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Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
Chicago Tribune ^ | 3/31/12 | Jeff Weiner

Posted on 03/31/2012 4:44:41 PM PDT by Krankor

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: blackkk; florida; georgezimmerman; trayvonmartin
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To: RIghtwardHo

Which leads me to believe there are more exonerating facts that we haven’t heard yet.

I’m wondering what the EMTs’ reports say? Also, what if any evidence was collected at the scene? Any photos of blood spatter from Zimmerman getting his head bashed?

We don’t have all the facts yet...


51 posted on 03/31/2012 5:37:22 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
Chicago newspaper? Uh uh....no cigar.

Why is it everytime this administration needs to stir the pot a little it always seems to be a newspaper from Chicago?

52 posted on 03/31/2012 5:38:28 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Two experts?

Dan Blather's typewriter experts discovered, that in helping Cap'n Dan prevaricate, their services were no longer in demand, so they went into the audio analysis biz.

53 posted on 03/31/2012 5:39:46 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Krankor

Two experts named Al and Jesse. Their last names are being protected by the kill George society headed by a guy named Spike!


54 posted on 03/31/2012 5:40:17 PM PDT by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: Krankor

I think the trajectory of the bullet is what is ultimately going to disprove Zimmerman’s story. Zimmerman is the son of a retired magistrate and there were obviously strings pulled for him in this case, just like there were in his well documented records of previous violence against the police etc.

If Martin had been on top of Zimmerman and shot in the chest at close range, Zimmerman’s clothes should have been covered with blood, which they were obviously not in the video.

Also, the chief of police being present and the DA driving 50 miles to be at the station on for the occasion all smack of a coverup


55 posted on 03/31/2012 5:40:25 PM PDT by demas415
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To: Tallguy

” Why is it everytime this administration needs to stir the pot a little it always seems to be a newspaper from Chicago? “

Gangsta City

Gangsta POTUS


56 posted on 03/31/2012 5:40:34 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Krankor

Group,

If you are investing yourself in Zimmerman’s innocence you are making a huge mistake. The only thing you should be investing yourself in are the facts.

If this report is true, then it’s true and we should all be thankful such data is available to help shed light on the case.

We cannot accuse Al Sharpton and his ‘race machine’ of jumping to conclusions and then do the same thing ourselves. We should all follow the facts, no matter where they lead and if they lead to Zimmermans convinction, then so be it.


57 posted on 03/31/2012 5:41:02 PM PDT by Mustangman (The GOP)
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To: Vendome

I wasn’t going to go there, but since you did: most cell phone calls are digitized at some point. Spectrum is also limited. Seriously alters the frequency make up of the voice, although not in ways that are apparent to an untrained ear. Would definitely jack with computerized voice comp software, though.


58 posted on 03/31/2012 5:41:02 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Mustangman

Very true.


59 posted on 03/31/2012 5:42:56 PM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: RIghtwardHo
As a former Prosecutor of 25 years I am stunned Zimmerman wasn’t charged with Manslaughter. There is way more than enough probable cause to do so.

lol

60 posted on 03/31/2012 5:42:56 PM PDT by 101stAirborneVet
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To: RIghtwardHo

If Trayvon attacked George and George has the wounds described, it could be hard to charge George with manslaughter if the state has a self defense law in place.

That said, I think George will be charged with manslaughter and the charge will be a political charge more than a fact based charge.

I hope he has a good defense attorney that can make sure the make up of a potential jury isn’t slanted for conviction.

Based on what we have heard, the worst he could get would be involuntary manslaughter. But that won’t be enough for the race baiters, they want death.


61 posted on 03/31/2012 5:43:08 PM PDT by dforest
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To: VastRWCon
"If the angel boy Trayvon was getting his head bashed I wonder if he had any head injuries?"

An article in today's New York Post reported the mortician as saying that Martin had no bruises on his body. My thoughts on that are, I don't care what the mortician says. I want to see the official autopsy report conducted on the kid. Martin's own father said it wasn't his kid screaming for help. And as I and others have said previously, once the state attorney decided there would be no charges filed against Zimmerman, because there wasn't enough evidence in the case to get a conviction, that should have been the end of it. When liberals aren't happy with the results, they figure they can create enough of a media storm to force that it be taken farther. When they can't win the normal way, they change the rules to favor their side. They keep pushing and pushing until they get the answer or response that they want.

62 posted on 03/31/2012 5:43:34 PM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: Krankor

There has been enough information including a lot which is not posted on the main stream media, for a person to fairly well know what happened.

First of all, Trayvon Martin was assuredly a Gangsta and his death very likely saved a lot of people from being mugged, robbed or even killed. The chance that he would have changed his ways are not very high but still we can’t know for sure.

What we do know is that he was a trouble maker, maybe not a hardened criminal but clearly on that path.

About all we know about Zimmerman is that he was a neighborhood watch volunteer. To the media that means he was a self appointed vigilante. From what several of his friends have said he was actually pretty liberal himself. Probably more pro minority than anything else.

There is no doubt at all in my mind that Trayvon was administering a severe beating to him. Probably would have left him badly injured or possibly even dead had he not had the gun.

One more thing about the media. Please no more pictures of a 10 year old kid.


63 posted on 03/31/2012 5:43:53 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: RIghtwardHo
As a former Prosecutor of 25 years I am stunned Zimmerman wasn’t charged with Manslaughter. There is way more than enough probable cause to do so. I certainly expect he will be by the Special Prosecutor. I think 2nd Degree Murder is going to far, but this is somewhere between Involuntary and Voluntary. An easy call.

Former prosecuter? Where did you used to prosecute, somewhere around Duke University? Might be an easy call but hardly an easy conviction.

64 posted on 03/31/2012 5:45:20 PM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: Krankor
48% for Zimmerman... ZERO for Martin is that it???
65 posted on 03/31/2012 5:46:24 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: piytar

Zactly

I’ve been in telecom and had to deal with a variety of issues surrounding voice and had to disabuse plenty of people over the years.

I was discussing voice and latency issues with the VP of North America sales for Citrix on the way down to Palm Springs today.

Nice guy and great coincidence to ring into him as we are on the Hosted Telephony business.

We actually had touched on this subject as our services require similar NOS delivery for our customers


66 posted on 03/31/2012 5:48:20 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Krankor

Everybody just needs to remember that although the “experts” say that it isn’t Zimmerman who is screaming they have not said that it is Martin. They got a 48 percent match for Zimmerman. What happens if they test for Martin and find that they get a 35% match or a 51% match?

It’s a horribly one sided piece of “journalism” that, like most other stuff puked out by the press in this case, doesn’t tell us squat but serves only to fan the flames for the zealots.


67 posted on 03/31/2012 5:48:54 PM PDT by Tucsonican
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To: Mustangman
If this report is true, then it’s true and we should all be thankful such data is available to help shed light on the case.

Agree with you, will wait to form an opinion on this point until we hear analysis from
more experts
using other voice analysis techniques and equipment
and using more voice samples from both Zimmerman and Martin.

68 posted on 03/31/2012 5:48:54 PM PDT by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: Lion Den Dan

this guy also claims he defended cases in front of the Supreme Court.


69 posted on 03/31/2012 5:48:54 PM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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To: demas415; Admin Moderator

Snif? (And see posting history.)


70 posted on 03/31/2012 5:51:24 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: demas415

Excellent Analysis. You’re a thinker....People on both sides need to stop investing in some pre-ordained outcome and start investing in the facts.

I would be absolutely bent over shocked if Zimmerman didn’t get chargerd with something. At this point, the State of Florida is damn near required to turn it over to a jury...whether they think they can prove Zimmerman committed a crime or not.

Because everyone has been so whipped up, the only result the “Hoardes” will respect is one that comes from a jury trial.


71 posted on 03/31/2012 5:51:24 PM PDT by Mustangman (The GOP)
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To: RIghtwardHo
As a former Prosecutor of 25 years I am stunned Zimmerman wasn’t charged with Manslaughter. There is way more than enough probable cause to do so.

Would you be charging manslaughter under
- Virginia law?
- California law?
- or Florida law?

72 posted on 03/31/2012 5:51:50 PM PDT by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: demas415

Your assertions depend on the exact sequence of events.

George was trying to get Trayvon off of him but was physically unable to do so.

The eyewitness said he heard a shot and looked back out of his second floor landing and saw Trayvon dead on the ground, whereas seconds before Trayvon was on top of George.

In a simultaneous shot, and thrust of body to get Travon off of him, and depending on how the bullet went into Trayvon and where, blood did not have to go all over George.

Even if it did, and neither of us knows that it did, they could have collected the shirt and given George another one to put on.

We don’t know.


73 posted on 03/31/2012 5:52:01 PM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

>>>The 911 operator knows the phone number of the incoming call if it is a cell phone.>>>

Exactly my thought.


74 posted on 03/31/2012 5:54:01 PM PDT by kitkat (Obama, rope and chains)
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To: Mustangman
The only thing you should be investing yourself in are the facts. So far I am investing myself in facts such as witnesses who saw who was on top during the struggle(Martin) and who was screaming (Zimmerman), no witnesses who saw otherwise, and video evidence of severe head wounds, and repeated statements by Zimmerman on the 911 call saying that he had lost sight of Martin.
75 posted on 03/31/2012 5:54:20 PM PDT by gopcharger
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To: Salamander

The codec on the pbone can mess with the results. We had to go to a better quality evrc encoder in 2001 when performing voice recognition using Qualcomm chipsets. Unless you know the sampling/encoding and evaluation algorithms, I would treat the “experts” as suspect.


76 posted on 03/31/2012 5:55:03 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: piytar

He is a troll. Call down the Viking Kitties. Who has the ping list?


77 posted on 03/31/2012 5:57:44 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: rlmorel

Admin mod has the zot-a-tron, and darkwing104 has one of the VK lists. Why I cc’d them.

Have been iBTZ for a while. Should be fun!


78 posted on 03/31/2012 5:59:36 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: RIghtwardHo

Did you ever practice law in Florida....didn’t think so.


79 posted on 03/31/2012 5:59:54 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
-- Chicago newspaper? --

Among others. Same story in Baltimore Sun, written by Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinal.

80 posted on 03/31/2012 6:01:21 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: txrangerette

Yeah, I’m not claiming to know. But the bullet trajectory will certainly prove it one way or the other

In the video Zimmerman is still wearing the red jacket, so I’m assuming the police didn’t collect his shirt

Another question I have. If Zimmerman had an open bleeding wound on the back of his head, why didn’t the EMT bandage it?


81 posted on 03/31/2012 6:02:59 PM PDT by demas415
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To: demas415
"...there were obviously strings pulled for him in this case, just like there were in his well documented records of previous violence against the police..."

Really? Please enlighten us with the "obvious" information.

Please. Do it before you are tossed out.

82 posted on 03/31/2012 6:03:39 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: Mustangman

Thank you, sir.


83 posted on 03/31/2012 6:04:15 PM PDT by demas415
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To: RIghtwardHo
Did you ever practice law in Florida? The manslaughter charge was considered by the police as indicated by documents available on the internet. Did you always take the police wishes or suggestions on how to proceed in court case?
84 posted on 03/31/2012 6:04:23 PM PDT by BilLies (Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hate your Traditional American guts!)
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To: rlmorel

Why will I be tossed out?


85 posted on 03/31/2012 6:05:40 PM PDT by demas415
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To: darkwing104

Oops, meant to cc you on this...


86 posted on 03/31/2012 6:06:50 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: txrangerette
We don't know. We don't know if TM was shot while he was on top of GZ. He could have been shot from a distance, and that would have been justifiable as well for self defense.

The forensics will clear up most of this, and hopefully that will be forthcoming.

But, also I don't know if there is a correlation of scream sounds compared to normal speech. That does look like a stretch.

87 posted on 03/31/2012 6:07:38 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: gopcharger

I agree that these are also facts that have been presented. The bottom line is that we never act like a bunch of lefty-loonies. The truth is the truth. Al Sharrpton and Jessee Jackson are getting people whipped up on ‘a guess.’ They may be right in the end but, they may be wrong. In any case, they are being terribly irresponsible.

If Zimmerman is found innocent at the end of the day, he I should sue the ass off of both Sharpton and Jackson for defamation of character. It’s ironic to watch two people whip up up a lynch mob in the name of hating all those white folks who ‘formed up lynch mobs.’


88 posted on 03/31/2012 6:09:02 PM PDT by Mustangman (The GOP)
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To: shhrubbery!
Agree with you, will wait to form an opinion on this point until we hear analysis from more experts using other voice analysis techniques and equipment and using more voice samples from both Zimmerman and Martin.

It's Zimmerman's voice. Zimmerman himself says it in the back of the police car that very night.

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me."

I repeat again - unless you believe that Zimmerman knew that night that there was going to be a question about who was yelling for help, then you must agree that it WAS Zimmerman yelling for help.

89 posted on 03/31/2012 6:09:44 PM PDT by Shethink13
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Too much talk and speculation—lets get to the truth. Time for a lie detector on Zimmerman and the witnesses—all of them. Time to find the medical reports—in this age of forensic science the truth should be simple. This speculation has gone too far and may well lead to violence and further deaths.


90 posted on 03/31/2012 6:11:52 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Krankor

I’ll wait until Abby down in the lab weighs in, thank you.


91 posted on 03/31/2012 6:12:18 PM PDT by Former War Criminal (Who am I? Why am I here?)
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To: RIghtwardHo

Manslaughter? To get a conviction, you would have to show no reasonable belief that Zimmerman was in danger...

“A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?

A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.”

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

“However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force. “

http://www.self-defender.net/law2.htm


92 posted on 03/31/2012 6:12:33 PM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: demas415
Yep, all those Cops investigating a Homicide looked the other way when the learned the Suspect is related to a “retired” Magistrate.

Any evidence to prove the Cops on the scene were aware of that relationship and that they would risk their Careers, and more importantly their Pensions, to "protect" Zimmerman, a man they had never met before that night? Really? LOL

93 posted on 03/31/2012 6:13:06 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (A day without Obama is like a day without a Tsunami.)
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To: demas415
Why will I be tossed out?

Ya know, I clicked reply to try to explain it, but have just realized it's not worth the effort.

94 posted on 03/31/2012 6:13:16 PM PDT by tomkat (resistor)
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To: demas415

IBTZ


95 posted on 03/31/2012 6:13:48 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Shethink13; shhrubbery!

That was a direct quote from the report of the SPD officer who cuffed Zimmerman that night.


96 posted on 03/31/2012 6:14:20 PM PDT by Shethink13
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To: demas415

If you don’t start supplying some valid information to back up your claims that there is a conspriracy going on, there is a very high likelihood that you will be tossed.

Please. You can avoid it, and I am sure you would like to last longer than a few months on Free Republic. Post your obvious information for the rest of us to peruse.

If it is obvious, it should be pretty easy to find and post, right?


97 posted on 03/31/2012 6:14:30 PM PDT by rlmorel (A knife in the chest from a unapologetic liberal is preferable to a knife in the back from a RINO.)
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To: demas415

We don’t know that what you asserted is the way it had to be.

That’s a fact.

There are other ways it could’ve gone down.

To claim it had to be only that one way just loses your credibility.

Well, if you had some to lose, that is.


98 posted on 03/31/2012 6:14:30 PM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: rlmorel

I don’t know why you think I will be tossed out. Zimmerman’s record is public and he was arrested for shoving a policeman and accused of domestic violence.

Those are not nice things to do, and he sounded very disturbed in those recordings.


99 posted on 03/31/2012 6:15:57 PM PDT by demas415
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To: Ozymandias Ghost

Was this man doing it out of civic virtue or was he hired to do this analysis?


100 posted on 03/31/2012 6:16:34 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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