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Zimmerman family challenges Holder on New Black Panthers
The Daily Caller ^ | April 9, 2012 | Matthew Boyle

Posted on 04/09/2012 5:51:18 PM PDT by mondonico

In a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder on Monday, obtained exclusively by The Daily Caller, a family member of George Zimmerman asked the nation’s top law enforcement officer why he has chosen to not arrest members of the New Black Panther Party for their rhetoric — some of which may fit the federal government’s definition of a hate crime — throughout the Trayvon Martin case.

The family member believes the reason Holder hasn’t made those arrests is because he, like the members of the New Black Panther Party, is black.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blackkk; ericholder; florida; georgezimmerman; hatecrime; holder; holderspeople; kenyanbornmuzzie; newblackpanthers; trayvonmartin; zimmerman

1 posted on 04/09/2012 5:51:35 PM PDT by mondonico
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To: mondonico

Holder, apparently, approves of what they are doing.

He should have acted on it immediately. He did not.


2 posted on 04/09/2012 5:53:25 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: mondonico

He and 0bummer are stone-cold *RACISTS*, who are black.


3 posted on 04/09/2012 5:54:37 PM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
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To: mondonico; Scoutmaster

Seems it’s a first amendment thing...


4 posted on 04/09/2012 5:55:44 PM PDT by GOPJ (Hoodies - because you can't kill a security camera for snitchin' - - freeper tacticalogic)
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To: mondonico

The answer is why everybody needs to own firearms and plenty of ammo.

The operative word here is Army, not Black.


5 posted on 04/09/2012 5:57:14 PM PDT by FlyingEagle
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To: GOPJ

Where was the /s?


6 posted on 04/09/2012 5:57:14 PM PDT by DLfromthedesert
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To: GOPJ

holder can’t arrest husseins sons.


7 posted on 04/09/2012 5:58:09 PM PDT by shelterguy
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To: mondonico

8 posted on 04/09/2012 6:01:40 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: GOPJ

The first amendment doesn’t cover putting a bounty on someone “dead or alive”.


9 posted on 04/09/2012 6:04:37 PM PDT by Hugin ("Most time a man'll tell you his bad intentions if you listen and let yourself hear"--Open Range)
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To: mondonico
>"The family member believes the reason Holder hasn’t made those arrests is because he, like the members of the New Black Panther Party, is black.

Wouldn't surprise me if he is a member.

10 posted on 04/09/2012 6:09:43 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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RACISTS

11 posted on 04/09/2012 6:10:49 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: GOPJ

I certainly have a hard time seeing where offering ten grand for the murder or kidnaping of an individual who has not yet been charged with a crime can be seen to fit behind First Amendment protections. I guess that if I go out asking around for a hit man to kill you, it’s protected speech as long as you are White, Asian or Hispanic?


12 posted on 04/09/2012 6:19:04 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: Liberty Valance

13 posted on 04/09/2012 6:25:37 PM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (This Message Contains Privileged Attorney-Client Communications)
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To: mondonico

Where’s everyone on this? This has been, and is, big news. The family’s fighting back. Rush? Hannity? This is the kind of stuff that average Americans hate and can relate to, yet the voices are muffled.


14 posted on 04/09/2012 6:28:38 PM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (Tawana Brawley, Anita Hill, King Rodney, OJ, Duke Lacrosse, Thugvon Martin. See a pattern?)
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To: JimSEA

Soliciting a murder for pay should be a felony in every state and DC.


15 posted on 04/09/2012 6:36:01 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: mondonico

I have it on good authority that Holder will repudiate and hold accountable the Black Panthers soon...
.
.
.
.
Soon as they turn white and vote Republican, that is.


16 posted on 04/09/2012 6:42:47 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: F15Eagle
He should have acted on it immediately. He did not.

This can lead to a very dangerous and violent escalation. People will fight back on their own if they feel the law is not protecting them.

17 posted on 04/09/2012 6:45:22 PM PDT by Sir_Humphrey (Is it too late to save the country?)
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To: mondonico
The family member believes the reason Holder hasn’t made those arrests is because he, like the members of the New Black Panther Party, is black.

Duh.

18 posted on 04/09/2012 6:46:04 PM PDT by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: mondonico

Eric Holder is probably withholding judgement against the NBP, until George Zimmerman gets killed. Then he may somewhat condemn the NBP for not working quietly through a government black op.


19 posted on 04/09/2012 6:49:34 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: mondonico
The family member believes the reason Holder hasn’t made those arrests is because he, like the members of the New Black Panther Party, is black.

No truer words spoken. This black piece of garbage is just a part of the communists empire of King Obama. And with the cry baby Republicans in the House, King Obama will probably get another term.

20 posted on 04/09/2012 6:50:49 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: Repeal 16-17

Let us say it is because he is black first and foremost, and it is distant second to him that he is an officer of the court sworn to uphold the law and the Constitution, and it matters not at all that he is an American who ought to have loyalty to the country and a sense of fellowship with all its citizens.


21 posted on 04/09/2012 6:52:53 PM PDT by heartwood
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To: F15Eagle

Holder will do bupkus about the black panther bounty. We all know it. He’s worse than worthless...he’s dangerous. That’s why the FL Gov. and Attorney General have to step up and charge these thugs!
Anyone in Florida hear about any actions coming forth?


22 posted on 04/09/2012 7:01:11 PM PDT by Cookies4ever
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To: F15Eagle
Every white, hispanic and non black American should look at this case and see how little respect this regime has for their rights. This regime has a racial pecking order that puts blacks on top, whites on the bottom and other races in between. They spit on the idea of equality.
23 posted on 04/09/2012 7:01:58 PM PDT by peeps36 (America is being destroyed by filthy traitors in the political establishment)
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To: GOPJ
Seems it’s a first amendment thing.

We've been here before, haven't we?

24 posted on 04/09/2012 7:05:08 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: GOPJ

Murder for hire isn’t free speech.


25 posted on 04/09/2012 7:17:41 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (We kneel to no prince but the Prince of Peace)
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To: Hugin; GOPJ
The first amendment doesn’t cover putting a bounty on someone “dead or alive”.

They have a number of ways to argue that the First Amendment does cover it. GOPJ directed that to me because we've discussed this at length. I'm not saying it's right - I'm just saying it does.

First, you can't make a contract for an illegal act, so the Black Panthers can argue that anyone would recognize this as a political statement covered by the First Amendment rather than a true offer to solicit the death or unlawful detainment of George Zimmerman. Stinks, but they can argue that.

Second, just as we're all saying "WTH? They can't be serious. You can't do this." On a similar vein, the Black Panthers can say, 'see? People knew we weren't serious. We were being outrageous to make a ooint." First Amendment.

GOPJ and I have been over many other ways in which a coward could use the First Amendment as a shield in this case - not that's it's right, but because it's there and the First Amendment is a powerful thing that protects even *sses who spew hatred . . . until somebody acts on it.

There's also he issue that there may be no solicitation here because the bounty is so generalized that there is no true target of solicitation.

Up until something happens to Zimmerman, this is like yelling 'fire' in a crowded theatre. The fact is, you can yell fire in a crowded theatre. You're only liable for the consequences if something happens, Just like you're only responsible for inciting a riot if you're successful. You don't get arrested for attempting to incite a riot.

The landscape changes if somebody detains or kills Zimmerman and says they relied on the broadside published by the Black Panthers. At that point, the BP should have some liability for what they published, First Amendment be damned. However, the BP's attorneys will attempt to argue that no reasonable person would believe that the broadside's 'offer' was a true offer. That shouldn't be successful. Just as you take your plaintiff as you find him in the law of torts and negligence, if you're reckless enough to publish what the BP did, then you should be responsible ime unreasonable people respond to it.

Besides, just between you and I and GOPJ, the BP want somebody to act on the broadside.

But they'll hide behind the First Amendment if they can.

26 posted on 04/09/2012 7:19:33 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Mears

BFL


27 posted on 04/09/2012 7:20:47 PM PDT by Mears (Alcohol. Tobacco. Firearms. What's not to like?)
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To: GOPJ

Tomorrow morning, I need to read the federal definition of a ‘hate crime.” I see the element that would raise a crime to a hate crime here - and there’s the issue of whether the broadside constituted solicitation under Florida law given the issues of whether a person should believe the broadside was a true offer, and whether there was an actual target of the broadside’s ‘offer’, and other factors - but without that, you still need to find the crime that’s been elevated to a hate crime.


28 posted on 04/09/2012 7:23:38 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Scoutmaster

Baloney its solicitation for murder and or kidnapping..just because its a poor one doesnt mean its legal..people get arrested all the time for soliciting prostitution illegal gambling etc...now try and put a poster wanted dead or alive with Holder’s pic on it and see what happens...


29 posted on 04/09/2012 7:38:15 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Scoutmaster; Hugin; GOPJ
One of several threads on the topic. How Many Crimes Did the New Black Panthers Commit in Florida? . There are multiple potential state charges. Federal? Well, Holder Charges Kidnapping Solicitation of White Supremacist, Not New Black Panthers , that's charged on occasion too.

And yes, the Panthers can argue they were just joshing, like the poll watchers.

30 posted on 04/09/2012 7:45:37 PM PDT by SJackson (As a black man, you know, Barack could get shot going to the gas station, M Obama)
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To: Scoutmaster
We've been here before, haven't we?

LOL

Yes, glad you came. Thanks. :)

31 posted on 04/09/2012 7:48:41 PM PDT by GOPJ (Hoodies - because you can't kill a security camera for snitchin' - - freeper tacticalogic)
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To: mondonico

We are all Zimmerman.

Long live Zimmerman!


32 posted on 04/09/2012 7:56:38 PM PDT by TheDon (The Democrat Party, the party of the KKK (tm))
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To: Cookies4ever

The Florida authorities are dozing it seems to me.

Terroristic threats are not legal.


33 posted on 04/09/2012 8:01:52 PM PDT by RitaOK (LET 'ER RIP, NEWT.)
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Publicly offering a bounty for the kidnapping and murder of someone goes way beyond First Amendment protection. Those publicly offering the bounty should have at least been interviewed by the authorities. They were not, presumably because Trayvon Martin “looked like” Obama’s fictitious son. An appalling state of affairs.
34 posted on 04/09/2012 10:25:31 PM PDT by Godwin1
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To: SJackson; GOPJ; rolling_stone
The thread you cited refers to laws that 'may' have been violated, or 'potential' claims.

As an attorney, when I see a statute, my first thought is 'how have the courts of that state interpreted the statute?"

When it comes to solicitation, courts will have already decided what elements suggest solicitation and what elements don't. For example - and let's play the parade of horribles - if I were to say I'd pay $100 billion for somebody to kill my best friend with Zabondian 253 Transmogrifier, and announce it on national television - that's not going to be criminal solicitation.

For anybody to offer $100 billion is generally not going to be solicitation. The amount's so high that no reasonable person is going to believe there was an actual offer of payment that could be accepted.

No offer to kills with a Zam-whatever-it-was is going to be a solicitation, because no reasonable person should believe that such a Transmogrifier exists. And of course you have the problem with it being announced in such a public medium, which suggests that I didn't intend it to be an illegal solicitation, but instead, a bombastic exercise of free speech and not a serious statement.

So we know there's line and not all statements offering money to kill are solicitation. Courts help set up guidelines for how and where you draw the line.

If a 'solicitation' is so bombastic that a reasonable person wouldn't believe it - it's likely not a solicitation. Now, the party may still be in trouble if somebody acts in reliance on it, but the party's not in trouble for saying it.

If the BP made this offer in a less general format - if they had targeted it to an individual or to a specific group - it looks more like a solicitation. If they hadn't made it so publicly, it looks more like a solicitation. Is it possible to press charges? Yes. Is it possible to view the broadside as a bombastic exercise of First Amendment Rights and not an actual solicitation of Zimmerman's death? Yes.

What do I personally think? I think the BP wanted Zimmerman dead. But I think they can hide behind the First Amendment as cowards, until they have a closer nexus with the recipient of solicitation, or until somebody acts on the broadside. Just my legal analysis, because it's perfectly clear that not every 'solicitation' is a 'solicitation.'

I'm not interested in arguing. If you would like to have a different opinion, feel free to do so.

35 posted on 04/10/2012 7:14:05 AM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: mondonico

Pretty sad day for our country when members of Congress don’t seem to be bothered by the fact that the DOJ has done nothing to prevent a hate group from placing a bounty to kill an American...


36 posted on 04/10/2012 7:55:19 AM PDT by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: mondonico

“Empty Sanford police car shot up in area where Trayvon Martin was killed”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/10/2740448/empty-sanford-police-car-shot.html

While Holder is on hold!


37 posted on 04/10/2012 7:57:47 AM PDT by Rock N Jones
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