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Cain Swirling rhetoric War of Words in Trayvon case must stop facts are needed before rushing
cainconnections.com ^ | 26 March, 2012 | Herman Cain

Posted on 03/27/2012 7:59:39 AM PDT by marktwain

Former Republican presidential candidate and businessman Herman Cain told The Daily Caller he’s concerned that the facts of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin’s killing may be getting lost amid the heated political and racial rhetoric surrounding the case.

“Where is the investigation?” Cain said in an email to TheDC. “That is the question that should be asked, and answered, before all of this ‘swirling rhetoric’ creates an even more tense situation out of this very tragic incident. We need a complete investigation and all the facts, not a premature ‘War of Words.’”

Cain added that were there are some troubling questions about how police initially handled Martin’s death, the facts need to come out before the American people rush to judgment.

“On the surface, it appears this was a senseless killing,” Cain said. “And it appears as if the suspect was not taken into custody. It appears there wasn’t an immediate or thorough investigation.”

“I’m not an investigator, but I believe all the facts should be out on the table before we draw any more conclusions in this case,” he continued.

African-American conservative commentator Deneen Borelli told TheDC she thinks Martin Luther King, Jr. wouldn’t “condone” the way some activists have handled the Martin shooting.

“He [King] would never condone what Spike Lee has done, who tweeted Zimmerman’s address,” Borelli, the author of “BlackLash,” a book critical of tactics employed by some progressives in situations where race may be a factor, said. “He would not condone President Obama’s comments and Al Sharpton injecting himself into this situation the way that he has. This is something that Martin Luther King would absolutely not stand for.”


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; blacklash; cain; deneenborelli; freedomworks; georgezimmerman; project21; trayvonmartin
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To: miss marmelstein

The credibility of the investigation, the Sanford PD, the DA, the City, etc. would be in a shambles if even one iota of those spurious, unsupported and outlandish claims were true.

Even Bo’R isn’t that damned stupid to make up some fantastical claims such as this. The race war would already be on if true.

I read where Mr. Zimmerman couldn’t stop crying in the back of the police cruiser and for hours afterwards.

Many firearms instructors, police and others with experience in these matters will tell you that this is a normal response for a rational and decent person who has been forced to take another human’s life.

“Laughing with the police.”?? Like hell.


51 posted on 03/27/2012 12:07:50 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: drbuzzard
>Once Zimmerman chose to go beyond his duties as Neighborhood Watch and leave his vehicle on foot, he became the aggressor

You have a completely twisted definition of aggressor. Zimmerman didn’t do anything aggressive. He followed someone. Following someone isn’t aggressive


He followed Martin ON FOOT. That is the aggression. Following and observing in his vehicle was okay. Getting out of the vehicle turned things into something else. Follow the logic

And the police dispatcher saw trouble coming and advised Zimmerman to stay in his car.
52 posted on 03/27/2012 12:20:21 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: SZonian

Thanks for the update. He was cuffed, right? I thought so. I love the boob who is outraged that somebody was smoking! Who wouldn’t smoke after that nightmare?

WABC is happily reporting that it was prosecutors who got the cops to drop the case, not the cops. They are reporting this as if it was something new and shiny. They are determined to get this guy.


53 posted on 03/27/2012 12:21:23 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: drbuzzard
Let me explain something simple to you in the hope you will grasp it. Following someone isn’t aggression. That’s all Zimmerman did.

How do you know that is all he did? What evidence can you provide that Zimmerman didn't have some sort of verbal exchange with Martin that led to the physical fight and Zimmerman drawing the weapon he was carrying?

Nothing would have happened had Zimmerman stayed in the car and let the police handle things
54 posted on 03/27/2012 12:24:08 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Rooivalk

>He followed Martin ON FOOT. That is the aggression. Following and observing in his vehicle was okay. Getting out of the vehicle turned things into something else. Follow the logic

Cite any relevant statute which states that following someone on foot is either illegal or aggressive.

Good luck with that.

>And the police dispatcher saw trouble coming and advised Zimmerman to stay in his car.

We’ve dealt with that enough times that it doesn’t bear repeating. A suggestion is just a suggestion.

Once again, the key point- who threw the first punch?

You’re just dancing around and avoiding the key issue.


55 posted on 03/27/2012 12:26:46 PM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: miss marmelstein

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

Page 3 of the pdf clearly details Mr. Zimmerman in CUSTODY and transported to the PD for interrogation.

Yet, somehow, according to our resident “expert”, he’s “laughing and smoking” with the police officers.

More of the released information here:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html


56 posted on 03/27/2012 12:32:25 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: SZonian
Post the link to the story that you claim supports your claim. And again I ask the question:

Why wasn't Zimmerman given a field sobriety test? Was he under the influence of something? What can you tell us about that?

Why wasn't Zimmerman's weapon seized and held as part of the investigation? I have first hand knowledge of that procedure and know that anytime you discharge a firearm in something as serious as this shooting the police take your weapon to conduct further testing. You will get the weapon back in a couple of months, but first the police have to do an investigation on a number of things


57 posted on 03/27/2012 12:33:49 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Rooivalk

>How do you know that is all he did? What evidence can you provide that Zimmerman didn’t have some sort of verbal exchange with Martin that led to the physical fight and Zimmerman drawing the weapon he was carrying?

There is a witness that backs up Zimmerman’s account that he was on his way back to his truck when Martin jumped him.

Witness >> your speculation.

>Nothing would have happened had Zimmerman stayed in the car and let the police handle things

Nothing would have happened if Martin had not thrown a punch.

Which action is actually violent? Following or punching?

This isn’t a trick question by the way.


58 posted on 03/27/2012 12:33:49 PM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: Rooivalk

You first sport. You made the claims, I’m asking for your source.

I just posted the link to the police report on another post. Now you get to back up your scurrilous claims against not only Mr. Zimmerman, but the investigating officers you smeared with your slander as well.

But as I’ve seen, you’re quite the dancer. Dancing around the questions posed to you.


59 posted on 03/27/2012 12:45:07 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: SZonian

I read that yesterday but completely forgot about it! There are so many details to absorb. I’m gonna read it again. Thanks for posting.


60 posted on 03/27/2012 12:46:20 PM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: Rooivalk
Following people ON FOOT is aggressive?

I've followed plenty of people ON FOOT. And never was I aggressive.

And I've had people follow me in cars / trucks....that I took to be aggressive.

Your logic is lacking..........

61 posted on 03/27/2012 12:51:34 PM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: drbuzzard
>How do you know that is all he did? What evidence can you provide that Zimmerman didn’t have some sort of verbal exchange with Martin that led to the physical fight and Zimmerman drawing the weapon he was carrying?

There is a witness that backs up Zimmerman’s account that he was on his way back to his truck when Martin jumped him.

Every witness that has come forth to date has claimed they only witnessed the LAST MOMENTS of the fight. Noone has come forth and said they witnessed Zimmerman's FIRST approach to Martin. Nor has anyone witnessed when Zimmerman FIRST emerged from his vehicle. So you are attempting to talk about things that noone has provided real evidence of. Nothing would have happened had Zimmerman stayed in the car and let the police handle things

Nothing would have happened if Martin had not thrown a punch.

Actually nothing would have happened had Zimmerman followed the advice of the police dispatcher and stayed in his vehicle. That seems to be some hard logic for you to accept.

Since Martin did not attack Zimmerman inside his vehicle there would never have been any "first punch" had Zimmerman not tried to engage Martin on foot.

Lets see you refute that fact
62 posted on 03/27/2012 12:52:42 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Rooivalk
"Why wasn't Zimmerman given a field sobriety test?"

Don't care.

"Was he under the influence of something?"

Don't care.

"What can you tell us about that?"

Not my claim to buttress.

"Why wasn't Zimmerman's weapon seized and held as part of the investigation?"

Don't care.

I'm waiting for your source that the police officers on scene and Mr. Zimmerman were "laughing and smoking" in the aftermath.

That Mr. Zimmerman was never placed into custody, to which, I posted a copy of the police report refuting your scurrilous accusations.

Now, when can I expect you to post the source(s) to your accusations against the Sanford PD officers and Mr. Zimmerman?

63 posted on 03/27/2012 1:01:23 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: drbuzzard
Cite any relevant statute which states that following someone on foot is either illegal or aggressive. Good luck with that.Anytime you follow or otherwise interfere with the legitimate progress of a person just walking down the street you are outside the law

Some call it stalking. And without any authority to follow on foot Martin, Zimmerman could be considered a stalker

>And the police dispatcher saw trouble coming and advised Zimmerman to stay in his car.

We’ve dealt with that enough times that it doesn’t bear repeating. A suggestion is just a suggestion.


So when the police tell you something you regard it as a "suggestion"? Please!

Once again, the key point- who threw the first punch?

There would have been no "first punch" had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Right? Zimmerman was not punched inside his car. So why was he on the streets where he could get punched?
64 posted on 03/27/2012 1:04:18 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: khelus

Thanks for the link. I couldn’t pull up 2 .pdfs.

It would be interesting to see the crime stats,... If Burglary rates fell after the shooting.


65 posted on 03/27/2012 1:06:12 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: SZonian
"Why wasn't Zimmerman given a field sobriety test?" Don't care. "Was he under the influence of something?" Don't care. "What can you tell us about that?" Not my claim to buttress. "Why wasn't Zimmerman's weapon seized and held as part of the investigation?" Don't care.

So what we have here is a BS sham "investigation" that is now being exposed as garbage and no where near the level of good police work

Routine police investigations after a life has been taken take into account all those things I listed and MORE.

And you wonder why people are howling for a true and through investigation? For police to just take the word of Zimmerman while the other half of the story lies silent in the morgue is total nonsense. The real story of Zimmerman's actions that night have yet to be told
66 posted on 03/27/2012 1:12:26 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: SZonian
Now, when can I expect you to post the source(s) to your accusations against the Sanford PD officers and Mr. Zimmerman?

To use your words when I posed questions to you: Don't Care
67 posted on 03/27/2012 1:15:31 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Osage Orange
Following people ON FOOT is aggressive? I've followed plenty of people ON FOOT. And never was I aggressive. And I've had people follow me in cars / trucks....that I took to be aggressive. Your logic is lacking..........

Have you ever followed a person when the police directly told you not to?

Didn't think so
68 posted on 03/27/2012 1:18:48 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Rooivalk
I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOUR OTHER BS...

I want to see the proof/source(s) of your slander against the Sanford PD officers and Mr. Zimmerman "laughing and smoking" after Martin was shot.

Dancing Queen

69 posted on 03/27/2012 1:19:45 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Rooivalk

SPIT.

You’ve slandered the Sanford PD and Mr. Zimmerman then.

Thanks for showing that you don’t have the sources to back up your claim.


70 posted on 03/27/2012 1:23:22 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Cvengr

You’re welcome.

I’d try again on the pdf’s. I was able to download them all. I suspect that by now word’s gotten out and that site has become very popular.

Yes those stats would very interesting.


71 posted on 03/27/2012 1:23:30 PM PDT by khelus
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To: SZonian
You first sport. You made the claims, I’m asking for your source. I just posted the link to the police report on another post. Now you get to back up your scurrilous claims against not only Mr. Zimmerman, but the investigating officers you smeared with your slander as well. But as I’ve seen, you’re quite the dancer. Dancing around the questions posed to you.

Here is a "report" from a police department that failed to give Zimmerman a blood alcohol test or at least a field sobriety test or a drug test and I am supposed to accept this?

Here is a "report" from a police department that didn't even seize Zimmerman's weapon for ballistic tests and I am supposed to accept their conclusions?

I have actually shot at a person after a foot pursuit and KNOW what is involved after you discharge a firearm in the city limits even when in fear of your life. Among other things it was six months before I recovered my handgun. And I didn't EVEN kill or wound the person I was chasing. LAPD was very professional that night.
72 posted on 03/27/2012 1:31:07 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: SZonian
SPIT. You’ve slandered the Sanford PD and Mr. Zimmerman then. Thanks for showing that you don’t have the sources to back up your claim.

Considering how you Zimmerman supporters have slandered this Martin kid I would say that I have done very little in comparison.

Zimmerman has not seen the last of this and I add my voice to the chorus of people demanding the truth and not having this thing swept under the rug.

There are two sides to this thing and Martin cannot tell his because Zimmerman silenced his voice
73 posted on 03/27/2012 1:37:14 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Rooivalk

I’ve done nothing of the kind. I support neither except the RULE OF LAW and there are some folks on both sides are going off the deep end. Being deliberately obtuse.

You made a claim, I challenged you on it and asked for your sources. Instead, you want to play kids games.

Should be VERY EASY for you to offer them up, yet, we’re still waiting.

Put up or shut up.


74 posted on 03/27/2012 1:40:41 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Rooivalk
"LAPD was very professional that night."

Did they "laugh and smoke" with you afterwards?

75 posted on 03/27/2012 1:42:35 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Rooivalk

Have you ever followed a person when the police directly told you not to?

The police did not tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin.

The dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow.

Big difference.


76 posted on 03/27/2012 1:43:31 PM PDT by trappedincanuckistan (livefreeordietryin)
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To: Rooivalk

Rooivalk, as a police officer, I am telling you that Martin or any other citizen has a right to follow any suspicious person in their neighborhood and yes, even ask them what they are doing or who they are. The person being asked has no legal obligation to answer. Absent a private peace disturbance (fighting words) directed at the suspicious person, they don’t have right to assault the questioner.

There is no evidence that Zimmerman said any fighting words, but there is evidence that Martin attacked him anyway.

They cannot physically detain them (citizens arrest) unless they have personally seen them commit a crime, usually a felony.

Zimmerman was a volunteer with nothing that was legally binding in his “job” as neighborhood watch captain other than the normal laws any one of us is bound by.

A dispatcher has no legal authority to tell ANYONE what they must do.

If Martin ran away from Zimmerman, he can easily argue that he only ran after Martin to observe his route of travel and destination, not to detain or confront. That is still WATCHING.


77 posted on 03/27/2012 1:43:45 PM PDT by Molon Labbie (A Bounty on Zimmerman, Can Be A Bounty On ANYONE. No NBBP Mob Justice!)
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To: Rooivalk
You ought to research that a bit more.....

Get back to me, when you have the facts.

Of course you didn't address my post one bit though..............

Seems reading back, that's your M.O.

78 posted on 03/27/2012 1:54:13 PM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: Rooivalk; All

“Why wasn’t Zimmerman’s weapon seized and held as part of the investigation?”

It was. It is still in their custody.

Read the police report. It is “Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report” under the Trayvon Martin Investigation at the link:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html


79 posted on 03/27/2012 2:14:09 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: trappedincanuckistan
The dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow.

Big difference.


The dispatcher asked, "Are you following him?" He said, "Yeah." The dispatcher said "Okay. We don't need you to do that." That's a polite way of saying, "Stay the f-ck away from the guy."

Big difference.
80 posted on 03/27/2012 2:15:21 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Rooivalk; All
“Actually nothing would have happened had Zimmerman followed the advice of the police dispatcher and stayed in his vehicle.”

Yes, that is true. It is also true that nothing would have happened if Trayvon Martin had stayed home. It is very likely nothing would have happened if Trayvon Martin's girlfriend had not called him, delaying him from going home, and likely making his appearance suspicious, as he was talking on a hands free device. Most people have seen someone that appears to be acting crazy, then finds out they are on a cell phone.

All of that, however, is irrelevant, because both Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman had every right to be in the public spaces that they were in, until the physical altercation started.

81 posted on 03/27/2012 2:19:10 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Rooivalk; All
“Here is a “report” from a police department that failed to give Zimmerman a blood alcohol test or at least a field sobriety test or a drug test and I am supposed to accept this?”

UPDATE: The Brady Campaign sent this statement to TheDC Monday evening: “It has now been reported that the Sanford Police Department is in possession of the gun that George Zimmerman used to shoot Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman, however, still has his concealed carry license and he still has the ability to buy a gun and carry it into public spaces.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2864425/posts

The initial police report also states that they took George Zimmerman's pistol and impounded it.

82 posted on 03/27/2012 2:25:46 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: aruanan

You need remedial English.

If you see no difference between `stay the f away from the guy` and `we don`t need you to follow` then there`s no point in having any kind of conversation.

Let me ask you this:

Were the police dispatcher`s words legally binding

Did Zimmerman break the law by exiting his truck


83 posted on 03/27/2012 2:33:53 PM PDT by trappedincanuckistan (livefreeordietryin)
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To: Rooivalk; All

“Why wasn’t Zimmerman given a field sobriety test? Was he under the influence of something? What can you tell us about that?”

We do not know that George Zimmerman was not given a feild sobriety test, but if there was no evidence of a lack of sobriety, then there was no reason to give one.

As for the blood alchol test, the police have no authority to demand one in this case, because they had no probable cause to arrest George Zimmerman. Florida law is very clear on this.

Again, read the City Manager’s statement, and you will have a much better understanding of why the City did what they did.

It is on post 5 at the link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2863446/posts

It was the prosecutor who told the police that there was no case against George Zimmerman, and that he would not be charged.


84 posted on 03/27/2012 2:37:34 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
We do not know that George Zimmerman was not given a feild sobriety test, but if there was no evidence of a lack of sobriety, then there was no reason to give one.

Back in my drinking days (last drink 2/2/99, thank you very much) I was given many a sobriety test.

Since that time, I have been stopped for speeding, general roadblocks for licenses etc., but have never again been given a sobriety test.

I assume that a lack of the smell of alcohol, clear speech plus due & proper respect had something to do with it.

85 posted on 03/27/2012 2:45:20 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: marktwain

Mark one for proper investigation


86 posted on 03/27/2012 3:06:14 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: SZonian
Did they "laugh and smoke" with you afterwards?

Of course not. They rolled up and saw that I had the suspect at gunpoint

They then from the safety of being behind their vehicles demanded that I place the weapon on the ground and move away and lay face down on the ground. I followed instructions to the letter.

There was several weapons aimed at me so I was not going to play it cute

Using their swarm tactic they rushed me and cuffed me. I told them that the crime scene had started about a block away and to send a car over to that location. I also told them not to let the person I had fired at get away and detain him

To be sure the person I had fired at was acting very aggressive and was not afraid of me even though I held the weapon. His moves were towards me even though I was backing up and telling him to stop right there and wait for the police. All this time I was on my cell talking to the dispatcher.

And when I first dialed 911 I got an "All lines are busy due to the volume of calls" message

It was then when I could not get through that I realized that chasing this guy was not such a good idea after all. And the suspect was hearing the conversation and that was making him emboldened. It was a very scary situation.

Still I knew that I had the weapon and I knew that if I used the proper tactics I would survive the situation.

And I DID survive without taking a life. The guy I was holding at gunpoint was a two strikes guy and his property crime against me went down as his third strike. He had nothing to lose fighting me for possession of my weapon

So this thing with Zimmerman does not add up when you look at it closely. I was in the back seat of that Black and White for hours as they tried to figure out how to handle me.
87 posted on 03/27/2012 3:35:50 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Rooivalk

That’s all well and good.

However, I’d still like to see your source(s) that support your allegations that the Sanford PD officers and Mr. Zimmerman were “laughing and smoking” after the shooting.

Also, the source(s) that contradict(s) the official police report, which I provided up thread, that prove your other allegation that Mr. Zimmerman was not placed into custody.


88 posted on 03/27/2012 3:46:14 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: marktwain
Not one of you "Zimmerman was justified killing Martin" people can offer a plausible explanation for Martin attacking Zimmerman in the first place! Martin was on his way home.It was raining. How would he have EVEN become aware of Zimmerman in the first place to where he would attack this man?

Why would he go out of his way to attack a stranger who was not even in his area of view....unless Zimmerman initialed the contact by CONFRONTING Martin.?

I want to hear you rush to clear Zimmerman people explain this. There is a lot of time between Zimmerman exited his vehicle and this eye witness who claims he saw Martin beating the hell out of Zimmerman.

What happened in that missing period? And don't offer these stupid ideas that "Martin felt disrespected" other equally dumb ideas for how things got started which ended up in a young person's death. Bring it.
89 posted on 03/27/2012 4:09:53 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: SZonian
That’s all well and good. However, I’d still like to see your source(s) that support your allegations that the Sanford PD officers and Mr. Zimmerman were “laughing and smoking” after the shooting. Also, the source(s) that contradict(s) the official police report, which I provided up thread, that prove your other allegation that Mr. Zimmerman was not placed into custody.

This was a quote from the LA Times. That is all that I can tell you. If that doesn't satisfy you too bad.

Now lets hear you explain why Martin even became aware of Zimmerman's presence and was motivated enough to fight this man Zimmerman.

My experience is telling me there is more to this than "Martin ran up behind Zimmerman and slugged him"
90 posted on 03/27/2012 4:15:38 PM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Rooivalk; All
Rooivalk posted:

“Not one of you “Zimmerman was justified killing Martin” people can offer a plausible explanation for Martin attacking Zimmerman in the first place! Martin was on his way home.It was raining. How would he have EVEN become aware of Zimmerman in the first place to where he would attack this man?”

First, Martin was aware of Zimmerman. Zimmerman states in the 911 tape that the suspect sees him, stares at him, moves toward him, then moves away.

Second, The girlfriend claims that on her phone call to Martin, Martin said that he was aware of a man following him, and that he was afraid.

Third, Zimmerman says that he exchanged words with Martin just before he was attacked. It appears that the girlfreind collaberates this statement, but I do not have an exact quote from Zimmerman on it. Martin says something like “Why are you following me?” and Zimmerman says “What are you doing here?” The quotes are from memory. The girlfriend's phone call was not recorded, as far as I know.

So, Martin is afraid of Zimmerman. He and Zimmerman exchange words, they are close. Martin towers over Zimmerman by about 6 inches, and it is clear that Zimmerman is out of shape.

I find it quite plausible that Martin thinks: I can take this guy, and jumps him.

Possible motives for Martin jumping Zimmerman:

Fear of Zimmerman because Zimmerman followed him. Many on freerepublic have said that if a stranger followed them, they would feel endangered and feel justified in attacking them. That would likely not hold up in court, but many have said they would do so.

Street cred: If Martin is into the “gansta” culture, beating down someone would give him status. Twitter posts after the fact indicate that this is not far fetched. Young black males have been making news across the country as they play the “knockout game” where they attempt to knock out innocent people with a sucker punch.

Testosterone poisoning: Young males are prone to be edgy and aggressive, especially if they are under stress. Martin was under suspension. He was forced to be in a strange neighborhood, away from his peers, because of school problems.

A motive often cited by Martin partisans is that Zimmerman grabbed him/touched him/ or otherwise started the physical confrontation. It is possible, but we simply have no evidence that it is so.

91 posted on 03/27/2012 4:33:10 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Rooivalk

>Every witness that has come forth to date has claimed they only witnessed the LAST MOMENTS of the fight. Noone has come forth and said they witnessed Zimmerman’s FIRST approach to Martin. Nor has anyone witnessed when Zimmerman FIRST emerged from his vehicle. So you are attempting to talk about things that noone has provided real evidence of. Nothing would have happened had Zimmerman stayed in the car and let the police handle things

Again you’ve never explained what Zimmerman did that was wrong beyond following someone.

>Actually nothing would have happened had Zimmerman followed the advice of the police dispatcher and stayed in his vehicle. That seems to be some hard logic for you to accept.

Gee, let’s expand on that logic. If Martin had not been suspended and thus in a strange neighborhood moving around at night , he wouldn’t have attracted Zimmerman’s attention as suspicious. See, it’s back on Martin again. That’s exactly as much of a stretch as the nonsense you are peddling.

>Since Martin did not attack Zimmerman inside his vehicle there would never have been any “first punch” had Zimmerman not tried to engage Martin on foot.

Well shucks, if Martin hadn’t gone walking in a strange neighborhood, he wouldn’t have caused Zimmerman to get out of the car. See where this goes?

>Lets see you refute that fact

Was I supposed to be impressed by puerile nonsense?


92 posted on 03/27/2012 4:40:39 PM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: Rooivalk

>Some call it stalking. And without any authority to follow on foot Martin, Zimmerman could be considered a stalker

Where do you get this nonsense? A stalker? I mean really, do you listen to yourself?

>So when the police tell you something you regard it as a “suggestion”? Please!

Maybe you’re not aware of this, but police dispatchers are generally not actual police (cheaper to use a civilian). Their words do not in any weigh carry the weight of police orders.

>There would have been no “first punch” had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle. Right? Zimmerman was not punched inside his car. So why was he on the streets where he could get punched?

Why was Martin on the street punching people? This is a pathetically stupid circular argument. We can go back a long ways with this and it will get just as far into nowhere.

One person in this situation initiated violence. According to the evidence available at this point, that person was Martin. You can hem and haw all you like about possibilities, but shoulda, woulda, coulda doesn’t mean didly squat. More to the point, nothing Zimmerman did was illegal. He committed no crime. Martin, by what evidence we have started a fight. That is breaking the law. This is a pretty clear cut difference. Your inability to grasp that simple reality is rather disturbing.


93 posted on 03/27/2012 4:51:36 PM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: Rooivalk

Do you wear a special costume when you go looking for racism that isn’t there?


94 posted on 03/27/2012 5:09:10 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: Rooivalk

Not good enough. Provide a link please.

The rest of your comments are irrelevant to me. I’m challenging your scurrilous assertion that the Sanford PD officers and Zimmerman were laughing and smoking after the shooting.

Again, put up or shut up.

Until you do, you have shot your credibility to hell.

I wonder, are you a bit biased on this topic? Is this why you insist on slandering the Sanford PD officers and Zimmerman with those false allegations? Is this why you won’t provide the actual links to your claims? Folks have been providing links to information to show you where and how you’re wrong, but that’s not good enough. It doesn’t meet your pre-conceived, biased theory, so it’s dismissed.

You are engaging in the very same behavior that the media, Al Sharpton, JJ and all the other race hustlers have been in since day one of this blow up. Despicable, trollish behavior.

Intentionally lying about people, just like the scum in the media and the racists who are calling for Mr. Zimmerman’s head on a platter.

Again, until you either RETRACT the false accusation or provide a link, your words and position on this issue aren’t worth spit.


95 posted on 03/28/2012 7:56:22 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: SZonian
Well as the new day dawns we see this:

SANFORD— Despite public claims that there wasn’t enough probable cause to make a criminal case in the Trayvon Martin killing, early in the investigation the Sanford Police Department requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney’s office, the special prosecutor in the case told The Miami Herald on Tuesday.

Guess that trumps your measly mouth whining about how Zimmerman was as clean as the newly driven snow. And it looks like Zimmerman and somebody else is going to have to do some explaining of their actions.
96 posted on 03/28/2012 10:26:11 AM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: Rooivalk
"Guess that trumps your measly mouth whining about how Zimmerman was as clean as the newly driven snow. "

Liar. I've never said, nor have I ever asserted anything of the kind.

Post the source links.

97 posted on 03/28/2012 10:29:58 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

“Cain crucified himself. He should have know he would be subject to a full body cavity search.”

And if the accusations are false?
That’s my point...


98 posted on 03/28/2012 10:35:03 AM PDT by libdestroyer
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To: SZonian
Liar. I've never said, nor have I ever asserted anything of the kind. Post the source links.

I will be glad to. Hope this is able to clear that fog of ignorance from your brain. Here you go. Read em and weep Ha ha ha

Sanford police sought to charge man who killed Trayvon Martin
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sfl-prosecutor-sanford-police-sought-to-charge-zimmerman-20120327,0,5991068.story

You can never say that I didn't try to help you understand the world around you.
99 posted on 03/28/2012 10:38:07 AM PDT by Rooivalk
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To: SZonian
Prosecutor: Sanford police sought to charge Zimmerman Los Angeles Times‎ - 12 hours ago A Sanford Police incident report shows the case was categorized as “homicide/negligent manslaughter.” The state attorney's office held off pending further ...

All I can say is that we told you so
100 posted on 03/28/2012 10:42:27 AM PDT by Rooivalk
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