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'Who, What, Why: How many soldiers died in the US Civil War?'
BBC News ^ | 4th April 2012 | BBC News

Posted on 04/04/2012 6:34:20 AM PDT by the scotsman

'A study suggests a previously widely accepted death toll of the US Civil War may actually be way under the mark. How many did perish in this conflict, fought before the era of modern record-keeping and DNA identification?

The US Civil War was incontrovertibly the bloodiest, most devastating conflict in American history, and it remains unknown - and unknowable - exactly how many men died in Union and Confederate uniform.

Now, it appears a long-held estimate of the war's death toll could have undercounted the dead by as many as 130,000. That is 21% of the earlier estimate - and more than twice the total US dead in Vietnam.'

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; greatestpresident

1 posted on 04/04/2012 6:34:29 AM PDT by the scotsman
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To: the scotsman

Thanks for posting.

The battlefield photo with the dead soldiers which accompanies the story just broke my heart.

As much as I try to wrap my head around what the Civil War must have been like I just don’t think — particularly as someone with no military or war experience — what those soldiers (and the rest of the country, for that matter) went through.


2 posted on 04/04/2012 6:41:02 AM PDT by AtlasStalled
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To: AtlasStalled
As much as I try to wrap my head around what the Civil War must have been like I just don’t think — particularly as someone with no military or war experience — what those soldiers (and the rest of the country, for that matter) went through.

Years ago I had a dream that I was *IN* the civil war. It was horrifying. The subsequent consequence of the civil war (expansion of the Federal Behemoth) are also horrifying.

3 posted on 04/04/2012 6:56:43 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: the scotsman

The Lincoln Library in Springfield, Illinois has a display on the Civil War and there’s a running counter of the daily deaths that cover the war years and I remember it was around 700,000 on both sides. The war covered an area equivalent of the distance from Oslo, Norway to Athens, Greece. Greece being the same size as Arkansas or Alabama. On the same note, you can almost fit two and a half Europe’s in the US.


4 posted on 04/04/2012 7:01:26 AM PDT by SkyDancer (Talent Without Ambition Is Sad - Ambition Without Talent Is Worse)
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To: the scotsman

I’ll never forget a statistic that Pat Buchanan (why oh why didn’t he run for pres?) mentioned years ago: The number of Negroes brought to the U.S. in the slave trade numbered approx. 675,000 . . . the number of deaths in combat in the Civil War were approx. 660,000.

The similarity in these two numbers is almost too coincidental . . . almost 1 to 1 that God made us pay for the tragedy that was the slave trade and the Civil War.

I do a lecture here at my medical vocational school about Civil War Medicine. I start my lecture with asking the students for the years that the Civil War was fought, and very, very seldom do any of the students get within 60 years . . . thank you, public screwl systems!

Of course, you can argue that quite a few war deaths were from the slave-holding South, but virtually none of the southern combatants were slave holders.


5 posted on 04/04/2012 7:02:34 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: AtlasStalled
It's very hard for me to wrap my head around any kind of history. And yet I try to do it every day. As William Faulkner said, "The past isn't dead; it isn't even past."
6 posted on 04/04/2012 7:03:08 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("He who does not have 3,000 years at his fingertips is living hand-to-mouth."-J. Wolfgang von Goethe)
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To: laweeks

300,000 mostly white men from the north gave their lives in the struggle that freed the slaves.


7 posted on 04/04/2012 7:09:38 AM PDT by Fido969
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To: the scotsman

The Civil War makes me sick. Every other civilized country got rid of slavery without such bloodshed. Just don’t tell me Lincoln was a great President.


8 posted on 04/04/2012 7:22:08 AM PDT by grumpa
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To: Fido969

Are we willing to pay that price to rescue our nation from
tyranny?


9 posted on 04/04/2012 7:27:34 AM PDT by WestwardHo
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To: laweeks

Wow. That is a sobering statistic.

Start thinking along these lines and you’ll really get a lump in your throat. The current death toll from abortion:

53 million.


10 posted on 04/04/2012 7:39:14 AM PDT by Claud
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To: SkyDancer

Battle for Atlanta 150th anniversary is in 2014 and
Gettysberg 150th is next year 2013
Just got back from shiloh 150th reeanctment.


11 posted on 04/04/2012 7:39:25 AM PDT by mel (There are only 2 races decent and undecent people)
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To: mel

When I get home (I’m working in Australia) I want to visit some of the battle fields. Gettysburg for one but some of the others. And you’re right, I can’t start or end my day without checking in here.


12 posted on 04/04/2012 7:43:49 AM PDT by SkyDancer (Talent Without Ambition Is Sad - Ambition Without Talent Is Worse)
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To: the scotsman

“It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”

Lest we forget. Lest we forget


13 posted on 04/04/2012 7:45:25 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: SkyDancer

There was an estimated 50,000 visitors and 12,000 reenactors
there.


14 posted on 04/04/2012 8:00:52 AM PDT by mel (There are only 2 races decent and undecent people)
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To: laweeks

ARe you so young that you do not remember the multiple times that Pat ran for president???


15 posted on 04/04/2012 8:15:33 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: grumpa

Your history is incorrect.


16 posted on 04/04/2012 8:16:54 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: Nifster
Are you so young that you do not remember the multiple times that Pat ran for president???

Yes, I do remember. But I can dream, can't I? I mean, here we are with a dyed in the wool, 100% liberal democrat about to head our ticket against the monster in the White House.

For whom do we vote: Obambi or Obambi-lite. Another Dole-Bush-McLame choice foisted on the conservatives.

We all know that even if Romnesty got into the White House, he'll cave on homosexual activity, abortions, mandated health care, and high taxes. He's a dishrag . . . and we're stuck with him. Yee GODS!

17 posted on 04/04/2012 8:21:49 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: the scotsman

Why is it that very few histories of the Civil War state the degree to which the European oligarchs aided the South, both in the years leading up to and during war, with money, war material, diplomacy and espionage? The installation of Maximillian in Mexico by the French was designed to open a southern flank against the western US and Canada as a British asset was a base for spy networks and agitation of the Indians in the US frontier regions. America’s enemies list needs to include this neo-aristocracy element that continues to operate as a global financial oligarchy today.


18 posted on 04/04/2012 8:22:09 AM PDT by Yollopoliuhqui
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To: the scotsman

All because the Democrats decided to push slavery west. Sound familiar?


19 posted on 04/04/2012 8:24:48 AM PDT by ricmc2175
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To: laweeks

And which house and senate candidates are you actively supporting??? I will take Romney and a conservative Congress any day. It is up to us to hold our elected officials feet to the fire


20 posted on 04/04/2012 8:29:01 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: Fido969

And today we are told that restitution is owed for slavery. That debt has been paid.


21 posted on 04/04/2012 8:29:41 AM PDT by The Free Engineer
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To: laweeks

“slave-holding South”

The North held slaves, too, contrary to public school teachings. In fact, several northern States had recently strengthened their slave laws in their constitutions and even Lincoln advocated laws to keep free slaves out of Illinois.


22 posted on 04/04/2012 8:39:47 AM PDT by CodeToad (I'm so right-wing if I lifted my left leg I'd go into a spin.)
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To: Nifster
I will take Romney and a conservative Congress any day. It is up to us to hold our elected officials feet to the fire

And which Congress are you talking about?

. . . The one where we beat the hell out of the libtards and RINOs last fall?
. . . the one where ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAS HAPPENED TO STOP THIS CRAP
. . . the one headed by Boner?
. . . the one that was going to stop funding Planned Predators?
. . . the one that was going to DEFUND Obamacare?
. . . is it the one that was going to reign in spending?
. . . is it that one? . .

23 posted on 04/04/2012 8:39:47 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“As William Faulkner said, “The past isn’t dead; it isn’t even past.””

So very true. We in the ‘future’ must deal with the acts of the past.


24 posted on 04/04/2012 8:41:07 AM PDT by CodeToad (I'm so right-wing if I lifted my left leg I'd go into a spin.)
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To: grumpa

“Every other civilized country got rid of slavery without such bloodshed.”

That assuming the Civil War was all about slavery, which it wasn’t. It was much more about the North and South beating up on each other in Congress and the South deciding it would be better off on its own.


25 posted on 04/04/2012 8:43:01 AM PDT by CodeToad (I'm so right-wing if I lifted my left leg I'd go into a spin.)
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To: laweeks

This is why in every race we need to focus on getting OCNSERVATIVES elected... WE need to keep their feet to the fire. Rolling over and saying oh well it is all the same means we are abdicating OUR responsibility


26 posted on 04/04/2012 8:44:37 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: SkyDancer
I've only visited eastern theatre battle fields. Having said that the best preserved battelfield is Antietam.

Some locals claim the place is haunted...

27 posted on 04/04/2012 8:49:17 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Nifster

Nowadays, it’s “Government to the people, at the people, and on the people.”


28 posted on 04/04/2012 8:57:55 AM PDT by Erasmus (BHO: New supreme leader of the homey rollin' empire.)
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To: Yollopoliuhqui
Ah, a LaRouchite leftover comments.
29 posted on 04/04/2012 8:58:52 AM PDT by robowombat
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To: Erasmus

the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.....


30 posted on 04/04/2012 9:08:59 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: the scotsman
Note the dismissive contemptuous comments from Marxist propagandist posing as an academician Eric Foner;

In any case, Columbia University historian Eric Foner questions the values of focusing on the death toll of such a horrific period in US history.

“A numbers game gets us only so far in understanding the war’s impact on American life,” he says.

“There is an ongoing debate about the number of slaves brought from Africa to the New World during the slave trade era - nine million, 12 million, 14 million. Does it really matter when we are assessing the morality of the slave trade?”

The function of this is to dismiss the numbers of mostly white men who died in this conflict compared to the ‘irredeemable original sin’ of slave holding. These termites are busy at work destroying as much of our collective memory as possible. Calling the casualty estimate ‘a numbers game’ means it is an unimportant detail whether 600,000 or 750,000 or a million white men died
compared to the ‘sin of slavery’. Now pay close attention. Here is the real message from Mr. Foner and the rest of the cultural marxists. The United States and the colonial society it preceded from is a basically evil and corrupt enterprise founded upon racism, classism, sexism, homophobia and genocidism. The deaths of white men or Americans in general in its wars are unimportant as these conflicts were either fought for or caused by the basic evil nature of our social order. History is merely a tool to unmask these sins and discredit the United States so that the process of destruction of our social and economic order can be advanced so that a new ‘socialist’ synthesis can replace and eliminate the inherently racist capitalist order. That is what this feculent little remark means. Foner and all his ilk are the enemies of all true Americans.

31 posted on 04/04/2012 9:15:18 AM PDT by robowombat
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To: the scotsman
Union General Schofield, who may have been the most intellectual of all the Federal high command, wrote after the war that the real toll was probably nearer to a million counting the thousands who both died after returning home of disease or wounds and those whose lives were dramatically shortened by effects of wounds or disease, as well as significant undercounting of casualties during the war. An example of the first sort would be Private B. W. Mitchell of the 27th Indiana, the man who found Lee's ‘Lost Order’ at Frederick on 13 Sep 1862. Private Mitchell was severely wounded at Antietam/Sharpsburg on 17 Sept and was discharged after spending eight months in hospital partially recovering from his wounds. Mitchell was never able to work in any real fashion again and died in 1866 at his home in Bartholomew, Indiana. Mitchell's family became charity cases (he had several young children) as a result. The details of this one case can be easily found in ‘Battles and Leaders’ Vol. II, pg. 603. Who can doubt that there were tens of thousands of cases such as Private Mitchell's on both sides.

I have noted gravestones of men described as CSA that show many dates of death in 1866 to 1869. Many of these men likely had their lives shortened directly due to wounds and disease incurred in service. Furthermore Confederate records, especially here in the west, are very spotty. Virtually all of the Alabama state service records are missing as they were burnt with much of the state archives by Auger's people in April 1865. Militia records are also very spotty and in states such as Mississippi the militia was regularly embodied to support combat operations such as dealing with the many federal raids launched from west Tennessee and Louisiana. In the Atlanta campaign the Georgia militia was fully mobilized and many were used in combat operations. All of this goes to say even a century and a half after the fact the the US has yet to come to terms with how really large and destructive the WBTS/CW was. This is especially true for the South where the impact was incalculable. I note this article appears in a British not American publication. Perhaps there is a reason for that. I leave that to your speculation. I do call your attention to the belittling remarks of Marxist PC propagandist disguised as an academician Eric Foner.

32 posted on 04/04/2012 9:17:20 AM PDT by robowombat
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To: the scotsman

***The US Civil War was incontrovertibly the bloodiest, most devastating conflict in American history,***

Next time someone demands reparations for their ancestors being in slavery remind them that reparations were paid for in blood.


33 posted on 04/04/2012 9:19:01 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: SkyDancer
The war covered an area equivalent of the distance from Oslo, Norway to Athens, Greece. Greece being the same size as Arkansas or Alabama. On the same note, you can almost fit two and a half Europe’s in the US.

The easternmost land battle was probably Williamsburg, Va., and the westenmost was Picacho Peak, about 40 miles west of Tuscon, Ariz. The westernmost contact was apparently at Stanwix Station, on the Gila River near present-day Dateland, Ariz. These all took place in 1862. The distance between Williamsburg and Tucson is about 2300 miles.

34 posted on 04/04/2012 10:51:37 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: the scotsman

We got 300,000
Before they conquered us.
They died of Southern fever
And Southern steel and shot.
And I wish it was three million
Instead of what we got.

—Maj. James I. Randolph, CSA, 1914


35 posted on 04/04/2012 10:56:08 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: nnn0jeh; TR Jeffersonian

ping


36 posted on 04/04/2012 11:06:25 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Fido969

If the South had not seceded, slavery probably would have continued for at least several more decades...so the Southern soldiers also contributed to the end of slavery, even if unwittingly. If the North had conquered the South quickly, Lincoln would not have issued the Emancipation Proclamation.


37 posted on 04/04/2012 11:55:42 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: laweeks

“Truly it is written, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Every drop of blood drawn by the lash shall be requited by one drawn by the sword.” - A. Lincoln


38 posted on 04/04/2012 12:25:54 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Keith Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)
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To: laweeks

I cannot help but agree that the Civil War was most unnecessary. Hot heads on both sides fired the cannons before anyone thought through the consequences. Very few people, on either side, would have supported the War if they had foreseen the consequences. Slavery would have ended in the South within a generation, most likely. Was the cost in blood and treasure worth a generation of freedom? Would the status of the freedman have been ameliorated if the southern states had relinquished slavery of their own volition?


39 posted on 04/04/2012 12:32:20 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Keith Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)
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To: Fiji Hill
THE CONQUERED BANNER
by Fr. Abram Joseph Ryan, Chaplain, CSA
(1838-1886)

Furl that Banner, for 'tis weary;
Round its staff 'tis drooping dreary;
Furl it, fold it, it is best;
For there's not a man to wave it,
And there's not a sword to save it,
And there's no one left to lave it
In the blood that heroes gave it;
And its foes now scorn and brave it;
Furl it, hide it--let it rest!

"The chasm is closed"
In memory of the restored Union this tablet is dedicated by
Union veterans of the Civil War and patriotic citizens of Martha's Vineyard
in honor of the Confederate soldiers


40 posted on 04/04/2012 12:42:58 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Keith Olbermann: Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them.)
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To: Fiji Hill

The other thing I found out about Texas is that from eastern border to western border is the same distance as from NYC to Chicago. Also, France is almost the same size as Texas.


41 posted on 04/04/2012 3:52:47 PM PDT by SkyDancer (Talent Without Ambition Is Sad - Ambition Without Talent Is Worse)
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To: SkyDancer
The other thing I found out about Texas is that from eastern border to western border is the same distance as from NYC to Chicago. Also, France is almost the same size as Texas.

If you drive from Houston to Los Angeles, you will be driving through Texas for about half of the distance.

42 posted on 04/04/2012 4:06:28 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: Fiji Hill
If you drive from Houston to Los Angeles, you will be driving through Texas for about half of the distance.

Texas is the only state in which you'll see a milepost on the interstate go to three digits, starting with "8".

43 posted on 04/04/2012 4:14:44 PM PDT by okie01
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks the scotsman. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


44 posted on 04/15/2012 7:04:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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