re on the losing end of this argument in the end and you all know it. No matter how much you try and silence the the truth, your blind faith in a corrupt man like Zimmerman will make you look pretty foolish in the end.

Nope, no juicy posts from me....not in all the years I have been on here...lol.


307 posted on 03/25/2012 5:30:44 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: Steelfish

aO bama You obvious failed the course in critical thinking.

“hands pressed on his back” indicates the encounter is terminated otherwise the women would have seen Zimmerman shoot Trayvon.

Why don’t we wait for the ballistics?


308 posted on 03/25/2012 5:31:59 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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To: org.whodat
who says who started a fight?...I mean seriously, where are people getting this information....

granted, Z was an idiot, who should have just backed off but did he attack?...

if it was Z who was killed, how many protests do you think would take place defending the poor little black boy who was just protecting himself?....there would be 1000's defending his actions including all the black talking empty heads...

309 posted on 03/25/2012 5:32:00 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Alice in Wonderland

Busybody, eager beaver and a fool.


310 posted on 03/25/2012 5:32:27 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: TASMANIANRED

BINGO!!!


311 posted on 03/25/2012 5:37:11 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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To: jacknhoo

I didn’t think it could be too important. But I wanted to give you an opportunity to post whatever was on your mind while I was here to read it. Done and done.


312 posted on 03/25/2012 5:38:07 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: TASMANIANRED

Yeah, Neighborhood Watch is more of a benefit, than liability. As a guy who survived two deadly attacks, I’m glad we have one.


313 posted on 03/25/2012 5:38:22 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: cherry

Read post 301, should answer your question. The man thought he was the law.


314 posted on 03/25/2012 5:42:14 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: Steelfish

If I put two in your chest I’m more likely to put one more in your head than to give you CPR.....just sayin’


315 posted on 03/25/2012 5:42:24 PM PDT by Feckless (I was trained by the US << This Tagline Censored by FR >> ain't that irOnic?)
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To: jacknhoo
Obviously, all it takes is a difference of opinion on here, to get your post deleted.

Calling someone a racist is what got your post deleted. Knock it off. We won't ask you to chill out again.

316 posted on 03/25/2012 5:42:43 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: org.whodat
The man who wrote the law, and two governors and many elected representative say you are wrong. Take it up with them.

These officials are caught with their pants down because they forgot to write something into the law, or there are consequences of the law they didn't foresee, and now they're hearing from their constituents.

I don't have to take it up with them, however. Legislators write laws; courts interpret them. Legislators don't get a mulligan; they don't get to go back and say 'what I intended this law to mean was 'x' - sorry I forgot to include that in the language of the law - please hand me a pencil with an eraser and let me rewrite it after it was passed.' Nope. That's what amendments are for.

Now that an unambiguous law has been passed, the opinion of these officials is no more important than your opinion or mine, as a matter of law. The Florida law says what the Florida law says, for better or worse.

317 posted on 03/25/2012 5:46:01 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Scoutmaster

The politicians are running for cover, or in the case of Jeb Bush, Santorum, etc....trying to make political hay out of this. Sad.


318 posted on 03/25/2012 5:50:18 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: dmzTahoe

Have you visited the Sanborn Fl official web site and read the Zimmerman related documentation?
“Zimmerman should have ceased a pursuit and waited for backup as was instructed.’ First off he was not “instructed” but advised “you don’t have to do that” (911 tape).
Second: he was in his neighborhood and entitled to walk where he chose just like Trayvon.
Third: We don’t know what happened and series of jury will decide.
Fourth: Your intruder was allowed to opportunity to continue with his depredations because you did not have a gun or were too weak to take him...I would be in the same boat.
Fifth: I beleive you can sell your story to some liberal Hollywood story teller.


319 posted on 03/25/2012 5:53:30 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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To: Scoutmaster
No Florida law says what a jury of twelve will say it does. And the man that wrote the law can get on the stand and give his opinion. The judge and jury will then take that into consideration.
320 posted on 03/25/2012 5:55:07 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: Hattie

“clearly told to stop doing that”
not true...he was told you don’t have to do that...listen to the tape.


321 posted on 03/25/2012 5:56:20 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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Comment #322 Removed by Moderator

To: Steelfish

Non-deadly force is a debatable term. Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, punching him in the face, while Zimmerman as screaming for help. Are you telling me that Zimmerman should just have relaxed and taken the beating?


323 posted on 03/25/2012 6:01:44 PM PDT by Eva
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To: sauropod

The tape says differently...the tape explicitly says “you do not have to do that”..and not to “cease and disist”..and more importantly we don’t know what happened after that.

these are not semantics but facts that are ignored in the effort to lynch Zimmerman symbolically and in fact.


324 posted on 03/25/2012 6:04:17 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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To: Alice in Wonderland

It is a minority neighborhood! It is a fact that there has been a lot of crime in the neighborhood and most of the perpetrators were Black. Probably most of the victims as well.


325 posted on 03/25/2012 6:06:21 PM PDT by Eva
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To: rlmorel
"...Neighbors describe Zimmerman as a portly young man who walked casually through the neighborhood with his rottweiler and a gun...."

____________________________________

A rottweiler and a gun? He sure was afraid of something.

326 posted on 03/25/2012 6:09:47 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Glad you did.


327 posted on 03/25/2012 6:11:41 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: jacknhoo
not in all the years I have been on here...

Jwalsh07 has been here for quite a few more years than you.

I think I'd trust his judgment.

328 posted on 03/25/2012 6:11:41 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: sauropod
I agree that the dispatcher may not have had the legal authority to tell Zimmerman to cease and desist.

Then what bearing does it have on any criminal culpability on the part of Zimmerman?

Voice of Authority?

Can you show me the link for that one in the Florida statutes?

329 posted on 03/25/2012 6:12:05 PM PDT by 101stAirborneVet
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To: org.whodat

You don’t really believe what your writing. Zimmerman or his reps have never used the “stand your ground” defense. Most who have used it are anti-gun advocates.


330 posted on 03/25/2012 6:13:49 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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To: BilLies

The truth will out.


331 posted on 03/25/2012 6:14:48 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: jacknhoo

What makes you think this expelled little piece of garbage was in any way “innocent?”

Hank


332 posted on 03/25/2012 6:16:11 PM PDT by County Agent Hank Kimball (Screw it. Newt's the smartest candidate and the guy I want to see debating Obummer. Flame away.)
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To: 101stAirborneVet

Don’t be dense.

I was commenting on the average person’s proclivity to submit to the voice of authority - whether or not that voice was legit.


333 posted on 03/25/2012 6:16:53 PM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: org.whodat

Wow....I am shocked at how many people are here shedding tears for this vermin. I had thought FR was immune to this sort of nonsense.

Amazing.

Hank


334 posted on 03/25/2012 6:18:31 PM PDT by County Agent Hank Kimball (Screw it. Newt's the smartest candidate and the guy I want to see debating Obummer. Flame away.)
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To: BilLies

Well then, he , zimmerman, can be charged with murder and convicted after his trial. No problem, plea deal time. Is that what you are saying.< /p>


335 posted on 03/25/2012 6:18:55 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball; jacknhoo

I would advise against engaging jacknhoo. He talks in circles and repeats the same thing over and over no matter how many times he’s been shown wrong. Just friendly advice. Don’t waste you time.


336 posted on 03/25/2012 6:19:58 PM PDT by trappedincanuckistan (livefreeordietryin)
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To: Steelfish
"Time for all strong statesmen to stand up and say so fearlessly and without intent to score political points."

And time for trolling race-baiters to stop using MSLSD as a source to perpetuate a lynch-mob against a man whose only crime appears to have been defending himself against a politically incorrect perpetrator.

FOAD.

Hank

337 posted on 03/25/2012 6:21:44 PM PDT by County Agent Hank Kimball (Screw it. Newt's the smartest candidate and the guy I want to see debating Obummer. Flame away.)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball

Yes, a lot of people call cop wannabes, vermin, but I have not seen anyone here crying. But then Hank was sort of soft hearted. He liked the pig also.


338 posted on 03/25/2012 6:23:10 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: org.whodat

I read 301 and went to sources and you are full of drawing dots where there are none, other wise know as BS.

There is a offical record...I’d say check it but I know you don’t give a Obama about the facts.


339 posted on 03/25/2012 6:23:27 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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To: jwalsh07

LOL... good point but she can laugh all she wants. I won’t really be caring. LOL


340 posted on 03/25/2012 6:25:56 PM PDT by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: trappedincanuckistan

Thanks for the heads-up. Sadly, he isn’t alone....I’m not sure what is happening here. We’re accepting M-S-N-B-FREAKING-C as a source here now????

Hank


341 posted on 03/25/2012 6:26:02 PM PDT by County Agent Hank Kimball (Screw it. Newt's the smartest candidate and the guy I want to see debating Obummer. Flame away.)
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To: Eva

“Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, punching him in the face, while Zimmerman as screaming for help. Are you telling me that Zimmerman should just have relaxed and taken the beating?”

I have heard everything BUT : )

Another posted a Miami Herald article, that was so hopelessly slanted against Zimmerman, as to be laughable.


342 posted on 03/25/2012 6:26:47 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Cboldt; org.whodat
The statute is pretty clear. You picked out one section of it, but there is a whole chapter there. I blockquoted a chunk of your link back at you, to show that the law does, in fact, account against the person who started it.

You are correct. As you said, you quoted a chunk of my link back at me. I mentioned the entire chapter and I missed that portion as have several commentators.

I also owe org.whodat an apology. What I said about statutory interpretation is completely correct; a legislator's intent cannot be used to interpret an unambiguous law. In this case, as you pointed out, Section 776.041 is clear and unambiguous. The author of the statute did include the language about provocation in that part of the chapter. If Zimmerman provoked the use of force by Martin, then he could not have used deadly force unless he had exhausted every means to escape the danger other than the use of deadly force. That's a factual issue.

I can't tell you, once Martin used force, whether Zimmerman exhausted every means to escape danger from Martin other than the use of deadly force. Are you certain enough about the facts to state that as a matter of law, one way or the other? I'm not. I don't know, blow by blow, what happened once force was used by Martin.

I do know that the statute contains provocation language (I was wrong and the author of the legislation was right), but it's not absolute, as you see from the language of Section 776.041. There are still circumstances under which one who provokes an incident can use deadly force. I'm specifically not saying Zimmerman was or wasn't authorized to do so. I won't make that judgment unless and until I'm more certain about the facts. My guess is that Zimmerman probably wasn't authorized to do so, but that's supported only by supposition at this point.

343 posted on 03/25/2012 6:27:40 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: BilLies

The facts. Here is the fact, a kid was armed with a snack and a coke walking down the side walk. In the united states that is not illegal and is no ones business. That is the fact.


344 posted on 03/25/2012 6:28:30 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: TASMANIANRED

Thanks, Tas. One was a home invasion deal...in 1976!!


345 posted on 03/25/2012 6:32:03 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball

There’s quite a few people that are getting their talking points right from CNN or MSNBC. It’s not hard to spot.


346 posted on 03/25/2012 6:32:07 PM PDT by trappedincanuckistan (livefreeordietryin)
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To: jacknhoo
"...this Zimmerman is a nut and it is disggusting how this site is taking up for him, simply because the Sharptons and Jacksons are making a stink out of it."

And neither you or I KNOW a damned thing about Zimmerman other than what the MSM and the race-hustlers have told us.

But we DO know this, don't we: If Jackson and Sharpton are on one side, it's a VERY VERY good bet we should be on the other?

We also know this little rat was expelled, though oddly enough no one in the MSM seems to have much interest in why.

But you keep on running with the lynch mob. It's so easy, after all. The left will call you "reasonable," so it's all worth it!

Excuse me while I vomit.

Hank

347 posted on 03/25/2012 6:33:37 PM PDT by County Agent Hank Kimball (Screw it. Newt's the smartest candidate and the guy I want to see debating Obummer. Flame away.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Maybe you should read post 343.


348 posted on 03/25/2012 6:34:26 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball

No agenda there , eh?


349 posted on 03/25/2012 6:34:32 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball; trappedincanuckistan

On another thread, someone was quoting Mother Jones : )


350 posted on 03/25/2012 6:36:07 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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