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CNN: Today was a 'train wreck' for Obamacare
The Examiner /CNN ^ | March 27, 2012 1:03pm | Charlie Spiering

Posted on 03/27/2012 1:02:34 PM PDT by Semper911

CNN Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin said that it was a rough day for the Obama administration, as lawyers worked to defend the Obamacare's individual mandate.

"This was a train wreck for the Obama administration," Tobin said. "This law looks like it's going to be struck down. I'm telling you, all of the predictions including mine that the justices would not have a problem with this law were wrong."

Tobin said that U.S. Solicitor General David Verrilli was woefully unprepared in his defense.

"I don't know why he had a bad day, he is a good lawyer, he was a perfectly fine lawyer in the really sort of tangential argument yesterday. He was not ready for the answers for the conservative justices," he said.

"If I had to bet today I would bet that this court is going to strike down the individual mandate." he said.

Tobin was not alone in his analysis. NBC's Justice corespondent Pete Williams was also skeptical.

"It would seem at this point in the process that I think it's very doubtful that the court is going to find the health care law constitutional," he said, "I don't see five votes to find the law constitutional."

(Excerpt) Read more at campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: obamacare; scotusobamacare; scotusocareday2
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I just love coming home to good news...

Also, I heard that Intrade has the odds of Obamacare being overturned at 80% -- up from 30% this morning!

Train wreck, indeed!

1 posted on 03/27/2012 1:02:40 PM PDT by Semper911
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To: Semper911

Toobin just threw the Solicitor General under the bus for Obama, because we all know this unconstitutional power grab couldn’t possibly be the problem...


2 posted on 03/27/2012 1:05:44 PM PDT by Freddd (NoPA ngineers.)
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To: Freddd

I am reading the transcript now, and the SG should crawl under the bus himself. (Or maybe he know it’s not worth fighting for?)


3 posted on 03/27/2012 1:08:59 PM PDT by Semper911 (When you want to rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul.)
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To: Semper911

Watch. If it is overturned, the Administration will claim that its a narrow interpretation and proceed as planned.


4 posted on 03/27/2012 1:09:21 PM PDT by rbg81
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To: Semper911
Obamacare is indefenisible because they must either defend the mandate as a penalty or a tax, they can't do both.

You can't use a 'tax' as a penalty.

5 posted on 03/27/2012 1:11:33 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!-Sam Adams)
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To: Semper911
Tobin said that U.S. Solicitor General David Verrilli was woefully unprepared in his defense.

Maybe they should find the solicitor general who prepared the original defense. Where is she hiding? Oh, wait, she is sitting in judgment of this law without properly recusing herself from the case.

6 posted on 03/27/2012 1:11:49 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: Semper911

There was an exchange early in the proceedings between Alito and Verrilli, regarding hypothetical “burial insurance” which included the term “cost shifting.”

That in 2 words is all this is about. The government started the cost shifting and now it’s being used as a justification for socialized medicine.

Cost shifting was the little socialism. Obamacare is the great socialism.


7 posted on 03/27/2012 1:11:59 PM PDT by Lady Lucky
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To: Semper911
The only thing better than getting Obamacare declared unconstitutional... the knowledge that the Democrats threw away their majority... for nothing ! ROFl
8 posted on 03/27/2012 1:12:27 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Go Newt!)
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To: Semper911

More like a train wreck waiting to happen for America..and the useless waste of time and expense. We would have been in better shape had we done nothing. Stupid progs always know best.Trillions in Debt...Cash for Clunkers..shouvel ready jobs..Fast and Furious...Solandra..high gas prices..strangling regulations...continued unemployment...continued bad economy...GREAT JOB OBAMA!


9 posted on 03/27/2012 1:12:47 PM PDT by Leep (Dueling tag lines=don't worry,you'll be a vegetable guy soon<>It's gonna be a Newt day!)
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To: rbg81

But with no money. Maybe obozo can proceed alone.


10 posted on 03/27/2012 1:13:01 PM PDT by Pit1 (Obozo need to go back from where he came from and that's not Chicago.)
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To: Semper911
Bookmark
11 posted on 03/27/2012 1:15:20 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Stand up and be counted... OR LINE UP AND BE NUMBERED...)
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To: Semper911

Scouts blog has a different take on today’s arguments. Kennedy explored both sides of the issue and seemed to find merit in some of the governments arguments.


12 posted on 03/27/2012 1:16:00 PM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: Freddd

Hard for Verrilli to defend a fraud..


13 posted on 03/27/2012 1:16:00 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Semper911

Much sadness in the MSM I detect. Yes.

14 posted on 03/27/2012 1:16:04 PM PDT by McGruff (Sarah...Sarah...Sarah!)
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To: Semper911

Forgive me, but after three years of this lying, despicable cabal, I find myself waiting for the other shoe to drop. I can’t believe they’re throwing in the towel this easily.


15 posted on 03/27/2012 1:17:38 PM PDT by Mangia E Statti Zitto
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To: Lady Lucky
an exchange early in the proceedings between Alito and Verrilli, regarding hypothetical “burial insurance” which included the term “cost shifting.”

I read that just now. Alito made mincemeat of him.

16 posted on 03/27/2012 1:18:11 PM PDT by Semper911 (When you want to rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul.)
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To: Semper911

ObamaCommicare IS a train wreck


17 posted on 03/27/2012 1:18:24 PM PDT by clamper1797 (Hoping to have some change left)
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To: McGruff

+1


18 posted on 03/27/2012 1:18:41 PM PDT by Drill Thrawl (Brass, copper, lead. The new precious metals.)
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To: Semper911

What did the un-ethical one who refused to recuse herself have to say?


19 posted on 03/27/2012 1:19:57 PM PDT by Drill Thrawl (Brass, copper, lead. The new precious metals.)
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To: Semper911

I’m cautiously optimistic, but it’s way too early to be doing victory laps, IMHO. Sometimes you can’t tell how SCOTUS will rule from their questions.


20 posted on 03/27/2012 1:20:26 PM PDT by Purrcival (Herman Cain 2012 (*sigh*))
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To: fortheDeclaration
Obamacare is indefenisible because they must either defend the mandate as a penalty or a tax, they can't do both.

You can't use a 'tax' as a penalty.

Ahh, you aren't able to sink into doublethink like the 'Rats.

Winston sank his arms to his sides and slowly refilled his lungs with air. His mind slid away into the labyrinthine world of doublethink. To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself. That was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.

Hey, 'Rats, 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.

21 posted on 03/27/2012 1:21:42 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: Freddd

Toobin just threw the Solicitor General under the bus for Obama, because we all know this unconstitutional power grab couldn’t possibly be the problem...

maybe he’s just way out of his league ,like the rest of the Obama Admin


22 posted on 03/27/2012 1:21:48 PM PDT by molson209
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To: rbg81

Bingo. This is why 0bama must go. He will ignore the SCOTUS’ ruling if overturned and wait until AFTER he’s elected to publicly state his intent to proceed with 0bamacare. He’ll have more “FLEXIBILITY” at that point, right?


23 posted on 03/27/2012 1:22:41 PM PDT by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
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To: Semper911

Hmmm... the lawyers at ScotusBlog were no where near as sure of the outcome as these reporters. They thought it very close.


24 posted on 03/27/2012 1:23:42 PM PDT by green iguana
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To: fortheDeclaration
"Obamacare is indefenisible because they must either defend the mandate as a penalty or a tax, they can't do both.

You can't use a 'tax' as a penalty. "

That all depends on what the definition of "is" is.

25 posted on 03/27/2012 1:24:24 PM PDT by FedsRStealingOurCountryFromUs
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To: molson209
maybe he’s just way out of his league ,like the rest of the Obama Admin

Well, the person responsible for the IRS used Turbo Tax, perhaps the SG got his arguments from Legal Zoom.

26 posted on 03/27/2012 1:26:32 PM PDT by Drill Thrawl (Brass, copper, lead. The new precious metals.)
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To: Semper911

“This law looks like it’s going to be struck down. I’m telling you, all of the predictions including mine that the justices would not have a problem with this law were wrong.”

I hate to be cynical. But i think this is just a kibuki dance,, meant to look like they are SERIOUSLY considering the arguments. They will criticize,, make snarky remarks, etc.
But in the end, unless one belives the USSC to be above the corruption and ignoring of the Constitution that the other two branches regularly do,,,i wouldn’t bet twenty bucks that they will overturn it.

Hope im wrong.


27 posted on 03/27/2012 1:27:49 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for officeoffi)
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To: Semper911
"It would seem at this point in the process that I think it's very doubtful that the court is going to find the health care law constitutional,"...doesn't matter - this law is so tainted in so many ways, it can not stand:

Fraudulent fianancing - half a trillion dollars taken from Medicare to supposedly finance other aspects of the law and keep the total cost of the program under one trillion, with the "borrowed" funds later returned in the form of a "Doc Fix" and other appropriations in other sections of the federal budget to hide the real spending...

A stolen sixtieth vote for the law in the Senate when federal prosecutors framed Sen. Ted Stevens of Alaska for financial irregularities, causing him to lose his reelection bid by 3000 votes to a 'rat who provided the necessary margin to keep the bill alive...

A prejudiced pro-law vote on the Supreme Court in the person of Elena Kagan, who was working in the White House when the bill was passed and is on record as being absolutely in favor of passage. She should have recused herself from deliberations without even being asked - but that would take too much honor for any leftwinger to muster....

Spawned in corruption, Obamacare may eventually be found constitutional by the Supreme Court, but the American public will always believe it to be illegitimate.....

28 posted on 03/27/2012 1:28:09 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Semper911

If I were a conservative, and I am, I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Here is a take that has not been mentioned yet.

From what I understand the Justices don’t dicsuss the case after they’ve heard arguments. They go back to their chambers and write their opinions and vote. That’s not a rule, that is simply how the process has evolved.

Hoewever, the Justices are free to query one another and conversate with one another and there is no prohibition against lobbying another Jusice.

Keeping that in mind, now remember this: obama has put two women on that court and he picked them becasue they are as radical as he is.

I believe that Sotomayer is just as much as a radical activist as obama with a “union thug gene” deep in her genome.

I believe that Sotomayer will try to sway other Justices behind closed doors. I believe that she will be in touch with the obama adminstration giving them a blow by blow on how the decision is coming along. In short she is a mole.

I believe that if the opinion doesn’t go her way that she will try to fiddle with the final text in order to achieve her end.

Look at her track record if you don’t believe that sotomayer is capable of that. She is a non apologetic racist who will have her way and do anything to get her way.

Sotomayer is key, someone must keep an eye on her and keep her in check. (Kind of reminds me of John Carpenters “The Thing” with Kirt Russel)


29 posted on 03/27/2012 1:28:24 PM PDT by fightin kentuckian
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Putting it that way sure does make me chuckle.


30 posted on 03/27/2012 1:29:12 PM PDT by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Milli Verrilli ? Are you a fraud ?


31 posted on 03/27/2012 1:29:16 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Semper911

I’m at the airport so it’s the only thing on...and they are down in the dumps. They are trying to blame the solicitor general for doing a horrible job, but given the crap sandwich he had to defend who can blame him.


32 posted on 03/27/2012 1:30:30 PM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: Semper911

I’m going to buck the conventional wisdom and say that this is exactly what 0bama and Romney were hoping would happen because now it takes the issue off the table... At least for the time being.


33 posted on 03/27/2012 1:31:24 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Semper911

I think the reason the US SG was unprepared is because they fully expected the case to get punted until 2014 since they framed the penalty as an untax-tax.


34 posted on 03/27/2012 1:34:04 PM PDT by SecondAmendment (Restoring our Republic at 9.8357x10^8 FPS)
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To: rbg81

I agree...the Obama regime doesn’t give a damn about judicial decisions that go against them. They ignored the first judge who ruled it unconstitutional...and they ignored the judge who ruled against their drilling moratorium.

They don’t care about the law.


35 posted on 03/27/2012 1:34:54 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Semper911

No need for them to be down in the dumps until the fat lady sings. Ya just never know how the black robes will rule.


36 posted on 03/27/2012 1:37:42 PM PDT by petitfour
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To: Semper911

If not can check under the cannons at Fort Marcy Park

Like Vince Foster......


37 posted on 03/27/2012 1:37:42 PM PDT by njslim (St)
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To: Semper911

This is CRAP people, don’t fall for this BS. They are lowering expectations. As we all know, the questioning phase of a Supreme Court inquisition can often feel just like that. You cannot absolutely tell how the justices are going to vote, based on the questions asked or the tone or manner. I have seen it go the other way too many times.


38 posted on 03/27/2012 1:40:46 PM PDT by Paradox (I want Obama defeated. Period.)
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To: saganite
"Kennedy explored both sides of the issue and seemed to find merit in some of the governments arguments."

I read it as saving face. The entirety of his questioning fits more strongly within a 5-4 Roberts (or possibly passed to Alito) majority decision to overturn, at least in part per individual mandate.

39 posted on 03/27/2012 1:43:32 PM PDT by StAnDeliver (=.)
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To: Semper911

All of these Justices should be following the letter of the law...not one of them on the fence about how the law appears in their point of view. This is all B.S. It is illegal period.


40 posted on 03/27/2012 1:44:28 PM PDT by My Favorite Headache (In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big. Vote Newt!)
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To: rbg81

Without the individual mandate, if they enforce the rest of ObamaCare, the health insurance industry will not collapse, nor will it implode. It will evaporate. Gone in thirty seconds.


41 posted on 03/27/2012 1:44:42 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets ("Jihad" is Arabic for "Helter-Skelter", "bin Laden" is Arabic for "Manson".)
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To: Brilliant

I think obama rushed the process because his re-election hopes are dim...he is going to run against *evil* healthcare-stealing republicans. Above all, he wants to be in power and have approval from the people. He is a narcissist afterall.


42 posted on 03/27/2012 1:46:22 PM PDT by subterfuge (BUILD MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS NOW!!!)
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To: rbg81

If the mandate is severed from the rest of it, Obama could just tell Congress to come up with a new source of funding if they want to balance the costs and that he’ll veto any attempt to repeal any other part of the law. Then we’d have to see if we have enough votes to override the veto.


43 posted on 03/27/2012 1:46:36 PM PDT by JediJones (The Divided States of Obama's Declaration of Dependence: Death, Taxes and the Pursuit of Crappiness)
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To: Paradox

I actually think a federal individual mandate would be very hard to uphold, even for some of the more liberal judges.

A state mandate to buy a product (such as auto insurance) is a different matter, because it protects that state from expenses, the same of which could be said of state-mandated health insurance. But this is also because an individual state does not contemplate becoming the sole provider of that product, which is clearly the aim of Obamacare. So there are mandates and there are mandates, but I think most rational judges will have to find that this one exceeds the permitted scope of federal action.


44 posted on 03/27/2012 1:48:17 PM PDT by livius
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To: Semper911

Reading the transcripts, the gummint got beat up pretty bad...
They need Obamacare!!

;-)


45 posted on 03/27/2012 1:49:11 PM PDT by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: Semper911
U.S. Solicitor General David Verrilli

Milli Verrilli, just lip-synching the liberal BS!

46 posted on 03/27/2012 1:49:18 PM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys=Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat, but they know what's best for you.)
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To: saganite

Pretty much every analysis today I’ve seen or heard has confirmed what this article is stating including Jay Sekulow whom I respect very much.

What is “Scouts blog” and why should I care about their outlier position?


47 posted on 03/27/2012 1:53:30 PM PDT by traderrob6
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To: Semper911

Let’s hope this is the firsst of MANY “trainwrecks” for Obamacare, its mandates and death penalties......and for its AUTHOR.

It might hurt Romney in the primaries even more also.


48 posted on 03/27/2012 1:53:39 PM PDT by ZULU (LIBERATE HAGIA SOPHIA!!!!!)
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To: Brilliant
"I’m going to buck the conventional wisdom and say that this is exactly what 0bama and Romney were hoping would happen because now it takes the issue off the table... At least for the time being."

June is when the actual decision is released...

More to the point, the headlines then will scream that the cost is double without the now-overturned individual mandate.

Mittens could close out Bobo then and there by having a speech ready in which he admits Romneycare was flawed/Obamacare was unconstitutional and Congress must repeal/properly, the states are incubators, not the fed/how do we properly engage the real problem, extending care to the 24 mill who don't have it-won't get it-too stupid to care, and are clogging up our emergency rooms for the rest of us.

49 posted on 03/27/2012 1:54:34 PM PDT by StAnDeliver (=.)
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To: Semper911; P-Marlowe

This mandate to buy is the worst attack on personal freedom since slavery.

Forget all the other words being used. It says the government can “order” you around instead of just manipulate you around. They tax whiskey, and it affects your buying. They tax your income and then go buy things with the money you wouldn’t otherwise have bought.

With this, though, they issue and order and tell you to go down to the neighborhood store and buy 6 of these and 5 of those.

It opens the door for the government to issue individual, particularized orders.

Disneyworld is going under...you are ordered to attend disney this year.
GMC is hurting...you are ordered to buy a Volt.


50 posted on 03/27/2012 1:54:59 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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