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Nat Gas vs. Electric Vehicles: Which Will Drive U.S. Passenger Car Market?
Rig Zone ^ | April 09, 2012 | Karen Boman|

Posted on 04/09/2012 7:42:32 AM PDT by thackney

T. Boone Pickens and other energy industry executives have been promoting the increased use of natural gas in the U.S. as a means of developing a market for the abundant U.S. shale gas supply now available, as well as bolstering the U.S. economy and weaning the nation of its dependence on foreign oil.

While initial efforts have been focused on the heavy-duty vehicle market, increasing the number of light-duty passenger cars that run on compressed natural gas (CNG) is viewed as the next step towards achieving these goals.

In early March, Chesapeake Energy and GE unveiled plans to jointly develop infrastructure to promote the use of natural gas as a transportation fuel, including CNG and liquefied natural gas transportation and gas home-fueling solutions.

An estimated 112,000 natural gas vehicles are on U.S. roads today and over 13 million are being driven worldwide, according to the Natural Gas Vehicles for America (NGVA) trade association website. However, an estimated half a million light-duty, CNG powered passenger vehicles could be on U.S. roads by 2020, said NGVA President Richard Kolodziej.

Kolodziej commented that he is not surprised that the more aggressive natural gas producers are promoting use of natural gas in power generation and transportation.

"The petrochemical industry wants gas to stay below $2/Mcf forever, not realizing the correlation between higher prices and more supply," said Kolodziej, adding that little profit can be made in the residential and commercial market, and the industrial market is tied to the economy.

Gas-Powered Vehicles With gasoline prices approaching $4/gallon and the U.S. government's ongoing efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles driving on U.S. roads, the question of whether the use of alternative fuel vehicles will grow seems a logical one. Whether CNG vehicles will capture a significant market share of the U.S. passenger vehicle market, and how these vehicles will compete against electric vehicles (EVs), remains to be seen.

Natural gas could come from behind and overtake market share from EVs if original equipment manufacturers and the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) promote CNG vehicles and if the public can have more access to natural gas filling stations, said Larry Rinek, senior technology consultant with Frost & Sullivan's technical insights division.

Advocates of CNG vehicles point to the lower exhaust emissions from CNG versus gasoline-powered cars. However, CNG vehicles are not a panacea that will save everybody from dependence on foreign fuels, said Rinek.

Drawbacks to CNG vehicles include the availability of fueling stations. The natural gas filling stations that are available in the U.S. tend to be concentrated in areas where commercial fleets of CNG vehicles exist; buses and trucks are the biggest market for CNG today.

Additionally, CNG cars also have less power than gasoline-fueled cars, said Rinek, who road tested a 2012 Honda Civic CNG vehicle earlier this year and was underwhelmed by its performance. After-market enhancements to boost power on CNG cars are costly, and a fact with which most drivers will have to learn to live.

"These are not performance vehicles," commented Rinek. "These cars are for Joe and Jane Consumer who are going to the market and not going very fast."

CNG tanks eat up most of the trunk space in cars, creating a nuisance for drivers, Rinek noted.

Availability of cars is another issue. At present, the Honda Civic natural gas vehicle is the only light-duty natural gas vehicle available from an original U.S. equipment manufacturer. The available of CNG cars does appear to be changing.

In early March, Chrysler said it would begin selling a Ram 2500 Heavy Duty pickup that runs on CNG, the Associated Press reported. General Motors will also begin selling versions of its Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra 25500 HD that run on natural gas.

Last fall, Honda announced it would rapidly ramp up output of the 2012 Honda Civic Natural Gas car to meet anticipated demand for the vehicle.

Natural gas cars cost more than gasoline or diesel powered cars, according to NGVA, but a number of federal and state tax credits are available for the purchase of a CNG vehicle.

Kolodziej believes that consumer interest in purchasing a CNG vehicle or converting an existing vehicle for CNG use will grow as the availability of natural gas fueling stations do. The cost of these cars mean that people who purchase them will most-likely already own a vehicle or two, he added.

"The focus of developing a market for natural gas powered cars has not been to intentionally ignore the consumer market, but to focus initially on return to home vehicles, such as buses or trucks that move across the country," Kolodziej commented, saying that he believes that electric cars will be a niche application and that hydrogen-fueled vehicles are "great in theory" but face the challenge of high manufacturing costs.

Electric-Powered Vehicles Cars with electric-powered motors have been around for over a century, but the internal combustion engine and mass production of gasoline-fueled vehicles put electric-powered cars on the backburner. Currently, EVs are the darlings of environmental activities--with federal and state tax incentives, a number of electric cars available for purchase and the number of charging stations growing through public and private investment, Rinek commented.

However, the limited driving range of electric powered cars – with drivers lucky to get 100 miles between stops at charging stations -- has been a deterrent to their widespread adoption in the U.S. market. As a result, EVs ended up being relegated to a second or third urban vehicle used for short trips, Rinek commented.

The limited range of electric vehicles and the lengthy time required to recharge an electric car's batteries are two big Achilles heels for EV vehicles, said Michael Gorton, an engineer, physicist, lawyer and power systems engineer who writes and speaks on topics related to energy, alternative vehicles and solar power finance.

"If you're driving from Houston to Dallas and have to stop for eight hours to recharge you're car, it's not so fun [to drive an electric vehicle]." Using solar cells to recharge an EV also is not the way to go right now, with further advances in solar technology needed before solar cells become a more feasible option for EVs.

To avoid high costs, EV drivers must be conscious of where they can charge their cars and what time of day they can do so. Otherwise, they may find themselves stranded without an electric outlet and end up being "charged through the nose" by utilities to recharge their vehicles.

"Utilities have mixed feelings about EVs," said Rinek. "They are promoting the use of and operate large EV fleets, but they would prefer drivers of EVs only charge at night when surplus capacity is available," as the charging draws significant power grid.

The cost of EV vehicles compared to gasoline-fueled vehicles is a drawback to purchasing an EV, mostly due to the lithium ion battery packs within the cars. To compensate for the weight of the battery, the EVs currently being manufactured are mostly smaller cars.

"If the cost, weight and issue of charging time can be addressed, the cost of EVs will be brought down dramatically," said Gorton.

There's a good chance of a breakthrough in battery technology that will allow for a wide use of EVs, but Gorton said he doesn't see significant breakthroughs in CNG motors on the horizon.

First U.S. Coast to Coast EV Fueling Station Planned Bruce Brimacombe, founder and CEO of Arizona-based GoE3, an economic change engine involved in deploying the first coast-to-coast EV infrastructure project in the U.S., noted that CNG can play a role in the EV market as a fueling source for recharging EV batteries outside the main power grid.

GoE3 on April 21 will launch the new infrastructure project at Biosphere 2 in Tucscon, Ariz. These charging stations will be Level Two, 70 Amp or higher to support all modern EVs and make interstate travel for EVs and plug-in EVs.

Over the next three years, charging stations will be installed along the major interstate highways 1-40, 1-10, 1-20 and 1-70, with stations located every 50 to 75 miles. This infrastructure system, which will be constructed through private funding, will allow drivers to travel in EVs from New York to Los Angeles.

The stations will feature fast chargers that can recharge an EV battery anywhere between 15 and 45 minutes. "We're trying to support all the [EV] cars to the best of their ability," said Brimacombe. "We're not trying to take a side in the fight."

The system is being constructed in anticipation of the number of EVs that manufacturers will be bringing on the U.S. market, Brimacombe noted, citing a 2010 study by Baum and Associates that an estimated 32 models of EVs are expected to be available by 2015, with over 2 million EVs expected to be on U.S. roads in that year.

Both CNG and electric powered vehicles will be equally compatible in the U.S. auto market in the next 20 to 30 years, said Keith Woods, director of the board for the Salt River Project, which services 960,000 utility customers in Phoenix, Ariz.

"Much like the utility industry, it's best to have a diverse portfolio of fuels to have some price certainty and security, like having a mutual fund instead of buying a stock," Woods commented.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: efv; energy; naturalgas
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To: thackney

None of the above. Electric cars have no range, and I ain’t sticking flammable gas under pressure in my car.


51 posted on 04/09/2012 8:52:00 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

So.... 2 cars, at most, can be tied up to a recharging station, in a BANK parking lot, for up to 8 hours.

I clearly see the efficiency and convenience. Well... at least for bank employees who own an electric car.


52 posted on 04/09/2012 8:52:32 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Squawk 8888

Tap from the after meter line into a compressor. No meter by-pass. It was explained as if you were adding another stove, furnace or water heater.


53 posted on 04/09/2012 8:53:28 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: Squawk 8888
First I heard of that. Propane tank exchanges are ubiquitous around here because outdoor barbecuing is so popular. I know of at least eight places within a five mile radius, four of those at gas stations. You can either buy an entirely new propane tank, or pay a lot less to get a full one by turning in your empty.

How did the Canadians collect road taxes on such propane sales?

54 posted on 04/09/2012 8:54:23 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: WinMod70
You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to recognize the rocket potential of sitting on a tank that’s pressurized to over 3,000 PSI.

Yet over a hundred thousand vehicles on the road, and decades of proven use won't convince some people. These are not built with thin-wall weak tanks.

55 posted on 04/09/2012 8:54:50 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: WinMod70

“An estimated 112,000 natural gas vehicles are on U.S. roads today and over 13 million are being driven worldwide”

Which is why we have global warming. It’s not the CO2, it’s the LNG cars blowing up.


56 posted on 04/09/2012 8:54:59 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: wbill
I'd like to see how Tesla gets 250 miles worth of electricity down to a battery in 30 minutes.

You won't, they don't.

Their fast charger is 4 hours.

57 posted on 04/09/2012 8:57:12 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Vigilanteman

I live in a NG producing area. Marker odor is all over as we have vast underground storage fields also, but whatever...you’re right. I’m wrong. Have a nice day.


58 posted on 04/09/2012 8:59:13 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: Roccus

I think the issue in question was that the gov’t would resist a switch over to a system which they couldn’t tax separately like they do with gasoline currently.

If you’re tapping off you house, even after the house meter, they would probably require a separate “car meter” in order to tax you for the gasoline tax equivalent (to maintain the roads).


59 posted on 04/09/2012 8:59:43 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

Per mile road tax woulkd be my bet.

Anyway, FR is intollerably slow and I’ve got chores.


60 posted on 04/09/2012 9:02:30 AM PDT by Roccus
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To: A CA Guy
Natural gas is an interesting option, but of course what happens if a car rolls over in an accident is the big worry.

Well... you've seen gasoline spill out of a car tank, and your mower refill gas can.

Have you seen LNG/NG 'spilling' out of a pressurized tank? Even if you roll it down a long hill?

Doesn't gasoline have a higher energy density than LNG/NG ?

Is a car gasoline tank more susceptible to explosion when it is full, or when almost empty?

61 posted on 04/09/2012 9:04:06 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: thackney

How about GTL as an alternative. I have been doing some research on this and found that besides diesel it can be converted to gasoline. The question is at what cost. At least the BTU cost of natural gas to oil is currently about 10 %. The process is old technolgy, but some are working on improving it.

http://www.chevron.com/deliveringenergy/gastoliquids/


62 posted on 04/09/2012 9:16:52 AM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: WinMod70

You also don’t need to be a rocket scientist to know that the energy stored in a flimsy 30 gallon gas tank is enough to drive a 3,000 pound vehicle made of steel for several hundred miles at speeds of over 100 km per hour.

Life is scary...

(My point is lets cool it on the sensationalism. Let’s trust that the excellent engineers at Westport Innovations, Honda and Ford build the excellent products they are capable of building.)


63 posted on 04/09/2012 9:20:06 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Okieshooter

Shell has a couple of facilities doing this, in Qatar and Malaysia on large scale commercial operations. It just is not economic (yet) in the US.

http://www.shell.com/home/content/aboutshell/our_strategy/major_projects_2/pearl/overview/


64 posted on 04/09/2012 9:21:10 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: wbill

I don’t think there is enough lithium mines to produce enough lithium metal for the rechargeable batteries. Minor oversight in high tech concepts, it is called industrial revolution logistics.


65 posted on 04/09/2012 9:24:49 AM PDT by Fee
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To: thackney

Also this company is working on doing GTL on a small scale to move stranded gas for fields that have no pipeline access.

http://www.synfuels.com/


66 posted on 04/09/2012 9:44:41 AM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: thackney

None of the Above because 100 million people will dispatch Obama to an early retirement before they’ll be forced to trade in their cars.


67 posted on 04/09/2012 9:47:52 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: A CA Guy
Back in the 60's and 70's many farmers in West Texas converted their pickups to run on propane. The propane tank was bolted to the bed right behind the cab. Power was about the same, but mileage was worse with propane that with gasoline. Also, because the engines were designed to run on gasoline, you had to run some gasoline just to keep the seals from going bad.

There were a lot of wrecks, but I do not recall any where the open exposed propane tank exploded.

68 posted on 04/09/2012 9:48:25 AM PDT by nuke rocketeer (File CONGRESS.SYS corrupted: Re-boot Washington D.C (Y/N)?)
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To: Vigilanteman

What do you propose to do about the folks with free natural gas that buy a surplus compressor such as a dive shop unit and convert their own vehicles. A farmer up the road did just that.


69 posted on 04/09/2012 9:52:55 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
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To: thackney
Drawbacks to CNG vehicles include the availability of fueling stations. The natural gas filling stations that are available in the U.S. tend to be concentrated in areas where commercial fleets of CNG vehicles exist; buses and trucks are the biggest market for CNG today.

That tells me that the natural market for natgas vehicles is commercial fleets in urban areas.

70 posted on 04/09/2012 9:56:49 AM PDT by marron
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To: WinMod70

Propane powered vehicles have been around for years especially for fleets. How often have you heard of one of them blowing up? As long as you don’t break one of the valves on your oxy tanks, they’re safe.


71 posted on 04/09/2012 9:57:21 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
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To: KarlInOhio

If the engine is designed, built and tuned from the ground up for natural gas, they can be pretty good. Everything I’ve seen is a converted gasoline engine.


72 posted on 04/09/2012 9:58:57 AM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: marron

That is where the market has seen the most growth.

But those will eventually create a bigger fuel delivery market for the rest of us.


73 posted on 04/09/2012 9:59:56 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Vigilanteman

The propane pumps for automotive refuelling are different from the portable tank fillers. AFAIK the taxes are the same for either use, but if not I’m sure there’s an audit trail built into the pumps.


74 posted on 04/09/2012 10:07:41 AM PDT by Squawk 8888 (Tories in- now the REAL work begins!)
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To: MrB; thackney

True but the volumetric energy storage density of CNG is about 4 times that of a lithium battery, and 9 times that of NiMH. As I commented to Thackney, electron wells are in short supply.

You can charge a CNG cylinder, store it for a year and it will still have the same charge. You can vent it completely, store it virtually forever, and it will still be just as usable. Low operating temperatures will not degrade range with CNG anywhere near near as badly as it will using batteries.


75 posted on 04/09/2012 10:08:55 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: UCANSEE2; A CA Guy

Natual gas is also lighter than air so any leaks will dissipate rapidly.


76 posted on 04/09/2012 10:10:33 AM PDT by Squawk 8888 (Tories in- now the REAL work begins!)
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To: WinMod70

I can remember years back with a number of propane fueled pickups and cars were out and about. Never once heard of any spectacular crashes.

CNG tanks are costly because they are designed crash proof and although may vent its unlikely to explode.


77 posted on 04/09/2012 10:11:02 AM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: marron

Precisely. The biggest market for propane here is taxis.


78 posted on 04/09/2012 10:14:03 AM PDT by Squawk 8888 (Tories in- now the REAL work begins!)
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To: thackney

Until battery technology catches up with the need for a reasonable range, hybrids will be a good bet. They can be feuled by hydrogen, NG or gasoline.

When power plants go to all nuke and the battery charge is extended to the +/- 300 mile range, then the straight electrics will be best environmentally.

Yes, I believe in environmental responsibility. No, I don’t believe that government should mandate it. Clean coal technology will be good enough to hold us over to the real nuke age.


79 posted on 04/09/2012 10:17:35 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Jack of all Trades
The only way electric vehicles will make economic sense is if we relocate the entire U.S. population to large cities serviced by combined heat and power generating plants. The catch 22 is that if everyone lives in giant cities, who would need cars?

That Catch 22 is U.N. Agenda 21. Force us* all into cities where we can be more easily controlled.

*The "elite" would have their country daschas, of course.

80 posted on 04/09/2012 10:34:02 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: WinMod70
Why go through all the expense of converting all our vehicles when we could simply put some of these at the well-head or storage areas.
81 posted on 04/09/2012 10:42:15 AM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: meatloaf

Not my problem, but I’m sure the tax nazis will have an answer in due course. Your farmer up the road is getting away with it right now only because it isn’t drawing their attention. Once more people start doing it, it will.


82 posted on 04/09/2012 10:51:18 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Fee
I've read some interesting articles about improving the watt density of batteries using carbon foam. I think that in theory the logic is sound. No idea about the chemistry behind it, though.

Still and all, the same problems remain - how to MAKE the electricity.... not enough is manufactured, currently, to support even a small fraction of cars on the road..... and how to safely and rapidly GET the electricity to the batteries in the cars.

83 posted on 04/09/2012 10:53:15 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Jack of all Trades

As I said upthread - CNG works, electric cars do not,

so be assured the left will push electric cars over CNG.


84 posted on 04/09/2012 11:06:08 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: WinMod70

Study up.
CNG is safe.
This is a very weak article.
Technically CNG is a very viable solution. Only things holding back are crazy politicians - can’t tell how they will regulate.

Use all existing technology. On existing cars.


85 posted on 04/09/2012 11:07:15 AM PDT by Eldon Tyrell
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To: Vigilanteman

Maybe in the states with tax Nazis. In a lot of rural areas that won’t happen. They’ve never gone after the folks running drip gas.


86 posted on 04/09/2012 11:08:04 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
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To: MrB

yes, yes they will.


87 posted on 04/09/2012 11:27:34 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: meatloaf

We still have moonshiners in our backwoods here in SW Pennsylvania for exactly the same reason: the potential revenue from collecting the tax just isn’t worth the risk of getting shot at attempting to enforce it.


88 posted on 04/09/2012 11:47:50 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: meatloaf

There is quite a difference (x10) in the tank pressure between propane and CNG. To each his own, I have seen enough pictures of ruptured pressure vessels, CNG included, to know I don’t want to be around when Bubba is topping one of.


89 posted on 04/09/2012 11:52:26 AM PDT by WinMod70
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To: Clint N. Suhks

“Check this out. I live in the People’s Republik of Bethesda Merryland and this popped up in the parking lot of my bank. This recharging station is FREE! Who built it I don’t know but I’m sure my tax dollars did.”

More likely your interest rate paid for it. By the way, each of those panels puts out, at most, 1500 Watts. You’re going to have spend a long time in that bank (maybe 8 hours per day, 3 days in a row) to get a charge from those panels.

Obviously it’s a scam, and the power for the charging station is coming from Con Ed. The panels may push in a bit of juice, but not even close to what’s needed.


90 posted on 04/09/2012 5:44:17 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Jack of all Trades

An EV that will go 300 miles on a charge and the ability to quick charge does not present a range problem. That’s about five hours driving non-stop. Just because a dual tank GMC can go even further on a tank doesn’t mean that 300 miles at a whack isn’t a long way. Yes, temperature / driving patterns can reduce range, and that is why the 100 mile Nissan Leaf causes range anxiety. However, if you start off with 300 miles of range, and even if you give up 100 miles due to extreme could, blasting the heater, you are still left with 200 miles of range, which would be more than adequate for most drives, even without factoring in the ability to fully recharge, while you grab a cup of coffee. The problem is the cost of electric vehicles that can drive 300 miles on a charge, and then another 250 after a 30 minute charge cost at least 70, 000. And Conversion efficiency and regenerative braking aren’t things that are “optimized for” that otherwise reduce range. Conversion efficiency and regeneration capability are simple characteristics of the electric motor and attached inverter / controller. The ability to have a long range battery is not in conflict with either conversion efficiency or regenerative braking.


91 posted on 04/10/2012 3:08:41 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: wbill

Tesla isn’t the only one with fast charge capability. From what I’ve read, a fast charge to 80% isn’t that much worse for a battery than a trickle charge. It’s when you try to get that last 20% of charge with a high current that you start to cause problems. Who would install a fast charger at home. You could charge overnight with 220V at off peak rates, and get electricity that is practically free. There is so much excess capacity on the grid at night that the utilities are providing incentives for people to use it. Save the fast charges for those 500 mile trips, when you want to stop to eat and get right back on the road. I’m not saying they are ready for prime time, with the current price tags, but the range of batteries has been increasing about 7% per year, and the price is steadily coming down. In a few years, they may be practical for all but the most demanding drivers.


92 posted on 04/10/2012 3:15:48 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: taildragger

Electric motors are several times more efficient than gasoline engines in converting energy to forward motion, so you don’t need to carry as much energy. Also, you can afford to carry more battery weight, since you are giving up the heavy gasoline engine and transmission.


93 posted on 04/10/2012 3:19:37 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: NavVet
The Nissan leaf causes range anxiety because the advertised 100 mile range in real world tests turns out to be about 40. The leaf is a roughly $30K car competing for transportation dollars against a hoard of 30+ MPG economy cars that can be had for around $15K. The benefit does not exceed the cost.

A $70K sell price excludes 99% of the buying public.

Conversion efficiency is certainly something that is optimized for, along with durability, servicability, emission, power, range, operating cost, immunity to environment, etc etc etc. There's a long list of competing factors that must be balanced in order to optimize the vehicle. Letting one factor dominate creates a niche vehicle: a supercar, or an econbox, etc. My point was that electric vehicles place a lot of emphasis on power conversion efficiency, to detriment of other real world factors, and they carry a huge cost. The costs do not exceed the benefits, and I doubt they ever will for general purpose transportation for one final reason. When it comes down to it, electricity is not a fuel. It is an energy storage medium.

94 posted on 04/10/2012 6:31:34 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: Jack of all Trades

First of all, I’ve read lots of critical reviews on the Leaf, but none that have pegged the real world, worst case scenario range at 40. The number I’ve seen is around 70, but that still means you are limited to 35 miles out, if you need to have enough charge left to get home. You are essentially making my point which is a long range EV is available, but the price makes it impractical unless you have money to burn. Batteries in the pipeline now may bring that cost down dramatically, but that’s at least 4 years out, maybe more.

Second: What do you mean by “Optimized for Conversion” All electrical motors have a very high efficiency for converting stored energy to torque at the wheels. This isn’t some trade off that is being made, this is just an inherent characteristic of electric motors, so I don’t understand what you mean when you say that an EV has been optimized for conversion at the expense of range. The higher the conversion efficiency, the more range is extended.

Also how is an electric motor “optimized for durability or servicibility” in a manner that reduces range. Electric motors have one moving part and can last almost forever, this again is a characteristic of electric motors and is not some trade-off that you only get at the expense of range. Also on servicibility, one of the pluses of EV’s is that they require minimum service, no oil change, no tune ups, no transmission, no exhaust. These are not characteristics that are somehow gained at the expense of range. So when you say that an EV is optimized in these areas, and imply that this is at the expense of range, exactly what do you mean.

Maybe you mean something else when you say “conversion”.


95 posted on 04/10/2012 8:08:04 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]


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