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Prosecutor: Account that he, police chief opted not to arrest Martin's shooter a 'lie'
CNN ^ | April 2, 2012 | CNN Wire Staff

Posted on 04/02/2012 3:04:40 PM PDT by Cboldt

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To: Brilliant
-- But it's still not clear what in particular he is denying. --

I agree ... still digging. Right now I'm looking for an early or original source of "Wolfinger got out of bed and drove 40 min. to go to the station" or similar.

-- It might work, particularly if Corey decides to indict. Then the focus will be on her. --

Of course. If there is an indictment, "mission accomplished" as far as Crump is concerned. And Crump wants to avoid focus, if there is not an indictment. Blame everybody, Corey, feds, Wolfinger, Lee, and the current occupants of those offices.

51 posted on 04/02/2012 5:19:48 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: lonestar
-- Why would they have met the night of the shooting to make decisions about an arrest contrary to what cops had decided when it was weeks away from being a big deal? --

The argument is that Serino would have had an arrest, because his position would be persuasive to the police chief, Lee. But Lee didn't want to arrest Zimmerman (for whatever reason - some claim it's a personal favor of some sort, or racial animus, etc.). Given a conflict at the station, Lee calls Wolfinger either for support, or to make the call.

All of that drama could play without thinking this was a national issue. Sanford may be a racial powder keg of its own right.

52 posted on 04/02/2012 5:25:12 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

the media creating another lie to try and steer this story?

why that is shocking I tell you SHOCKING! / mega S

BTW they’ve been quite courageous so far, lets just hope these guys in FLA don’t buckle to the media PC pressure.


53 posted on 04/02/2012 5:25:42 PM PDT by Cubs Fan (if it weren't for double standards the left wouldn't have any standards at all)
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To: Cboldt
I read the denial the same way that you do.

In addition, the way the article is phrased, it brings into question the existence of the Serino affidavit.

On that topic, this is something interesting, I think, regarding Serino and the "affidavit."

Investigator Chris Serino of Sanford police said Friday the agency has worked closely with prosecutors, and have not arrested Zimmerman because prosecutors have consistently told them they do not have enough evidence to win a manslaughter conviction.

That's because Zimmerman says he was defending himself, something he's allowed to do under Florida law.

The best account of what happened came from Zimmerman, Serino said. Other witnesses who saw or heard parts of what happened corroborate his version of events, the investigator said.
That story is from March 17th. Certainly there is no reason for Serino to expressed any doubts he may have had in a public statement, but I'm not sure what obligation he had to make any public statement at all.
54 posted on 04/02/2012 5:26:31 PM PDT by PhatHead
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To: Jaded
-- Anything the Martin parade puts out there is taken as gospel. Disgusting. --

Agreed. Every piece of material falsehood I've picked up so far comes from Crump or his sidekick.

55 posted on 04/02/2012 5:27:09 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

I think there is enough evidence to indict. You can indict a ham sandwich, as they say. We really don’t know what happened between the time that Zimmerman began chasing Martin and the time that Martin was shot. All we’ve got is Zimmerman’s story, and the broken snipets of a few eyewitnesses. So they can get an indictment.

They can probably overcome a show cause hearing. Whether they can get a conviction is quite another matter. And what happens after he’s acquitted is as well.


56 posted on 04/02/2012 5:28:53 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Cboldt
Right now I'm looking for an early or original source of "Wolfinger got out of bed and drove 40 min. to go to the station" or similar.

I could have sworn I read in an early story that police consulted by telephone with an assistant State Attorney who advised them not to file charges. It was presented as a criticism of the process, because normally a prosecutor comes to the scene, and this was only done by phone - and it definitely was not Wolfinger they were talking about - pretty sure it was a woman.

57 posted on 04/02/2012 5:29:53 PM PDT by PhatHead
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To: Cboldt

I still don’t understand why these people would be involved with what was considered rather routine that night...wasn’t it?


58 posted on 04/02/2012 5:33:37 PM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: martinidon
I do not think there will be a conviction for or against Zimmerman by any court.

Well, despite similar publicity, OJ managed to get a "fair" trial. I'm sure a similar jury could do the "right thing" in this case.

59 posted on 04/02/2012 5:39:49 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: Brilliant
He might well be denying being present at the meeting, at all.

Trayvon shooter will surrender if charged - Tuesday April 03, 2012 (yes, that's the date on the webpage): Reuters

ABC News reported last week that Sanford police detective Chris Serino, unconvinced by Zimmerman's story of self-defence, wanted to charge him with manslaughter, but was overruled by Wolfinger's office.

A separate report by news website TheGrio.com, unconfirmed by Reuters, said Wolfinger left his home the Sunday night of the shooting to meet with Sanford police in person.

Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for the Martin family, asked the Justice Department in a letter on Monday to investigate those reports. Though the letter reported the events without attribution, Crump told Reuters his information came from the media reports and he did not have independent verification.

I'm getting a sense that the black folks have some local axes to grind. Lots of tidbits in this article.

Governor calls for special prosecutor - Dara Kam - Palm Beach Post Staff Writer - March 22, 2012

And the governor's announcement came the day after several Democratic black state lawmakers asked him to remove Seminole County State Attorney Norman Wolfinger, whom they accused of being too close to Lee and the sheriff's office. ...

"We want an arrest, we want a conviction and we want him sentenced for the murder of my son," Martin's father, Tracy, said.


60 posted on 04/02/2012 5:41:54 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Brilliant
-- I think there is enough evidence to indict. --

I don't see it. The reliable evidence favors Zimmerman's story. The fact that alternative scenario's can be fabricated is irrelevant as a matter of law.

-- We really don't know what happened between the time that Zimmerman began chasing Martin and the time that Martin was shot. All we've got is Zimmerman's story, and the broken snipets of a few eyewitnesses. --

And all of that supports Zimmerman. There is never a need for metaphysical certainty at this stage. What is needed is probable cause. The pieces do not support a finding that Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation.

61 posted on 04/02/2012 5:47:00 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

Do we know the name of the police officer whose son beatup the homeless man Zimmerman was supporting with posters, meetings etc? Is there a person with a grudge in the department trying to pay Zimmerman back?


62 posted on 04/02/2012 5:47:51 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: martinidon
I don't think we could ever get the truth.

What 'truth' don't you think we can 'get to'?

Recordings will be analyzed - and we'll know who was yelling for help.

EMT's will file medical reports and we'll know the extend of Zimmerman's wounds. Not from 'pictures' while he's getting out of a car - but from the people who treated him on the spot.

Toxicology reports will be made public.

What 'facts' are you concerned about? By the way - truth has NOTHING what so ever to do with the number of people marching or not marching - or blogging or not - or yelling. None of those things have anything to do with the case.

63 posted on 04/02/2012 5:49:06 PM PDT by GOPJ (Democrat-Media Complex - buried stories and distorted facts... freeper 'andrew' Breitbart)
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To: lonestar
-- I still don't understand why these people would be involved with what was considered rather routine that night...wasn't it? --

Wasn't the first shooting in the Twin Lakes. But I don't think shootings were routine either.

I agree, and am starting to get suspicious that the allegation that Wolfinger was even called is BS from the get go.

64 posted on 04/02/2012 5:49:43 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

I’m sure Wolfinger wanted the special prosecutor as well. The last thing an elected official wants is to be in the middle of something like this. I don’t believe that Zimmerman would have been released though unless Wolfinger had approved it. Wolfinger was probably focused entirely on the fact that it would be difficult to obtain a conviction. But in a case like this, that can’t be the only consideration. And he obviously knew that cases like this often result in some kind of a plea.


65 posted on 04/02/2012 5:50:02 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: hoosiermama
-- Do we know the name of the police officer whose son beatup the homeless man Zimmerman was supporting with posters, meetings etc? Is there a person with a grudge in the department trying to pay Zimmerman back? --

Could be. That's far afield of where I'll ever be researching. Good luck!

66 posted on 04/02/2012 5:51:39 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Brilliant

Brother of Z says the police have some undisclosed information/witness during that time period that settles the case in Z’s favor. What would the possibly have?


67 posted on 04/02/2012 5:52:33 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: Brilliant

Brother of Z says the police have some undisclosed information/witness during that time period that settles the case in Z’s favor. What would they possibly have?


68 posted on 04/02/2012 5:52:58 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: martinidon
The Media has already convicted Zimmerman.

The media hates us - hates conservatives. Do you accept that judgement? Are we worthy of their hate? Have we earned it?

They hate the military. Don't like Christians. Can't stand Southerners, businessmen, or Republicans...

And now they don't like Zimmerman - and he's a Hispanic, 'brown', democrat.

And our response to them? We cancel our newspaper subscriptions, quit watching network news, and point out their biases. We DON'T put out 'Wanted Dead OF Alive' posters. Because we're not lawless little thugs.

69 posted on 04/02/2012 5:56:10 PM PDT by GOPJ (Democrat-Media Complex - buried stories and distorted facts... freeper 'andrew' Breitbart)
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To: Brilliant
-- I don't believe that Zimmerman would have been released though unless Wolfinger had approved it. --

What's the evidence you have, of Wolfinger being involved on February 26th/27th? When did that evidence come out? Who is making the assertion?

70 posted on 04/02/2012 5:56:44 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

Watch. I predict an indictment. The question of whether he is innocent or guilty isn’t decided at this stage. That’s for trial. The only question is whether there is enough evidence to file charges. And that is largely a matter of what the prosecutor (Corey) thinks. Then they will have a preliminary hearing at which the judge will have to decide if there is probable cause. He might dismiss it at that point, but I would say even that is unlikely. There is going to be tremendous pressure to put this off onto a jury. The only way I can see it not getting to a jury is if he makes a plea, and even then the prosecution would probably not accept it unless Martin’s family agrees.


71 posted on 04/02/2012 5:56:50 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Cboldt

No evidence. I’m just saying I don’t think they would have released him without getting Wolfinger’s approval. He’s the State Attorney. Of course they would consult him.


72 posted on 04/02/2012 5:59:20 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Cboldt
I think something is wrong with the father. Big commotion right near the house and he nver reported his son missing until the next morning??

Now, that's not a baby...and dad originally said he didn't expect him home that night so why did he call cops first thing in the morning. Tray was not a 10 year old. Somethings wrong with daddy's story...????? And now he comes out with a blatant lie??

73 posted on 04/02/2012 6:02:28 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Brilliant
-- I don't believe that Zimmerman would have been released though unless Wolfinger had approved it. --

I find vibes of community anger from around March 10:

Not only is the State's Attorney Norman Wolfinger not prosecuting, he is withholding evidence the family of Trayvon is demanding.

But nothing about him being involved in the release decision in the first place.

ABC News comes out on March 27:

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News. ...

Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.


74 posted on 04/02/2012 6:03:36 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

If he wasn’t involved, then either he wasn’t doing his job or the police weren’t doing their job by getting him involved. He’s the State Attorney, so it’s his decision whether to prosecute. Whether it’s reported in the media is beside the point.


75 posted on 04/02/2012 6:06:29 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant
From the original Stanford report, mention of contacting the State AG to decide what calls to release.

Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released?

There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the subdivision, and the non-emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion...

76 posted on 04/02/2012 6:07:48 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: Brilliant
-- Watch. I predict an indictment. --

That's different from your previous "I think there is enough evidence to indict." which is what I was responding to.

Your remarks didn't address the evidence, just the politics, and the process, in general terms.

No evidence that Wolfinger met with or spoke with Sanford police? None? Well then, what's to discuss. Wolfinger's denial then covers EVERY point in Crump's accusatory letter, and there is no reason for confusion.

77 posted on 04/02/2012 6:10:04 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: FreedomPoster

did you see the non-returnable fees he charges? ridiculous


78 posted on 04/02/2012 6:12:24 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Cboldt
In particular, we learned that on the night of February 26, 2012, within hours ofthe shooting in which TraWon Martin was killed, Sanford Chief of_Police Bill Lee met with State Attomey Norm Wolfinger.

Sounds like quite the line of BS to me.

Why would ANY of the events that occurred that night prompt a meeting in the wee hours of the morning between an investigator in the case, the Chief of Police and the State Atty for Seminole County?

On a Sunday.

79 posted on 04/02/2012 6:14:17 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (The Democrat Ku Klux Klan is alive and well nowadays as the NAACP and the Congressional Black Caucus)
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To: Cboldt

Wolfinger may be denying a meeting to conspire against the investigation happened; not necessarily denying that a meeting happened.


80 posted on 04/02/2012 6:15:21 PM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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To: Cboldt

See above it’s from
http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

Read more tab of Faq letter


81 posted on 04/02/2012 6:15:57 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: Cboldt; Brilliant
Here is a pretty good round-up of who made what call the night of the shooting:
The State Attorney's Office confirmed to NBC 6 late Tuesday that Sanford Police spoke with the on-call prosecutor the night of the Martin shooting.
There's more detail in the story. Wolfinger is not mentioned.
82 posted on 04/02/2012 6:17:42 PM PDT by PhatHead
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To: Brilliant
-- If he wasn't involved, then either he wasn't doing his job or the police weren't doing their job by getting him involved. He's the State Attorney, so it's his decision whether to prosecute. Whether it's reported in the media is beside the point. --

My impression is that there is a more local authority, and that if Wolfinger was involved on the 26th/27th, that involvement would be unusual.

Wolfinger is not the only person in the state with the authority to arrest.

The decision to press charges is separate from a decision to arrest, and need not be made in the several hours after the shooting. Grand jury and all that.

Whether and when it's reported in the media is of interest in this case. Not for deciding whether or not Zimmerman is arrested and charged; but to probe for media shenanigans.

There's a lot of BS out there, like 3 days in the morgue, unclaimed. Lee met with Wolfinger on 26/27 Feb may be another utter falsehood.

83 posted on 04/02/2012 6:18:24 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: hoosiermama

I have no problem with the question of timing of release of 911 recordings. That’s not at all the issue here.


84 posted on 04/02/2012 6:21:41 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt
It appear from the FAQ letter at the town's site, it was all over whether or not the 911 calls were to be released. Family wanted: The State Office in consultation said "NO" at that time. Later they were posted and the statement:

At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. has come true.

85 posted on 04/02/2012 6:25:41 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: Cboldt

“Your remarks didn’t address the evidence, just the politics, and the process, in general terms.”

Yes, that is true. But you don’t really need much evidence to get an indictment. If the prosecutor says she wants the grand jury to indict, the mere fact that it was Zimmerman’s gun that fired the shot will be more than enough, I think.

More likely, the prosecutor would conclude that she doesn’t want to prosecute this case because she doesn’t think she can win. But since the family and the black community are pushing for it, they are going to let the courts and a jury decide this. The “we can’t win” thought is something you have when you don’t want to waste public resources bringing a case that you’ll ultimately lose anyway. But the public resources are going to be a secondary concern here. They are more concerned about preventing a riot, and preserving their own credibility with the black community. They are advocates, which means that they don’t have to pretend to be unbiased. It’s the jury that needs to be unbiased, and it’s the jury that needs to make the decision.


86 posted on 04/02/2012 6:27:58 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Cboldt

The issue is whether they consulted with the State AG office. They did. But it was simply over whether to release 911 calls. No big deal.


87 posted on 04/02/2012 6:29:25 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: PhatHead; Cboldt

I thought there was a statement on the city of Sanford cite that disputed the Serino statement, saying, in effect, that that was erroneous.

Anyone else remember that?


88 posted on 04/02/2012 6:30:30 PM PDT by spacejunkie2001
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To: hoosiermama
Well, yeah, I do have that sort of problem. What I meant to say was that I was trying to figure out Wolfinger's involvment in the no arrest decision of Feb 26/27; and that I was not presently (and probably never will) involved in an issue involving the timing of Wolfinger's involvement in the release of the 911 recordings and other materials.
89 posted on 04/02/2012 6:31:53 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: spacejunkie2001

Link at 77


90 posted on 04/02/2012 6:32:38 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: hoosiermama
Do we know the name of the police officer whose son beatup the homeless man Zimmerman was supporting with posters, meetings etc? Is there a person with a grudge in the department trying to pay Zimmerman back?

The young man who committed the assault is named Justin Collison, and stories say his father was a police lieutenant. But since it was a video of teh assault that led to Collison's eventual arrest, I'm not sure who would blame Zimmerman for that. I've searched old news stories, and he was certainly not a prominent enough voice at the time to be reported in the newspaper.

91 posted on 04/02/2012 6:36:05 PM PDT by PhatHead
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To: Cboldt

“Wolfinger is not the only person in the state with the authority to arrest. The decision to press charges is separate from a decision to arrest, and need not be made in the several hours after the shooting.”

Yes, that’s true, but they had already arrested him. The question was whether to release him, and the obvious question was whether Wolfinger was going to file charges immediately, because if he was, then they certainly would not release him. I don’t see how they could have released him without discussing the matter with Wolfinger. In theory, I suppose they could have done it, but it seems very unlikely.


92 posted on 04/02/2012 6:36:28 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: PhatHead
Thanks for that. I clicked through to Sanford cops wanted to charge Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin case - Miami Herald - 27 March. No mention in that one of a Wolfinger meeting or call on 26/27 Feb, either.
93 posted on 04/02/2012 6:40:09 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

IMO the Martin team is reading in material that is just not there. Someone says they consulted with the state AG, a few sentences later they say “they” decided not to press charges and they family reads into it that the ‘they’ includes the state AG. There is even a name for it which I can’t recall just now.

Really don’t think there is more to the AG office consultation. Mole hill made into a mountain....Drama drama drama.

People who live their lives in denial are known to do that kind of thing. This family lived in denial big time....The young innocent pictures of their son was how they knew him. Head was in sand regarding his acting out/call for help.


94 posted on 04/02/2012 6:41:45 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: Logical me

Looks like they recovered from their sorrow and outrage in time to patent the Trayvon name so that they could profit from t-shirt sales and merchandise.

Stay classy, folks.


95 posted on 04/02/2012 6:43:21 PM PDT by altura
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To: Cboldt

IMO the Martin team is reading in material that is just not there. Someone says they consulted with the state AG, a few sentences later they say “they” decided not to press charges and the family reads into it that the ‘they’ includes the state AG. There is even a name for it which I can’t recall just now.

Really don’t think there is more to the AG office consultation. Mole hill made into a mountain....Drama drama drama.

People who live their lives in denial are known to do that kind of thing. This family lived in denial big time....The young innocent pictures of their son was how they knew him. Head was in sand regarding his acting out/call for help.


96 posted on 04/02/2012 6:47:22 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God anhttp://sanfordfl.gov/inved Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: Brilliant
-- Yes, that's true, but they had already arrested him. The question was whether to release him, and the obvious question was whether Wolfinger was going to file charges immediately, because if he was, then they certainly would not release him. --

Technically, they had Zimmerman in custody, but I think it was voluntary on his part, so he was not technically under arrest. Doesn't change the results any, just changes the terminology from "the question was whether to release him" to "the question was whether to detain (arrest) him."

I believe the police have the authority to arrest - I'm near certain of it. But in order to do so, they must have probable cause. Arrest without probable cause opens them up to suit.

I am also of the impression that, arrest and detain, or not, it would be routine to forward the report to Wolfinger's office for a decision on whether or not to press charges. IOW, that communication takes place no matter what.

Asked to confirm that the police recommended a manslaughter charge, special prosecutor Angela Corey said: "I don't know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: "We're through with our investigation and here it is for you." The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in mid-stream."

A capias is a request for charges to be filed.

The Seminole County State Attorney's Office declined to comment on whether its prosecutors ever recommended against filing charges.

So, from that, I gather that the routine request for charges, plus arranging time before a grand jury, that was done - even though Zimmerman had not been placed under arrest and held in custody pending the outcome of the grand jury's action.

97 posted on 04/02/2012 6:51:24 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: 6SJ7
So we need at least 5 public officials conspiring with Zimmerman to cover up a murder.

Right out of the Sharpton/Brawley handbook: Make the "conspiracy" ever larger. Eventually involve the mayor, the Highway Patrol and a State Senator. At least.

98 posted on 04/02/2012 6:51:52 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: Cboldt

Did you also notice on that Herald story police said a doctor’s report confirmed Zimmerman’s injuries? I assumed there would be such a report, but hadn’t seen that reported elsewhere...


99 posted on 04/02/2012 6:52:35 PM PDT by PhatHead
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To: martinidon

At this point I think only a federal Violation of Civil Rights
could get a conviction, you know, like with the Rodney King thing. The DoJ is there to rectify the political mistakes of state and local juries.


100 posted on 04/02/2012 6:55:35 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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