Skip to comments.The Talk: Nonblack Version
Posted on 04/07/2012 5:04:29 AM PDT by reaganaut1
There is a talk that nonblack Americans have with their kids, too. My own kids, now 19 and 16, have had it in bits and pieces as subtopics have arisen. If I were to assemble it into a single talk, it would look something like the following.
(1) Among your fellow citizens are forty million who identify as black, and whom I shall refer to as black. The cumbersome (and MLK-noncompliant) term African-American seems to be in decline, thank goodness. Colored and Negro are archaisms. What you must call the N word is used freely among blacks but is taboo to nonblacks.
(2) American blacks are descended from West African populations, with some white and aboriginal-American admixture. The overall average of non-African admixture is 20-25 percent. The admixture distribution is nonlinear, though: It seems that around 10 percent of the African American population is more than half European in ancestry. (Same link.)
(3) Your own ancestry is mixed north-European and northeast-Asian, but blacks will take you to be white.
(4) The default principle in everyday personal encounters is, that as a fellow citizen, with the same rights and obligations as yourself, any individual black is entitled to the same courtesies you would extend to a nonblack citizen. That is basic good manners and good citizenship. In some unusual circumstances, howevere.g., paragraph (10h) belowthis default principle should be overridden by considerations of personal safety.
(5) As with any population of such a size, there is great variation among blacks in every human trait (except, obviously, the trait of identifying oneself as black). They come fat, thin, tall, short, dumb, smart, introverted, extroverted, honest, crooked, athletic, sedentary, fastidious, sloppy, amiable, and obnoxious. There are black geniuses and black morons. There are black saints and black psychopaths.
(Excerpt) Read more at takimag.com ...
“Derbyshire doesn't do the really obvious racist stuff — the stuff that goes up at FreeRepublic.com, for example — like post photos Obama in stereotypical tribal garb with a bone through his nose. Instead, he talks about how his East African parentage means he might be suspect to some black voters, who are more likely to be of West African heritage.”
The Atlantic then provides numerous links to various things Derbyshire has written, going back at least four years, with links, that don't sound very good.
I don't know enough about Derbyshire to have an intelligent comment on his views. However, I believe Jim Robinson and the community of those of us who post on Free Republic need to make **ABSOLUTELY** clear that Free Republic does **NOT** support racism.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Jim, but I think someone posting photos of “Obama in stereotypical tribal garb with a bone through his nose” would get in trouble here, especially if that was part of a pattern of anti-black ranting.
Maybe I've been lucky but I simply haven't run into a lot of the “bad blacks” that some people like to talk about. I've seen some, but not many, and I know from firsthand experience that even in high-crime areas, most residents are basically decent people who have been intimidated into a code of silence. That's coming from someone who, back when I was in college and graduate school, was living in the inner city and was attending a church that was in the process of successfully changing from predominantly white to predominantly black. Once my neighbors and fellow church members got to know me, they decided “he's okay” and I had no more issues.
Yes, I take precautions when in an area where I'm one of the few white people, but I'd do the same in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood, and my Italian ancestors would have done the same in a predominantly Irish neighborhood, and a hundred years ago walking into a neighborhood full of “wops” and “dagos” would have scared the living daylights out of many WASPS.
It's not just blacks and Hispanics who get this treatment. When I walk around in Korea, I have to be careful not to hold my wife's hand, and I always have to wear a suit and tie in public, because otherwise people to look down on her as a “race-mixer” of questionable morality. That's reality; I don't like it, but I have to deal with it — there are lots of cultures where white people are looked down on as immoral wicked people whose goal is to “knock up” innocent Asian women.
Bottom line: if you act like and dress like a gangbanger, you'll get treated like one. Act and dress like a professional, and most (not all but most) people will treat you like a decent human being.
About 2:1 - AFTER correcting for % of population - for special forces. (If Blacks = 14% of population, then = 7% of Special Forces)
About 6:1 - AFTER correcting - for Seals.
long threads about this some time back - concerning swimming ability re Seal data.
But - this is everywhere. Those 15 IQ points on average are hard to overcome.
"For a man who had just learned that he would lose his livelihood, his passion, and his family home, Smith was strangely unflustered. Largely ignored since independence, he seems to have found in the blind bungling of Robert Mugabe's regime a grim redemption for white rule. "You can't imagine how many people come up to me and say, 'We didn't agree with you back then. We thought you were too rigid and inflexible. But now we see you were right. You were so right: they were not fit to govern.'"
This is a rather long article and must be excerpted...go to the link and you will see a frightening similarity to what is happening to our country right now!
Mugabe decided on what he called "fast-track land reform" only in February of 2000, after he got shocking results in a constitutional referendum: though he controlled the media, the schools, the police, and the army, voters rejected a constitution he put forth to increase his power even further. A new movement was afoot in Zimbabwe: the Movement for Democratic Changea coalition of civic groups, labor unions, constitutional reformers, and heretofore marginal opposition parties. Mugabe blamed the whites and their farm workers (who, although they together made up only 15 percent of the electorate, were enough to tip the scales) for the growth of the MDCand for his humiliating rebuff.
MSo he played the race card and the land card. "If white settlers just took the land from us without paying for it," the President declared, "we can, in a similar way, just take it from them without paying for it." In 1896 Africans had suffered huge casualties in an eighteen-month rebellion against British pioneers known as the chimurenga, or "liberation war." The war that brought Zimbabwean blacks self-rule was known as the second chimurenga. In the immediate aftermath of his referendum defeat Mugabe announced a third chimurenga, invoking a valiant history to animate a violent, country-wide land grab. Initially, the farmers held their ground, but it became clear after several white farmers were murdered that they were too few and Mugabe's regime was too determined. Of the 4,000 large-scale commercial farmers in business three years ago, all but 500 have been forced off their land.
I am at a loss for words.
Are you implying that a beer summit is out of the question here?
“Something I thought I would never see in print:
(11) The mean intelligence of blacks is much lower than for whites. The least intelligent ten percent of whites have IQs below 81; forty percent of blacks have IQs that low. Only one black in six is more intelligent than the average white; five whites out of six are more intelligent than the average black. These differences show in every test of general cognitive ability that anyone, of any race or nationality, has yet been able to devise. They are reflected in countless everyday situations. Life is an IQ test.”
Actually there’s a whole book that goes into great details documenting this. “The Bell Curve” - I highly recommend it. (I’m sure that’s how derbyshire came up with that paragraph). It explains the reality we experience every day better than anything else I’ve come across. The authors were demonized and made persona non grata in any social or academic setting. But time is vindicating them.
The critics didn’t so much argue with the data as with the causes. They said that blacks didn’t do as well in IQ tests as whites (or other races) because of historical and cultural reasons. So affirmative action, preferential treatments and integration were instituted to supposedly remedy these historical and cultural disadvantages.
Fifty years of this have made little or no impact, in fact the IQ distribution difference has not changed (it probably has gotten worse due to the lower end of the distribution reproducing faster as a result of programs rewarding mothers that have kids with additional welfare payments.)
The race problem is a huge problem. It has been relatively dormant during the past 50 years mainly because of the appeasement programs mentioned above. We’ve gotten to the point now where it is obvious even to the most rabid apologist, and to the blacks themselves that despite all the preferential treatment and the countless billions spent on “remedying” the differences, in the “test of life” blacks on the average just don’t do as well.
This is a tragedy of incredible proportions, with very nasty consequences (as we’re beginning to see). “The Bell Curve” suggested some solutions that would solve the problem, but politically and ethically they would be next to impossible to implement.
There are tests which dispute the “cultural bias” excuse, because IQ tests have shown that blacks have done better on the parts of the test which might be shown to have “cultural bias” and worse on those parts which measure abstract cognitive ability. So is they would only look at these results, they would see that blacks’ exposure to the culture actually helps them do better on those parts. But they’ll never acknowledge this, as they then would have to also admit that the do worse on the parts which show sheer cognitive ability. Can’t have anything that smacks of the truth no matter how much a whole society must be damaged in order to coddle their feelings of inferiority.
Studies are aslo showing that black males from upper socioeconomic levels still have lower SAT scores, higher drop-out rates, and higher crime rates, even hough raised in upper middle class to wealthy families, with both parents having degrees. The negative indicators for the black kids from these well-off families are higher than those from poorer white families, in that the poorer white kids commit less crime, drop out less, have higher SAT scores, etc,
The black kids also do worse than their parents in testing-”regression to the mean”. Google it, it’s explains a lot, especially as concerns “white flight” from neighborhoods.
ping for later
One problem with the critics' assumption is that the average SAT scores for blacks whose parents were in the $80-$100K income range was LOWER that that for white kids at the "<10K" poverty level (see this article, Table 2: 1996 Mean SAT Scores by Race and Family Income.
In other words, high income black kids, presumably enrolled in excellent middle-class schools and having all the advantages of good nutrition, access to books, growing up in an integrated environment where they hung out with fellow middle-class white kids and away from gangs and drugs, etc, STILL scored lower, and dramatically lower than kids of their own socioeconomic class.
Meanwhile, the children of Vietnamese boat people wo arrived here with nothing, grew up to be valedictorians.
See my post #112 for the link to the actual data.
Critics claim that SAT and IQ scores are highly correlated with parental income, and thus reflect socioeconomic bias. My response is that the critics have it backwards, and that the parents' income is to a large extent attributable to their IQ, and that "correcting" for parental income actually corrects for the genetic component of IQ.
There are those that say that the creators of great fortunes did not necessarily have extreme IQs, and they are correct that, for ultra high incomes, other factors come into play. But within the income range of $20K to $200K, IQ plus the willingness to study and learn (factors that are reflected in the SAT) are highly correlated with economic success.
Or rather it showed into the faces of his acquaintances that they caused their own failures by being unwilling to work and study as hard as your friend. For many blacks, the only path to stable success involves cutting all connections to "da hood", and the losers who would bring them down.
“showed into the faces” should have been “shoved into the faces”
Nah, You have a lot of minority leadership these days. The leadership ranks mirrors the population.
I meant “sharp end” as in actual frontline combat troops, the ones who “shoot and get shot at”. I know there is an over-representation of minorities in officer and non-com positions, if “fair representation” were to be based on percentage of population or even general troop levels. I’ve noticed that “fair representation” is never based on that. It seems to mean rather “50% or more”.
Thank you for the link, off to read more.
I’ve also read summaries of studies which showed that blacks actually scored higher on the parts of IQ tests which could be said to have more “cultural bias” than on the parts which measured pure cognitive ability. So that “cultural bias” actually helps their scores.
Whites need the Courage to FIGHT BACK.
Patrick Buchanans Suicide of a Superpower come the FBIs crime figures for 2007: Blacks committed 433,934 violent crimes against whites, eight times as many as the 55,685 that whites committed against blacks. Interracial rape is almost exclusively black-on-white, with 14,000 assaults on white women by African-American males in 2007. Not one case of white sexual assault on a black female was found in the FBI study. (Page 243)
Thats around 1200 attacks on whites EVERY DAY. 50 an hour. ONE ATTACK EVERY 72 SECONDS.
If Canadians were attacking Americans 1000 times a day, there would a a war going on. Fight back or be defeated.
the children of Vietnamese boat people wo arrived here with nothing, grew up to be valedictorians.
"Lowry, Ponnoru and Goldberg, all good little Progressive Narrative lickspittles, published the required denunciations within hours."
Fixed it for ya.
May the names of Raoul Wallenberg, John Rabe, Chiune Sugihara and Yukiko Sugihara never be forgotten.
Can't figure out why Rich Lowry didn't "man up" for the Progressives and do an NBC on Derbyshire.
You know, string together a bunch of heavily-edited quotes from the Derbyshire article that made John look like a 1905 Alabama Grand Kleagle of the KKK....
Thanks for the correction.
Here's my record: two home invasions-- one a robbery when I was out and the other foiled by my screaming when someone came in through the front window, one mugging on the street, one gunpoint mugging in my car when stopped at a cross street, and three robberies from our home by neighborhood kids we were trying to mentor. All black on white.
We finally had to give up on trying to mentor, innocent as they were when little. As soon as they hit 12, forget it. When I went to talk to their mother about the stealing, she said, "What do you want me to do about it?" (Indignance.)
I said, "You're their mother. You can teach them not to steal, that it may lead to a life of crime and imprisonment. I've explained that to them, but it would mean more coming from you."
Her reply: "Do what I do -- put them out of your house."
The original article is here at Taki's magazine, if you can get it to load correctly. It's been a busy, busy site, and yes, it's because of this article..
I don’t know about that. I can only tell from personal observations. In the staging areas I saw mainly whites. I have no idea what fields the troops were in as I was not forward located.
If you check the services demographics it does mirror the US as a whole. There may be a percentage point or two off.
You wrote: “...I don’t know enough about Derbyshire to have an intelligent comment on his views. However, I believe Jim Robinson and the community of those of us who post on Free Republic need to make **ABSOLUTELY** clear that Free Republic does **NOT** support racism. ...”
Per your (and others’ comments) here: http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire#axzz1rSswjxHR
Darrell Todd Maurina 14 hours ago http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/04/why-john-derbyshire-hasnt-been-fired-yet/50803/#comment-490996065
I’m a Freeper and have been a member of Free Republic since 2006.
I have a real problem with what the Atlantic said here: “Derbyshire doesn’t do the really obvious racist stuff — the stuff that goes up at FreeRepublic.com, for example — like post photos Obama in stereotypical tribal garb with a bone through his nose. Instead, he talks about how his East African parentage means he might be suspect to some black voters, who are more likely to be of West African heritage.” The Atlantic provides numerous links to various things Derbyshire has written, going back at least four years, with links, that don’t sound very good.I don’t know enough about Derbyshire to have an intelligent comment on his views. However, I strongly object to the claim that Free Republic supports racism.Maybe I’ve been lucky but I simply haven’t run into a lot of the “bad blacks” that some people like to talk about. I’ve seen some, but not many, and I know from firsthand experience that even in high-crime areas, most residents are basically decent people who have been intimidated into a code of silence. That’s coming from someone who, back when I was in college and graduate school, was living in the inner city and was attending a church that was in the process of successfully changing from predominantly white to predominantly black. Once my neighbors and fellow church members got to know me, they decided “he’s okay” and I had no more issues.Yes, I take precautions when in an area where I’m one of the few white people, but I’d do the same in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood, and my Italian ancestors would have done the same in a predominantly Irish neighborhood, and a hundred years ago walking into a neighborhood full of “wops” and “dagos” would have scared the living daylights out of many WASPS.It’s not just blacks and Hispanics who get this treatment. When I walk around in Korea, I have to be careful not to hold my wife’s hand, and I always have to wear a suit and tie in public, because otherwise people to look down on her as a “race-mixer” of questionable morality. That’s reality; I don’t like it, but I have to deal with it — there are lots of cultures where white people are looked down on as immoral wicked people whose goal is to “knock up” innocent Asian women.Bottom line: if you act like and dress like a gangbanger, you’ll get treated like one. Act and dress like a professional, and most (not all but most) people will treat you like a decent human being.
ellid 2 hours agoin reply to Darrell Todd Maurina
Given the average level of the comment threads on your fine little website, I find this comment about as believable as the 1938 broadcast about Martians landing in New Jersey.
Joel Jacobson 14 hours ago in reply to goat10000 http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/04/why-john-derbyshire-hasnt-been-fired-yet/50803/#comment-490952555
I have never posted at FR. But I have heard of people posting race-realist comments at FR and being banned within an hour.
I remember when the Ant and the Grasshopper (revised) would get ZOTTED weekly for a while there.
Much of it was probably Democrat sockpuppets trying to smear Free Republic during the impeachment wars.
I guess they pretended it "stuck", much like they're pretending that Trayvon was a 13-year-old boy...
Gotta love The Progressive Narrative.
Since I've been here almost from day one, I can definitely vouch for that. bttt
I read all your links to the articles about black parents having “the talk” with their kids. Each reflects a naive idealism, that life should be fair and if there are misunderstandings, their kids are the victims of ill-intentioned whites.
It may surprise, but as a white family, we have had “a talk” with our son. It enumerated many of the new dangers in this world, and our hopes that he would behave discreetly so as to avoid being arrested, having his education or emotional life wrecked by unmarried sex or an unwanted pregnancy, or ruining his credit and personal reputation. It’s something every good parent should do; it’s not Mayberry anymore, and his white skin or expensive education may not protect him if he messes up.
Having raised him in the city with plenty of diverse neighbors of every walk of life, his own observations and having been mugged when he was 12 by black kids, he has developed his own cautions in the streets — yet we were proud to note that his group of friends has always included people of many races and backgrounds.
Raising kids well is hard work. Those who are unmotivated will always be looking for someone else to blame. My own experience as the “first woman” in corporate management, and in this, that and the other thing in the 60s and 70s, has taught me that the pecking order exists even among white men of privilege. No matter how much things hurt in business or social life, they may not be intended as personal.
There is no free lunch. If someone is picking on you or putting you down, no matter how unfair, it’s a sign that you need to bring your game — or else find a different game better suited to your skill level. I have experienced many gender- and now age-related incidents of discrimination by other whites. It doesn’t make me hate men, other whites or anyone at all. Something more blacks need to realize — it’s not always about skin color. It’s just the usual pecking order. One of the most wasteful emotions in life is self-pity.
All I know is that I am sick and tired of education being so poor because family life is so poor. There are two kinds of families - decent and indecent. The decent families (defined by the results) will have good family lives that will teach their children how to be decent people and decent citizens. My immediate family is decent. My niece is a breeze in terms of parenting. My nephew is the complete opposite. My poor sister and BIL have to constantly parent him. Even I have to parent him as an Aunt to reinforce our family values. He has turned the corner and is becoming a very productive citizen. We are proud.
I do know for a fact that; (1) the only way one can educate ones self is to absorb the knowledge that is in that book in front of one. That means hours and hours of homework. All the money in the world spent by governments cannot make up for the lack of hard work. Period. (2) I know for a fact that if my nephew were ever suspended from high school he would NOT be talking to his girlfriend for 6.5 hours a day. He would not be wandering the streets at all hours of the day searching for Skittles and Ice Tea. His butt would be in a sling. He would be pulling out all the weeds (however small) in his parent's yard and all the neighbors’ yards between the hours of 10-5 pm. He lives in Florida so it would be torture. (It's warm outside and weeds grow right in front of your eyes 24/7. It's freaking never ending!!!!!)
That in my mind that is the difference between a decent family and an indecent family. Period end of story.
That does not mean a person should be shot dead. It is always a tragedy to lose a child. Always. It is always a tragedy to have shot and killed someone. The tragic events become even more tragic when exploited by the President of the United States and HIS ADMINISTRATION, Al Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson and Spike Lee. Nothing good will come of this exploited tragedy.
What a great cartoon. I love it!
BTW, I’m fighting for Free Gas instead of Free Condoms. What say you? ; )
I just found one source which says that app 80% of all combat troops are white male. I’m looking for a few more before I post a link.
“Bottom line: if you act like and dress like a gangbanger, you’ll get treated like one. Act and dress like a professional, and most (not all but most) people will treat you like a decent human being.”
A very interesting post. Thank you.
In the summer of 1980 my sister and I spent it traveling through Europe and Morocco. My sister broke her arm in Morocco. On the way back to the States I changed my garb from hiking boots and blue jeans to high heels and a lovely dress. My hair was still a mess but I still looked well, “civilized”. My sister decided to stay in her jeans and hiking boots. Her hair was dreadful. Going through security the Dutch Marines (Europe was on Terrorist Watch because of the Iranian thing and the Bader Meinhof/Red October stuff going on at the time) treated me like a lady. My poor sister was thrown against the wall and searched. Her arm hurt more than usual for the next few hours after that incident.
Blacks seem to prefer the support MOS's, jobs where they can get skills transferable to civilian life when they're done with military life. If you look at Special Forces, SEALs, etc, it's mainly white and Hispanic.
Another measure is the relative number of casualties. Blacks made up about 13% of the Army, yet accounted for just 8% of casualties in Afghanistan
Ask any journalist who spent a substantial amount of time in a Soviet Bloc country.
It really depends on the units. Some units have a higher percentage of blacks or women, etc.
The job you get depends on your qualification test scores and the needs of the Army. If you had really high scores the recruiter would steer you away from admin jobs.
Blacks do try out for special forces, etc but a lot don't make it.
I pulled these stats off the Army site.
I can’t copy and paste so I’ll just type them out. This is FY2011
Total Force Army
Maneuver Fire & Effects
The Army mirrors the US population as far as age and having a HS diploma.
US 18-24 old with HS diploma Army Enlisted w HSD
White 57% 62%
Black 18% 20%
good tag! for me
I believe the question related to the point of the spear - not the office workers in Alabama.
The closer you get to the point - the whiter it gets.
Why don’t you do some homework and find out.
The more honestly selective the group gets - the harder to overcome that 15 IQ points. Those 15 points - are crushing.
There are - possibly - some other demographics involved. An enlisted guy smart enough to be a SEAL - for instance - if Black - is college scholarship material. Affirmative Action sends him to college. And not watchamcallit State either. Blacks goto Duke with 1250 M+V. 1050 is a good score for Blacks. 50%ile for whites.
Every family has stories; so has mine. Not a lot of bluebirds fluttering around singing about happiness and bonhomie when it comes to the subject of race.
Lincoln, when he died, had Gen. Dan Sickles (of Gettysburg fame) down in Panama and New Granada (Colombia) working on a project to take about 2,000,000 ex-slaves down to Panama to dig a canal. This was generations before yellowjack was beaten, even before the French tried. Can you imagine what the outcome of that would have been?
He was long a student of the colonization movement and never gave up his idea that it would be likely impossible, post-emancipation, for the two races to live in amity.
Gen. Ben Butler took an interview with Lincoln just a few days before the assassination; part of his brief was a progress report on Sickles's work. After the assassination, everyone forgot all about Sickles, and he was still down there six weeks later when he was informed about the President's death by an Indian runner.
Sickles's files, by the way -- the American ones -- have been gone through and his daybooks and message traffic pared and removed. Most of his file material has been systematically destroyed.
I have something of a problem with the fairness, or rather the informational goodness, of point 11). IQ is to some extent, perhaps a great extent, influenced by nurture and teaching. I read a lot as a kid, thanks to Canadian Maritime winters, so my reading and IQ (as tested) prospered apace. So would anyone's who read a lot, as opposed to a kid (regardless of ethnos) who played videogames nonstop, or who was brought up like wolves in a dysfunctional family that was uneducated and illiterate.
So the IQ tests don't just test native intelligence but something rather different, and culturally loaded.
Is that unfair? Yeah, it probably is. But I learned long ago that I will be treated one way wearing a suit and tie and a very different way wearing a T-shirt and jeans.
That goes double for minority groups, including me as a white guy when I'm traveling in foreign countries.
As a person whose two nieces live with us (not for any problems in their family, but rather to give them an American education) I want to comment you for being involved as an aunt in your relatives’ education and upbringing. It can be important to have extended family backing up the values of parents.