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'Relocating' children - Hundreds of Oklahoma kids carted away from school grounds
The American Thinker ^ | March 29, 2012 | Jason McNew

Posted on 03/29/2012 5:12:23 AM PDT by Gennie

'Relocating' children

March 29, 2012

It's 11AM. Do you know where your children are? Hundreds of Oklahoma kids carted away from school grounds without parental consent or knowledge.

Jason McNew

Recently, there has been a disturbing nation-wide trend of parental rights being trampled upon by public school officials, from bag-lunch inspections to electronic bracelets being used to spy on overweight kids. This week brings another example of complete disregard for parental rights, this time from Grove High School in Delaware County, Oklahoma.

Grove High School transported 699 kids away from school property without first notifying parents of their intent to do so, nor obtaining the parents consent. Parents were only told, by way of this nondescript robo-call, that there would be a "drill":

"This call is to inform you that Grove Public Schools will be conducting an emergency exercise on Tuesday, March 27, 2012. The drill's purpose is to extend the school's preparedness in the event of a real emergency. Please be aware, this is only a drill. Thanks and have a good evening."

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arth; children; education; homeschool; homeschooling; oklahoma; onlinelearning; schools
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To: Pollster1

Modern compulsory schooling has little to do with the lessons on the blackboard.

http://www.newciv.org/whole/schoolteacher.txt

Where did you learn that training in a foreign languages is important, and that the inculcation of morality is relatively unimportant? (Yes, that’s what you said, in so many words.)


51 posted on 03/29/2012 6:41:27 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: Gennie

All your kids are belong to us.


52 posted on 03/29/2012 6:48:59 AM PDT by mykroar (Please be aware any /sarc tag is for the lurkers, not the Freepers.)
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To: Gennie

...uh...maybe that’s why it’s good to practice these scenerios...to work out the problems.

(Reference my original comment: “I would also appreciate that the school’s admin is PRACTICING this maneuver so their efforts, in a true emergency, would go smoothly.”)

I stick by my original post.


53 posted on 03/29/2012 6:53:37 AM PDT by moovova (Comments at FreeRepublic are WAY MORE interesting than the articles.)
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To: Gennie
This was handled poorly.

Bottom line.

54 posted on 03/29/2012 6:56:15 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: moovova

I am trying to understand why, in a planned scenario which is not a crisis, you think the parents should NOT be notified as to where their children’s physical bodies would be if they are not in the school or at least on school property like the parents are assuming? What would the harm be in notifying and gaining parental consent? A true emergency is just that, an emergency, parental consent and knowledge would not hinder a drill as most would be aware and say “sure!”.


55 posted on 03/29/2012 6:56:47 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Pollster1; Graybeard58
"A good public school, and there are many, can teach French, German, Spanish, and perhaps even Russian and Chinese better than most of us can. A good public school can teach science better than most of us even know so many different fields of science, writing better than we can teach it, and math beyond what most adults remember or perhaps ever learned. What it cannot do is teach values, and parents need to talk with their public (or private) school kids daily and correct or clarify any moral lessons that the schools messed up (whether intentionally or inadvertently). There is a lot of good in public schools, although I wish more conservatives would teach there and help them to resist liberal, anti-Christian, pro-socialism values lessons.

That may have been true "once upon a time", but it is no longer so. My great-grandmother, grandmother, and mother all taught in public schools. I'm a product of same. But that was fifty years ago. Public education has largely been destroyed and replaced by political and politically correct brainwashing. I keep up with what is happening through relatives with children still in school, and have watched the deterioration progress to its current abysmally low level.

56 posted on 03/29/2012 6:58:53 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Gennie
You are correct, imo, in that this was a planned event and should have had the parents consent before transporting.

What I would like to know: What is the Emergency they are planning on??? Does anyone see a real Threat on the horizon? Name it, then tell the parents what it is.

What is Obama up to now, and why pull this off in some out of the way place in Okla? Maybe because the media won't be out in force to ask questions?

This whole thing is very disturbing and weird.

57 posted on 03/29/2012 7:01:50 AM PDT by annieokie
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
Where did you learn that training in a foreign languages is important, and that the inculcation of morality is relatively unimportant? (Yes, that’s what you said, in so many words.)

Morality is by far the most important lesson. I simply believe that kids will be exposed to good and bad morals no matter what. It is comparatively easy for involved parents to correct moral lessons that the schools get wrong - if parents try - but impossible for most of us to teach languages (and many other subjects) well.

58 posted on 03/29/2012 7:08:03 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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To: Future Snake Eater

I continue to be amazed by the writings of people whose thinking is “pre-internet”. You can get access to practically EVERYTHING on the internet. If you really wanted your son or daughter to learn a foreign language at home, say German, all you have to do is get an online language course, listen to German radio online, watch German TV shows online (they have great kids shows with no leftist indoctrination), podcasts, online chat...etc! My biggest problem is having to sit in front of the computer for too long, but printers are also fashionable these days!


59 posted on 03/29/2012 7:10:56 AM PDT by gr8eman (Ron Swanson for President!)
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To: Gennie
I'll say it one more time for you...maybe it will sink in:

"...uh...maybe that’s why it’s good to practice these scenerios...to work out the problems."

Here's a hypothetical staff meeting AFTER the recent PRACTICE relocation drill:

Principal says: "Staff, any one have any suggestions as to how we can improve our next relocation drill?"

Staff members suggest:
"A bus ran out of gas. Make sure there is enough gas in each bus."
"Have a couple of big RubberMaid tubs of snacks and drinks ready to go with each bus."
"Make sure each bus has a walky-talky."
"Have maps in each bus showing alternative routes."
"Oh yeah...please, please, please...let's notify the parents by mail, robo-call, and student notes WELL IN ADVANCE of the event. Remember all the parent calls we got?"

Principal replies: "ALL good suggestions...especially the one about notifying the parents. We should also get permission slips signed."

60 posted on 03/29/2012 7:17:19 AM PDT by moovova (Comments at FreeRepublic are WAY MORE interesting than the articles.)
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To: Gennie

Just this morning my daughter was informed, after indicating she was going to home school her son, that she had to have a four year degree first. She was told it was state law, high school diploma to teach K-6th, Baccalaureate to teach 7th - 12th.

Why do some children never believe their parents?


61 posted on 03/29/2012 7:21:47 AM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Obama is Romney lite)
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To: moovova
And I will say it again, why is it that they did not obtain permission for a planned event. They managed to plan for the drill but couldn't plan for permission slips? You think it's okay for a school district to move children from one location to another without consulting parents? What if those buses got into an accident during this drill and the parents were unaware that their children were even going to be on the buses to begin with???? Imagine getting a call that your kid has been in a bus accident while you assumed they were going to be on school property performing a drill. BTW, your argument is moot because the superintendent, per the article, said:

"We are not taking them out of town, they are going to be on school buses and school property, so no, no I don't think we have to have parent consent to practice a drill."

They don't feel they even need it to begin with.
62 posted on 03/29/2012 7:28:25 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie
The superintendent's argument was that because the children were to remain on school buses the entire time during the drill, which is considred "school property", they did not need parental consent even though they physically moved the children from one location to another, unbeknownst to the parents.

Pure sophistry there, and prima facie evidence that this superintendant is manifestly unqualified for the position he/she holds...

the infowarrior

63 posted on 03/29/2012 7:30:48 AM PDT by infowarrior
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To: gr8eman
Absolutely. There's no excuse in today's Information Age for that kind of thinking. We bought our 3-yr old daughter an annual subscription to Starfall. Within a month or two of just playing around (this is after some basic instruction from her mother and me) as well as some LeapFrog DVDs teaching phonics, she's a solid reader, she can spell, and she can do basic math. She's not even four yet!

It's also taught her how to use a computer mouse and laptop touchpad. She spends hours on that site, learning all kinds of different subjects. When I was homsechooled back in the mid-80s, this all would've been either impossible or prohibitively expensive.

I can't wait to see what else is out there for our kids.

64 posted on 03/29/2012 7:39:13 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (If we had a President, he'd look like Newt.)
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To: infowarrior

Question is whether or not the people living there will make a stink about it...


65 posted on 03/29/2012 8:00:36 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie; metmom; MrB
Recently, there has been a disturbing nation-wide trend of parental rights being trampled upon by public school officials...

If by "recently" you mean in the last 40 years or so...
66 posted on 03/29/2012 8:06:53 AM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: Pollster1
A good public school, and there are many, can teach ...

And a good private school, that is engaged in genuine market competition, can utterly teach circles around the best public schools at a fraction of the cost.
67 posted on 03/29/2012 8:09:12 AM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: Sopater

In a system where even the public schools had to compete for kids in order to stay “in business”,

even the public schools would improve.


68 posted on 03/29/2012 8:11:33 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Sopater

LOL have to admit, that made me snicker...


69 posted on 03/29/2012 8:11:33 AM PDT by Gennie
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To: Gennie
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5M_Ttstbgs

70 posted on 03/29/2012 8:24:40 AM PDT by moovova (Comments at FreeRepublic are WAY MORE interesting than the articles.)
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To: MrB
In a system where even the public schools had to compete for kids in order to stay “in business”, even the public schools would improve.

True, but being a gov't bureaucracy, the costs would still likely be too high, and they would be run inefficiently.
71 posted on 03/29/2012 8:25:37 AM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: netmilsmom

Algebra is not the only high school math that is taught. Geometry, pre calculus and a raft more.

I am not suggesting that one shouldn’t home school based solely on one set of curricula. To think that you can self teach mathematics is a kin to having yourself for a lawyer


72 posted on 03/29/2012 8:30:28 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: Pollster1
I simply believe that kids will be exposed to good and bad morals no matter what.

I agree with you, but it's a question of degree. Fourth graders being instructed to put condoms on bananas, a father being arrested and handcuffed for objecting to his kindergartner receiving homosexual indoctrination, revisionist history, opposition research projects for Obama...

Where do you draw the line before the immorality and social engineering becomes unacceptable?

It is comparatively easy for involved parents to correct moral lessons that the schools get wrong - if parents try

Not saying it can't be accomplished, but it's certainly difficult for parents to undo the damage from daily indoctrination, peer pressure and societal brainwashing with a few conversations over dinner.

but impossible for most of us to teach languages (and many other subjects) well.

There's no magical teaching process taking place in schools. Information is presented, and the student is responsible for learning it.

73 posted on 03/29/2012 8:31:38 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: netmilsmom

And for the record.... my child when in high school didn’[t hang out with the dope smokers, the drinkers, the overtly sexual.... Teaching your children how to judge character and pick quality friends is a parents job.


74 posted on 03/29/2012 8:32:06 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: Future Snake Eater

Moral relativism or more accurately, immorality, atheism, secularism, homosexualism, feminism and so on are larded and woven throughout all subjects in public schools. I home schooled my kids for some years, and tutored many other children, and read school books (not for some years) and often just made up my own lessons, the kids read library books (carefully selected, this was in the 80s). The most recent grade school text books I’ve seen were about 8 years ago. Even I was shocked at the blatant propaganda.


75 posted on 03/29/2012 9:18:36 AM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Pollster1
I agree with you, but ...

My grandson is a full-time Florida high school student. He attends classes from home via Connections Academy. They currently have cost-free programs in 24 states. His is FLVS (Florida Virtual School). I can't say enough about the program! He does go to the local brick and mortar school for the state mandated FCAT tests but otheriwse he attends classes from the kitchen and the car. There are 'live lessons' which are recorded for later viewing by kids who can't attend them and his teachers are only an email or phone call away if he has a question. He can take classes which interest him but are not offered in the local school. Best of all, he has a 93% average.

76 posted on 03/29/2012 9:33:11 AM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: Nifster

Not beyond most parents, just beyond some parents. We get together and pool our home educator resources.


77 posted on 03/29/2012 10:03:19 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (When life hands you lemons, ask for tequila and salt.)
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To: Nifster
I'm in the health care field. Took plenty of science classes to get my degree.

Never took a Chem class in H.S., never took a Physics class either...

And the argument could be made that anything over basic Algebra is a waste of time anyway.....

BTW, H.S.'ed two kids....K-12. They are both tax slaving productive American's now.

78 posted on 03/29/2012 10:07:12 AM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: netmilsmom

You ought to try www.theswap.com for algebra help or other gnarly home school questions. It’s a forum of friendly homeschool moms and I think you’d love it too.


79 posted on 03/29/2012 10:07:19 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (When life hands you lemons, ask for tequila and salt.)
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To: Nifster; Coldwater Creek; kitkat

>>Algebra is not the only high school math that is taught. Geometry, pre calculus and a raft more.<<
I’m so sorry, I hate to point this out, but either your reading comprehension skills are lacking, or you have an agenda. Let’s look at the post you responded to, Post 42.

“But I’m not teaching math to my kids. These people are...
http://saxonpublishers.hmhco.com/en/sxnm_home.htm
http://www.khanacademy.org/

And if they don’t get it, another homeschooling parent or student helps them out.”

Did you see that I said I’m not teaching them, their teachers are on those sites and on CD-ROM, help from other students (hello, high school tutoring is the same) and FReepers? So while my daughter is studying Calculus next month, I can’t do Algebra. Those who are smart find the information without the government doling it out.

Did you bother to look at those sites?

>>I am not suggesting that one shouldn’t home school based solely on one set of curricula. To think that you can self teach mathematics is a kin to having yourself for a lawyer<<

But I’m not. I told you that.

>>And for the record.... my child when in high school didn’[t hang out with the dope smokers, the drinkers, the overtly sexual.... <<

Well good for you and good for them. At the High School that my daughter would be attending, a note just went out to all the parents that the Prom is in doubt because they had problems controlling the lesbian dirty dancing at the Spring Dance. Honey, times have changed.


80 posted on 03/29/2012 10:08:10 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Breitbart)
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To: W. W. SMITH

Because after they go to public school, their authority becomes their teacher and their peer group. A homeschooled child’s peer group is usually their family.


81 posted on 03/29/2012 10:12:50 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (When life hands you lemons, ask for tequila and salt.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

>>People cringe when I tell them I have teenage girls. But they couldn’t be easier to deal with or more fun to hang around with.<<

Phew, I thought it was just me.
We do things together, we do things apart but when we are together, it’s so much fun I’m amazed that others don’t enjoy their teens.


82 posted on 03/29/2012 10:14:10 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Breitbart)
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To: W. W. SMITH
Just this morning my daughter was informed, after indicating she was going to home school her son, that she had to have a four year degree first. She was told it was state law, high school diploma to teach K-6th, Baccalaureate to teach 7th - 12th.

She ought to contact HSLDA to find out the requirements for homeschooling that exist in each state. I don't know the particular requirements of her state, but they will, and will also help parents deal with over-reaching school officials. I could be wrong, but in my knowledge of the various state laws, I don't think there are any with that kind of educational background required for parents. I do know from reading their website that school officials very often tell parents requirements that aren't actually the law. HSLDA then sends letters to the school district.THey have a web-site & number online.

83 posted on 03/29/2012 10:14:53 AM PDT by Red Boots
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To: W. W. SMITH

In some states that’s how it is. That’s why their are umbrella schools, you sign up with them and use their levels of education and home educate your own children. Gateway is one in Memphis, TN. I used to live there and used them. They do testing and keep your grades for you.


84 posted on 03/29/2012 10:15:45 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (When life hands you lemons, ask for tequila and salt.)
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To: Nifster
Just out of curiosity, what was the highest level of mathematics that you ever took and passed?

My mother barely got past high school geometry. She had me in calculus before I started at the community college, and I ended up with a minor in mathematics.

Homeschooled parents can teach anything they want, if they're motivated.

85 posted on 03/29/2012 10:21:02 AM PDT by JenB
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To: Nifster
I merely note that laboratory facilities for chemostry lab and ohysics lab and higher level mathematics classes are usually beyond the perview of most parents.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please, please, please, educate yourself about homeschooling before posting any more comments like the one above. Please visit a homeschool parents meeting near you.

The only labs that our children had were the **kitchen table**...yet....

My three homeschoolers were accepted to college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. All finished all general college courses and Calculus III before the age 15. The two younger earned B.S. degrees in mathematics by the age of 18. The older of these two earned a masters in math by the age of 20. The oldest homeschooler recently graduated with a masters in accounting but chose to combine part-time college with work, travel, and reaching the national and international levels in his sport. He represented the U.S. in many countries around the world. Due to his work experiences he is completely fluent in Russian.

86 posted on 03/29/2012 10:26:29 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: W. W. SMITH

What state is she in? Check out something like HSLDA’s website and read the laws. Growing up in Pennsylvania with their oppressive laws I know my mother was told a lot of lies about what the law did and did not require. Only by knowing it inside and out could she avoid trouble.

If that - utter nonsense - is true, does her husband have a degree and can cover legally?

I really don’t think this is right...


87 posted on 03/29/2012 10:26:59 AM PDT by JenB
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To: Nifster
I merely note that laboratory facilities for chemostry lab and ohysics lab and higher level mathematics classes are usually beyond the perview of most parents.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Successful homeschooling parents and adult who were homeschooled will tell you that the above is complete nonsense!

The evidence is now becoming overwhelming. The **best** way to rear and educate a child to successful adulthood is **homeschooling**!

Will some children need institutionalization for their education? Sadly, yes. It is too bad. We need orphanages, too, but no one is claiming they are the best way to rear a child.

88 posted on 03/29/2012 10:31:01 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; Pollster1; Nifster
Where did you learn that training in a foreign languages is important, and that the inculcation of morality is relatively unimportant? (Yes, that’s what you said, in so many words.)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The above is an astute observation!

Yes, indeed! Where did Pollster learn that languages were important but values are relatively unimportant in a child's formal education? Where did Nifster learn that it was somehow impossible to learn science without fancy labs, or that parents could not direct higher level mathematics without achieving that level themselves?

Somewhere Pollster wrongly picked up the idea that government schooling doesn't teach values. NONSENSE! It is impossible to have a culturally, religiously, and politically neutral education. That means **values**. Government schooling is utterly godless in its worldview and that means that the curriculum and policies of government schools have plenty of non-neutral cultural, political, and religious content and consequences.

89 posted on 03/29/2012 11:02:53 AM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: Gennie; All

I dunno what all the fuss is about.../sarc

The children probably learned more that day on the road than in the school in the first place...

Of course the district, and those who planned this event were doing so by higher authority to test how far and what the reaction would be for them to take this this far...

Wonder how much it cost the disctrict in gas money and extra time for the buss drivers and staff to stupervise the children...

“YOU SPENT HOW MUCH???”

I wonder if anyone (in that community) has the courage to ask the district that question???

Be good to know...


90 posted on 03/29/2012 11:59:05 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus' sayin')
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To: Gennie

fer later


91 posted on 03/29/2012 12:01:37 PM PDT by Rightly Biased (How do you say Arkanicide in Kenyan?)
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To: USMCWife6869; All

All kidding aside...

This “drill” is designed to absolutely stop private citizens from executing their “bug outs” when and if “something” occurs to warrant that family to execute that plan...

Those responsible for shaking things up around the country are doing this for exactly that purpose...While you try to gather your flock, and some are not available for the bug out, because they bussed them off to somewhere...You are certainly going to be crippled, if you have a set plan qand a place to go to get away from urban or populated strife...

You won’t leave your kids, therefore they got you locked down before you have a chance to leave, to be subjugated to their immediate authority, and freedom to move if you so desire...

The school districts are useful idiots in all of this, and when you delve deeper into this and find out what is really driving this trend...The more enlightened you will be...


92 posted on 03/29/2012 12:13:24 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus' sayin')
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To: stevie_d_64

Good question...


93 posted on 03/29/2012 12:13:54 PM PDT by Gennie
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To: stevie_d_64

That is a very good point, because from what I understand, in these scenarios nobody knows where the “safe spot” is until after the “threat has passed”. Not even the parents. I am suprised that more people aren’t alarmed that they are doing this for a planned drill, this was not even a real emergency but something planned that they did with no permission and did not make parents aware as to what the drill would entail.


94 posted on 03/29/2012 12:17:48 PM PDT by Gennie
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To: Pollster1

Where do we find these, “good public schools?”


95 posted on 03/29/2012 12:26:54 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: netmilsmom

No need to get upset. I am not against home schooling. I just think that folks need to be aware of all resources out there.

I am not so sure that ‘times have changed’. I think some of it depends on where one lives and what the parents are like in the local school district.


96 posted on 03/29/2012 12:39:47 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Osage Orange

Again I stress I am not against home schooling. I needed to have chemistry and physics to get into my engineering major ( and that was a long time ago). Not everyone is going to need to same set of classes in order to live well. Not every problem can be fixed with a single solution.


97 posted on 03/29/2012 12:42:15 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: JenB

I do not disagree. I also know most parents are not as motivated as your mom.... even if they are home schooling their children. I am not against home schooling.


98 posted on 03/29/2012 12:43:52 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: wintertime

And your children are the exception not the rule. Home schooled children do really well no doubt about it. I am not ( and in my posts you cannot find) against home schooling.

I know many home schooled children. Not all excel as yours did.


99 posted on 03/29/2012 12:46:04 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Alice in Wonderland

I’m a big fan of Connections Academy. They do a good job and provide, for many courses genuine expertise well beyond the level that typical parents can reach.


100 posted on 03/29/2012 12:49:27 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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