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Supreme Court and health care: 4 justices control law's fate
The Oregonian ^ | 3/25/12 | Sue Jepsen

Posted on 03/25/2012 5:47:00 PM PDT by Jean S

WASHINGTON -- Here's a thought that can't comfort President Barack Obama: The fate of his health care overhaul rests with four Republican-appointed Supreme Court justices.

His most sweeping domestic achievement could be struck down if they stand together with Justice Clarence Thomas, another GOP appointee who is the likeliest vote against.

But the good news for Obama is that he probably needs only one of the four to side with him to win approval of the law's crucial centerpiece, the requirement that almost everyone in this country has insurance or pays a penalty.

(Excerpt) Read more at oregonlive.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: obamacare; scotus; supremecourt
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1 posted on 03/25/2012 5:47:08 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: Jean S

As many have pointed out, if the federal government can compel us to purchase private health insurance, they can compel us to purchase anything. This will set a very bad precedent if it’s upheld by The Supremes.


2 posted on 03/25/2012 5:53:40 PM PDT by Signalman
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To: Jean S

Color me skeptical, but the thought of nine black robes between a political whim becoming the law of the land and my wallet doesn’t exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy either.


3 posted on 03/25/2012 5:55:04 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: Jean S
It will be upheld. That still doesn't change the fact that it's unconstitutional and down right unamerican.

And on our side? Our “inevitable” candidate can't take a stand against this even if he wanted to.

4 posted on 03/25/2012 5:56:45 PM PDT by Aglooka ("I was out numbered 5-to-1, I got 4.")
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To: Signalman

If the Supreme Court sides with Obama on this they might as well close the doors, tear up the Constitution, and declare America a dictatorship.


5 posted on 03/25/2012 5:59:13 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Aglooka

Our country started dying the day we took out prayer from the public sector...I advocate a strong time of prayer for our nation and in particular, for our 9 justices as we approach the single most important decision any Supreme Court will face in our lifetime...Pray as you’ve never prayed before!


6 posted on 03/25/2012 6:00:16 PM PDT by princess leah
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To: SpaceBar

He’s losing 9-0.

Sorry, this is so unconstitutional that even a leftist judge can’t have any doubts about this.

The reason this is at SCOTUS is because the administration openly lied. If SCOTUS kicks it back as a tax, the conservatives will spend every penny they have until Novemeber saying Obama lied. If it is not a tax, it’s unconstitutional. Obama said it wasn’t a tax.


7 posted on 03/25/2012 6:01:12 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Solyent Pink is Sheeple!!!!)
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To: Venturer
If the Supreme Court sides with Obama on this they might as well close the doors, tear up the Constitution, and declare America a dictatorship.

Hold that thought, because it just might be reality in a few days. We got one commie dyke kagan, and a wise latina deciding your fate and mine.
8 posted on 03/25/2012 6:02:27 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: Jean S

Actually, I am quite confident about one thing — IT WILL BOIL DOWN TO THE DECISION OF ONE MAN — Anthony Kennedy.

And it will all depend on which side of the bed he happens to wake up on in the morning.

But it will be a 5-4 decision.


9 posted on 03/25/2012 6:02:43 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (question)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
He’s losing 9-0.

I wouldn't bet on it. Two appeals court justices, both friends of Scalia, cited his opinion in Raich to uphold Obamacare:

Both Silberman and Sutton cited Scalia’s opinion in 2005 upholding strict federal regulation of marijuana in the case of Angel Raich, a Californian who used home-grown marijuana to relieve her pain. “If Congress could regulate Angel Raich when she grew marijuana on her property for self-consumption,” Sutton wrote, “it is difficult to say Congress may not regulate the 50 million Americans who self-finance their medical care.”

http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?a=rp&m=b&postId=1165037.

10 posted on 03/25/2012 6:06:49 PM PDT by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: Venturer

For those FReepers who keep saying they are staying home if their favorite presidential candidate is not the nominess — THINK ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN THE NEXT 4 YEARS IF ENOUGH OF YOU STAY HOME AND LET OBAMA CRUISE TO A SECOND TERM.

One of the consequences will be that MORE justices like Ginsberg, Kagan and Sotomayor will be in our courts.

Scalia is not getting any younger and might retire by 2016. So will Kennedy. Clarence Thomas isn’t getting any younger either. Will you allow Obama to replace these men with liberals?


11 posted on 03/25/2012 6:06:52 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (question)
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To: SpaceBar

We already know how they will vote.


12 posted on 03/25/2012 6:08:57 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Ken H

6-3 against 0bamacare.


13 posted on 03/25/2012 6:09:05 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: SeekAndFind

And if we elect Romney do you expect any better?

Check his Massachusetts choices.


14 posted on 03/25/2012 6:10:24 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Venturer

RE: And if we elect Romney do you expect any better?

I am at least hopeful that he can be CONTROLLED and INFLUENCED by a more conservative Congress the way Bush was.

The alternative ( i.e. letting Obama cruise ) is simply giving up. I am not one of those who thinks that things are as hopeless as they are.


15 posted on 03/25/2012 6:13:43 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (question)
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To: Venturer

People are asking if Mitt Romney would be any better. Mitt Romney won’t have you family whisked away in the middle of the night to be murdered. But that’s where we’re going with the z.


16 posted on 03/25/2012 6:14:54 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: SeekAndFind

Brilliant post. I wish people would understand not to be emotional like libs and stamp their feet for their favorite candidate. We need to stop Romney or Obama. We can’t afford more lib supremes.


17 posted on 03/25/2012 6:14:54 PM PDT by Yaelle (Santorum 2012 - our sole chance to stop the Rominee)
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To: Perdogg

RE: 6-3 against 0bamacare.

Interesting. And which of these 4 liberal justices will join the 6 — Breyer, Ginsberg, Sotomayor or Kagan?


18 posted on 03/25/2012 6:27:27 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (question)
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To: Jean S

If the Supreme Court were dispensing blind justice; the votes would not split on partisan lines.


19 posted on 03/25/2012 6:27:58 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Perdogg

6-3 against 0bamacare.
______________________________________________________________
From your lips to God’s ears.


20 posted on 03/25/2012 6:29:02 PM PDT by no dems (I've always been crazy but that's the only thing that's kept me from going insane.)
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To: Jean S; no dems; Impy; GOPsterinMA; ExTexasRedhead; justiceseeker93; little jeremiah; wagglebee; ...

Anthony Kennedy is the most powerful man in America.


21 posted on 03/25/2012 6:30:05 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (A chameleon belongs in a pet store, not the White House)
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To: Jean S

26 States are bringing this case to the SCOTUS. That is some heavy-duty artillery.


22 posted on 03/25/2012 6:30:26 PM PDT by no dems (I've always been crazy but that's the only thing that's kept me from going insane.)
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To: Jean S

When will SCOTUS announce its decision?


23 posted on 03/25/2012 6:33:56 PM PDT by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: SeekAndFind

A post wasted on Freepers.


24 posted on 03/25/2012 6:43:47 PM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: SeekAndFind
Sotomayor. In Fact, there was some discussion not so long ago that she was a closet conservative.
25 posted on 03/25/2012 6:47:35 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Jean S

The Supreme Court is only one way to destroy the travesty that is Obamacare.

We can kill it via the political process if the judicial doesn’t work.

We can kill it with state nullification.

We can kill it by not complying.


26 posted on 03/25/2012 6:47:45 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Ken H

I just read somewhere online that a decision should come by mid-summer.


27 posted on 03/25/2012 6:52:27 PM PDT by arichtaxpayer
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To: Jean S; ElkGroveDan; ScottinSacto; calif_reaganite
Does anyone remember the oft repeated promise to us by our leaders in the House of Ill repute that they would not fail to defund obamacare???

Now after at least 3 golden opportunities they aren't willing to risk a "government shutdown" by completing their repeated solemn promise to the people of the US!!!

They have already flinched!!! They're more scared of a failed POTUS than they are of the people who sent them to the dance!!!

28 posted on 03/25/2012 7:21:18 PM PDT by SierraWasp (I'm done being disappointed by "He/She is the only one who can win" and being embarrassed later!!!)
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To: Ken H
I wouldn't bet on it. Two appeals court justices, both friends of Scalia, cited his opinion in Raich to uphold Obamacare:

I think it will be argued from a Contract Law perspective. A contract is null and void when entered into under duress. The government requiring you to enter into a contract with a health insurance company under the threat of penalty is duress. Therefore, Obamacare is illegal under Contract Law. (As far as being unconstitutional, that goes without saying, regardless of what a few folks in black robes say)

29 posted on 03/25/2012 7:25:53 PM PDT by Go Gordon (President Poverty - President Downgrade - President Food Stamp - President Pantywaist - B. H. Obama)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Why the aitch Kagan isn’t forced to recuse herself I’ll never know.


30 posted on 03/25/2012 7:40:27 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: SoFloFreeper

The Supreme Court is only one way to destroy the travesty that is Obamacare.

We can kill it via the political process if the judicial doesn’t work.

We can kill it with state nullification.

We can kill it by not complying.


It’s going to have to come to that, but I hope that SCOTUS doesn’t become complicit in the tyranny.


31 posted on 03/25/2012 7:43:55 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Venturer
If the Supreme Court sides with Obama on this they might as well close the doors, tear up the Constitution, and declare America a dictatorship.

I see us in a dictatorship today.

32 posted on 03/25/2012 7:50:34 PM PDT by Digger (If RINO is your selection then failure is your election)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
Sorry, this is so unconstitutional that even a leftist judge can’t have any doubts about this.

This is a joke, correct? If not, you don't know what a leftist is.

33 posted on 03/25/2012 7:53:30 PM PDT by Digger (If RINO is your selection then failure is your election)
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To: Jean S

Dictator Baby-Doc Barack has ALWAYS ignored The US Constitution, ESPECIALLY with Obama”care.”

The cancer of Obama”care” now extends to Obama last week choosing a “Public health expert” for the World Bank Presidency.
_______

The major problem with THE NINE SUPREMES is that they are chosen for political reasons by the POTUS, and then they vote as an un-accountable democracy, for a Nation that is NOT a Democracy, but a REPUBLIC.

As a result, THE NINE SUPREMES commonly vote 5 to 4 on most issues. Constitutionality is seldom a consideration, and their up-coming ruling on Obama”care” will prove my point.

Now is the time to stand and deliver to address our grievances to the dictates of the Left.

Oppose the dictates of Dictator Baby-Doc Barack!

Our ONLY chance to ABOLISH Obama”care” rests with THE NINE SUPREMES, because Romney will be defeated by Obama.

IMHO, if Romney is anointed as the RNC Nominee, THE main issue in the National Election, Obama”care,” will be taken off the campaign table. Hence, Romney will not only lose, but suffer another crushing, and sadly typical, RINO defeat.

To those who want poster ideas, here are a few ideas for demonstration posters:

Obama”care” was robo-signed by Congress, and is therefore illegal.

Obama”care” was 2700 pages long, and is still being written, but not by Congress: witness the forced contraception coverage recently added by HHS Regulators.

Obama”care” has caused “The Catholic Spring.”

Obama”care” reduces competition, and therefore is illegal by the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law.

Obama”care” is designed to be a US Federal Government monopoly, with no competition.

Obama”care” also is illegal according to the US Constitution, because it violates our freedom of choice.

Will THE NINE SUPREMES notice any of these three violations? I seriously doubt it.

Impeached Bill Clinton proved that the US President is above US Federal Law, so anything that the President wants he gets, regardless of the Federal Laws that he has violated.


34 posted on 03/25/2012 8:01:43 PM PDT by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: Sans-Culotte

What are your thoughts on the article?


35 posted on 03/25/2012 8:53:27 PM PDT by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: Clintonfatigued; AuH2ORepublican; GOPsterinMA; BillyBoy; fieldmarshaldj; justiceseeker93

We need a Republican President and Senate and for Ruth Ginsburg to go to go where all dogs go so we can be done with this 5-4 crap.

Sorry, harsh, what can I say.

According to an editorial I just read from the Tampa Bay times the ABA says 85% of Supreme Court Experts they polled think Kennedy will be a little bitch and uphold Clement Attlee’s wild ride.

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/article1221580.ece


36 posted on 03/25/2012 9:35:41 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: Impy
The article gave equal billing to Justice Scalia, as well. Two appeals court justices, both friends of Scalia, cited his opinion in Raich to uphold Obamacare. See:

http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?a=rp&m=b&postId=1165037.

37 posted on 03/25/2012 11:19:51 PM PDT by Ken H (Austerity is the irresistible force. Entitlements are the immovable object.)
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To: Ken H; Clintonfatigued; AuH2ORepublican

If Scalia doesn’t vote with us that would be super lame.


38 posted on 03/25/2012 11:41:07 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: SeekAndFind

If you think what ails Amerika will be solved politically at the ballot box, you are delusional.

There’s no fix to giving imbeciles the right to vote except letting it collapse and starting from scratch.

Doesn’t matter what happens in November, the sooner the collapse happens, the sooner we can pick up the pieces and take out the trash.

Obama is a direct result of the transformation over the last 100 years of America from a republic to a democracy, in which every one has the right to vote.

It’s all over but the shouting, the collapse is inevitable:

Our Founding Fathers and others speak out

Democracy: a government of the masses. Authority derived thru mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in Mobacracy. Attitude toward property is communist - negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion. prejudice and impulse without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

Republic: Authority is derived thru the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobacracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment and progress. Is the standard form of government throughout the world.

Benjamin Franklin: When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Papers: We are a Republican Government, Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of democracy...it has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.

John Adams: Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.

Thomas Jefferson: A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%.

James Madison: Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death.

John Quincy Adams: The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived.

Thomas Jefferson: The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

Benjamin Franklin (maybe): Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

James Madison: Democracy was the right of the people to choose their own tyrant.

John Adams: That the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of the history of the world.

Thomas Jefferson: All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that through the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression.

John Witherspoon: Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state - it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage.

James Madison: We may define a republic to be - a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure for a limited period, or during good behavior. It is essential to such a government that it be derived from the great body of the society, not from an inconsiderable proportion or a favored class of it: otherwise a handful of tyrannical nobles, exercising their oppressions by a delegation of their powers, might aspire to the rank of republicans and claim for their government the honorable title of republic.

John Marshall: Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.

Oscar Wilde: Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.

Winston Churchill: The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

Sydney J Harris: Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be.

G. K., Chesterton: Democracy means government by the uneducated, while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.

George Bernard Shaw: Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

Dr Laurence J Peter: Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame.

Alan Coren: Democracy consists of choosing your dictators after they’ve told you what you think it is you want to hear.

Karl Marx: Democracy is the road to socialism.

And there you have it. I have nearly 500 quotes from our Founding Fathers to clearly debunk the retarded liberals that say we are a Democracy.

Posted by Mark Harvey aka Snooper at 12/01/2008 02:19:00 PM


39 posted on 03/25/2012 11:48:09 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Rick Santorum voted against Right toWork)
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To: Signalman

Its Not the Government its 4 Black robed Jackasses that should not even be listening to any of this Crap,4 Aholes are going to Pass Judgement on such a Fundemental issue to our Freedom is BS


40 posted on 03/26/2012 4:03:53 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: Digger

“This is a joke, correct? If not, you don’t know what a leftist is.”

I am fully aware what a leftist is. I also know when they have to cut their losses.

The only way this can be constitutional is if Obama calls this a tax. They are basing their entire strategy on SCOTUS agreeing. That will cost Obama the Presidency and then Congress kills this next year. By the time SCOTUS takes it up again after the ACLU and every lefty organization gets their two cents in, the program would be fully dismantled.

Even the lefties on SCOTUS wouldn’t vote for something so blatantly unconstitutional unless the votes to kill it are their and they need to serve the base with a dissenting voice.

So maybe 6-3, 5-4 if the administration wants the drama of villifying SCOTUS as extreme right wing and that’s what the Rats will use election time.

Personally, I think Obama wants to lose this fight in SCOTUS so he can use it as a political tool to blame the Republicans for why grandma will no longer have health care. Think about it. He took 500 billion out of medicare for this and that money is gone. Plus by screwing the doctors, they can lay that blame on the Republicans also.


41 posted on 03/26/2012 4:49:55 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Solyent Pink is Sheeple!!!!)
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To: Impy; AuH2ORepublican; GOPsterinMA; BillyBoy; fieldmarshaldj; justiceseeker93; little jeremiah

I recall that Thurgood Marshall retired during the a Republican administration due to age and that Ruth Ginsburg does that same after Obama is defeated.


42 posted on 03/26/2012 5:00:46 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued (A chameleon belongs in a pet store, not the White House)
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To: Impy; Clintonfatigued; AuH2ORepublican; BillyBoy; fieldmarshaldj; justiceseeker93

Don’t put stock in an editorial from a leftist rag. You’re smarter than that.

This will be another 5-4 in our favor.


43 posted on 03/26/2012 5:15:47 AM PDT by GOPsterinMA (Has Mittens won one "Red State" yet?)
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To: Rome2000

RE: If you think what ails Amerika will be solved politically at the ballot box, you are delusional.

OK, so let’s say conservatives don’t vote at all because the nominee is not what they like.... what’s the alternative?


44 posted on 03/26/2012 6:04:49 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (question)
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To: Impy

Dogs go to heaven and I don’t think Ruth is headed in that direction.


45 posted on 03/26/2012 3:36:59 PM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Obama is Romney lite)
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To: W. W. SMITH; GOPsterinMA

Yeah I know but it was too good a euphemism for me to pass up. ;)


46 posted on 03/26/2012 4:23:32 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Its not about what happens in this election, it’s too late,there is no alternative, it’s over, been that way since 1865, the pace is just accelerating.

The Republic is dead, Washington is the enemy, this is just death rattle.


47 posted on 03/26/2012 4:24:51 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Rick Santorum voted against Right toWork)
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To: Impy; W. W. SMITH; Clintonfatigued; fieldmarshaldj
I've been tinkering with the thought that perhaps the bullsh*t charade of SCOTUS Independence should be lifted and SCOTUS “Justices” should serve only during the tern of whatever POTUS nominates then. Make them glorified US Attorneys. A new POTUS brings in a new slate of SCOTUS "Justices".

Yes, we'll lose great legal scholars like Antonin Scalia and Samuel Alito, but we'll also lose f*cking losers like the four Marxists on the bench today.

No one deserves a lifetime appointment; not even members of the Jedi Council and most certianly not some of the garbage sitting on the SCOTUS today. No way.

48 posted on 03/26/2012 4:35:12 PM PDT by GOPsterinMA (Has Mittens won one "Red State" yet?)
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To: GOPsterinMA

Supreme Court Justices can be impeached and there have been instances where congress should have done so.


49 posted on 03/26/2012 5:08:29 PM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Obama is Romney lite)
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To: GOPsterinMA; BillyBoy; AuH2ORepublican; fieldmarshaldj; Clintonfatigued

Some years ago I think it was Billyboy who suggested we elect Federal Judges including SCOTUS instead of appointing them. Most states elect Judges, here in IL the races are partisan, up in WI they are “non-partisan”. We could stop pretending the Court isn’t political.

In any case they should not serve for life, I never liked that, but a limited tenure would effect both sides.


50 posted on 03/26/2012 5:20:36 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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