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Soldier fired for Obama critique
iafrica ^ | 4-6-12 | staff

Posted on 04/06/2012 9:26:41 AM PDT by Mozilla

A US Marine faces possible dismissal after posting critical remarks on Facebook about US President Barack Obama, with a review board recommending a less than honorable discharge.

Sergeant Gary Stein (26) a nine-year veteran, posted comments on Facebook and other websites calling Obama a coward and "the economic and religious enemy," a Marine Corps board was told during an all-day hearing on Thursday.

Stein had urged Obama's defeat in the November election, writing "screw Obama" in one posting, and had founded a website called Armed Forces Tea Party, apparently in support of the ultra-conservative Tea Party movement.

On one site he sold bumper stickers reading "NOBAMA 2012."

The three-member board meeting at Camp Pendleton, a military base in southern California, announced its decision on Thursday. The final decision will be made by a commanding general.

Stein had no comment after the decision, but Mark Brewer, one of his civilian lawyers, said: "We're disappointed but we're going to keep fighting for this Marine."

During the hearing, Marine lawyers argued that Stein be booted over the remarks about Obama, who is the commander and chief of US armed forces.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.iafrica.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cicobama; marine; obama; solider; usmc
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Bad news for freedom of speech and the armed forces. Trouble is coming.
1 posted on 04/06/2012 9:26:47 AM PDT by Mozilla
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To: Mozilla
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Article 88, USMJ

2 posted on 04/06/2012 9:29:50 AM PDT by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: Mozilla

First off, he’s not a soldier. He’s a Marine.

Enlisted military members aren’t fired, they’re discharged.

I enlisted in 1977, and even that farther back than that the policy was “thou shalt not speak ill of the commander in chief”.

It’s nothing new. He knew what the rules were, he broke them. What is new is that instead of grousing amongst ourselves (I served during Clinton...) we now have social media as a means of voicing our displeasure. He crossed the line.

Not making a right/wrong judgement here, it just is what it is.


3 posted on 04/06/2012 9:30:57 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface)
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To: Mozilla
I nominate the Sergeant for the Congressional Medal Of Honor.
4 posted on 04/06/2012 9:31:29 AM PDT by immadashell
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To: Mozilla

You don’t have ‘rights’ in the military. Everyone knows that who has served.


5 posted on 04/06/2012 9:33:31 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: SandyInSeattle

Nevertheless, everything he said was true.


6 posted on 04/06/2012 9:34:10 AM PDT by Hoosier-Daddy ( "It does no good to be a super power if you have to worry what the neighbors think." BuffaloJack)
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To: Mozilla
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!


7 posted on 04/06/2012 9:34:19 AM PDT by NRA1995 (I'll cling to my religion and guns till they're pried from my cold dead fingers!)
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To: SandyInSeattle

As a Marine, does he not have the obligation to protect the Constitution, even perhaps against attacks on it by the C-i-C?


8 posted on 04/06/2012 9:36:03 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (The emperor has no pedigree.)
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To: SandyInSeattle

“Not making a right/wrong judgement here, it just is what it is.”

I agree.

I was in from 77-81. They made it abundantly clear that while the USA was a democracy, the military was not. It was also made very clear, if you didn’t like those above you in rank, that would include the president, keep your pie hole shut about it.

The guy messed up, he’s going to pay.


9 posted on 04/06/2012 9:37:50 AM PDT by brownsfan (Aldous Huxley and Mike Judge were right.)
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To: SandyInSeattle

I agree with you Sandy. I’m not a military man myself, but Article 88 pretty clearly enumerates this as being verboten.

My question to you is this: can a CO or even the President issue a pardon or modify the soldier’s discharge papers to show an honorable discharge?

Seems like something that a right-minded president might do. Obama, being a narcissist, likely wants this kid to be his Vince Foster.


10 posted on 04/06/2012 9:38:42 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Mozilla

Yes, we are losing our freedoms but a member of the military should know better than to criticize the president on Facebook. This said: I detest the bastard in our Whitehouse.


11 posted on 04/06/2012 9:41:25 AM PDT by Jukeman (God help us for we are deep in trouble.)
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To: Hodar
"Any commissioned officer..."

Sergeant Stein is a noncommissioned officer. A court-martial would not apply.
12 posted on 04/06/2012 9:41:54 AM PDT by FortWorthPatriot (Obama is no Hitler; Hitler got the Olympics)
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To: Hegemony Cricket

The oath is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic... and to obey the orders of the President of the United States. (Interestingly, the officers’ oath does not include the line about obeying the orders of the President.)

If an illegal order had been issued and he refused to follow it, we would be having a different discussion. Badmouthing the commander in chief, especially after having been warned about it before, is prejudicial to good order and discipline and is a violation of the UCMJ.


13 posted on 04/06/2012 9:43:23 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface)
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To: Hodar

Yes. He’s out.


14 posted on 04/06/2012 9:43:30 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Jukeman

I’ve yet to hear of anyone getting hired for something they posted on Facebook, but I’ve heard of quite a few getting fired because of it.


15 posted on 04/06/2012 9:45:17 AM PDT by VA_Gentleman ("Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very internet you invented." -Jon Stewart)
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To: rarestia

The recommendation of the admin discharge board is just that, a recommendation. The final decision rests with the Commanding General at MCRD, who could accept their recommendation or allow him to stay until his EAS in July. If he stays, it would allow him an honorable discharge with benefits.

My guess is he’ll go. He was warned, and didn’t heed the warning.


16 posted on 04/06/2012 9:46:56 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface)
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To: VA_Gentleman

To the point.


17 posted on 04/06/2012 9:47:48 AM PDT by Jukeman (God help us for we are deep in trouble.)
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To: Mozilla
The troubling thing is the OTH discharge

"review board recommending a less than honorable discharge" That is just crap. How about an Administrative DC.

An Admin sep under honorable conditions seems better suited for this.

Heck, that AF General who called Clinton a "Draft dodging, dope smoking, womanizer... got to retire.

18 posted on 04/06/2012 9:48:03 AM PDT by SERE_DOC ( “The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” TJ.)
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To: Hoosier-Daddy
Nevertheless, everything he said was true.

And he should have saved it for happy hour out in town with like-minded buddies. Not on social media for all to see.

19 posted on 04/06/2012 9:48:13 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface)
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To: Jukeman

Yes you are right. He shouldn’t be openly attacking the superior if he wants to stick around. There are rules to be obeys in the all the armed forces.


20 posted on 04/06/2012 9:48:23 AM PDT by Mozilla (Rush: Romney is winning like a liberal...that is cause he is a liberal)
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To: SandyInSeattle

You are 100% correct.

Marines are NOT soldiers.

And this man knew the rules. The military is not a college campus of peace, love and “free” speech.


21 posted on 04/06/2012 9:48:45 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s....you weren't really there)
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To: rarestia
Article 88 is irrelevant to his case since he was only a Sergeant, not a commissioned officer. Still, there's a good order and discipline issue, and he was warned repeatedly. And this:

The Marine Corps has said it decided to take administrative action after Stein declared on Facebook that he would not follow orders from Obama and later clarified that statement saying he would not follow unlawful orders.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/04/05/20120405california-marine-critical-obama-argues-free-speech.html#ixzz1rHNf9woa

You just can't have sergeants saying that in such a public place while openly affiliating themselves with the military. We wouldn't support it if it was some lefty punk saying it about a GOP President, and we shouldn't support this either.

22 posted on 04/06/2012 9:50:15 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: Mozilla

How is this any different than standing in the town square and announcing the same things?


23 posted on 04/06/2012 9:50:15 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (The Democrat Ku Klux Klan is alive and well as the New Black Panthers, CBC and the NAACP)
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To: SERE_DOC

Well there is hypocrisy. As always is the case. You can attack the right but not the left. Lame.


24 posted on 04/06/2012 9:50:52 AM PDT by Mozilla (Rush: Romney is winning like a liberal...that is cause he is a liberal)
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To: FortWorthPatriot

Then there is Article 134 - it’s a general catch-all.

You DO NOT do anything that can discredit the military, this includes saying anything about the Commander In Chief. It’s not a secret, it’s pretty much as well known as the Chow Hall, the Head and the bunk in which you are assigned.


25 posted on 04/06/2012 9:51:15 AM PDT by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin; SandyInSeattle

Thank you both for the information.


26 posted on 04/06/2012 9:52:25 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Mozilla

I despise Obama, but rules are rules. And the reasons for those rules are sound; namely, you don’t want your military to become involved in politics. Plenty of banana republics attest to that. So you cut off anyone at the knees who is in uniform and takes even a tentative first step in that direction by criticizing the CIC.

Now if we could just keep Congress from playing with the military like it was some kind of beach ball.


27 posted on 04/06/2012 9:53:29 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Mozilla; Lancey Howard; Ironmajor; P-Marlowe

I have high regard for the presidency and none for Obama.

However, in an earlier article, I read that he possibly was doing his blogging on a government computer and as Sergeant So & So of the Marines.

Had he done this on his own time, his own computer, and under simply his name without mention of the Marines, then he’d be in the clear.

Regardless who the president is, a member of the military can’t use a government machine for personal activities, and he cannot give the impression he is speaking “as a member” of the Marine Corps.

If true, this Sergeant had made an error in judgment. I don’t think it rose to the level of court-martial. This was clearly a non-judicial issue in my opinion.


28 posted on 04/06/2012 9:55:38 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: FortWorthPatriot

I would really love to know what paragraph of the separations manual they are using for their justification. That would tell us alot.


29 posted on 04/06/2012 10:00:48 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface)
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To: Mozilla
I will agree with Ollie North in that this is entering uncharted waters.

When the military code was written, there was no Face Book or Twitter. These things present a new wrinkle. I think the code needs to be updated and this ruling might be the catalyst.

For my $0.02...I think the Marine would have been okay with his initial criticism as it was in conversation on a forum. I think he did himself no good with his Armed forces Tea Party Face Book page.

30 posted on 04/06/2012 10:01:25 AM PDT by CAluvdubya (I am George! (now all I need is a T-shirt))
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To: xzins
However, in an earlier article, I read that he possibly was doing his blogging on a government computer and as Sergeant So & So of the Marines.

Had he done this on his own time, his own computer, and under simply his name without mention of the Marines, then he’d be in the clear.

Agreed.

31 posted on 04/06/2012 10:01:42 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (The Democrat Ku Klux Klan is alive and well as the New Black Panthers, CBC and the NAACP)
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To: Mozilla

Doing what this guy has done never even crossed anyone’s mind when I served. Then again, my C-in-C was Ronald Reagan.


32 posted on 04/06/2012 10:02:19 AM PDT by mikey_hates_everything
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To: Hodar

This Marine is a Non-Commissioned officer...questions?


33 posted on 04/06/2012 10:02:24 AM PDT by TheGunny
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To: xzins

Chaplain, your response reminds me a lot of what Marine Gen Chesty Puller says—see my excerpt Chesty Puller, Loyalty Down....

Semper Watching!

Gunny G
1952—’72
aka: Dick Gaines
*****


34 posted on 04/06/2012 10:04:04 AM PDT by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: SandyInSeattle
He was warned, and didn’t heed the warning.

I'm curious. Is he in trouble for what he posted or is he in trouble for continuing to post stuff about Obama after he was told by his superiors to knock it off? Two entirely different things.

I'm in the navy and a lot of my FB friends are also in the navy. Fellow sailors post crap about Obama all the time (or, at least, they used to). Personally, I've made it a practice to keep my very infrequent FB postings as mundaine and inoffensive as possible.

35 posted on 04/06/2012 10:04:54 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: Mozilla
Trouble is coming.

No it's not. The UCMJ is unique to the military and when you take the oath "to support and defend the Constitution and to obey the orders of those appointed above me" you give up your right to criticize the command structure. If you can't take this oath "freely with out any mental reservation or purpose of evasion" you have no place being in the military.

36 posted on 04/06/2012 10:06:42 AM PDT by Harley (Will Rogers never met Harry Reid.)
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To: rarestia

You’re welcome!


37 posted on 04/06/2012 10:08:39 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface)
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To: SandyInSeattle
Yeah, the problem with letting him stay and just get out at his EAS is that it means there is no disincentive for anyone else near the near of their EAS from doing the same thing.

Foolish, because he otherwise seems to have been a good Marine.

38 posted on 04/06/2012 10:09:16 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: SandyInSeattle

Good post. 100/100


39 posted on 04/06/2012 10:13:33 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (I'm not willing to light my hair on fire to support Willard. He is what he is.)
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To: TheGunny

Gunny!

Chesty was right, but he didn’t know (at that time) it would come from WITHIN!

Dick Gaines
52-72

Semper Watching!
*****


40 posted on 04/06/2012 10:14:00 AM PDT by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

That’s right. This comes down to professionalism and discretion in my book. I mean, do u think the guys standing at “Marine One” like the guy? Odds are that they loath him...but they are professionals.


41 posted on 04/06/2012 10:14:30 AM PDT by TheGunny
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To: gunnyg

Where is the excerpt, Gunny?


42 posted on 04/06/2012 10:14:48 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: xzins

Shot!
(on the way)


43 posted on 04/06/2012 10:16:34 AM PDT by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: SandyInSeattle

If Commander is smart he will let him stay until July. ACLU is waiting in the wings to attack. They will parse the definition of when a Marine is considered on duty. USMC says your a Marine 24/7. There is a risk a court may not agree. Bust him, restrict him, let him go quietly and let the ACLU twist in the wind.


44 posted on 04/06/2012 10:21:27 AM PDT by OldGoatCPO
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To: Hodar
Think what you want, do what you are told. Mouthing off about the C in C is prejudicial to Good Order and Discipline and has been since the founding of the Republic.
45 posted on 04/06/2012 10:24:54 AM PDT by Little Bill (Sorry)
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To: gunnyg

Got it. Thanks.


46 posted on 04/06/2012 10:27:49 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: Mozilla; xzins
Stein had urged Obama's defeat in the November election, writing "screw Obama" in one posting...

I thought that homosexuality is now permissible in the Marines.

Why would he get kicked out of the Marines if he wanted to screw the CIC?

Are we back to "don't ask, don't tell"?

47 posted on 04/06/2012 10:29:12 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe

LOL!


48 posted on 04/06/2012 10:30:48 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: P-Marlowe

Now that’s funny!


49 posted on 04/06/2012 10:33:31 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface)
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To: TheGunny
Amen. It's the United States Marine Corps, not some politicized band of Third World militia.

Semper Fi.

50 posted on 04/06/2012 10:41:26 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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