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To: NVDave

I wouldn’t argue about a trend. But I find the Bear analogy useful, for another reason. A Bear is a known predator. That would be equivalent to arguing that you would avoid going down a block that is marked with gang symbols, something I would completely agree with.

The problem is that blacks, as a race, are not predators. And we would like to ostracize those that are, and encourage those that are not, and in general push society toward a tolerance and peaceableness that would make all of our lives better.

Stereotypes that suggest the “standard practice” should be to avoid a race because of the actions of a few do not help bring society to where we all want it to be. It instead reinforces the bad behavior we want to discourage. It is similar to accepting 8+% unemployment as the “new normal”. I don’t want to accept that random street riots are normal.

I don’t believe there is something inherent in a particular race that causes them to join packs and brutally attack other races without cause or provocation. I want to believe this is an aberration, caused by environment, specifically the racist environment of the liberals who encourage black 2nd-classness and send the message that we cannot expect better of minorities.

I was watching a Quantum Leap last night, about the south in the 60s. The young up-and-coming black was going to be lynched, and Sam Beckett tried to stop it by encouraging the blacks to just not go protest for their rights, because the KKK was waiting for them and would hang people.

The blacks agreed — but that was giving in to the fear and status quo; in fact, the blacks had to stand up for their rights, and that did lead to them being killed, but also to an advancement in race relations that was thwarted by liberals but was a good start.

What if thousands of whites walked through that DC neighborhood? A few might be killed, but if more were killed, people would take notice, and it would upset people, the police would have to act, and in time the streets would be safe for whites. I hate the idea that we have given up our freedom for security.


312 posted on 04/09/2012 2:33:13 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Stereotypes that suggest the “standard practice” should be to avoid a race because of the actions of a few do not help bring society to where we all want it to be. It instead reinforces the bad behavior we want to discourage. It is similar to accepting 8+% unemployment as the “new normal”. I don’t want to accept that random street riots are normal.
That is a good point; however, simply acting as if unpleasant facts do not exist may or may not be the solution, depending on context. When you are dealing with an individual, your knowledge of statistical differences between (possibly racial) groups is not very helpful, since you never know on which part of the bell curve a given individual is located. And even if you do, you still don’t know his place on the bell curve of any other variable. An individuum cannot be characterized by any single variable, after all, whether they correlate or not.

However, when you are dealing with groups that are large enough, there may be some reason to believe that the law of large numbers is about to set in, and you may get somewhat accurate estimates of the properties of the group by applying your statistical knowledge about such groups. You might still get wrong results, of course. By mere chance, for example, especially if the group is still rather small. Or if the group is not a sufficiently random selection. But should you still throw away all your statistical knowledge and pretend ignorance, just because you do not like the idea of interacting with people differently just because of simple traits like the color of their skin? What if your statistical information predicts that the group of people surrounding you is going to be dangerous?

I don’t believe there is something inherent in a particular race that causes them to join packs and brutally attack other races without cause or provocation. I want to believe this is an aberration, caused by environment, specifically the racist environment of the liberals who encourage black 2nd-classness and send the message that we cannot expect better of minorities.
I don’t think Derb claims otherwise. Group differences may be inheritable or not, and if they are inheritable, they are usually only inheritable to some degree or other. But if group differences are currently there, they are there—no matter what caused them, or whether they are inheritable or not. If you act accordingly, you are doing so based on the state of the world in which it currently happens to be. So, if you get lost and find yourself in a purely black neighborhood, you may choose to ignore your knowledge that statistically, such neighborhoods tend to be more dangerous than others. Now, look around; what if everybody around you is also a young male, wearing a hoodie? Would you now begin to raise your level of concern? What if they are having gold teeth? They are wearing baggy pants? Ghetto blasters are spouting gangsta rap? And every other happens to be packing an Uzi? If you now begin to feel a little uneasy, you are still acting on statistical knowledge about certain groups of people, in a possibly unfair way! So, whistle Don’t Worry be Happy and stroll on? :-)
315 posted on 04/09/2012 3:55:27 PM PDT by cartan
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To: CharlesWayneCT

1. Blacks, *as a race*, are not predators. Men like Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Allen West, Bill Cosby, et al, certainly aren’t predators, never have been, never will be. Their skin color is no indication of a violent nature whatsoever.

2. Urban American Blacks, as a large statistical cohort, produce, support, shelter and defend feral young black urban males, many of whom *are* predators. Known predators.

Want to argue the point? Then go walking through known urban black gang territory.

Now, while there’s an obvious mathematical and logical distinction here, it is lost on the non-black, and especially non-urban-black population of the US. What do they see on/in the news? Case after case of young black urban males engaged in Clockwork Orange levels of violence, and in majority against their own people. And in case after case, the black community tolerates it. They might not *like* it, but they tolerate it, because they resist real efforts to change it, starting with resisting efforts to come down like a hammer upon those who commit capital crimes.

When we see situations where a black male has attempted to perpetrate violence against someone outside their racial cohort, and they’ve been killed by their intended victim(s), we see all manner of wailing about how “he didn’t deserve that,” as we’re seeing here. We can see it about every two weeks somewhere around the country now.

What do I mean when I say “Clockwork Orange” levels of violence? Here’s an example of Clockwork Orange violence:

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/31/2-dead-12-hurt-in-mass-shooting-in-north-miami/

Shooting a five year old girl? WTF?

OK, so that’s black-on-black Clockwork stuff. Let’s seriously up the volume a tad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

NB that the four judged guilty of those murders will get new trials, thanks to the judge in their cases being disbarred.

You might want to believe that these events are an aberration, and 40 years ago, you might have been correct in that assumption. But, starting the in late 80’s, the level of violence in urban black neighborhoods ramped up rather dramatically. In the last 10 years, and especially in the last four, it appears that a situation that previously appeared as bad as it could get has gotten worse, as black urban females start engaging in senseless violence as well:

http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2011/12/9_arrests_in_staten_island_inc.html

Now, there is a cultural bias against dealing with this behavior within the urban black community. Look at what blacks call other blacks who are conservatives (and almost invariably successful as well). It isn’t pretty. The “keepin’ it real” and “Stop Snitching!” ideals of the urban black culture aren’t doing anyone any favors, yet that seems to be the prevailing culture now. Bill Cosby, to his eternal credit, has been on this issue for 10+ years now, in no uncertain or equivocal terms. His reward for his bravery to speak the truth? A ration of crap from many blacks, saying that he’s “making blacks look bad in front of whites.”

Huh? As tho the evening news weren’t already doing that?

re: What if thousands of whites marched through a DC neighborhood? I don’t know. But I do know what residents say when non-blacks move into their neighborhoods in DC:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/gentrification-covers-black-and-white-middle-class-home-buyers-in-the-district/2011/07/28/gIQATZ7yfI_story.html

Sooner or later, people are going to have to look at this situation and see that it is unique. There aren’t parallels in other racial groups in the US. Something has gone way, way wrong in urban black culture, and they’re actively resisting attempts, both from within and without their communities, to change what’s wrong. That’s also unique.


320 posted on 04/09/2012 5:48:47 PM PDT by NVDave
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