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Witnesses Back Up Zimmerman's Account Of Attack In Trayvon Martin Shooting, Police Say
Orlando Sentinel ^ | 3/26/12 8:33 p.m. EST | RENE STUTZMAN

Posted on 03/27/2012 5:32:25 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the neighborhood watch volunteer who eventually shot to death the unarmed 17-year-old, then climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities told The Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities said.

(Excerpt) Read more at articles.orlandosentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: account; attack; martin; police; shooting; trayvon; trayvonassaults; trayvonmartin; witnesses; zimmerman; zimmermans
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To: muawiyah

A grand jury would laugh you out of the grand jury room.


151 posted on 03/27/2012 7:09:40 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: muawiyah

You should take note that if you physically assault someone you run the risk of picking on the wrong guy. This time it was a guy with a Concealed Carry permit. At that point race, age & size don’t matter too much. Unfortunately, Treyvon seems to think he had “no limits”, judging by his Twitter account name. He found out differently. I pray for his family AND the Zimmermans. Even without the media circus, Zimmermans life will never be the same. He will always remember the night he feared for his life to the point that he had to take another life.


152 posted on 03/27/2012 7:12:52 AM PDT by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: patriot08

old white people don’t count?

Obamacare will get the old ones outrageous the so they never get to 80.


153 posted on 03/27/2012 7:17:28 AM PDT by Gasshog (going to get what all those libs asked for, but its not what they expected.)
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To: heartwood
“He should have never followed Martin in the explosive frame of mind he was in”

You can discern his “frame of mind”? Thank you for that Karnak!

154 posted on 03/27/2012 7:17:56 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: heartwood
Your description of the situation is well supported by all the known facts. However, no one but Zimmerman knows when he pulled his gun, or displayed it, or transferred it from his holster to his pocket, or whatever the devil he did ~ and he's not saying.

I'd imagine by now his lawyer has told him about saying things to the cops.

The Florida law is the issue ~ and that law certainly applied to Martin who was minding his own business and obeying the law at the time (virtually all those issues have been settled in the debates as additional information has come in about where he was going ~ to wit, to a townhouse in the development ~ to which he had a right to go).

We have a number of Freepers who seem to not believe that Martin was protected by the law ~ unfortunately.

155 posted on 03/27/2012 7:24:41 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: jdsteel

Regarding the Twitter Account, there’s no confirmation from any responsible source that it belonged to this Trayvon.


156 posted on 03/27/2012 7:24:48 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Well, not everyone has your great luck of NOT being attacked in the wee hours of the morning.

Those who aren’t as fortunate are presented with a choice... fight or possibly die.


157 posted on 03/27/2012 7:27:52 AM PDT by ScottinVA (A single drop of American blood for muslims is one drop too many!)
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To: heartwood
“But he is yelling repeatedly for help for quite a while, and then there is a changed yell - more anguished if you will and I am not sure whose voice it is. There is a loud bang that is not the shot. Then comes the shot. This is recorded on the witnesses’ 911 calls.”

The eyewitness, John, who was closest to the attack, (it was right outside his window) said it was definitely Zimmerman calling for help. He saw and heard Zimmerman.

The loud bang was likely in the apartment of the caller, herself and the male in the apartment can be clearly heard moving around in the apartment making noise. I guess you are hinting at a second gun shot, that never happened.

I will rely on the eye AND ear witness, John, who was looking at what he was hearing, instead of an ear only witness, cowering in fear in her apartment, talking and making noise while ear witnessing.

158 posted on 03/27/2012 7:30:04 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: muawiyah
So if no gun what happens? Mister sarcasm...up and till the shot who is assaulting who smart ass.....the 911 tape has Zimmerman yelling for help over and over before the shot...he did not just start shooting....per Zimmerman he did not pull the gun it was in his waistband and became exposed in the fight ..martin and Zimmerman fought for it...and the evidence shows that martin had his hand on the gun wen it fired...the slide was held from cycling a new round after it fired a cut from the slide on martin hand.....so i guess Zimmerman should of just let martin take the gun...how would that have ended...would that make you happy?
159 posted on 03/27/2012 7:31:17 AM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: CAluvdubya

From what I have read, it was a “wanted alive” posting.
Just read that one of their main people was arrested for carrying a firearm, and he is a convicted felon. I wonder how many of them have no arrest record at all.


160 posted on 03/27/2012 7:31:39 AM PDT by Rannug ("God has given it to me, let him who touches it beware.")
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To: netmilsmom
I noticed that later ~ Martin, of course, had no recording ~ I'd speculated earlier that if he'd had an Iphone and Cloud he might well have made a photo of Zimmerman and that could be lurking out there for later use, or not, as Martin's family might chose.

There is a later phone call with Martin's girlfriend who recounts her call with Martin as he walked down the road on his return to the townhouse where he was staying.

That call came shortly after the release of the 911 tapes. She takes us up to the point where the call is cut off.

161 posted on 03/27/2012 7:32:46 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Silentgypsy

You people really aren’t as silent as you imagine if you want to know the truth.


162 posted on 03/27/2012 7:32:52 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
However, no one but Zimmerman knows when he pulled his gun, or displayed it, or transferred it from his holster to his pocket, or whatever the devil he did ~ and he's not saying.

He may not be saying publicly, but I am positive he gave such details to the police, which they put into a report.

The Florida law is the issue ~ and that law certainly applied to Martin who was minding his own business

What law are you talking about? This was not "Stand your ground," but rather, self-defense per the city manager statement:

"When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.

According to Florida Statute 776.032 : 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful."

163 posted on 03/27/2012 7:33:14 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Clintonfatigued

“None of this means that George Zimmerman is an innocent victim, however. He did provoke the confrontation.”

With your logic, policeman killed in the line of duty, “PROVOKED the confrontation”, hence they deserved what they got.

First of all, he didn’t provoke anything. Second, even if he did, it doesn’t give anyone the right to assault him.


164 posted on 03/27/2012 7:37:20 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: muawiyah
That call came shortly after the release of the 911 tapes. She takes us up to the point where the call is cut off.

Her call was not recorded and exactly when did she come forward with her information--about one month after the event happened and after the release of the 911 calls, which raises some questions in terms of what was actually said.

165 posted on 03/27/2012 7:37:34 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
Zimmerman's statement is not evidence or proof of anything.

It is, in legal parlance, a 'self-serving statement'. The legal system in the US operates under the assumption that nobody will lie to inculpate himself in a criminal matter but that most people will lie to excuplate themselves and avoid or lessen consequences of their actions.

In some jurisdictions a self-serving statement may not be admitted in court unless there are neutral corroborating witness statements or evidence such as a security video.

Maybe Zimmerman's statement is truthful...I don't know, you don't know and the legal system does not consider it evidence or proof.

166 posted on 03/27/2012 7:44:24 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: muawiyah

Your imagination is on display. You merited an armed guard? Was the guard someone who was assigned to escorting workers to their vehicles? There are readers whose scope of experience enables them to assess your reality orientation and your veracity. “You people?” Can you recognize the truth?
You look silly.


167 posted on 03/27/2012 7:46:21 AM PDT by Silentgypsy
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To: Jeff Head
Apparently Trayvon did not like being followed, so much so that he was willing to confront and attack Zimmerman.

_______________________________

Apparently? You are better than this.

168 posted on 03/27/2012 7:48:01 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: muawiyah
You just can't go anywhere these days without being filmed.

THIS is your solution? A SURVEILLANCE STATE? No thanks. I will be armed, and will defend myself with LETHAL FORCE. The decent state I live in encourages it. I will pop any Trayyyyyyvon who attacks me.

And take your witch hunt for Zimmerman over to DU. It (and arguably you) don't belong on FR.

169 posted on 03/27/2012 7:49:00 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: wtc911
Maybe Zimmerman's statement is truthful...I don't know, you don't know and the legal system does not consider it evidence or proof.

Apparently, the Sanford police bought it. Zimmerman has not been arrested, or even charged with anything.

170 posted on 03/27/2012 7:50:35 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: muawiyah
I see the problem here! Security sees a suspicious person, follows him. Calls it in, and then gets attacked by the person he was following. The attacked security guard shoots him dead.

It is like the dish network commercial ...

[i]kid writes on the school locker and get suspended

[ii]kid brings an empty plastic bag and a pipe to school and gets suspended again

[iii] kid goes and stays with dad's girlfriend

[iv]kid jumps security guard and gets shot.

Message, don't write graffiti on the locker and bring pot pipes to school and you won't get shot at your dad's girlfriend's house by security guard you jumped.

171 posted on 03/27/2012 7:52:51 AM PDT by Why So Serious (There is no cure for stupidity!!!)
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To: Clint N. Suhks; Travis McGee; Twink

typical black guy sucker punch...now adopted by all thugs

that and the multiple gang up attack are something I learned 40-50 years ago in public school in Mississippi when forced busing too place (1969)

7th grade

some had no honour or shame

amazing how I have known this forever and some here act like they just figured it out

i still defended the black race down south for another 20 years in my idealism...youthful dreams die hard


172 posted on 03/27/2012 7:53:57 AM PDT by wardaddy (I am a social conservative. My political party left me(again). They can go to hell in a bucket.)
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To: faucetman

Listen to his 911 tape. His words “a———, they always get away.” Either “f——— punks” or “f——— coons.” His voice is shaking at some points. Those are objective FACTS.

Any reasonable person will infer frustration and anger, agitation.


173 posted on 03/27/2012 7:54:27 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: muawiyah
We have a number of Freepers who seem to not believe that Martin was protected by the law ~ unfortunately.

Martin WAS protected by law, right up until when he assaulted Zimmerman. That first punch made Martin the aggressor, put Zimmerman in danger of great bodily harm or death, and justified Zimmerman blowing Martin's brains out.

Whether you like it or not, that's how the cops see it, and that's how the grand jury will see it.

174 posted on 03/27/2012 7:55:16 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
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To: kabar
“Let the evidence all come out rather that trying to speculate what may or may not be the facts?”

Much evidence and facts are already out.

Zimmerman had a broken nose, and bloody injury to the back of his head.

The back of Zimmerman's shirt was wet and had grass or grass stains on it.

The eye and ear witness, John, saw Trayvon beating Zimmerman. (the attack happened right outside his window)

The eye and ear witness, John, heard Zimmerman (no question it was Zimmerman) crying out for help.

The police did not arrest Zimmerman, and returned the gun to Zimmerman.

175 posted on 03/27/2012 7:57:15 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Travis McGee

I don’t personally dislike the poster in question and have had ok contact at times

but have noticed he or she often takes the “safe” side on issues that involve race or other minority stuff...we have a some here like that...fewer than before but if you go to any southern thread there they are

so I am not surprised

that poster is quite wrong on this one

we don’t know every single fact on this deal...but now we likely won;t given the circus

but if indeed someone is bashing you into concrete and you have a weapon you do not have to endure it


176 posted on 03/27/2012 8:00:20 AM PDT by wardaddy (I am a social conservative. My political party left me(again). They can go to hell in a bucket.)
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To: faucetman

No, not a second gunshot. I didn’t know if the bang was outside or in the apartment. If there are other 911 calls at the same time that will be clear.

Here is a list of transcripts, not sure it if it includes John’s.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/911-calls-paint-picture-of-chaos-after-florida-teen-is-shot/


177 posted on 03/27/2012 8:00:20 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: wtc911
It is, in legal parlance, a 'self-serving statement'. The legal system in the US operates under the assumption that nobody will lie to inculpate himself in a criminal matter but that most people will lie to excuplate themselves and avoid or lessen consequences of their actions.

First, are you insinuating that Zimmerman is lying? You can discount Zimmerman's statement all you want, but he has the right to explain the circumstances surrounding the incident from his perspective. The physical evidence appears to support his version of events along with other eyewitness testimony. The facts will determine the veracity of Zimmerman's statement.

In some jurisdictions a self-serving statement may not be admitted in court unless there are neutral corroborating witness statements or evidence such as a security video.

That is a laughable statement on its face. I have served as a member of a jury in a murder case. The idea that the accused cannot submit a statement in their defense is pure nonsense. Do you have any source to support such an assertion? Are you a lawyer?

Maybe Zimmerman's statement is truthful...I don't know, you don't know and the legal system does not consider it evidence or proof.

If that statement is supported by fact and witnesses, it is part of the evidence or proof. So far, the police have not arrested Zimmerman because his version of events is supported by physical evidence and eyewitness testimony. The burden of proof falls on the state, not the accused, to prove he is innocent. That is the way our justice system is supposed to work. You are innocent until proven guilty.

178 posted on 03/27/2012 8:10:01 AM PDT by kabar
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To: faucetman

The police handcuffed Zimmerman and put him in the squad car to take to the police station. Technically not an arrest as they didn’t say “You are under arrest” and read him his rights.

They took his gun at the seen and still have it for evidence.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-23/news/os-trayvon-martin-questions-20120323_1_sanford-cops-sanford-police-investigator-suspicious-death


179 posted on 03/27/2012 8:11:58 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: heartwood

seen = scene


180 posted on 03/27/2012 8:12:42 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: Clint N. Suhks

The big boss man got arrested..

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2864345/posts


181 posted on 03/27/2012 8:13:07 AM PDT by halfright (Just a serf in the Kingdom of Zero)
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To: faucetman
I agree, but with lynch mobs led by Sharpton and Jackson, a a bounty being put on Zimmerman's head by the New Black Panther Party, the President of the United States getting involved, it is important to get all the facts out and to let the judicial system work. Hopefully, it will not be influenced by the trial in the court of public opinion that is now going on.

I have seen nothing so far that indicates that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. The police have come to the same conclusion so far.

182 posted on 03/27/2012 8:15:31 AM PDT by kabar
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To: headsonpikes; muawiyah
muawiyah is OK. Been here many years as you say. Everyone's entitled to their position.

I've got a close friend who's conservative on most things, but is adamantly opposed to capital punishment. He's also strongly pro-life, and he won't budge on the issue of guilt or innocence. I've talked to him about it many times. He won't change his position and that's that. But I still like him very much.

183 posted on 03/27/2012 8:17:23 AM PDT by Steely Tom (Obama goes on long after the thrill of Obama is gone)
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To: heartwood
“Listen to his 911 tape. “

I have, and I don't hear what you do. “The a holes always get away”, yes the trespassers or f ing punks always do get away. “Coon”??? No way is that what he said. It is unintelligible, I don't hear “coon”.

In ANY case, you do not know what is in someones mind. My hearing of the tape does not lead me where your hearing does.

Even IF you were correct (you are not) IT DOESN'T MATTER. Following, chasing, confronting, all legal. The assault by the punk Trayvon, is what was illegal and lead to his death.

184 posted on 03/27/2012 8:18:04 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Why So Serious

Wow! You should write Geico commercials. That was good!


185 posted on 03/27/2012 8:18:51 AM PDT by Silentgypsy
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To: kabar

wtc911 is persisently confused, even after being shown that the rules of evidence regarding “self serving statements” apply to admissible hearsay evidence; and have no application whatsoever to direct evidence.


186 posted on 03/27/2012 8:24:45 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Steely Tom

I agree with your perspective, Tom.

All of my friends are more left-wing or progressive or socialist, whatever, than me. I’ve gotten used to it.

I am represented in Parliament by a lefty NDPer who worked as a Russian translator in the civil service; my neighbours mostly think he is barely lefty enough, so I am familiar with the left-liberal species.

Luckily, we Canadians mostly hold ourselves to public politeness, and an affable spirit results in settlements like my little crosshatch in the Empty Quarter. On a website such as this, however, I do enjoy the opportunity to be as snarkily cruel as I please occasionally.

FReegards,

hop


187 posted on 03/27/2012 8:38:22 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: heartwood
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

The best video and best evidence is at the link above or below. Better than any 911 call recording because you can't be sure what you are hearing on those.

Video at upper left corner has the reporter standing on the spot where Trayvon was shot. Shows you from there just how close the windows that eye witness John saw and heard the event. They interview John on air and he tells what he saw and heard.

This is by far, is the best evidence in defense of Zimmerman. He saw and heard it up close. You can see for yourself just how close he was to the event. No other witness has this perspective.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

188 posted on 03/27/2012 8:39:17 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: kabar
If that statement is supported by fact and witnesses, it is part of the evidence or proof. So far, the police have not arrested Zimmerman because his version of events is supported by physical evidence and eyewitness testimony.

______________________________________

Please provide links to the "eyewitness testimony" that you say supports Zimmerman's claim that he was attacked by Martin. I bet you can't.

Since there is no known corroborating neutral witness, Zimmerman's statement is, by legal definition, self-serving. There are dozens of easily found cases wherein such statements have been deemed inadmissable.

Here's one at the Appellate level...

"In retrial of interstate kidnapping resulting in death case, trial court did not err under FRE 106 Rule of Completeness in excluding self-serving exculpatory statements of the defendant or hearsay statements by his attorney in a recorded jailhouse phone call, parts of which had been offered by the prosecution regarding the defendant’s plan to kill certain witnesses, because FRE 106 does not render otherwise inadmissible evidence admissible, in United States v. Lentz, 524 F.3d 501 (4th Cir. May 12, 2008) (No. 06-4691)"

You can research if you like...or not. It won't change things.

Scriptura pro scribente nihil probat.

189 posted on 03/27/2012 8:43:54 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: muawiyah
Have you listened to Zimmerman's OWN 911 calls?

I did.

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that Zimmerman was following Marting "for several minutes" -- which, btw, transcripts indicate he didn't -- is Martin allowed to turn and assault Zimmerman?

If Martin continues to beat Zimmerman while he is on the ground calling for help would that not be the illegitimate use of force in just about any circumstance? Is banging someone's head on the ground potentially life threatening? Is not Zimmerman allowed to defend himself?

If the latest info turns out to be accurate -- which is not a certainty, I'll grant -- then Zimmerman acted in self-defense and Martin's death can only be blamed on Martin.

190 posted on 03/27/2012 8:45:50 AM PDT by Tribune7 (GAS WAS $1.85 per gallon on the day Obama was Inaugurated! - - freeper Gaffer)
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To: Cboldt
Gee, I thought you were tired of me...now here you are talking behind my back...classy.

btw...you might want to read post 189....then argue that self-serving statements are not considered to be inadmissable...but you should direct your argument to the US 4th Circuit Court of Appeals...it is their ruling.

191 posted on 03/27/2012 8:47:52 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Bookmark.


192 posted on 03/27/2012 8:48:28 AM PDT by PalmettoMason (South Carolinians need to start choosing a primary challenger to Nikki Haley NOW!!!!!!!)
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To: Georgia Girl 2
If as reported that Zimmerman was walking away and was then attacked, he is the Victim. If Zimmerman attacked Travon then Travon is the victim. If Zimmerman was walking away, when and if he was attacked, that makes Travon the stalker.

What ever the truth is has become irrelevant as the far left and some black leaders have taken up this “cause celeb-re” to advance their own agenda. Ironically when it is no longer politically advantageous to the left, there will be two victims, Travon and Zimmerman both.

193 posted on 03/27/2012 8:51:50 AM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: muawiyah

I think you are miss characterizing what the majority of people here are saying. Being followed or watched is not grounds for punching someone. He may not have liked being followed or watched but he had no right to attack. If he was so frightened by Zimmerman’s behavior why approach him. You can be somewhere you have a right to be, doing nothing wrong, and still be suspicious. Many times I have been places working late at night to finish some aspect of a construction project I was working on only to have the police show up because someone thought it was suspicious that a truck was pulled up to a job site late at night and a guy was loading tools. The correct response was to always explain politely that I was working late and give the name and number of the builder. Whether Zimmerman was a member of the neighborhood watch or just a concerned citizen makes no difference. He had a right to call in a suspicious person to the police. It also could be that this Zimmerman had a hair trigger when it came to calling things in. That still would not justify an attack, which the evidence seems to indicate happened. There’s no indication from what I have read that Zimmerman was breaking any laws so the comment that some freepers think that Martin was not protected by the law is not correct.


194 posted on 03/27/2012 8:53:02 AM PDT by albionin
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To: heartwood
He wasn't arrested period. Trying to claim “almost arrested” is silly. You are arrested or you're not.

IF, the report you linked is true, I would be wrong about police returning the gun, BUT it says “The gun is now in the possession of authorities, officially part of the evidence in the case.”

There is no reference to how they know this. A link to the official who supposedly said this would be helpful.

The horses mouth so to speak. We know the media lies. Trust but verify.

195 posted on 03/27/2012 8:53:18 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: wtc911
-- Gee, I thought you were tired of me. --

I am. You were wrong before, and you are now. I was trying to save kabar some time.

196 posted on 03/27/2012 8:54:01 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: muawiyah
There is no problem...

Doesn't matter how old the thug was...Doesn't matter what color he was...Doesn't even matter what the gender was...He needed to be stopped...By the first effective means available...Would have been great had there been some people there to pull the thug off the victim...That wasn't to be...

Likely the thug had experience with this type of activity in the past...It was his misfortune that this time he attacked a victim who was carrying a weapon...

I like to think of the people who now will not have to go thru a brutal beating, or murder by this thug in the future..I have much sympathy for his family however...

197 posted on 03/27/2012 8:57:13 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Cboldt
Wrong? Argue with the 4th Circuit --- the decision I posted says I'm right. It is written in very plain language. But, if you have any difficulty understanding the wording of the court, let me know and I'll dumb it down for you.

Or, how about you support your position with provable facts based on actual case law. I'll wait.

198 posted on 03/27/2012 8:59:18 AM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: muawiyah
Before you call that 'blaming the victim', Zimmerman had a pistol on him and imagined that made him safe.

It did...It saved his life...

199 posted on 03/27/2012 9:00:06 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: faucetman

Thanks for the link.

John does not say he saw the start of the fight. He saw it in progress, with Martin on top.

He locked his patio door and ran up his interior stairs, called 911, heard a shot, went to the window, and saw Martin lying on the grass.

So he did not see the actual shooting and the point at which the battle turned, or see who was doing the yelling and screaming at that time.

I’m GUESSING that Zimmerman took a number of punches without drawing his gun, knowing that the police were on the way, but at some point he thought he was going to be seriously injured or killed before the police got there (head bashed into the sidewalk?)

But the legal question is still - who started the fight?


200 posted on 03/27/2012 9:01:39 AM PDT by heartwood
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