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The 'Islamic Art' Hoax
American Thinker ^ | 4/1/2012 | Jessica Rubin

Posted on 04/01/2012 1:35:44 PM PDT by WPaCon

Talking about Islamic art is rather like talking about the art of the Khanates. The Imperial Kingdom of Genghis Khan was the largest contiguous empire on earth. But just because different lands and cultures were conquered by Genghis Khan doesn't mean that there is a significance to grouping their art. The sphere of power of the Muslim Empire stretched from the borders of China and the Indian subcontinent across Central Asia, the Middle East, North Africa, Sicily, and the Iberian Peninsula, and on to the Pyrenees. There needs to be a further rationale for calling art collections from lands conquered or subdued by the forces of Islam "Islamic Art."

Then why all the impetus, which started in earnest some almost a decade ago, for all the "Islamic Art" openings at prestigious museums, from the Metropolitan Museum of Art to the Victoria and Albert Museum in England? The creation of departments of Islamic art at prestigious universities and museums? The support of prestigious foundations like Doris Duke Foundation for Islamic Art?

It is political correctness.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: art; godsgravesglyphs; silkroad
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1 posted on 04/01/2012 1:35:47 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: WPaCon

‘Art’-?! Are you KIDDING me-?! These geniuses can’t even sharpen their swords correctly- witness those many decapitation videos they put up so prolifcally. Extermination is too good for them...


2 posted on 04/01/2012 1:42:19 PM PDT by imjimbo (The constitution SHOULD be our "gun permit")
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To: WPaCon

What do you call a Jewish merchant rampaging through Europe?

Ghengis Cohen!

LOL!


3 posted on 04/01/2012 1:45:47 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: WPaCon

Is it like the “Islamic intellect” hoax?


4 posted on 04/01/2012 1:51:37 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: WPaCon; fieldmarshaldj; AuH2ORepublican; Impy; GOPsterinMA; randita; Sun; BillyBoy; ...

I admit, I’ve been impressesd by their architecture and pottery, and some of their cuisine, as well. They’re still a culture of bloodthirsty troglodytes.


5 posted on 04/01/2012 1:57:41 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (A chameleon belongs in a pet store, not the White House)
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To: WPaCon
There needs to be a further rationale for calling art collections from lands conquered or subdued by the forces of Islam "Islamic Art."

Without a doubt. If there were really such a thing as "Islamic" art, it would have had common characteristics throughout the geography of their infestation. Yet, we do not see anything like that. Arabic architecture is nothing more than what German, British and Indian architects have created in places like Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and Persian architecture is based on their pre-Islamic cultural heritage.

The Taj Mahal, their ultimate false claim to fame, is heavily based on Indian Hindu temple architecture:


6 posted on 04/01/2012 1:59:29 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: Clintonfatigued

I agree.

For example, the Taj Mahal is very impressive.

To me, Islamic architecture and most other traditional architectural styles are more aesthetically appealing than modern and postmodern architecture.


7 posted on 04/01/2012 2:02:18 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: WPaCon

The Mongol conquest of the Chin, and then the Sung, led to a period in Chinese painting that principally focused on horses.

In the Il-Khanate of Persia, the ceramic and brickwork showed a marked Muslim influence. Interestingly, although the first Khanate to convert to Islam, the Golden Horde did not show such an influence.

The Chaggadids, ruling over a large population of Muslims also showed Islamic influence to a great degree, which increased under the Timurids.

The Toluids, up to the victory of Qublai Quan over his brother Arik Boka, remained largely animist, and showed few outside influences in their art.


8 posted on 04/01/2012 2:03:37 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: James C. Bennett

And built by Indians.


9 posted on 04/01/2012 2:06:48 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: WPaCon

Islamic art is the same thing as Islamic peace

They don’t exist


10 posted on 04/01/2012 2:08:49 PM PDT by Popman (America is squandering its wealth on riotous living, war, and welfare.)
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To: WPaCon

While they chop up ancient buddhas and Christian artiacts

How about works of art like piss-Muhammad or Muhammad’s mother fashioned out of elephant dung


11 posted on 04/01/2012 2:09:03 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: WPaCon

mark


12 posted on 04/01/2012 2:12:58 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: James C. Bennett

As I understand it, “islamic” art doesn’t contain images of people or animals.


13 posted on 04/01/2012 2:14:49 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: James C. Bennett
Another one is the Court of the Lions in the Alhambra in Grenada, Spain.
My understanding is that it was designed by a Jew as Islam forbids the representation of animals.

ML/NJ

14 posted on 04/01/2012 2:22:42 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: cripplecreek

The Taj Mahal is a gravesite for two humans - Shah Jahan and his wife.

As far as Islam is concerned, this glorification of a human gravesite is forbidden. Remember the recent death of that Saudi king? He was buried in true Islamic style, in an unmarked grave.

The Taj Mahal is the complete opposite of the concept, and in violation of Islam itself. Point this out to Muslims who sing about the Taj Mahal and watch them cringe.

The trident-like spire-ornament atop the Taj Mahal is what is usually found atop Hindu temples.


15 posted on 04/01/2012 2:23:56 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: James C. Bennett

Your photo with the reflection reminds me of reading something regarding the supposed second site of what was to be the “Black Mahal”.

One interesting theory was that it was never really to be built but the black silhouette on still water was seen as a separate building in a spiritual realm.


16 posted on 04/01/2012 2:32:44 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: WPaCon

The only Islamic art I have seen are the cartoons mocking muhammed. They are pretty accurate.


17 posted on 04/01/2012 2:54:43 PM PDT by thethirddegree
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To: cripplecreek
"As I understand it, “islamic” art doesn’t contain images of people or animals."

For the most part you're right; muzzies to tend to be iconoclasts. There are a few exceptions, the most notable probably being the Safavid Empire in Iran from about 1500 into the 1600s. Some of their manuscripts, both representational and abstract, rival pretty much anything done in the west, at least in a technical capacity.


18 posted on 04/01/2012 3:15:13 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: WPaCon
It's probably as disingenuous to criticize 'Islamic Art' as not being a true form of art as making a similar criticism of "Christian Art".

There do exist discerning elements in geometry and form used in architecture by Islamic groups and Christian groups.

Compare the architecture of Spain under Islamic control vs Christian control.

Compare Alhambra in Granada Spain as a type of Islamic Architecture. (Alhambra is actually a good example of Islamic, Jewish and Christian architecture. The original construction circa 1100AD was Islamic, later added with the Jewish influenced Lion's Palace (12 lions representing the 12 tribes of Israel), and later added the Carlos V Palace by a Christian Monarch Carlos V beginning circa 1527 and completed in 1957.

Compare this to later 16th century architecture of northern Italy and the Church.

San Apollinare

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=839410&page=6

Alhambra

http://www.alhambra.org/eng/index.asp?secc=/alhambra/alhambras_guide/carlos_v_palace

19 posted on 04/01/2012 3:21:27 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

It’s probably as disingenuous to criticize ‘Islamic Art’ as not being a true form of art as making a similar criticism of “Christian Art”.


This is a thread examining Islamic art. Why don’t you do your own thread on examining Christian art since that is not the topic of this thead.


20 posted on 04/01/2012 3:52:41 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Cvengr
Compare Alhambra in Granada Spain as a type of Islamic Architecture. (Alhambra is actually a good example of Islamic, Jewish and Christian architecture. The original construction circa 1100AD was Islamic, later added with the Jewish influenced Lion's Palace (12 lions representing the 12 tribes of Israel), and later added the Carlos V Palace by a Christian Monarch Carlos V beginning circa 1527 and completed in 1957.

Alhambra and the Taj Mahal are beautiful works of both art and architecture no matter who designed, influenced or built them. I’d like to one day see both in person. The mosaic tile work, which is Islamic, is the most impressive to me. And some of the textiles, rugs for instance that came from Islamic countries are truly works of art in and of themselves. But I also love many of the textiles that come from India.

Not long ago I passed by a very attractive Indian woman wearing a traditional sari that was indescribably beautiful. The deep and rich colors, the finely detailed embroidery and bead work and the way the differently weighted fabrics were draped and flowed; it was absolutely beautiful and very feminine and I couldn’t help thinking how much I’d like to wear something like that – no, not every day but on a special occasion, I think I would feel beautiful wearing that. I’d also love to be able to afford a really good “oriental rug”, i.e. such as those once made in Iran or Turkey one day; I’d have no problem having one in my home.

21 posted on 04/01/2012 3:58:08 PM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: WPaCon; Fred Nerks; Cronos; cradle of freedom; nuconvert
Very good article - "Islamic Art" is a fallacy.

And, looking at Islam itself, it is more accurate to say that "Islamic Art" survived in spite of Islam rather than because of it.

Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said: Those who paint pictures would be punished on the Day of Resurrection and it would be said to them: Breathe soul into what you have created. (Sahih Muslim vol.3, no.5268)

The last paragraph may explain why Shia sect of Islam, influenced more by pre-Islamic Iranian (Persian) culture, post-Safavid dynasty (15 to 17 century AD), allows display of paintings, including that of Mohamad, and the Shia 12ers imams, whereas Sunnis don't.

Btw, Genghis Khan (the Monghol) was a brute; the Monghol savagery in Iran was infinitely worse than preceding Arab-Moslem invaders.

22 posted on 04/01/2012 4:15:22 PM PDT by odds
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To: James C. Bennett; cripplecreek
Lots of photos at links (scroll down).

Pre and Post Islam Persian Architecture -- Persian Gardens -- Sassanid Architecture -- Vaulted Hall Eyvan

Examples, The Spiral Fire Temple tower is the architectural precedent of the Great Mosque of Samarra (photo at 3rd link). The round Domes we see on top of mosques in fact dates back to Sassanid architecture & dome-shaped structures inside and outside buildings in Iran (pictures below are based on Sassanid pre-Islamic architecture)

Also, pre-Islamic Persian Gardens (photos below are current ones in Shiraz, Iran), during the Achaemenid Dynasty (dynasty founded by Cyrus the Great) were known as pairidaēza (Avestan) - paridaida (Old Persian), and in Median *paridaiza- (walled-around, i.e., a walled garden)- the English word "Paradise" is derived from the original Avestan & Persian words.

The pre-Islamic style & architecture also heavily influenced those found in Southern Spain, e.g. Andalucia region and in cities such as Cordoba, Granada and Seville.


23 posted on 04/01/2012 4:15:50 PM PDT by odds
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To: ml/nj
Representation of animals was also very common and popular in pre-Islamic Persian Architecture.

Picture: Perspolis in Shiraz - Iran

24 posted on 04/01/2012 4:17:34 PM PDT by odds
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To: Joe 6-pack
There are a few exceptions, the most notable probably being the Safavid Empire in Iran from about 1500 into the 1600s.

That's right. The Safavid who also brutally imposed Shia Islam on Iranians and made it the official state religion, in that respect were influenced by pre-Islamic Iranian (Persian) architecture & culture - posts 22 & 24.

25 posted on 04/01/2012 4:23:11 PM PDT by odds
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To: odds

Taj Mahal: Was it a Vedic Temple?

The Photographic Evidence

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/was_the_taj_mahal_a_vedic_temple.htm


26 posted on 04/01/2012 4:39:47 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: WPaCon
And then there's this :

Genghis Khan understood muslims. That is why the only cities he utterly destroyed and razed to the ground and killed all the city’s inhabitants were Islamic cities. With all other non-muslim cities, he captured them and added them to his empire while allowing the citizens to keep their religions and cultures.

27 posted on 04/01/2012 4:46:50 PM PDT by Publius6961 (It’s easy to make phony promises you can’t keep. - Obama, Feb23, 2012)
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To: Fred Nerks

Yes, very possible.

When I said it dates back to the Sassanid era (the dome shaped structures we see on top of mosques, post-Islam in Iran), it could actually go back to before the Sassanid period in Iran. The Sassanid is only one period, which is most significant at least for Iran, because it was just before the Islam-Arab invasion, hence their post-Islamic influence in Iran.

As for Taj Mahl being a Vedic Temple, the key, imo, is that the Aryans whose culture influenced architecture, among other cultural aspects, in India as well as Iran, pre-Islam, belong to the same race or group of people, who long ago immigrated from central Asia to Iran and India, as well as in today’s Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan, and other central Asian countries. Therefore, similarities & common threads, including in architecture, do exist and overlap, way before the Sassanid period.

Interesting read about Aryans (the Avesta, and the Hindu scriptures, the Rig Veda) — http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/index.htm


28 posted on 04/01/2012 4:56:25 PM PDT by odds
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To: WPaCon
My take: after 911, the Koranimals were seen as they are TOAY, and as they have been, except in periods of protracted military defeat.

Saudi Arabia and their money launderers worldwide, including their "Irish" millionaire, spent hundreds of millions promoting the islamic golden age worldwide.

Art culture is not exactly the most ethical and moral culture, and the most moneygrubbing. They give global warming idiots a run for their money.

True muslim art is more accurately "cartoons." 'Nuff said.

29 posted on 04/01/2012 5:05:25 PM PDT by Publius6961 (It’s easy to make phony promises you can’t keep. - Obama, Feb23, 2012)
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To: SaraJohnson

My post was about Islamic art in their architecture. IMHO, far more architectural works labeled ‘Islamic’, were previously Christian or Jewish architectures before they were seized by Muslims. E.g. the Temple Mount.

Alhambra, though followed the reverse trend. If one studies Alhambra they can learn to identify some trends attributable to that religion, distinct from others.


30 posted on 04/01/2012 7:36:40 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Publius6961
Don't think he did a good job if his intention was the elimination of Islam & Islamic ideology, since most of the Islamic countries invaded by him remained Islamic. Later, his grandson Berke and Monghol successors, The Golden Horde, and Turco-Monghol (Khanate), converted to or adopted Islam, themselves. The latter mostly by taking muslim wives.

Wikipedia (linking to other sources there) says this about Genghis Khan:

He was famous for being merciless. Known for killing boys and men of captured cities; and kidnapping the woman and girls. To a question about the source of happiness he was known to have said: "The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters." [11] A scientific support to this claim is made by mapping of Y chromosmes in Asia, showing a prevalence of 1/500 of all males being directly related to him. [12]

Actually, I particularly believe the last sentence in the above paragraph, not only about boys, but also girls in Central Asia, including Iran today.

There are more than a few Uzbeks, Tajiks, Afghans, Turkmen, and even those in both Republic of Azarbaijan, and the Iranian province of Azarbaijan, who could easily pass for half-blood Chinese, Monghol or Eastern Asian, because of their facial features, particularly their slightly slanted eyes (epicanthal fold). Some of them more obvious than others.

Whilst it could also be due to migration over the centuries, as well as weather conditions, I don't think migration or weather conditions are entirely responsible.

31 posted on 04/01/2012 7:44:54 PM PDT by odds
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To: Cvengr

We agree. :) The whole Koran is the Bible turned up-side-down.


32 posted on 04/01/2012 8:34:19 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Clintonfatigued; WPaCon
wp--> as James pointed out in post 6, the Taj Mahal was based on north Indian Hindu architecture

Wpa--> the architecture is mostly from before Islam --> for example the various arches etc. in La Mesquita are from Byzantine art. Cuisine -- that is pre-Islamic mostly....

33 posted on 04/01/2012 9:18:09 PM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: PzLdr
regarding the Ilkhanate -- the cart would be more correctly called Persian or Arabic in origin in the sense that the art forms depictred predated Islam.

"Christian" art is religious iconography or even one can call Gothic architecture as Christian because its thought process etc. was Christian in nature. islamic "art" is not possible due to the injuncts in the Koran --> unless one includes calligraphy. Islamic "architecture" on the other hands, to some extent yes in the later years when the synthesis of Indic, Iranic, Chinese, Arabic and Byzantine art forms came about, but derived from Islam, I would doubt

34 posted on 04/01/2012 11:00:49 PM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: Fred Nerks; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks WPaCon.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


35 posted on 04/02/2012 5:08:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
Here is a fine example of islamic architecture. The home of sheiky leeky hovelmud.

It is a wonder they can stack one brick atop another. spit.

36 posted on 04/02/2012 5:26:18 PM PDT by bigheadfred (MY PET TAPEWORM (OBIWAN) IS AN INSANE MILITARY HATING LEFTIST)
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To: WPaCon; SunkenCiv

And furthermore it ISN’T Mo Ham Med. It is ME HOME MUD. Get it right people.


37 posted on 04/02/2012 5:28:53 PM PDT by bigheadfred (MY PET TAPEWORM (OBIWAN) IS AN INSANE MILITARY HATING LEFTIST)
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To: Clintonfatigued

A lot of the art is nice, artichtecure. Ottoman calligraphy.

Food? No thanks.


38 posted on 04/02/2012 5:36:07 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: bigheadfred

LOL!


39 posted on 04/02/2012 5:53:09 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Impy

Most of the art is from ages past, how much beauty have they made in the last century?


40 posted on 04/02/2012 5:57:34 PM PDT by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: WPaCon

Orham Pamuk, a Turk, won the Nobel prize for literature with an really great novel, “My Name Is Red”. It is a mystery whose subcontext is the the difficulty of Muslim artists reconciling their art with the tenets of their religion which forbids representational art.


41 posted on 04/02/2012 6:02:57 PM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: Mmogamer; Clintonfatigued

You’re right, I’m unaware of any contemporary art from the Islamic world.

Lets google it

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4987284.stm

3 paintings shown there, all crappy.


42 posted on 04/02/2012 6:05:13 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: Impy

I’m unaware of any contemporary anything from the Islamic world except for violence, death, and destruction.


43 posted on 04/02/2012 6:10:58 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (A chameleon belongs in a pet store, not the White House)
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To: SunkenCiv

I guess I do have some small respect for the Bedouins. At least they figured out when you couldn’t dig a hole to crap in without flinging crap everywhere it was time to move on. Not like the rest.


44 posted on 04/02/2012 6:16:45 PM PDT by bigheadfred (MY PET TAPEWORM (OBIWAN) IS AN INSANE MILITARY HATING LEFTIST)
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To: WPaCon

I like some of the tile work in their mosques and some of the Islamic cuisine of the Mediterranean which belongs other peoples too. For example humus crosses national and cultural boundaries

But for the most part I Don’t see much culture


45 posted on 04/02/2012 6:29:14 PM PDT by dennisw (A nation of sheep breeds a government of Democrat wolves!)
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To: ml/nj

The use of alabaster there and in Granada was amazing. It made everything feel cloudlike.


46 posted on 04/02/2012 6:46:44 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: Cronos
The Spanish kept the influence: Aranjuez
47 posted on 04/02/2012 6:55:51 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: James C. Bennett

The Islamic dome was stolen from the engineering and artistic design of Byzantine Christians.


48 posted on 04/02/2012 6:57:59 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: ml/nj

Are those twelve bulls supporting a fountain?


49 posted on 04/02/2012 7:16:44 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: odds

So the Shia have no problem depicting Mohammad?


50 posted on 04/02/2012 7:20:37 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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